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gelong
03-12-2010, 07:27 AM
One trainer tells his trainees if they want to cut they should follow a diet that provides 400-500 calories fewer than their maintenance calorie requirement.

The other trainer tells his trainees not to reduce their daily calorie intake (unless they are gaining weight) but just replace the unhealthy foods in their diets with healthy foods

Both trainers give their trainees a three day lifting program and cardio every day.

I would prefer to follow the second trainers advice but which one is the better option. In her book, Dr Kleiner, goes with the second trainee as a trainee has to eat to get the power to lift heavier which in turn leads to bigger muscle gains and fat loss.

So the advice is not to eat less but just eat more healthily.

Opinions please. Thx.

Off Road
03-12-2010, 07:30 AM
With the way a lot of people eat, just cleaning up their diet can have a big effect on weight loss.

Daniel Roberts
03-12-2010, 08:09 AM
A healthy 3000kcal is the same as an unhealthy 3000kcal when it comes to body composition.
As for 'best', well a diet comprised mostly of unprocessed whole foods is preferred as long as it hits your required intake for the day.
In fact for anyone over 20% bf I simply recommend better food choices - ultimately overeating healthy is a lot more difficult than overeating junk and if you're much over 20% and it isn't planned then you've got some bad habits to quit. Getting too detailed at that point isn't a recipe for compliance.

Holto
03-12-2010, 08:44 AM
The second trainer doesn't realize that when people ignore calorie intake and swap out garbage for clean fuel they are actually reducing calorie intake. It's one of many arbitrary ways to limit intake. It's the same as not eating past 7, or dropping carbs.

TKisner
03-13-2010, 07:17 AM
The second trainer doesn't realize that when people ignore calorie intake and swap out garbage for clean fuel they are actually reducing calorie intake. It's one of many arbitrary ways to limit intake. It's the same as not eating past 7, or dropping carbs.

I would assume healthy food choices would include more protein. Protein has a higher TEF. Thermic Effect of Food. So although the energy is the same as carbs how much you can get out of it for weight gain or weightloss is actually less.

VikingWarlord
03-13-2010, 09:58 AM
The second trainer doesn't realize that when people ignore calorie intake and swap out garbage for clean fuel they are actually reducing calorie intake. It's one of many arbitrary ways to limit intake. It's the same as not eating past 7, or dropping carbs.

This is the biggest advantage. I tell people this all the time. Put in the simplest terms, eating real foods with minimal processing will prevent your body from letting you overeat. No one believes it until they actually DO it.

There are 3 rules I give people when they want to start cleaning up. First, eat some sort of lean protein and fresh fruits or vegetables every time they eat. Second, if it comes in a brightly colored package, put it the **** down. The third one I got from The New Rules Of Lifting and basically states that you shouldn't eat something if it took more than three steps of processing to get from where it started to your grocery store.


I would assume healthy food choices would include more protein. Protein has a higher TEF. Thermic Effect of Food. So although the energy is the same as carbs how much you can get out of it for weight gain or weightloss is actually less.

This is technically accurate but you're also talking a REALLY miniscule difference. The calories actually burned by TEF aren't great enough most of the time to really be a big deal. I see as much as 30% quoted for protein but have a really hard time thinking it's true. You might end up with an extra 100kCal burned a day if you're lucky. Incidentally, that's the same amount that it's estimated you'd burn by drinking 4L of ice water every day.

Not enough that it really matters. Protein is very important, but there is a long list of benefits that come before TEF.

Joe Black
03-14-2010, 12:03 AM
As the guys say, cleaning up your diet will actually normally result in consuming fewer calories. It's more of a broad approach though and it's probably fine if you are 20% fat as Daniel said, but if you are 15% trying to get to 10%, you need to take a more detailed, calorie tracking approach where you are absolutely always in a calorie defect.

Skalami
03-23-2010, 07:59 AM
yeah going from 100 calories bites to 40 calorie bites will have a big impact itself... if that isnt enough then start counting and reducing calories