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View Full Version : Milk-Is too much bad for you?



theman
12-13-2009, 04:22 PM
Hey fellas the other day I heard from someone that too much milk is bad for you. It can cause kidney stones. Ouch!! Is that true? I drink about 3-4 litres a day. Thanks.

ryuage
12-13-2009, 04:25 PM
there are a lot of factors that would cause one to get a kidney stone... I doubt milk is one of them. One of the methods is an over production of the calcium controlling hormone, but it has little to do with how much milk you drink.

Titalis
12-14-2009, 09:28 AM
Im no doctor nor do i have any facts, but....what keeps me off of milk is on simple thought.

Name me any mammal on earth that drinks milk after infancy.

Now im sure in moderation its not going to kill you or cause dementia or anything crazy. Just my 2 pennies, wich I now have to send off to the bank for my mortgage.

tnathletics2b
12-14-2009, 09:56 AM
Im no doctor nor do i have any facts, but....what keeps me off of milk is on simple thought.

Name me any mammal on earth that drinks milk after infancy.

Now im sure in moderation its not going to kill you or cause dementia or anything crazy. Just my 2 pennies, wich I now have to send off to the bank for my mortgage.

I'll name one: Humans.

alin
12-14-2009, 12:00 PM
IMO, milk is perfectly healthy in moderation.
Nowadays, the main argument against drinking milk is the hormones and such that are injected into commercial cows. If you're really worried about this I'd suggest going organic. I wouldn't be too worried about it though.

I'm no doctor. If you're really worried perhaps you should see one?


Im no doctor nor do i have any facts, but....what keeps me off of milk is on simple thought.

Name me any mammal on earth that drinks milk after infancy.

Now im sure in moderation its not going to kill you or cause dementia or anything crazy. Just my 2 pennies, wich I now have to send off to the bank for my mortgage.

We humans evolved to drink milk, among other things. Drinking milk has literally changed our genes. Most animals become sick when drinking milk after weaning. Using this to argue that milk is not good for you is equivalent to saying oxygen is bad for you since the anaerobic microbes from which we evolved did not like oxygen (it killed them).

Titalis
12-14-2009, 12:39 PM
I'll name one: Humans.

Thanks for proving the point I was making.

J.C.
12-14-2009, 12:57 PM
We humans evolved to drink milk, among other things.

I agree with this view. Most people of Northern European stock are from a society that evolved alongside the herds as nomads, and then began keeping semi-domesticated animals. There is nothing wrong with drinking milk for these people.

Lactose intolerance is usually only common in Asian and African populations because dairy was never a part of their diet. If you belong to this group and can't drink milk, then don't drink milk. People sometimes extrapolate this to mean that no human should drink it, which is a massive generalisation.

I don't buy the "humans are not meant to drink milk" argument because some have evolved to do just that. Nomadic living for a hundred thousand years and neolithic domestication for 9000 years has done that for us.

machaf
12-14-2009, 06:01 PM
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/research-review/milk-as-an-effective-post-exercise-rehydration-drink.html


http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/research-review/milk-the-new-sports-drink-a-review-research-review.html

Why do you suppose we all drink milk during infancy...

theman
12-15-2009, 08:50 PM
hormones and such that are injected into commercial cows.

Then I guess it is perfectly safe to drink soymilk ;)

Whuditdew
12-15-2009, 09:39 PM
We have not evolved to be able to drink milk. Evolution takes place on a vast time scale, much larger than the period in which we have become ecologically dependent on agriculture. Hence, why a huge part of the human population is lactose intolerant.

It doesn't help that cows are injected with boatloads of hormones and antibiotics, along with being fed a grain diet. This takes away from the quality of the milk.

Milk in your diet shouldn't have any health effects unless you are intolerant, but it is not the health food it is made out to be.

Whuditdew
12-15-2009, 09:42 PM
Then I guess it is perfectly safe to drink soymilk ;)

I can't tell if you are being sarcastic or not. Soy is terrible, especially for people who lift weights.

ThomasG
12-15-2009, 09:43 PM
Yes, too much of anything is bad. However, a lot of milk can be good in many situations. I drink a gallon of 1% everyday and has worked like magic. I'm still lean after gaining 10lbs.

J.C.
12-16-2009, 07:26 AM
We have not evolved to be able to drink milk. Evolution takes place on a vast time scale, much larger than the period in which we have become ecologically dependent on agriculture. Hence, why a huge part of the human population is lactose intolerant.

It doesn't help that cows are injected with boatloads of hormones and antibiotics, along with being fed a grain diet. This takes away from the quality of the milk.

You completely ignored the point of my post. Those whose genetic heritage is Northern Eurasian have evolved to drink milk. Those guys are fine. And actually, evolution (depending on how significant you want the changes to be) has been shown to occur over much smaller periods of time than you'd think. Another example right off the bat is that most Asians are unable to metabolize alcohol as effectively as Europeans. In Europe, people mostly got clean drinking water by making weak beer and in Asia people mostly got clean drinking water by boiling it to make tea. Alcohol was always a major source of sterilized water in Europe and became even more important in the middle ages with the growth of large towns. That's just a few thousand years and it still caused a proven genetic change.

Bottom line - don't take an example of how one thing affects one person and apply it to everybody else. Its a major sampling error. I see this kind of dogma all the time in nutrition circles and it ignores all variation in individuals.

Oh and btw, America is about the only 1st world country that still injects cows with rBGH (recombinant bovine growth hormone). It's banned in Europe, Canada and Australia. Whether that means its safe or not I don't know. The fact that most of the world don't use it means there may be some risk, but the fact that America still allows it suggests it can't be a major issue. Well, to humans anyway, there's still an ethical issue of doing it to the cows.

Whuditdew
12-16-2009, 12:23 PM
You completely ignored the point of my post. Those whose genetic heritage is Northern Eurasian have evolved to drink milk. Those guys are fine. And actually, evolution (depending on how significant you want the changes to be) has been shown to occur over much smaller periods of time than you'd think. Another example right off the bat is that most Asians are unable to metabolize alcohol as effectively as Europeans. In Europe, people mostly got clean drinking water by making weak beer and in Asia people mostly got clean drinking water by boiling it to make tea. Alcohol was always a major source of sterilized water in Europe and became even more important in the middle ages with the growth of large towns. That's just a few thousand years and it still caused a proven genetic change.

Bottom line - don't take an example of how one thing affects one person and apply it to everybody else. Its a major sampling error. I see this kind of dogma all the time in nutrition circles and it ignores all variation in individuals.

Oh and btw, America is about the only 1st world country that still injects cows with rBGH (recombinant bovine growth hormone). It's banned in Europe, Canada and Australia. Whether that means its safe or not I don't know. The fact that most of the world don't use it means there may be some risk, but the fact that America still allows it suggests it can't be a major issue. Well, to humans anyway, there's still an ethical issue of doing it to the cows.

Believe what you want to believe, many cultures live lives free of chronic disease without any milk after infancy.

How can you justify something being okay by saying America allows it. You do realize that America is the country that subsidizes corn and allow HFCS into almost every product in the grocery store. Growth hormones are not something you want to be present in your food, neither are antibiotics. Not to mention the balance of omega 6 far outweighs omega 3 due to the corn diet fed to the animals. This causes inflammation and a multitude of health problems.

If so many have "evolved" to digest milk, why is intolerance so rampant?

tom183
12-16-2009, 04:11 PM
Believe what you want to believe, many cultures live lives free of chronic disease without any milk after infancy.

The same, however, can be said of tribes where milk is a large part of their diet. The maasai for example.

J.C.
12-16-2009, 06:27 PM
Firstly - I live in the UK, so my milk is hormone-free. :)

Secondly - *sigh*. I'm not going to beat a dead horse to convince one person on the internet, but I'm not sure what you're getting at with the chronic diseases, and intolerance is definitely not rampant. At least not in Northern Eurasian peeps. I have to reiterate that point. I know maybe one or two people in my friend-group who are lactose intolerant and they suffer other intolerances as well, so its not just a milk issue. All I'm saying is that if you are lactose intolerant then don't drink milk. But don't take that fact and go around telling everybody they shouldn't drink it. It doesn't work that way.

You kind of answered your own question; the majority of the people who are lactose intolerant are exactly the ones whose people haven't evolved while drinking milk. The two data sets perfectly correspond.

Here's a nifty map courtesy of Wikipedia showing lactose intolerance at less than 1% in central Europe and less than 10% throughout most of the North:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9a/LacIntol-World2.png

p.s.
I still think the alcohol thing is pretty cool. I remember hearing the tea/beer argument back in school biology class. Apparently a large number of East Asians lack the genetically coded enzyme that breaks down alcohol quickly. The alcohol dehydrogenase enzymes (thank you internet) are genetically controlled. Europeans have been making beer for a long time but probably not as long as they've been drinking milk. It's amazing to me that genetic adaptations can take place so quickly. Remarkably quick changes have been noticed in animals too but a genetic adaptation to drinking alcohol or drinking another species' milk is just awesome. I'm impressed with nature and evolution right now. Go us.

chevyguy3
12-19-2009, 04:22 PM
Name me any mammal on earth that drinks milk after infancy.


Name another mammal on earth that has a space shuttle and 200mph cars

bulldogs702
12-19-2009, 04:35 PM
With out a doubt what worries me about milk is since the cows are pregnant the whole time there is much more estrogen in the milk than there use to be. According to an article I just read most is stored in the fat so skim milk would have much less than whole milk.

JK1
12-19-2009, 05:20 PM
Name another mammal on earth that has a space shuttle and 200mph cars

LOL. The name another mammal question is a bull**** question I've seen many people throwup trying to prove a point. There is a lot of debate with this question and its led me to believe that no one really knows the answer. A better question would be to name a mammal that "FARMS" other animals--ie raises them from birth to death to utilize a product of that animal for their own use. There are other mammals that use tools, mammals that hunt, mammals that herd to a point, but no other mammal "farms".

Heres a list of animals I've seen suckle into adulthood---I'm not talking about just tasting, I'm talking about sucking on a teat and consuming the milk being produced. They just don't pasturize it and put it into bottles to sell at the grocery store.


goats--its not uncommon for female goats of various breeds and species to suckle each other and for some dairy goats to suck on their own teats. This appears irrelevant to if they've recently been milked or not. They actively consume the milk.

Cattle-- i've had to remove the nipple from a cow because of another cow sucking on her udder and that cow getting mastitis

Nonhuman primates: chimpanzees, bonobo, orangutangs, and siamangs. This includes attempts at suckling their own teats and each others. I've seen an adult male chimp latch onto a females teat like an infant on a regular basis from one of females, then breed her. I might even have pictures somewhere of that one, I'd have to check.

Deer-- asian deer species (Sika) where the does.

I've also seen african elephants pinch and pull at each others nipples-- ie a bull grabs a cow by the teat and apparently pinches it and then puts his trunk in his mouth.


There are probably others. These are just the ones I've seen personally working with my patients (I'm a veterinarian) or animals I've taken care of in the past (growing up on the farm/working in animal care).

JK1
12-19-2009, 05:31 PM
there are a lot of factors that would cause one to get a kidney stone... I doubt milk is one of them. One of the methods is an over production of the calcium controlling hormone, but it has little to do with how much milk you drink.

There is a thought that calcium oxalate stones will come from an excessive intake of calcium in the diet. The flaw with that is that thought is that calcium is pretty much selectively absorbed from the intestine, so if the body has enough and you are taking it orally, you shouldn't develop an excess internally, you just won't absorb as much

There is also an inverse relationship with the amount of calcium absorbed dependant to the amount of calcium taken in. For example, taking in 1000 mg of calcium at one time will result in an overall reduced net absorption of calcium opposed to taking in 500 mg at two different doses. Some people will argue that this is where the calcium oxalate stones develop becuase a person drinking milk takes in smaller doses of calcium throughout the day with each glass of milk. The thing that isn't considered with that is that many people on a modern diet are deficient in calcium.

JK1
12-19-2009, 05:34 PM
The same, however, can be said of tribes where milk is a large part of their diet. The maasai for example.

I grew up on unpasturized cows milk.... did you know that there is more bacteria per ml in unpasturized cows milk than in a ml of cow ****? Thats gross and cool at the same time.....


Anyway, I've drunk as much as a gallon of milk a day for years although now days I limit it to about half a gallon a day due to the calories. Milk has and will continue to be the basis of the protein shakes I drink every day. Why? Because I like the taste of milk, I'm not lactose intolerant, and I think milk is a great food for providing the body with the fuel it needs to get stronger.

Cmanuel
12-19-2009, 08:12 PM
Growth hormones are not something you want to be present in your food, neither are antibiotics.

Get your facts right. These do not show up at significant levels in your food. There is this huge fear that these compounds are extremely dangerous to humans. And they may be at higher levels (and certainly some sort of unquantifiable risk at lower levels since we cannot perform human testing, we use rats and mice instead), but we currently use them at extremely low levels to minimize the risk.

You should be proud that you consume the safest food in the world.

Cmanuel
12-19-2009, 08:15 PM
I grew up on unpasturized cows milk.... did you know that there is more bacteria per ml in unpasturized cows milk than in a ml of cow ****? Thats gross and cool at the same time.....


Anyway, I've drunk as much as a gallon of milk a day for years although now days I limit it to about half a gallon a day due to the calories. Milk has and will continue to be the basis of the protein shakes I drink every day. Why? Because I like the taste of milk, I'm not lactose intolerant, and I think milk is a great food for providing the body with the fuel it needs to get stronger.

Haha your immune system must be wicked crazy strong. There's a reason why its unlawful to sell unpasteurized cows milk nearly everywhere, it can be pretty dangerous to certain populations.

And i hear you on the cow **** thing. I'm literally playing with my enriched fecal samples right now... looking for yummy E coli, Salmonella,etc.

I <3 food microbiology

aormz
12-20-2009, 03:02 AM
I go thru about 2 gallons of milk per week. Vitamin D Organic, Buy it at Meijer for about $6 a gallon, tastes delicious. Cheaper quality absorbable protein, I usually toss a RTD muscle milk right in and have about a 40gs of protein chocolate milk twice a day. The organic Milk contains 3.5x the amount of CLAs (conjugated linolic acid). About 500mg per serving, where as 140mg per serving. Many people wont drink Vitamin D b/c of the fat content but they do not realize the benefits of a good amount of CLA per day.

jtrink
12-22-2009, 06:44 PM
not to re-hash an old topic but, i don't drink as much milk as I should because it messes with my sinuses. too much dairy and my sinuses get all weird which causes my teeth to feel funny. sucks!

J.C.
12-23-2009, 11:37 AM
^^^ I drastically cut down on my milk whenever I have a cold. Some people are unaffected but dairy does increase my mucus production, especially if my immune system is a bit lower than usual. Some singers avoid dairy because of that reason; they will have a slightly clearer voice because they will have a clearer, drier throat and sinuses.

Mercuryblade
12-23-2009, 11:51 AM
^^^ I drastically cut down on my milk whenever I have a cold. Some people are unaffected but dairy does increase my mucus production, especially if my immune system is a bit lower than usual. Some singers avoid dairy because of that reason; they will have a slightly clearer voice because they will have a clearer, drier throat and sinuses.

I've always felt that way too, but blinded studies say that mucus production is not increased by consuming milk.
http://www.abc.net.au/health/talkinghealth/factbuster/stories/2007/11/28/2102703.htm

kretschy
12-23-2009, 03:45 PM
Then I guess it is perfectly safe to drink soymilk ;)
Soy milk lowers your testosterone levels dramatically.

Mercuryblade
12-23-2009, 06:14 PM
Soy milk lowers your testosterone levels dramatically.

Soy's full effects on testosterone levels are highly debated. All the studies I have read that have suggested soy has any levels on testosterone production are at a really high dietary intake.

n76p
12-24-2009, 09:54 AM
I read an article once on a magazine that documented a man's transformation (read: man boobs) from drinking too much soy milk.

On another topic, I like drinking a liter of skim milk at night before bed (for the whey and cassein) but more often than not, I wake up with a diarrhea in the morning. I feel its a necessary sacrifice though lol. Anyone else with a similar experience?

4g64fiero
12-24-2009, 10:14 AM
When I first started drinking a gallon of milk a day, I found that I would have horrible diarrhea(SP?).

Anyways, it appears to be the milk at first was the culprit but I was also eating alot of bull**** fast food and such.

Once I got a clean diet in order a gallon of milk never bothered me other than some gas.

To sum things up, I had to eat clean to accomadate the milk.

Rogue
01-05-2010, 02:52 PM
Milk is the drink of champions... Full of good nutrition and tastes great... Tastes even better with some vanilla or strawberry whey protein powder. I love the stuff... I've been drinking milk since the day I was born and I'll never quit...

AKMass
01-05-2010, 03:04 PM
Thanks for proving the point I was making.

What was your point exactly? I'm curious how anyone has managed to use this as an argument against drinking milk. Humans are superior to all other animals (let alone mammals) in almost every respect.

IronDiggy
01-05-2010, 03:19 PM
Good or bad I like milk... It's tasty so I will keep drinking it probably... How ever I'd say 3-4 liters is a bit much. Too much could cause calcium deposits called Calcifications around your body.

Ryumexicano
01-05-2010, 04:07 PM
Too much dairy is not good for your health. Hormones injected into cows doesn't show in significant amounts to damage you. In high quantities however, whole milk is something you shouldn't drink too much, meaning like drinking gallons per week, or a gallon a day kinda of thing, IF YOU DON'T NEED IT. Go outside and get your vitamin D. Whole milk has a lot of fat, cholesterol, and other things you don't want in your body if you are going over the top with that.

Again, too much of something is bad, as always! Even sex :P What does it have to do with milk, I don't know, but you get the point hahaha