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View Full Version : ws4sb3 vs 5,3,1



Darracq
12-14-2009, 02:36 PM
Anyone spent much time on both of these. Any better size gains or strenght gains on one or the other.

NickAus
12-14-2009, 03:18 PM
Depends what you want, Westside would be much better for a powerlifter.

xolix
12-14-2009, 03:35 PM
don't think so , 531 was the first program that helped me to deadlift 660 (300 kg ) raw , after using years westside ... 531 is for powerlifting too !!

ThomasG
12-14-2009, 03:37 PM
Rotate them every so often.... Both great programs. I'm on ws4sbV.3 right now and when I'm done I'm thinking about trying 531.

gatorman2k6
12-14-2009, 03:38 PM
I'm interested in hearing people's opinions on this too. I think someone asked about incorporating 5/3/1 with DeFranco's routine and he said if he had a long time to work with them, that he likes to do that, but only if he can work with them and immediate results aren't a priority.

Astreocclu
12-14-2009, 03:53 PM
Dont know about 5/3/1, but I am confident in west side now as i finally started seeing gains in my lifts after a good month plateau.

Lones Green
12-14-2009, 04:15 PM
The truth is, you can progress on either. It just depends on what type of routine you want, which you like better, which fits your schedule better, etc

Personally I like Westside, but I haven't tried 5/3/1. Why don't you try both of them and figure out which you like better for yourself.

You'll see success stories with both, Joe D and Wendler have both trained people and make tremendous gains in size and strength

NickAus
12-14-2009, 04:28 PM
don't think so , 531 was the first program that helped me to deadlift 660 (300 kg ) raw , after using years westside ... 531 is for powerlifting too !!

I can't see how you can go wrong using the rep method, max effort method and dynamic method but fair enough 660 is a good deadlift for sure.

Darracq
12-14-2009, 04:53 PM
I like the looks of both programs, and i havnt made very good gains rotating lifts and going to 3 rep maxes, but i have been fighting some shoulder problems that might be holding me back. I did do 5,3,1 for a month for bench only and i benched every 5 days instead of once a week, i hit all kinds of rep prs but didnt realy do much for my max but then again i didnt do it very long, and i didnt follow the program to a tee, but was happy with the gains, Eveyone says you get more strengh from singles and triples so i keep tring to do that, maybe i should just listen go myself lol.

MarcusWild
12-14-2009, 05:23 PM
I think Westside is the best, but it's difficult to do if you train alone. There's a reason most people that successfully use it train in a powerlifting gym.

gatorman2k6
12-14-2009, 07:42 PM
I think Westside is the best, but it's difficult to do if you train alone. There's a reason most people that successfully use it train in a powerlifting gym.

Great point that often gets overlooked (including myself). I have used both and 5/3/1 is easier to use when working out by yourself and with limited equipment, but both are great. I believe it was Rhodes who said to pick one and stick with it for over a year before you form an opinion on it. So, like people have said, just pick one and go with it (sometimes I need to listen to myself).

ryuage
12-14-2009, 07:46 PM
I've been looking into both programs... I am sure both would work given you put the effort in. DeFranco actually incorporates Wendler's principles into his training now a days apparently.

douglasoh5
12-14-2009, 09:09 PM
IMO to get the most out of westside you need to be a more advanced lifter....most of yall dont need to even be using bands yet...531 is alot better imo for the begginner to intermidiate lifters....why because it builds your raw strength and muscle...theres no chains or bands to confuse you....I think westside is awesome....Plan on moving up there soon...But if you cant bench your own damn btw you dont need to do it...Im sure I'll get **** for this but whatever.

MarcusWild
12-14-2009, 09:26 PM
IMO to get the most out of westside you need to be a more advanced lifter....most of yall dont need to even be using bands yet...531 is alot better imo for the begginner to intermidiate lifters....why because it builds your raw strength and muscle...theres no chains or bands to confuse you....I think westside is awesome....Plan on moving up there soon...But if you cant bench your own damn btw you dont need to do it...Im sure I'll get **** for this but whatever.

I'll agree a beginners training should be different from an elite lifters. We usually have our beginners do more 3RM and 5RM and keep things more basic for them. I don't think beginners get enough volume doing 1RM work. They do the 1RM sometimes, then follow it up with some drop sets to get the volume. Their ME movements are usually closer to the competition lifts too, because they need to build technique on them. I think the principal of hammering the tris, lats, and hamstrings is very important for them. I've never seen a beginner that's not quad dominant and a shoulder bencher.

Just like we don't introduce gear until they get solid technique and base of strength to work with first. If we get a beginner, then their first meet is usually raw.

Lones Green
12-15-2009, 03:16 AM
IMO to get the most out of westside you need to be a more advanced lifter....most of yall dont need to even be using bands yet...531 is alot better imo for the begginner to intermidiate lifters....why because it builds your raw strength and muscle...theres no chains or bands to confuse you....I think westside is awesome....Plan on moving up there soon...But if you cant bench your own damn btw you dont need to do it...Im sure I'll get **** for this but whatever.

WS4SB is a version of Westside more geared for novice lifters, I think its a good stepping stone before dving into Westside

Cmanuel
12-15-2009, 08:08 AM
I've been on 531 for nearly half a year now. It works very well for building raw strength, and I've had great gains on it. Be skeptical of anyones opinion on it unless they have ran at least 5 or so cycles. This is a program that works very well at building raw strength, but don't expect immediate results (is there any program that produces immediate results lol). It is a program that needs to be milked for a year, really more ideally.

And sometimes you will find naysayers that claim 531 isn't ideal for raw powerlifting since you train with sub maximal weights (95 percent 1RM or less). Don't listen to them... My recent meet results is evidence against that.

Oh and I train alone... I find it easy to train this way for sure.

-JM-
12-15-2009, 08:34 AM
I dont think it matters so much. I think with the right attitude and proper application of effort, both will yield similar results. The beauty of 531 however is that it is extremely straight forward. With WS4SB you will need full awareness of your lifts and weaknesses when choosing your ME exercise.

Guido
12-15-2009, 08:40 AM
I have been using 5-3-1 for a year now and have gotten great results from it (put 75 lbs on my squat, 10 on my bench which hadn't budged in a year and half, and 35 on my DL). Once I get everything I can out of it I'll probably switch to something more Westside oriented but so far so good.

nickp8
12-15-2009, 02:29 PM
I have done ws4sb and 5/3/1 and they both work really well. It really depends on how you approach it and how smart you are with picking your weights. 5/3/1 is easily to follow for most people because as stated above, it is very straight forward and the plan is basically in place for you. You just need to check your ego and use a proper training max and not a true max. For the ws4sb program by Defranco there are no percentages for you, you basically go off of feel which makes it a little more difficult for beginners to get really good gains. Sometimes you will push yourself to hard or not hard enough and that is where training experience will kick in. I saw Travis posted earlier that he hasn't missed a weight in training in a long time and thats because of his experience, I have seen a lot of beginners not only on ws4sb miss the weights a couple sessions in a row and that obviously won't get you to where you want to be. As long as you pick one and give it everything you have for at least 6 months either one will pay off. Just my 2 cents.

robchris
12-15-2009, 06:45 PM
I agree w/ nick reference to choosing the correct training %. 5-3-1 seemed to help my DL & squat but my bench was stagnate.

Once I tried WSB my BP took off!

sayagain
12-15-2009, 06:51 PM
I agree w/ nick reference to choosing the correct training %. 5-3-1 seemed to help my DL & squat but my bench was stagnate.

Once I tried WSB my BP took off!

I've had the same problem. My bench doesn't move on the 5/3/1, but my squat and deadlift seem to respond well.

KoSh
01-09-2010, 10:39 AM
I've had the same problem. My bench doesn't move on the 5/3/1, but my squat and deadlift seem to respond well.

SO why not splice them?

For lower body stuff, stick with 5/3/1. For Upper Body work? Go with the westside method.

I've been doing ALOT of thinking about this. I'm no professional, but I consider myself fairly knowledgeable in this world of weight training... (note the word fairly, still have a ton to learn :)) and I'm kind of leaning towards doing My lower body days as I have been... 5/3/1 and my upper days using Westside.

xolix
01-09-2010, 10:52 AM
i do it a bit different for my bench :

bench 5-3-1touch and go , after the final set , a second set with the same weight , but paused .
second exercise a "westside-like" movement like floorpress , boardpress , chainbench for 3 sets of 3-5 for hitting the triceps for lockoutstrength.

i need the whole ROM , thats why i like benchpress for benchpress as a mainlift every workout and weakpointtraining as assisstance.

the higher rep db bench i do on military-day and higher volume tricepswork.

JK1
01-09-2010, 03:13 PM
I personally think it depends on the lifters and the base level of conditioning that an individual has. I lifted weights for over 10 years before I ever even heard of westside. I had competed as a powerlifter both RAW and in single ply using progressive overload, but had seriously started to stagnate. Once I had things figured out, I jumped right into a "westside" program--Elitefts Basic training manual--and made gains in leaps and bounds. I'm still making good gains with a westside program now almost 5 years later. My wife had lifted weights for about 5 years but had gotten away from the gym for a couple of years (she was still active, just not lifting as often) because of her residency and grad school. She basically beat the **** out of herself with the basic training template. She also felt like she didn't get much from WSSB compared to a more traditional template. We started her on 5,3,1 last fall after a several month layoff because of school again. She has consistantly broken records using 5,3,1 every training cycle. I've got a bit more flexibility with my schedule than she does. In her case she's up at odd hours, works long hours, and can't necessarily eat right some days becuase she's in surgery for hours on end. The structure of 5,3,1 has been a very important thing for her. I think if you are a RAW cometitor or you are needing structure in your training program--ie do XXXX sets and XXXX reps, 5,3,1 is probably the best program out there.

JK1
01-09-2010, 03:14 PM
I dont think it matters so much. I think with the right attitude and proper application of effort, both will yield similar results. The beauty of 531 however is that it is extremely straight forward. With WS4SB you will need full awareness of your lifts and weaknesses when choosing your ME exercise.

Thats very important in my mind. You absolutely have to accurately identify weaknesses to get the most from WSSB.