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View Full Version : I'm not seeing any benefit from Speed bench



ThomasG
04-29-2010, 08:32 AM
I really don't think I'm getting much carry-over from speed bench. My best touch 'n go is 295 and pause bench 275. Maybe it's to early in my training for speed bench? I was thinking instead of speed bench replace it with pin presses or pause bench 8x3 @ 60% or some RE effort?

Travis Bell
04-29-2010, 08:35 AM
How are you evaluating whether or not you're getting benefit from speed bench?

Are you doing your accessory work properly?

Guido
04-29-2010, 09:11 AM
How long have you been doing speed bench work? Are you training bench twice a week? Once a week? Three times? It's helpful to know these to get some more context as to how you train.

AdamBAG
04-29-2010, 09:14 AM
Are you using accomodating resistance?

I used to doubt that speed bench worked, then I went to exclusively doing it with bands and chains and I made a lot of progress. I never had much luck with straight weight speed work.

Also, what is your max effort work like? Everyone assumes it is their speed work that is at fault, but bad exercise selection on max effort day can be the culprit as well.

C-Sobrino
04-29-2010, 10:57 AM
I don't think you can think of speed bench as (8x3 speed bench) x (12 sessions) = 10 pounds on my lift. Rather I noticed the effects of doing DE benches in how my max efforts moved and how much energy I lost in them, in addition to any carryover poundage.

Eric Downey
04-29-2010, 11:10 AM
my speed work gave me the ability to bring the weight down faster and more under controlled. it took awhile for me to see that in training. keep it up

JK1
04-29-2010, 03:38 PM
I don't think you can think of speed bench as (8x3 speed bench) x (12 sessions) = 10 pounds on my lift. Rather I noticed the effects of doing DE benches in how my max efforts moved and how much energy I lost in them, in addition to any carryover poundage.

I agree with the not being able to think of speed bench in the terms of number of sets x workouts = more weight.

The thing for me is speed work enables me to practice staying really, really tight with both my setup and as I'm moving the weight. When I'm on with my speed work and its exploding off my chest with control, my max bench goes up. If I'm loose on the speed work, I'm lolling on the bench, or I'm not moving the weight fast, my max bench is doing the same thing.

robchris
04-29-2010, 06:27 PM
Thomas,
What kind of weights are you using for speed bench? Bands and chains are a must to really see the benefits w/ DE work IMO...(45%- 55% 1rm) 9x3

Stay with it and you will see your bar speed increase w/ your ME work. More bar speed = more weight pressed. It really helped me push thru my sticking points!

chris mason
04-29-2010, 06:57 PM
You may be using too much weight. I think that is a common mistake with speed work. Try less weight and see how it goes.

Sensei
04-29-2010, 07:22 PM
You bench raw, correct?

NickAus
04-29-2010, 08:27 PM
Are you using accomodating resistance?

I used to doubt that speed bench worked, then I went to exclusively doing it with bands and chains and I made a lot of progress. I never had much luck with straight weight speed work.

Also, what is your max effort work like? Everyone assumes it is their speed work that is at fault, but bad exercise selection on max effort day can be the culprit as well.

This!!

Brian Hopper
04-29-2010, 08:39 PM
I never had much luck with straight weight speed work.


I'm pretty much the same way, most of my speed work is with bands or chains.

I also agree with what Chris said about using too much weight. I see ALOT of people who think they need a bunch of weight for speed work when they don't. Who cares if there aren't alot of plates on the bar, you just need to keep that bar moving FAST.

I just recently seen a video that "Brian C" posted of him doing speed work against minis, and it was pretty damn fast. Check it out, http://www.wannabebig.com/forums/showthread.php?122706-Brian-C-s-Journal/page36. IMO, that's pretty much how speed work is done. I'm sure you can also find alot of videos in Travis's log of him doing some speed work.

.....Just my .02

ThomasG
04-29-2010, 08:40 PM
How are you evaluating whether or not you're getting benefit from speed bench?
Are you doing your accessory work properly?

Well I do my assistance work like a bodybuilder as of the past couple weeks and really focus on TUT hypertrophy is just as important to me as power and strength


How long have you been doing speed bench work? Are you training bench twice a week? Once a week? Three times? It's helpful to know these to get some more context as to how you train.

Not very long about 2.5 months and I do it once a week 8x3.


Are you using accomodating resistance?

I used to doubt that speed bench worked, then I went to exclusively doing it with bands and chains and I made a lot of progress. I never had much luck with straight weight speed work.

Also, what is your max effort work like? Everyone assumes it is their speed work that is at fault, but bad exercise selection on max effort day can be the culprit as well.

Yes I use bands. One mistake I'm making is I use the same type of band resistance every week only changing the straight weight. Except today I decided to change the band tension


Thomas,
What kind of weights are you using for speed bench? Bands and chains are a must to really see the benefits w/ DE work IMO...(45%- 55% 1rm) 9x3

Stay with it and you will see your bar speed increase w/ your ME work. More bar speed = more weight pressed. It really helped me push thru my sticking points!

I cycle through 40-60%


You may be using too much weight. I think that is a common mistake with speed work. Try less weight and see how it goes.

I keep the sets 3-3.5 seconds.


You bench raw, correct?

Correct.

chris mason
04-29-2010, 08:48 PM
You might be keeping the speed up, but still using too great of a load for you. Remember, the advent of the speed day was to address those who could not recover from two intense workouts by body part per week. Speed work serves multiple functions one of which is a form of active recovery from the heavy work of the ME day. So, even though your percents and speed seem to be in line, YOU might need to reduce the load a bit for it to work properly for you.

ThomasG
04-29-2010, 08:52 PM
You might be keeping the speed up, but still using too great of a load for you. Remember, the advent of the speed day was to address those who could not recover from two intense workouts by body part per week. Speed work serves multiple functions one of which is a form of active recovery from the heavy work of the ME day. So, even though your percents and speed seem to be in line, YOU might need to reduce the load a bit for it to work properly for you.


This is good info Chris thanks. I thought you were supposed to use as much weight as you could in the 3-3.5 second range. My anterior deltoids burn out more than anything. I'll reduce the weight and see how things go, thanks!

SEOINAGE
04-29-2010, 09:14 PM
Honestly I think speed work helps to an extent earlier on, but just building up muscles at that stage is dang near as important imo. I try to also have a good amount of volume on my speed days. And things like floor pin press after my ME lift really help to give me progress on the bench.

K-R-M
04-30-2010, 11:03 AM
How are you evaluating whether or not you're getting benefit from speed bench?

Are you doing your accessory work properly?



Also, what is your max effort work like? Everyone assumes it is their speed work that is at fault, but bad exercise selection on max effort day can be the culprit as well.


I'm a novice/intermediate lifter, I'm interested in what you have to say about this. What do you mean by proper accessory work or exercise selection on max effort day? How do you judge if the work your doing is adequate?

AJ Roberts
04-30-2010, 12:39 PM
We really don't stick to a set weight for all sets anymore, neither do we cycle in waves. Typically we change bar every week, and then either add weight or resistance as we go. We still focus on 3 reps 3 seconds though and if bar speed slows we usually shut it down.

Travis Bell
04-30-2010, 01:01 PM
I'm a novice/intermediate lifter, I'm interested in what you have to say about this. What do you mean by proper accessory work or exercise selection on max effort day? How do you judge if the work your doing is adequate?

Well that's why I was asking. When people say "I'm not getting anything from speed work" how do you know? Unless you're actually getting slower (in which case you're using too much weight or band tension) it's really difficult to pinpoint speed work as the problem.

Accessory work needs to be kept light on DE day. Everyone wants to go heavy on it all the time and you can't do that and still have it be a dynamic workout. DE day isn't about getting stronger, it's about getting faster and improving technique.

Volume is also key. Your total volume on DE day needs to be almost double what you do on ME day.

MarcusWild
04-30-2010, 02:18 PM
I agree with what Chris and Travis said about DE work being light. I've gone lighter on my DE bench and squat, and my ME days are much better.

ThomasG
04-30-2010, 02:33 PM
Well that's why I was asking. When people say "I'm not getting anything from speed work" how do you know? Unless you're actually getting slower (in which case you're using too much weight or band tension) it's really difficult to pinpoint speed work as the problem.

Accessory work needs to be kept light on DE day. Everyone wants to go heavy on it all the time and you can't do that and still have it be a dynamic workout. DE day isn't about getting stronger, it's about getting faster and improving technique.

Volume is also key. Your total volume on DE day needs to be almost double what you do on ME day.

Travis I was assessing by past and present gains. I was having better success with RE effort rather than DE. But I really think I was just going to heavy on speed work now. I do keep me DE days light and dont take my accessory work till failure. However, I did not know the volume was supposed to be double. Man, west side is a never ending journey of learning but that's one of the reasons I enjoy it so much. Thanks for the advice.

Brian C
05-01-2010, 02:48 PM
I'm pretty much the same way, most of my speed work is with bands or chains.

I also agree with what Chris said about using too much weight. I see ALOT of people who think they need a bunch of weight for speed work when they don't. Who cares if there aren't alot of plates on the bar, you just need to keep that bar moving FAST.

I just recently seen a video that "Brian C" posted of him doing speed work against minis, and it was pretty damn fast. Check it out, http://www.wannabebig.com/forums/showthread.php?122706-Brian-C-s-Journal/page36. IMO, that's pretty much how speed work is done. I'm sure you can also find alot of videos in Travis's log of him doing some speed work.

.....Just my .02

Thanks for the props Tank! Im in agreement that lifters tend to add too much weight. Its all about checking your ego at the door and getting that bar moving fast.

ThomasG
10-03-2010, 07:53 PM
Hey everyone just to give an update. Chris was 100% right. Just because the bar is moving fast doesn't mean that its the proper amount of weight. I lowered the straight weight and tension. There has definitely been a direct carryover to my ME work I am much faster off the chest. Here is a vid of my most recent DE session


L48_yOAuRKc

Thanks for the advice everyone.

gmen5681
10-03-2010, 08:39 PM
just noticing how you have your bands set up and im surprised that the DB doesnt move around at all. i always put a 2.5 lbs plate on both sides of the DB so its doesnt roll anywhere.

icedutah
10-04-2010, 02:32 PM
That speed is more like it. Great job. Most people are going too heavy and too slow. Even though they are moving the heavier weight semi-fast. But not fast enough.