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View Full Version : Anyone use 531 with equipment?



thegreatone
02-26-2010, 08:15 AM
If you did at what % did you gear up? All sets? or staps down to a certain %? Did you use you shirt on all sets?

I tried searching but 531 and equipment bring tons of hits.

Thanks

StLRPh
02-26-2010, 08:40 AM
http://www.elitefts.com/documents/531bench.htm

Brian C
02-26-2010, 01:51 PM
I train 531 on all lifts at the moment, And I keep it all raw except for squats. I wear powerpants just to give a little hip support(not much carryover). I squat wide and pull sumo, so I want to save on the wear and tear on them. I dont plan on competing raw, so it really doent matter.

Travis Bell
02-26-2010, 03:08 PM
Tone Barbaccio has done something similar if I'm not mistaken. I'm sure he's got some good input on the topic

Guido
02-26-2010, 03:59 PM
I was doing the 5-3-1 raw for squat and bench but deadlfiting in the suit for a long time and was still getting good results. It can be done, certainly. I don't like doing higher rep work in the bench shirt, though. I'm not sure if it's as ideal for shirt benching.

thegreatone
03-01-2010, 03:01 AM
Thanks guys. I have done 5/3/1 raw (for 6 months) then switched to Sheiko for a few cycle. I think I may stick with Sheiko (equipt cycle) for BP and Sq and use the 5/3/1 for DL. Last cycle I went up in both but my DL stayed the same. When doing 5/3/1 my DL always improved. my goal to pull 600 in May and I'm at 585. Any other suggestions? Thanks again

JK1
03-02-2010, 04:20 PM
Tone Barbaccio has done something similar if I'm not mistaken. I'm sure he's got some good input on the topic

I talked to Tone about what he did because we are trying to figure out how to transition my wife from 5/3/1 to gear for SPF Nationals. My understanding from what he told me was that he has since quit 5/3/1 while he was training in gear. He made great RAW gains with it, especially on his deadlift but transitioning it ended up being too difficult and he went back to his old training template with gear.

I'm in the final stages where we need to get going with her meet prep, so if anyone has a proven way of incorporating 5/3/1 with gear, I'm very, very interested. Otherwise we are going back to our older DE/ME template for the weeks leading up to the meet.

ACaslow
03-03-2010, 10:19 PM
I talked to Tone about what he did because we are trying to figure out how to transition my wife from 5/3/1 to gear for SPF Nationals. My understanding from what he told me was that he has since quit 5/3/1 while he was training in gear. He made great RAW gains with it, especially on his deadlift but transitioning it ended up being too difficult and he went back to his old training template with gear.

I'm in the final stages where we need to get going with her meet prep, so if anyone has a proven way of incorporating 5/3/1 with gear, I'm very, very interested. Otherwise we are going back to our older DE/ME template for the weeks leading up to the meet.

I have played around with an idea about this but only on paper..... I like the setup because of its simplicity and also because it's proven to be effective.... I was going to write a article on this for jim and dave, but because i havn't used it yet, tested it or thinking of running through it... I just don't think it's fair... but anyways, here is my idea.

The transition to gear cannot be taken lightly, there are two facets to performing, performing well, in gear. One being mechanical or learning the gear (depth, touch, get to bar etc....) and the 2nd of course is getting stronger and allowing your cns to adapt to the increase in weight that is capable of being used with gear. The ideal cycle for a good 5/3/1 needs to be 12 weeks.....

There is a transitional phase - 3 weeks (if you are using multi ply gear, single ply skip this)
Another transitional phase - 3 weeks
Preparation phase - 3 weeks
competitive/realization phase - 3 weeks

Because of the intensity increase the gear allows, 5/3/1 becomes 3/2/1...
The first phase is the first transition, this is the beginning phase of gear adaptation. So for squats I would intruct to with briefs only, bench press use your shirt and learn the groove and comfort work lower boards here, and the deadlift I would actually go suit bottoms only.
The 2nd phase of transition you introduce your suit to squats, heavier loads on bench and also higher boards, for the deadlift nothing changes....
The prep phase, you begin to really hammer out working weights to begin focus on generating strength, comfort and really increasing your work capacity to create a good little rebound in strength gains.
The competitive phase is of course getting you ready for the actual lift and peaking...

Anyways, here are the details.... phase 1, use conservative BRIEF max for squats, shirted competitive max and deadlift use your most recent max (raw for suit bottoms only)
week 1 - 70%, 75%,80% - 3 reps each, 80% all out
Squat - self explanatory
bench - take 70% to 2brd, 75% to 1.5brd, 80% to 1brd
deadlift - use raw max number, but use suit bottoms
Week 2 - 75%, 80%, 85% - 2 reps each, all out on 85%
same as above
Week 3 - 80%, 85%, 90% - 1 reps each, all out on 90%

Phase 2
Same thing, as far as percentages go, but use now your suited max for squats. Use now your best 1board max for bench and now introduce your suited max on deadlifts but keep uisng suit bottoms only.

Phase 3
Bump up the percentages by 5%, straps up for squats and knee wraps, keep shirt as is just increase 2.5%, and start using straps up on suit. NOW, the tricky part here is that you really need to hammer the cns, so I personally would dump accesory work and use specialized lifts instead i.e. box squats, speed squats, reverse band bench, speed bench, block pulls, speed pulls etc... use them as secondary movements so maybe 4 x 4, 5 x 3, 4 x 2 using conservative percetages 60%-80% of the max belonging to the specialized lift. If you don't have it, guess, but I'd rather you LEARN it or GET IT.

Phase 4
Bump the percentages up by another 5% both weeks 1 and 2, skip week 3 and use it as a deload for peaking. Drop all reps to singles but increase each percentage to 2-3 sets each.
So....
week 1
80% x 2 x 1 reps, 85% x 2 x 1 reps, 90% x 2 x 1 reps
Week 2
85% x 2 x 1 reps, 90% x 2 x 1 reps, 95% 2 x 1 reps
Week 3
de-load
for this phase, Drop all accesory work, increase recovery modalities and specially ROM practices.

Look, this isn't well written and I probably havn't explained myself right or worst of all butchered Jim's masterpiece. BUT, it's intriguing and I might, just might give it a go if I get to a point where i have a long enough break to experiment. If anyone for whatever reason choose to try this, please give me your feedback both good or/and bad.

JK1
03-04-2010, 09:32 AM
THANK YOU AL!

That is essentially what I had originally planned out, except I was still in the "going by feel mode" and then changed my mind because I didn't want to put her on a "new" program and then have everything fall apart and me to get my butt chewed for messing up her meet prep.

My wife is competing in single ply gear as a light 148 (she'll probably be about 140 lbs) this next meet. She also hasn't had any equipment on since about this time last year. We started working in briefs at the end of the heavy squat workouts 3 weeks ago (this translates into almost an 18 week prep phase). She hit a 300 lb squat (her previous meet record is 285@132 in full gear) in just briefs during this time. To me this means her strength has gone up substantially during the last 6 months on 5/3/1. She's struggled with the squat in the past becuase of a knee injury, so hitting that weight was big to us.

We also started working in shirted work (she's in a new shirt, so we have to break the shirt in too) more as "assistance" type work, working from a 4 board down to a 2 board instead of heavy triceps work. There is a big learning curve with her and bench shirts that we've got to get through. I hadn't planned on her even getting close to touching weight for another 2 to 3 weeks.

One problem we were having was how to accurately calculate what weights we can use with the equipment because she has gotten so much stronger RAW on 5/3/1 without her gearing up completely and actually taking the weight. The way you've outlined it makes good sense. I think we are going to discuss using that approach and probably do it.

One other big thing is for meet prep, I typically cycle my shirt work--2 weeks RAW, 1 week shirted, deload over a 4 week period. This seems to have saved my shoulders quite a bit and has helped push my meet bench from 500 to 635. I thought about doing something similar with her, but we have such a learning curve with the shirt, I'm also afraid of her actually not having enough time in the shirt before the meet. What I had originally thought was a 4 week cycle, shirt work, RAW work, Shirt work, deload. The problem with that is it gets pretty complicated with the percentages in 5/3/1. Would you back off on percentages across the board or "deload" if a person follows the percentages you outlined and starts having shoulder/elbow issues?

Thank you again.

ACaslow
03-04-2010, 01:29 PM
THANK YOU AL!

That is essentially what I had originally planned out, except I was still in the "going by feel mode" and then changed my mind because I didn't want to put her on a "new" program and then have everything fall apart and me to get my butt chewed for messing up her meet prep.

My wife is competing in single ply gear as a light 148 (she'll probably be about 140 lbs) this next meet. She also hasn't had any equipment on since about this time last year. We started working in briefs at the end of the heavy squat workouts 3 weeks ago (this translates into almost an 18 week prep phase). She hit a 300 lb squat (her previous meet record is 285@132 in full gear) in just briefs during this time. To me this means her strength has gone up substantially during the last 6 months on 5/3/1. She's struggled with the squat in the past becuase of a knee injury, so hitting that weight was big to us.

We also started working in shirted work (she's in a new shirt, so we have to break the shirt in too) more as "assistance" type work, working from a 4 board down to a 2 board instead of heavy triceps work. There is a big learning curve with her and bench shirts that we've got to get through. I hadn't planned on her even getting close to touching weight for another 2 to 3 weeks.

One problem we were having was how to accurately calculate what weights we can use with the equipment because she has gotten so much stronger RAW on 5/3/1 without her gearing up completely and actually taking the weight. The way you've outlined it makes good sense. I think we are going to discuss using that approach and probably do it.

One other big thing is for meet prep, I typically cycle my shirt work--2 weeks RAW, 1 week shirted, deload over a 4 week period. This seems to have saved my shoulders quite a bit and has helped push my meet bench from 500 to 635. I thought about doing something similar with her, but we have such a learning curve with the shirt, I'm also afraid of her actually not having enough time in the shirt before the meet. What I had originally thought was a 4 week cycle, shirt work, RAW work, Shirt work, deload. The problem with that is it gets pretty complicated with the percentages in 5/3/1. Would you back off on percentages across the board or "deload" if a person follows the percentages you outlined and starts having shoulder/elbow issues?

Thank you again.

jk1,

here is the key to this cycle, the intensity is waved, so a deload has to be moderated personally. Because of the intensity being waved, I don't see a reason to be out of the shirt. Part of the problem with shoulder issues and elbow issues from shirted benching is the lack of capacity, you need to build upon it to handle the work and pounds. If, and a big if you are in a meet cycle and you begin to have strong discomfort I would not de-load but rehab for a week, this takes it further to specifically remedy the issue. Get right back on track the next week.

If she is new to the shirt and needs to learn it, remove the boards. Have her learn the groove and get her comfortable touching and pressing in the shirt full range. As an accesory movement you can add 2-3 board for lockout work. But main work should be full range. That's just my recommendation though.

Barbaccio
03-04-2010, 01:59 PM
Incredibly interesting read Al. I've saved the post. I may give this another shot later on down the line.

ACaslow
03-04-2010, 08:18 PM
Incredibly interesting read Al. I've saved the post. I may give this another shot later on down the line.

great, tone. If you decide to try this out please give me feedback or work with me. If it ends up working out very well I would actually like to spend time drawing it up and creating a better read. Keep me posted. thanks

thegreatone
03-05-2010, 04:16 AM
I have played around with an idea about this but only on paper..... I like the setup because of its simplicity and also because it's proven to be effective.... I was going to write a article on this for jim and dave, but because i havn't used it yet, tested it or thinking of running through it... I just don't think it's fair... but anyways, here is my idea.

The transition to gear cannot be taken lightly, there are two facets to performing, performing well, in gear. One being mechanical or learning the gear (depth, touch, get to bar etc....) and the 2nd of course is getting stronger and allowing your cns to adapt to the increase in weight that is capable of being used with gear. The ideal cycle for a good 5/3/1 needs to be 12 weeks.....

There is a transitional phase - 3 weeks (if you are using multi ply gear, single ply skip this)
Another transitional phase - 3 weeks
Preparation phase - 3 weeks
competitive/realization phase - 3 weeks

Because of the intensity increase the gear allows, 5/3/1 becomes 3/2/1...
The first phase is the first transition, this is the beginning phase of gear adaptation. So for squats I would intruct to with briefs only, bench press use your shirt and learn the groove and comfort work lower boards here, and the deadlift I would actually go suit bottoms only.
The 2nd phase of transition you introduce your suit to squats, heavier loads on bench and also higher boards, for the deadlift nothing changes....
The prep phase, you begin to really hammer out working weights to begin focus on generating strength, comfort and really increasing your work capacity to create a good little rebound in strength gains.
The competitive phase is of course getting you ready for the actual lift and peaking...

Anyways, here are the details.... phase 1, use conservative BRIEF max for squats, shirted competitive max and deadlift use your most recent max (raw for suit bottoms only)
week 1 - 70%, 75%,80% - 3 reps each, 80% all out
Squat - self explanatory
bench - take 70% to 2brd, 75% to 1.5brd, 80% to 1brd
deadlift - use raw max number, but use suit bottoms
Week 2 - 75%, 80%, 85% - 2 reps each, all out on 85%
same as above
Week 3 - 80%, 85%, 90% - 1 reps each, all out on 90%

Phase 2
Same thing, as far as percentages go, but use now your suited max for squats. Use now your best 1board max for bench and now introduce your suited max on deadlifts but keep uisng suit bottoms only.

Phase 3
Bump up the percentages by 5%, straps up for squats and knee wraps, keep shirt as is just increase 2.5%, and start using straps up on suit. NOW, the tricky part here is that you really need to hammer the cns, so I personally would dump accesory work and use specialized lifts instead i.e. box squats, speed squats, reverse band bench, speed bench, block pulls, speed pulls etc... use them as secondary movements so maybe 4 x 4, 5 x 3, 4 x 2 using conservative percetages 60%-80% of the max belonging to the specialized lift. If you don't have it, guess, but I'd rather you LEARN it or GET IT.

Phase 4
Bump the percentages up by another 5% both weeks 1 and 2, skip week 3 and use it as a deload for peaking. Drop all reps to singles but increase each percentage to 2-3 sets each.
So....
week 1
80% x 2 x 1 reps, 85% x 2 x 1 reps, 90% x 2 x 1 reps
Week 2
85% x 2 x 1 reps, 90% x 2 x 1 reps, 95% 2 x 1 reps
Week 3
de-load
for this phase, Drop all accesory work, increase recovery modalities and specially ROM practices.

Look, this isn't well written and I probably havn't explained myself right or worst of all butchered Jim's masterpiece. BUT, it's intriguing and I might, just might give it a go if I get to a point where i have a long enough break to experiment. If anyone for whatever reason choose to try this, please give me your feedback both good or/and bad.

Great! Thank you.