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View Full Version : Cals on Training Day/ Off Day



Coldasice
12-22-2009, 09:05 PM
I read you need 2 X your total bodyweight in Carbs on Training Day, and 1 X BW on off days..Protein is a constant at 1.5 X lean body mass..
My maintenance calories I found to be about 3360 cals..
So if I'm looking to gain size I should aim for about 3610 cals..

My training day diet looks good:
3600 cals, 325 g Protein, 440 g Carbs, and 80 g Fat,

My off day I'm confused about.. if I try to go for 1 g Carb X BW my intake is very low.. so do I stick with aiming for 3600 cals even on my off days or do I take it down?

Coldasice
12-23-2009, 05:51 PM
Any comments

Allen Cress
12-23-2009, 06:00 PM
You are overcomplicating things. Your body doesn't work that way. I hate it when people say you need to eat less on non-training day because they think your not burning as much fuel or your more likely to gain fat.

"I'm not sure where this one comes from, but it reflects a bias toward seeing our body as being on the same man made 24-hour clock that guides us from one day to the next. Quite simply our bodies do not work this way, on this time schedule.

This assumption draws two conclusions that are faulty at best. One is that you can somehow get fat in a day. Not true. Once we've re-programmed the body to be a fat burning machine, then you won't get fat in a day.

The other assumption is a negation of the hypertrophy process. This process is complex and metabolically expensive. Satellite cells will only fuse with the myocyte to create a bigger cell when very specific conditions are met. These involve a supercompensation effect. Cells must have full storage of nutrients and energy.

Only at this point will the body build up actin/myosin components triggered from a training effect. This takes time and an understanding of creating supercompensation to energy stores within the cell. Once this happens and cells are properly hydrated, only then will there by a signal for higher concentrations of IGF 1 and 2, which will then, combined with other growth factors, create a bigger cell.

What all this means is that concentrating on always 'burning off' nutrients, neglects proper storage essential to real growth. Most dieting bodybuilders will tell you they're always hungriest on off days of training. This is essential biofeedback.

Hunger means two things fat is being burned (hence the hunger signal), and the body is in "need" of something. This is a very simplistic extrapolation, but true none the less. When my clients are dieting to get shredded and I give them a cheat day I tell them to take it on an off day.

Remember, once a fat burning metabolism has been established, then energy goes to where it's needed most. With proper training stimulus, this means nutrient supercompensation within the cells, which is exactly what the aim should be. Eating less on off days misses this entirely because once again the focus is too micro analytical".

So the key is finding the amount of calories needed to promote growth and not over consume them. Its the balance of calories each and everyday thats important, not whether you eat less on an off day.

Coldasice
12-23-2009, 06:46 PM
Awesome, thanks for the reply. So I wouldn't change the amount of carbs I'm taking in at all for the day? I take 200 g of Dextrose and 40 g Protein (Whey Protein Isolate) after each workout..so on an off day would I have an extra meal to make up the 80g Carbs and 40g Protein?

T o m m Y
12-23-2009, 06:51 PM
I have always lowered my cals and carbs on my off days for the sake of im not really that active and scared of putting on fat lol..

So your saying its NOT a good idea to lower your cals on off days,it will screw everything up?

Allen Cress
12-24-2009, 08:41 PM
Awesome, thanks for the reply. So I wouldn't change the amount of carbs I'm taking in at all for the day? I take 200 g of Dextrose and 40 g Protein (Whey Protein Isolate) after each workout..so on an off day would I have an extra meal to make up the 80g Carbs and 40g Protein?

Unless you have a high metabolic rate I would get rid of the dextrose period. Just eat any starch or fruit for your carbs at that meal, but yes keep the same calorie intake at that meal. The post workout window is highly over rated.

Allen Cress
12-24-2009, 08:44 PM
I have always lowered my cals and carbs on my off days for the sake of im not really that active and scared of putting on fat lol..

So your saying its NOT a good idea to lower your cals on off days,it will screw everything up?

No, its not. There are different ways to get the body into a fat burning mode such as staggering your calories and/or the typical way of gradually reducing them over time with the proper training protocol of course. It just takes expertise to determine this to be safe.

Skalami
12-27-2009, 11:41 AM
does this little analogy hold up: your body is like a factory/warehouse, youre brain is the owner. The workers are the muscle and the profit is fat. A factory will only higher as much workers (muscle) as it needs to make the product (the product is your daily energy expenditure...lifting things, moving around and also working out) food in this analogy is orders being placed and paid for. The factory allocates a certain percentage of that money right off the bat to raw materials and labor to build hte product, the rest gets put into the bank as profit (FAT). The warehouse and the owner would love to just accumulate money (FAT) all day long while keeping the workers (muscle) constant. The workers do the work load but they consume money just being there so too many is a waste of precious money. But if orders keep coming in and the factory (BODY) isnt able to keep up. The boss (brain) will have to decide to add more workers (muscle). Its almost worse to have too little workers and not be able to finish a workload then to have a few extra workers just sitting around waiting for the work to pick up. The body never knows when the ability to finish a workload might be the difference between life and death.


is that just stupid or does it work at all? Its just a random half baked thought i had while driving

Allen Cress
12-27-2009, 12:37 PM
Its just very general and our bodies are far from that.

LuNa
12-27-2009, 03:35 PM
Reading this topic has made me realize how much i dont know. I have been lowering carbs and cals on off days expecting to get bigger while staying at the same bf%. I realize now i might have been minimizing my gains.

Off Road
12-27-2009, 05:05 PM
Reading this topic has made me realize how much i dont know.
I feel like that very often around here.

Skalami
12-28-2009, 04:47 AM
http://www.ergo-log.com/epocdiet.html

jp2
12-28-2009, 05:14 AM
You are overcomplicating things. Your body doesn't work that way. I hate it when people say you need to eat less on non-training day because they think your not burning as much fuel or your more likely to gain fat.

"I'm not sure where this one comes from, but it reflects a bias toward seeing our body as being on the same man made 24-hour clock that guides us from one day to the next. Quite simply our bodies do not work this way, on this time schedule.

This assumption draws two conclusions that are faulty at best. One is that you can somehow get fat in a day. Not true. Once we've re-programmed the body to be a fat burning machine, then you won't get fat in a day.

The other assumption is a negation of the hypertrophy process. This process is complex and metabolically expensive. Satellite cells will only fuse with the myocyte to create a bigger cell when very specific conditions are met. These involve a supercompensation effect. Cells must have full storage of nutrients and energy.

Only at this point will the body build up actin/myosin components triggered from a training effect. This takes time and an understanding of creating supercompensation to energy stores within the cell. Once this happens and cells are properly hydrated, only then will there by a signal for higher concentrations of IGF 1 and 2, which will then, combined with other growth factors, create a bigger cell.

What all this means is that concentrating on always 'burning off' nutrients, neglects proper storage essential to real growth. Most dieting bodybuilders will tell you they're always hungriest on off days of training. This is essential biofeedback.

Hunger means two things fat is being burned (hence the hunger signal), and the body is in "need" of something. This is a very simplistic extrapolation, but true none the less. When my clients are dieting to get shredded and I give them a cheat day I tell them to take it on an off day.

Remember, once a fat burning metabolism has been established, then energy goes to where it's needed most. With proper training stimulus, this means nutrient supercompensation within the cells, which is exactly what the aim should be. Eating less on off days misses this entirely because once again the focus is too micro analytical".

So the key is finding the amount of calories needed to promote growth and not over consume them. Its the balance of calories each and everyday thats important, not whether you eat less on an off day.

I enjoy reading your replies. Thanks for putting effort into them, they are very informative.