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David Trantham
02-22-2010, 01:43 PM
i was tryiing to get a discussion started. what have you made the most progress as far as strenght gains and muscle gains, carbs or fat? we all know that protein helps repair and recover from muscle break down, now a lot of powerlifters and bodybuilders are incorporating more essential fats into to their diet, which type of diet do you follow and what have your results been?

i generally eat alot more fat in my diet and not so much carbs any more, (mostly just vegs for carbs)i have noticed i am getting stronger and staying leaner this off season. last year i also did things different on my diet, more fat less carbs and here again thru out the entire diet i retained almost all of my strenght and lost close to 17 lbs. SO WHAT DO YOU DO CARBS OR FAT??????

VikingWarlord
02-22-2010, 01:53 PM
As someone that's been overweight for most of my life, I find that I do a lot better all around on low carb diets. My insulin sensitivity is screwed up from so many years of being a fat kid and I have a really hard time functioning if I try to take in too much starch from any source.

JSully
02-22-2010, 02:23 PM
I agree.. low carbs, high fat.. I'm getting much better results and the weight is coming off much easier.. I just give myself a free day or a carbup once a week and it keeps me satisfied.. I've dropped close to 10lbs and my bench has gone up approx 20lbs..

pillsbury
02-22-2010, 03:19 PM
I agree I've gotten good gains with high fat although you still need a few Carbs to grow I usually take in 50 to 100 grams of complex carbs and eat peanuts, cheese, avocados, and olive oil with minimal far gain.

Allen Cress
02-22-2010, 07:37 PM
I myself get good gains off both, but overall I would have to say I gain more from a carb based diet. This past offseason my diet was at 5000 cal with a 30% protein, 55% carb, 15% fat ratio and gains were great and fairly lean but my fat intake even just at 15% with a 5000 cal diet was 100 grams per day.

Its definitley all individual but essential fats are a must in the off season. Even with most my clients on a carb based diet have 20% of their calories from fat.

Invain
02-22-2010, 10:20 PM
Fat for me by far. I feel better physically and mentally on a high fat diet. I haven't tried putting any mass on lately, but I have gone from about 25% bf to 10% while maintaining almost all my mass and strength going keto 5 days a week.

calhoun295
02-24-2010, 06:07 PM
WIth powerlifting/resistance training being mainly anaerobic, wouldn't it be more beneficial on a high carb diet? As in replentish the glyogen stores because that's what you're primarily using as fuel during training?

What is the benefit of fat? I thought you didn't start using it as fuel until prolonged low intensity training.

VikingWarlord
02-24-2010, 06:10 PM
WIth powerlifting/resistance training being mainly anaerobic, wouldn't it be more beneficial on a high carb diet? As in replentish the glyogen stores because that's what you're primarily using as fuel during training?

What is the benefit of fat? I thought you didn't start using it as fuel until prolonged low intensity training.

The body can create glycogen out of fat, carbohydrate, or protein. Different people have different insulin sensitivity and too many carbs can really screw up the system if that's the case.

earthbuddy1
02-26-2010, 07:59 AM
I myself believe that a higher fat lower carb diet works better for me. Heres why.

When I was lower carb, say 25% to 30%, I did well. Felt fine and dropped some fat and kept some mass. I decided to go into a mild bulk to gain some mass for winter and cut for spring, so I added carbs up to about 45% . I have gained weight but most of it has went to my fat stores. There is very little lean mass gained. Now when I cut, If I lose no muscle, im calculating I will end up with a net 5lb muscle gain out of a 15lb mild bulk gain. I noticed when I bumped cal up at the beginning by 200 cal, then another 200 cal a few weeks later, I did not gain weight or waist size, but, once I adjusted macros to ensure 40 to 45% carb while keeping cal at the same level, my waist blew up and weight gain started. I kept it up though over a 6 month time span and stabilized at a 15 lb weight gain but also a 4 inch increase in my waist . I can only assume that I may be a bit carb sensitive due to my excess fat weight from several years ago, so Im going lower carb in about a week. Just need to dial in a diet and macro setup that favors lower carb,

Travis Bell
02-26-2010, 08:15 AM
I'm with Allen, I've done well off of both diets, however tend to do better on high carb diets.

I actually don't respond too well on low carb stuff. My body just get's super slow and when combined with the high fats, I just don't do well.

I've done mostly carb cycling and my body feels so much better

I think the key though is to try both and find what works for you best.

J.C.
02-26-2010, 09:58 AM
I'm not advanced enough to make an informed statement, but it generally seems like I do better on a high carb diet. I think it is possibly due to the diet I grew up on and which my body got used to.

My mother is vegetarian and while she cooked some meat for the family our diet was typically high-carb, low-fat. We also ate huge amounts of home-made bread every week, and I was skinny as a rail through all of this. When I did more endurance sport my diet was very high carb as well so I think my body is quite well-adjusted to cope with carbohydrates.

Holto
02-26-2010, 10:44 AM
The body can create glycogen out of fat, carbohydrate, or protein. Different people have different insulin sensitivity and too many carbs can really screw up the system if that's the case.

It can't make it out of fat unfortunately. It would first have to make glucose from the fat.

VikingWarlord
02-26-2010, 09:09 PM
It can't make it out of fat unfortunately. It would first have to make glucose from the fat.

Good call. I have no idea how that slipped through there. Should have been clearer. Should have also added that not very much of the fat can be converted.

pillsbury
02-27-2010, 03:40 AM
I concur from my experience every body is different you have to experience for yourself what works best. From years of bulking and cutting I've foundfor myself I respond well to low to no carbs but if you leave out the fat you eat alot of muscle in the process. So gaining weight with minimal fat gain with high fat low carbs is best for me as I assimilate carbs well so its relatively easy for me to gain weight and alot of fat as well ( former fat kid ). Also for all the newbs out there don't read all these diets of pros and think you can eat 600 grams of carbs and get big like them, they know they're bodies well.

Guido
02-27-2010, 05:05 PM
I find that I can still get stronger on relatively lower carbs and higher fat/high protein diets. I've been doing paleo+dairy for a while now and have gotten much leaner and continue to make progress on most of my lifts even though I'm a fairly advanced lifter. My weight has held steady, too, because I'm still eating maintenance calories.

When I was bulking and just trying to gain weight in general as a novice trainee I was eating very high carb (600+ grams per day) and was packing on the weight like crazy. I gained quite a bit of fat in the process, too, and I'm not sure how much of my strength gains at that time could be attributed to newbie gains or the diet and weight gain.

fixationdarknes
03-01-2010, 12:16 AM
On the topic of low carb diets, about how many carbs should I take in each day at minimum? I'm about 5'7" 150 lbs (I think my maintenance is around 2700-3000) and am sort of trying to maintain weight while adding strength and trying to remain clean with a low carb diet, but I'm not sure how low I should go. And how high of carbs is still considered "low" ?

roaster
03-02-2010, 09:10 PM
Carbohydrates play an important role in fat loss,i think.

KingWilder
03-03-2010, 02:42 PM
On the topic of low carb diets, about how many carbs should I take in each day at minimum? I'm about 5'7" 150 lbs (I think my maintenance is around 2700-3000) and am sort of trying to maintain weight while adding strength and trying to remain clean with a low carb diet, but I'm not sure how low I should go. And how high of carbs is still considered "low" ?

According to Lyle McDonald, 50g of carbs is all that is essential for your body. I'll echo what everyone else said as an answer to your other question that it's going to be completely dependent on the person as far as what is considered high and what ranges are tolerable.

I, personally, have always done better with higher fat...throwing in 1-2 higher carb days during the week.

joey54
03-05-2010, 07:29 PM
I have noticed throughout the years I feel strongest and look leanest when I eat a good amount of quarker oats, so carbs for me.

Mick Manley
03-05-2010, 07:52 PM
ive lost weight doing ketosis and gotten stronger. Right now im just eating as much as i can, with a half ketosis approach on my non training/cardio days. Ill eat no carbs and do my cardio, it helps me keep lean and still keep getting stronger.

CaptainMorgan
03-06-2010, 07:08 PM
Do you guys limit your fat intake to a certain number of grams when going low carb, or is it unlimited like protein?

AKMass
03-06-2010, 08:34 PM
I tend to do better with carbs...As long as they're low GI carbs. Pop tarts, fruit juice, etc makes my belly grow too quickly. Most likely because they're so easy to eat.

Mark!
03-07-2010, 01:29 AM
I've been counting carbs, usually hitting around 80-120g/day. I have a question about counting them. Do I count net carbs or do I count total carbs when on a low carb diet?

The Gasman UK
03-12-2010, 03:03 AM
I tend to do better with carbs...As long as they're low GI carbs. Pop tarts, fruit juice, etc makes my belly grow too quickly. Most likely because they're so easy to eat.

I agree with this!

Currently cutting and running about 250g protein, 120g carbs, 80g fats. Working very well, then Saturday I'll recarb and up the carbs, and drop the protein a little. Fats the same throughout. Working well.

Ben F Burgess
03-12-2010, 10:55 AM
Definately high carbs for me. I followed a paleo type thing for a couple of years (loads of fats from nuts & oils) thinking i was doing good.

I switched to carb cycling and BOOM. My lbm and strength shot RIGHT up, and fast. I actually find i lean out from having super high carb days as well, every now and then, for some reason.

alexjoan
03-15-2010, 01:02 AM
Advocates of very low carbohydrate diets advise people to consume kilojoules mainly from protein and fat sources. This means limiting cereals, some vegetables and fruit, while eating more meat, dairy foods and fat. Typical foods eaten on a low carbohydrate diet include beef, chicken, bacon, fish, eggs and non-starchy vegetables, as well as fats such as oils, butter and mayonnaise. Forbidden foods include fruit, bread, grains, starchy vegetables and dairy products other than cheese, cream or butter.

CaptainMorgan
03-17-2010, 07:54 PM
So do you low carbers limit your fat intake, or is it pretty much anything goes?

I've been doing a low carb paleolithic style diet with dairy, and it seems to be working. I lost a couple inches off my gut, and Im not losing weight on the scale too quickly. Eating wise, it keeps me satisfied. I'm getting in all my calories and all I'm mainly eating is red meat, cheese, and veggies.

skinny99
03-18-2010, 09:37 AM
So do you low carbers limit your fat intake, or is it pretty much anything goes?

I've been doing a low carb paleolithic style diet with dairy, and it seems to be working. I lost a couple inches off my gut, and Im not losing weight on the scale too quickly. Eating wise, it keeps me satisfied. I'm getting in all my calories and all I'm mainly eating is red meat, cheese, and veggies.

I cycle carbs, on my low carb days I don't worry about fats at all. On the moderate or high carb days I pay much more attention to fat. I think it is all about balance. It is hard to do low carb and low fat at the same time and eat anything decent (I can only stand so much chicken breasts and tuna).

thewicked
03-27-2010, 09:39 AM
higher fat diets definately lean more towards strength gains...the muscle fiber type activated during HEAVY work predominately uses fat as a fuel source. Not to mention from what I've read and discussed that diets higher in fats tend to lead to a greater production in recovery and growth in these muscle fiber types.

Nosaj
03-27-2010, 02:01 PM
Ultimately, fat and carbs are both just sources of energy and ATP. I think the biggest thing to remember about fat and carbs is it isin't one or the other, and it isin't an all or nothing type deal. I think the most important thing to keep in mind when referring to energy sources is meal timing. If timed correctly, the body is going to use carbs/fat and not store them, so regardless of body type and carb sensitivity, anyone who works out will benefit from eating carbs/fat if done so with proper timing. Obviously people who smell a donut and gain weight have to be much more careful, but that comes with trial and error and personal experience for what works best for each one of us. I personally respond great off a high carb diet, something in the 40p/40c/20f %'s range.