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xolix
12-02-2009, 03:40 PM
i am doing westside and my question is : what is more important for a RAW bencher as assistance-work , chestexercise like paused bench for reps , db bench, inclinebench and so on , or tricepwork like close grip floorpress , 3boardpress , close grip chainbench .... at my current raining i do ME-work , chestwork(2 x 6-10 reps) ,heavy tricepswork (3 x 5 reps), lats , facepulls, hammercurls .

speedday : speedbench 8 x 3 , military (531-like progress) , rows (4 x 6-8 reps) , light triceps and barbell curls

i think i am overtrained at my bench , because there is no progress , ( squat and deadlifts are very good )

i think to cut out one pressingmovement on ME-day ... what do you think ??

vincent dizenzo, travis bell and all other bench specialists

Travis Bell
12-02-2009, 04:40 PM
Very good question!

The most general answer would be for raw lifters, pressing movements are best suited for accessory work. That said, often times raw lifters will end up with the same sticking points as geared lifters, so it really depends on where you're stalling in the press and what your current training looks like.

I often will use close grip floor press for my main accessory movement and then follow up with some more particular stuff from there.

Also, your progress will be greatly reflected by A)your choice of ME movements and B) if you're getting the approrpiate amount of volume in your training.

If you're just hitting your max and then shutting it down, you're probably not getting enough volume in.

brdclck
12-02-2009, 05:06 PM
Travis, back when I used to do more max effort work, I was never sure how much more to do after hitting a max set. What guidelines would you recommend? Something similar to Prilepin's table? (I lift raw as well)

NickAus
12-02-2009, 05:15 PM
Just an idea but if you drop the Military Press on Speed Day and do high rep Dumbell Bench instead that could help with overtraining.

Also make sure lats/ upperback training is not just going through the motion, this will get your bench moving too.

Magilla
12-02-2009, 05:43 PM
Just an idea but if you drop the Military Press on Speed Day and do high rep Dumbell Bench instead that could help with overtraining.

Also make sure lats/ upperback training is not just going through the motion, this will get your bench moving too.

Great advice Nick

Travis Bell
12-02-2009, 08:27 PM
Travis, back when I used to do more max effort work, I was never sure how much more to do after hitting a max set. What guidelines would you recommend? Something similar to Prilepin's table? (I lift raw as well)

What's your current best bench?

Reason I ask is if you're getting 6+ sets in by the time you hit your max, then you're probably good.

However lots of guys who are in the 250-300+lb range, tend to hit their maxes rather quickly, especially if they jump a plate each set.

I wouldn't get stuck on a table too much, rather make smaller jumps and then when you hit your max, hit that same weight for another set, and another if you can.

Or you can drop down a little and do some heavy triples. Or, do another ME lift too.


Just an idea but if you drop the Military Press on Speed Day and do high rep Dumbell Bench instead that could help with overtraining.

Also make sure lats/ upperback training is not just going through the motion, this will get your bench moving too.

The military presses aren't really going to overtrain him any more than DB benching allegedly would.

Lots of guys tend to throw military press in on their DE day, I believe Vincent has in the past and a couple years ago Rob Luyando used to as well.

NickAus
12-02-2009, 09:26 PM
I thought 5/3/1 for the military would be a bit more taxing on you than higher rep dumbell bench?

Just an idea, I know for me it would be less taking.

xolix
12-03-2009, 12:19 AM
my max effort movements are : week 1 - 2boardpress (1 rm) , week 2 - chainbench (1 rm) , week 3 - floorpress (1 rm) , week 4 - paused bench (1 rm)...repeat

after my 1 rm i do always a downset for 3-5 reps .

ScottYard
12-03-2009, 10:56 AM
Try moving the Military to your ME day. Your delts are taking a beating by being trainined hard 2 times a week. My buddy had Militarys on his speed day as well and it didnt work out for him. Once he moved the Militarys to his ME day he made progress again.

Guys that do full power dont realize how much your delts take a beating from squatting a pulling heavy and weekly.

robchris
12-03-2009, 06:12 PM
X,
Do you do DE bench w/ bands? I didnt notice it in your post.

Bands are the best thing I ever used for power & speed off the chest.(never used chains a lot) They were my beard & butter when I trained exclusively raw... However, as Travis stated your accessory work should depend on where you stall in the press.

vdizenzo
12-03-2009, 07:31 PM
After ME bench I recommend floor presses or board presses. Then do your heavy lats , facepulls, hammercurls, and then finish with some moderate to light extension work.

xolix
12-04-2009, 12:52 AM
X,
Do you do DE bench w/ bands? I didnt notice it in your post.

Bands are the best thing I ever used for power & speed off the chest.(never used chains a lot) They were my beard & butter when I trained exclusively raw... However, as Travis stated your accessory work should depend on where you stall in the press.

2 weeks monsterminis , 2 weeks chains , 2 weeks straight weight, repeat