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teeroy
12-04-2009, 12:28 PM
It used to be that when I failed on bench I failed at the top when locking out. So I've been doing assistance work for my tris for a while now such as skull crushers, rope pulldowns when I'm at a gym, etc. My bench has gone up quite a bit as a result because if I can get it half way up I can lock it out now.

Now when I fail I fail one or two inches off the chest so it appears that my chest is now the weak point. What can I do as assistance work for my chest?

Darracq
12-04-2009, 01:10 PM
back work,paused bench, back work.

teeroy
12-05-2009, 01:36 PM
OK, thanks. I'll throw in some paused bench work for sure. Never done them before, what do you do a 2 count or something like that?

Looks like I'll have to throw in an extra day of back work, too. I only do one day of back work right now.

Darracq
12-05-2009, 02:49 PM
Not sure how long to pause just a good pause, like if you were competing, you could do like pull ups one day and rows the next time, also. you could bench with heavy band tension this will make you explosive. use about 50 percent band tension, Do this for ME work. Paused dumbell work helps also. of cours dont do it all in one day lol.

jtteg_x
12-05-2009, 03:33 PM
whats your current routine like?

robchris
12-05-2009, 03:47 PM
teeroy,

I would say the top exercises would be paused bench and speed bench w/ bands. In addition to that as Darracq stated lats & leg drive are very important off the chest. Getting the the leg drive, lats and triceps all firing together off the chest takes practice but the more speed you generate off the chest the more momentum you will have thru lock-out... Post a vid if you can. It'll be a lot easier to see if you're losing form in the press right off the chest.
RC

slashkills
12-05-2009, 03:48 PM
DB Bench, 2 board, DE work(DE Bench, plyo push ups, med ball passes), and paused benching have been great for me

vdizenzo
12-05-2009, 07:37 PM
Post a vid.

OGROK
12-05-2009, 07:52 PM
Doesn't paused benching slow you down? I rarely hear of top benchers doin' it.

teeroy
12-05-2009, 11:14 PM
whats your current routine like?

Monday

Box Squat 10x3
OHP 3x5
Bench 3x10
Skull Crushers around the 15 rep range

Wednesday

Deadlift mix it up with 3x3, 3x8, and singles
Jumping pullups
BOR 3x5
Kroc rows 15 rep range
DB Curl

Friday

Work up to a max 2 rep squat
Work up to a max 2 rep bench
OHP 3x10

I need to pick up some bands and chains so I can start mixing those in. And I need to change up my ME work on Friday's. Just haven't done either yet because my numbers have been going up but I feel that my gains are slowing down so I need to start rotating my type of lifts each week.



Post a vid.

OK, I'll take some vids next Friday

teeroy
12-06-2009, 10:50 AM
Just bought some bands from EliteFTS. Looking forward to incorporating these into my routine. Wish I had some band pegs on my rack but I'll make do. I don't have dumbbells heavy enough to hold them down.

I may actually take the rack apart and just slide the bands on to the bottom bar and leave them there. Anyone ever done that - good idea, bad idea?

Jay1
12-06-2009, 02:30 PM
Using more than one dumbbell to hold the bands may work. Putting them around the rack will work, but I'd only do that if they are still on line with the way you lift. Don't do it if the rack is more towards your head like some benches or the bands are going to pull down and towards your head.

For your routine, I'd rather bench first when your fresh and do OHP after that. I'd also add in D-bell bench for awhile and see if that helps.

Jay1
12-06-2009, 02:34 PM
Doesn't paused benching slow you down? I rarely hear of top benchers doin' it.

No, not in my experience it doesn't. I think it can help by taking momentum out of the bar. I also think well trained lifters won't get as much out of it as their strecth reflex lasts over a couple of seconds.

muscle_g
12-06-2009, 07:02 PM
Back work
Incline Bench
Shoulder Presses
these seem to help me out alot(I have found out though even though you are hitting your weakness do not forget to still work your strong point to some degree)

robchris
12-06-2009, 07:37 PM
I may actually take the rack apart and just slide the bands on to the bottom bar and leave them there. Anyone ever done that - good idea, bad idea?[/QUOTE]

Yes... Just link them together & place your collars about 2" from the end of bar w/ a small 2.5lb plate. Then hook the bands against the plate so as to get maximum stretch out of them. Start w/ mini's or monster mini's depending on your strength.

Good luck,
RC

Scooter
12-07-2009, 02:29 PM
I have the same problem. Try WG decline bench. It takes the tris out of the picture so you can focus solely on the chest.

teeroy
12-11-2009, 08:27 PM
Here's a vid of today. Failed on the 2nd rep of 228. Actually got it up about 3-4 inches higher than last week so it's not really a good depiction of where I've been failing lately because I've been failing just an inch or two off the chest. Usually if I can get it up as high as I did today I can lock it out. Probably if I had enough speed to get it up another inch I could have locked it out and I think that is my issue - I don't feel that I have speed or power off my chest.

I hope the angle is OK. Not sure what the best angle it for videos. Open to any and all feedback because I really want to work on my bench form. I bought some bands from EliteFTS so hopefully they will be here any day so I can start incorporating those into my routine.

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Cyrus Ford
12-11-2009, 11:57 PM
Please don't take this the wrong way, but I am speaking from my personal experience in reference to your problem.

Have you ever consider that you may simply have too much weight to workout with right now. If you are doing all the other assistance work to help with your bench press, then the amount of weight may be the issue here.

Just from my experience whenever I get stuck on the bottom it's just too much weight for me to press.

If you were getting stuck about half way then that would be an easy fix.

Here is what I suggest.

1. Lower your weight with something you can rep out fully for several sets, and then work your way back up to 228.

2. Make sure you are hitting your back, tri's, bi's, and shoulders each week.

3. Do dips after each chest workout, especially those when you get stuck. Dips really help your bench especially when you are at a sticking point.

teeroy
12-12-2009, 09:49 AM
Yeah, I've done starting strength and that worked for a while but my cycles stopped working so I am in the process of switching to a WS style routine. So I get my reps in on my DE days and then go for a max on ME days. My bench has gone up 30lbs in the last 2 months doing this. Starting to see a decrease in the pace of my increases so am planning for the next tweak to my routine. After doing some more research on WS and rereading some posts I have saved from vdidenzo and Travis I'm thinking chains and bands as well as mixing up what I do on both ME and DE days so I'm rotating different types of maxes on ME days and different types of resistance on DE days.

I could switch to something completely different like madcow intermediate or 5/3/1 but I really like the WS style because I feel it gives more time for my body to recover and it also works well with my work travel schedule so I can get my bench/squat DE and ME days in at home in my own rack rather than having to try to find a gym with a power rack and mobile bench at some random gym.

I've actually been doing some planning on my updates to my routine this week and have noted below what my current plan is. Starting this week I'm having to switch my DE day to Sunday instead of Monday because I will be on a plane for 8 hours every Monday for the next couple of months.

Sunday DE

Box Squats below parallel 10x3

OHP ME 3x5

Bench DE

Week 1, pause bench, thinking of working up to a set of 3 to failure

Week 2, chains 10x3

Week 3, bands 10x3

Week 4, 3x10

Rotate grip widths in 4 week cycles, pinky on ring, middle on ring, forefinger on ring

Tricep Assistance

Week 1, skull crushers
Week 2, band press downs
Week 3, close grip bench, maybe throw in close grip floor presses sometimes

Wednesday

Deadlift, rotate 3x8, 3x5, singles
Pullups
BOR superset SLDL
Kroc Rows
DB Curls

Friday ME

Squat, work up to 2 rep max

Bench

Week 1, work up to 2 rep max with chains

Week 2, 3x5 max

Week 3, 2 rep max

Not sure if I should rotate grip width on ME days?

OHP DE, 3x10


That's my current thinking on my routine. Definitely open to any and all feedback.

ThomasG
12-12-2009, 10:16 AM
Are you bridging? Could just be the camera angle...

Sean S
12-12-2009, 10:18 AM
Your program is kind of all over the place. You're doing ME OHP and OHP for reps each week in addition to ME BP and DE BP, but your DE BP is going to failure the first week and reps the fourth week. You probably need to simplify this greatly. If it were me I'd do something like this on your respective days:
ME bench movement
heavy triceps (close grips, floor press, boards, etc...)

DE bench (doing a true DE bench, not a heavy triple to failure or a sets of 10)
bench or OHP for reps (3 sets of 10-20)
light triceps (some kind of extension or pushdown)

Sean S
12-12-2009, 10:21 AM
It also looks like your lower body especially is wiggling around too much. Get tight and locked in place and stay there. Also if your butt is off the bench, adjust your set-up and get it on the bench (can't tell for sure from the video angle)

n00bster
12-12-2009, 11:43 AM
I would say you can try some heavy db bench pressing, start from the 100 lbs pair and work to the heaviest you can. Your arch looks as though your ass is off the bench. Have you been working on pauses? How many seconds and what weight did you get to?

Logan
12-12-2009, 11:45 AM
I was weak of my chest for a while but then I started working more on technique. I also found that doing paused benches have help out too.

jtteg_x
12-12-2009, 01:48 PM
I'm only assuming your goal is strength since this is the oly/pl section. I really liked this program when I was training for a raw bench http://www.elitefts.com/documents/600lb_raw_bench.htm

I found out that the most important lifts for a bigger raw bench is speed bench, board press (lock out work) and a heavy tricep lift whether its JM press, tate press, cg bench, whatever.

Brian C
12-12-2009, 04:12 PM
5 3 1

teeroy
12-12-2009, 04:29 PM
My butt is on the bench when I start but it does look like it is coming off the bench during the lift. Hadn't really noticed it until I watched the video so I was wondering if people would bring it up. I'll definitely work on keeping my bottom half more stable.

I'll rethink the going to failure on the paused benching. Haven't been able to find much on paused benching. Quite a bit of info out there on chains and bands but doesn't seem like there is as much on paused so wasn't sure what to do with those.

I got some chains today. Lowe's didn't have 5/8" so I got 3/8". I figure I can always add more chains if I need to.

On a side note, chains are freakin' expensive. It was about $3.40/ft for the 3/8" chain.

n00bster
12-13-2009, 02:35 AM
I haven't got enough posts to link to Dave Tate's Six-Week Bench Press Cure on youtube, but he talks about technique, technique, technique as what hold most people back rather than muscular failure. Reduce the weight till you perfect your technique and then work your way back again.

robchris
12-13-2009, 06:48 PM
Teeroy,
I wouldnt pause w/ the bands/ chains... they're for speed work. Pause w/ straight weight.

As far as lifting your butt during the press, spread your feet out wider and drive from the heels.
Good luck bro,
RC

vdizenzo
12-13-2009, 07:33 PM
Teeroy,
I wouldnt pause w/ the bands/ chains... they're for speed work. Pause w/ straight weight.



Nonsense. I used bands and chains regularly in my ME raw work.

teeroy
12-18-2009, 09:31 PM
Nonsense. I used bands and chains regularly in my ME raw work.

Cool, thanks. I did my ME work today with chains. My current plan is to rotate them in for my ME work every 3 weeks. My bands just came in so maybe I'll rotate those in too. Hadn't thought of using bands for ME work.

I really liked doing my ME work with the chains as I felt it really forced me to keep my lats tighter so I could really explode off my chest.

My current plan for ME is:

Week 1, work up to 2 rep max
Week 2, chains, max singles
Week 3, 3x5

I don't have boards so those aren't worked into my plan yet. I don't have a spotter so I'm a bit concerned on what to do on failure although I suppose I could just move the pins up one or two notches.

I'd also like to incorporate ME floor presses but probably won't be able to without a spotter.

I have a ton to learn on Westside style but so far I'm having a blast with the new routine.

I had a training partner but I had to change my days/times due to my current work travel schedule. :(

n00bster
12-19-2009, 04:34 AM
I don't have boards so those aren't worked into my plan yet. [b]I don't have a spotter so I'm a bit concerned on what to do on failure although I suppose I could just move the pins up one or two notches[b].

I'd also like to incorporate ME floor presses but probably won't be able to without a spotter.

I have a ton to learn on Westside style but so far I'm having a blast with the new routine.

I had a training partner but I had to change my days/times due to my current work travel schedule. :(

The pin looks high enough, you don't need to be worried about a lack of spotter. I would consider doing pin presses around your sticking point. This is a vid of Lee Hayward describing how to bench without a spotter - other than your ass appearing to come off the bench you have the basic setup covered.

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