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View Full Version : What role do the side delts play in benching?



n.die_beast
01-15-2010, 05:23 AM
Louie recommends doing different raises for the shoulders rather than pressing. I understand that the rear delts are involved in stabilizing the weight but what do the side delts do?

vdizenzo
01-15-2010, 06:40 AM
I have recently found training shoulders in all different positions is very important to their health and stability. Most of my shoulder training has been from pressing. This has left me with some muscular imabalances that are causing me problems. I am still a big believer in pressing movements, but I am adding in lots of other movements a couple of times a week.

Beverly McD.
01-15-2010, 06:47 AM
The same. The shoulder joint is highly vulnerable. It's a joint that is capable of movement in several directions (up, down, around, etc.). That versatility also makes it easily injured. Strenghening the surrounding muscles, front rear and sides, protects the shoulder joint.
Having strong front delts and weaker side or rear delts (for example) causes a muscle imbalance that promotes injury.

ScottYard
01-15-2010, 07:16 AM
Like everyone else said. Any weakness is a bad thing. Especially in the shoulder area. I only hit my front and rear delts for a while and now my shoulder is banged up. Your only as strong as your weakest link

n.die_beast
01-17-2010, 11:59 AM
So side delts need to be trained to prevent injury. Vince if you could go back in time with your shoulder work what would you do differently? What advice would you give to a beginner doing all three lifts in terms of pressing and raises for the shoulders?

mastermonster
01-17-2010, 05:10 PM
So side delts need to be trained to prevent injury. Vince if you could go back in time with your shoulder work what would you do differently? What advice would you give to a beginner doing all three lifts in terms of pressing and raises for the shoulders?

Not Vince here, but the advice I give is to treat your assistance work like a bodybuilder does his early years of training. Basic and balanced. Make sure you're keeping all of the muscles (and as mentioned there are 3 heads to the deltoids) evenly developed. One basic move per muscle you're targeting. One thing to also consider is making sure you do enough exercise physiology research to know what muscles are primary movers in what exercise. If you don't you'll be doing more volume than you can recover from by doing too many exercises that are repetitive in basic function. For example: If your front delts respond well to the bench press or incline press (most do) it wouldn't be neccessary to do overhead presses each week for a delt assistance move. Side DB Laterals (if your shoulders are healthy) would hit the area of the delt that is least benefited by the previous pressing move. Then be aware that the rear delts are also worked pretty efficiently during most rowing movements and it become even more apparent that the assistance effort that would work most efficiently, without so much overtraining risk; would be the DB side laterals.

Bottom line is to take the training seriously enough to work your brain too (that's part of your training), and not just your muscles. Do some research and get the most bang for your effort that you can recover from. A lot of guys train hard enough. What it eventually comes down to is who trains smart enough. Your questions here are a good indication that you are already aware of this. Good luck!

Buddy McKee

n.die_beast
01-19-2010, 09:28 AM
So I should basically try to listen to my body.

Niko_El_Piko
01-19-2010, 04:18 PM
I believe the most important thing is to have healthy and strong delts for a good BP.
I work my rotator cuffs everyday I train, before any kind of press exercises.
And work my delts twice in the week. One Overhead Press 4 x 10/8/6/4 increasing weight.
The second workout is lateral and posterior raises, together with some "Face Pulls".
I donīt work front delt, because they get too much stress.
The lateral head is very important to grant a stong shoulder.

Rgds!

jtteg_x
01-19-2010, 06:29 PM
Wasn't there a exercise called "H-roll" or something like that to help those that have shoulder issues or just a lift to prehab shoulder injuries? What other lifts would target side delts besides db side raises?

vdizenzo
01-19-2010, 07:01 PM
So side delts need to be trained to prevent injury. Vince if you could go back in time with your shoulder work what would you do differently? What advice would you give to a beginner doing all three lifts in terms of pressing and raises for the shoulders?

I would have added in more side, front, and rear delt work. Just different stuff to hit different angles. If nothing else, I would have included indian club swings.

I am doing all the little things now and already feel a huge difference. It's never too late to teach an old dog new tricks.

mastermonster
01-19-2010, 07:16 PM
Wasn't there a exercise called "H-roll" or something like that to help those that have shoulder issues or just a lift to prehab shoulder injuries? What other lifts would target side delts besides db side raises?

I'm older with a lot of shoulder issues (football, boxing, BBing and powerlifting). I have no cartilege left in my left shoulder. Lateral raises with any weight at all put very painful stress on that joint. What I've found I can still do with very noticable and visible results; is a 45 degree upright row and shrug motion with a dumbell in each hand. I'll use between 40s and 60s and pull them up until the upper arms are approx. 45 degrees to the floor; holding that top position for a short peak contraction before lowering them. I'll do about 3 sets of 10-12 reps and really feel it in the side delts (lateral head) and traps. These cause almost no pain to my bad shoulder.

AdamBAG
01-20-2010, 09:06 AM
I would have added in more side, front, and rear delt work. Just different stuff to hit different angles. If nothing else, I would have included indian club swings.

I am doing all the little things now and already feel a huge difference. It's never too late to teach an old dog new tricks.

Vincent, would you be able to post up how you made your own Indian Clubs again? I can't find the post.

SMK41
01-20-2010, 05:40 PM
what part of the delt do face pulls hit the most?

vdizenzo
01-20-2010, 06:47 PM
Vincent, would you be able to post up how you made your own Indian Clubs again? I can't find the post.

I just used some black pipe from Home Depot. It cost me less than $20 to make two of them. Here are the pieces you need: 3/4" nipple 12" long, 3/4 cap on one end, 3/4" to 1 1/4" coupling on the other, then screwed on a 1 1/4" nipple 3" long, and then put a 1 1/4 cap on that end.

EmptyBarbell
01-20-2010, 07:11 PM
From having been stupid and tore a rotator cuff... and having the benefit of speaking to several therapists..I now focus alot more on my rotator cuff which strengthens that shoulder ball & joint area as well as the rear delts.....as often the case we ignore the rear...when we focus on building the chest.........the rear needs just as much work as the front area... equal development means big bench

AdamBAG
01-21-2010, 08:21 AM
Thanks! I'll have to build some.

minotaur70
01-21-2010, 10:08 PM
awesome info Vincent

Erik 23
01-21-2010, 11:49 PM
I just used some black pipe from Home Depot. It cost me less than $20 to make two of them. Here are the pieces you need: 3/4" nipple 12" long, 3/4 cap on one end, 3/4" to 1 1/4" coupling on the other, then screwed on a 1 1/4" nipple 3" long, and then put a 1 1/4 cap on that end.

Vdizenzo i was wondering if you could put up a picture as id like to see what they look like i might try to build a pair.also can you tell me how much the ones you made weigh if you know or does the weight really not make all too big of a differnce.Also do you see a big differnce in using these now as opposed to differnt excercises with the dumbells kettlebells etc... Thanx

KGM
01-22-2010, 06:18 AM
I just used some black pipe from Home Depot. It cost me less than $20 to make two of them. Here are the pieces you need: 3/4" nipple 12" long, 3/4 cap on one end, 3/4" to 1 1/4" coupling on the other, then screwed on a 1 1/4" nipple 3" long, and then put a 1 1/4 cap on that end.

Brilliant!!! Healthy shoulders via clubs always sounded win/win...but to actually buy clubs->$$$. You're a beast in the gym, but do you think your version might be too heavy for a guy pushing my numbers(sig)?

KGM
01-24-2010, 08:26 AM
Vdizenzo i was wondering if you could put up a picture as id like to see what they look like i might try to build a pair.also can you tell me how much the ones you made weigh if you know or does the weight really not make all too big of a differnce.Also do you see a big differnce in using these now as opposed to differnt excercises with the dumbells kettlebells etc... Thanx

I just bumped into THIS
<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/PQKsyqQPRpc&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/PQKsyqQPRpc&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>
I think it illustrates what Vdiznezo has made.

4g64fiero
01-24-2010, 08:52 AM
Its not quite clear to me what to do if I am already benching and rowing if I should do any extra work for the front and rear delts. It appears that I should just do some accessorie work for the side delts. Would military presses take care of this? Is there a compound movement I can do that would help or should this be an isolation movement?

n.die_beast
01-24-2010, 12:00 PM
If powerlifters are working muscles to protect the joints as well as for performance on the platform then why kick the **** out of your triceps and do nothing for biceps. Are the joints in the arms less vulnerable to injury?

Erik 23
01-24-2010, 12:58 PM
I just bumped into THIS
<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/PQKsyqQPRpc&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/PQKsyqQPRpc&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>
I think it illustrates what Vdiznezo has made.

Hey thanx man

Travis Bell
01-24-2010, 01:05 PM
If powerlifters are working muscles to protect the joints as well as for performance on the platform then why kick the **** out of your triceps and do nothing for biceps. Are the joints in the arms less vulnerable to injury?

Because every time you do some form of rowing exercise, you're working your biceps indirectly.

Most powerlifters do plenty of rowing work

robchris
01-24-2010, 01:06 PM
If powerlifters are working muscles to protect the joints as well as for performance on the platform then why kick the **** out of your triceps and do nothing for biceps. Are the joints in the arms less vulnerable to injury?

PL'ers do plenty of bi-work bro... Albeit, its usually in the form of pulling & rowing movements.

I do a lot of hammer-curls & forearm work also, to assist in controling the bar on the BP.
RC