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cold_steel
11-22-2009, 12:36 PM
So, along with SS, I would like someone to advise me as to what I can do for conditiong work for football. My first practice is this weekend, and I've built up ok stamina thru SS and pickup fball and bball games. Now then, its about to be pads and helmet time and I know that the intensity is gunna be much much more than that of a pickup game, so someone suggest or give me some input on what they would do in my shoes! MWF lifts, should I do sprints or any conditioning on lift days or do it on recovery days?

nickp8
11-22-2009, 02:21 PM
If you are starting practice in a few days you are too late. Just practice as hard as you can and that will get you in better shape. You need to make sure you dial down the lifting a little bit to. You don't want to overtrained in season.

Travis Bell
11-23-2009, 07:46 AM
What kind of football are you playing that's starting now? Most seasons are about over unless they are in post season play

cold_steel
11-23-2009, 03:03 PM
It's a winter league and the season doesnt start until Feb 20th. It's about six weeks of play plus playoffs and championship game. Practice starts this weekend and we only practice once a week on the weekends.

Travis Bell
11-24-2009, 09:32 AM
Ah I understand.

Well during the week I'd go through your normal lifting and spend 2 days on conditioning, whether it's after lifting or just a day by itself is up to you

I'd focus on prowler pushes, tire flips and sled drags

cold_steel
11-24-2009, 01:14 PM
Thanks! Going out this afternoon to get me a tire from the local tire shop! Is there a way to tell the wieght of the trie by the height? Also, reps. When doing the tire flipping should I rep it? Or do as many as I can in a set amount of time? Also, any ideas on how to make a ghetto sled? I'm strapped on cash, boooo.

Travis Bell
11-24-2009, 01:19 PM
Due to the various thickness (plys) of tires and some have steel belts, some don't, it's hard to tell how much the weigh based upon height.

What I would do it flip it a couple of times in the lot and see how it feels. Try and find one that you can confidently flip 6 or 8 times for a few sets to help with your conditioning.

As for the ghetto sled, I made one before that was made from an old pickup tire. I just drilled two holes and put a U bolt through it, tied some climbing rope to it and had a sled!

Usually you can fit the plates right on the tire if you want to add weight.

lilgoodrat
11-24-2009, 05:41 PM
Along with weight training, dont forget to train aerobically!! I would mostly train your lactic acid system...meaning sprint for 1 to 2 minutes at a time.

Dont forget about your specificity of training!!!

Travis Bell
11-24-2009, 05:49 PM
Along with weight training, dont forget to train aerobically!! I would mostly train your lactic acid system...meaning sprint for 1 to 2 minutes at a time.

Dont forget about your specificity of training!!!

Train your lactic acid system? And how exactly do you do that?

What is a lactic acid system?

Sprinting for 1 - 2 minutes at a time is completely a waste of time.

Average football player runs 14yds a play. Never will a football player be running for a minute or two at a time. That's silly.

Specificity of training will come at practice, playing....specifically....football!

lilgoodrat
11-24-2009, 06:29 PM
Train your lactic acid system? And how exactly do you do that?

What is a lactic acid system?

Sprinting for 1 - 2 minutes at a time is completely a waste of time.

Average football player runs 14yds a play. Never will a football player be running for a minute or two at a time. That's silly.

Specificity of training will come at practice, playing....specifically....football!

I apologize....you actually want to train your ATP energy system. Below there is a great explanation of exactly what I mean. I am a physical education teacher who has seen coaches train their athletes so wrong! (Im not saying yours is, I just mean in general) You should really just be sprinting and training at fast explosive bursts to really train for football. Maybe not a full minute or 2....yes....

Read below....




In the game of football, the average play lasts about 5 seconds after which you get approximately 25 seconds of rest. The 5 seconds that are in play consist of explosive, powerful, quick, fast movements that lead to a collision at the end of the play. Football players are moving at a very high rate of speed for short durations of time.

Wouldn't it make sense to train the athlete in the manner in which he will be moving on game day? Of course it would. So where does distance running endurance come into play here? It doesn't.

Whenever you set forth in creating a training program, especially a speed program, you must study the sport for which you are preparing. You must understand the energy systems involved. By studying the speed, movement and rest periods, you can effectively design a program that will be conducive to the particular sport.

In the sport of football, one does not need an aerobic base - which is what distance running provides us. A football player taps into the ATP energy system, which gives them about 6 seconds of fuel.


What Is ATP?
Otherwise known as Adenosine TriPhosphate, ATP is critical to the release of energy. ATP is an adenosine-derived nucleotide that supplies large amounts of energy to cells for various biochemical processes, including muscle contraction and sugar metabolism, through its hydrolysis to ADP.



That is the energy system that football players utilize. There is another system in the body that wrestlers and middle-distance runners utilize called the lactic acid system.




And long-distance, cross-country runners tap into yet another system, and that is the aerobic system. Now that we have determined the various energy systems we can design a speed program accordingly.


Energy Systems Recap
1. ATP Energy System: for football players and short-distance sprinters.
2. Lactic Acid System: for wrestlers and middle-distance runners.
3. Aerobic System: for cross-country/long-distance runners.



Yet we still have coaches and trainers that don't fully understand how the body operates.








Muscle Fiber:

In training for football, fast twitch muscle is called upon every second during a play.

So we must program the athlete from a fast twitch perspective, meaning training bursts that are short in duration with rest interval ratios that mimic game situations. We must train fast at all times, whether it's 10, 20 or 40-yard increments.



Athletic success depends to a degree on fast-twitch/slow-twitch muscle fibre composition. What does this have to do with athletes?



We then work on a short recovery time before starting again. But we have football players running long distances unaware of the fact that they are patterning slow response and training slow twitch muscle fiber that is oxidative, and gets energy from the aerobic system.

Over time, they can convert their fast twitch fiber to slow twitch, and lose size and power in the process. If you question this, look at the difference in body types between a football player and a distance runner. Thus, I repeat: football players do not need an aerobic base.

Travis Bell
11-24-2009, 09:29 PM
haha I can see you cut and pasted that from somewhere :)

However, I do agree on the general point that short explosive bursts of power must be developed, hence why I suggested the prowler pushes, tire flips and sled drags. These activities will develop short bursts of explosive power as will squatting.

I'm speaking not from a text book, but this is what I do for a living, so I see this work every day.

Sprints are fine, however you simply cannot sprint all the time. It's A) too abusive on the knees and bones and B)not nearly as productive as the aforementioned movements.

You develop explosive power initially by developing your ability to generate power (ie, getting stronger)

Now I agree, you do need to train your body to use that power, however if when a person stops strength training and soley develops their explosive reactions, they will have lesser results than someone who trains their strength and in conjunction dedicates a part of their training to speed.

So in summary, a football player needs to have their main focus on strength training and secondary focus on explosive reactions (use of said strength)

And you can't train in game conditions all the time. Players would be beat to crap if they did that. You train for one game a week, not 5.

cold_steel
11-25-2009, 09:35 AM
Awesome! I appreciate all the input fellas! Travis, if I have said tire and ghetto sled, how should I approach this? Sets? Time limit and try to beat PR? Thanks for all the help. :ninja:

Travis Bell
11-25-2009, 01:13 PM
For the tire, I'd work on maybe 3-4 sets of 8 flips or so, in rather quick fashion

For the sled, drag it forward, sideways, backwards, elongated steps, regular steps, you get the idea. mix it up. But I'd go more on distance with the sled. Try and pull it 8-10 trips of 40-50 yds. Vary the weight between light and heavy.

cold_steel
12-01-2009, 10:27 AM
What kind of pace should I use on the sled? Am I wanting to just walk it thru or light jog or what? Thanks

Travis Bell
12-01-2009, 12:07 PM
Walking is really effective, although you can do sprints up hills with it.

What I usually have my athletes do is take exaggerated long steps going heel to toe focusing on the hips.

Isaac Wilkins
12-01-2009, 01:37 PM
Right on, Travis. Most of my kids get in shape with the sled and just basic bodyweight stuff. "Conditioning" for football is a couple of week phase assuming that their GPP is up to snuff with the rest of your training (footwork stuff, speed technique work, bodyweight, and just the overall strength training). I've never had an athlete I trained for any real period of time suffer from lack of conditioning when it came to football, but I've had a bunch COME to me out of shape.

The only thing I disagree with you on is the "heel-to-toe" sled stuff. I like a good forward lean when walking with the sled, and driving off the ball of the foot. I am paranoid about them picking up "heel-to-toe" movement patterns so we avoid it at all times.

Bodyguard
12-01-2009, 05:12 PM
For endurance and stamina, after a set of bench or squats, I would do about 30 jumping jacks then, go do another set of bench or squats until I was finished with that particular lift.