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Kroncke
05-06-2010, 12:54 PM
Do you guys have any training partners that quit with heavy weights?

I have a new training partner that quits and I've never seen anyone do it before.

I've seen new/skinny kids try too hard or a lifter get crushed by a weight that's too heavy, but never just straight up quitting.

I'm the motivator in my crew (yelling, slapping, etc.) and I can't get to this guy after months of yelling and motivation.

The other week I had to pick him up off the box and yelled @him about not quitting for a few minutes before he tried the weight again and got legitimately crushed (full effort).

Butcher
05-06-2010, 01:18 PM
I'm the motivator in my crew (yelling, slapping, etc.) and I can't get to this guy after months of yelling and motivation.


Not everyone is motivated the same way. Some people are going to absolutely resent this kind of motivation and its actually going to demotivate them. The most motivating thing anyone said to me in the gym was said in a conversational tone and not loud at all. Everyone is different and you have to understand that if your going to be trying to motivate them to push harder.

seK
05-06-2010, 01:48 PM
If anyone ever yelled or slapped me while lifting I would break my foot off in their ass.

Quitting is a pretty relative term. If I am lifting and realize a the weight is too much and I may risk injury hell ya I am going to quit.

Kroncke
05-06-2010, 02:03 PM
Not everyone is motivated the same way. Some people are going to absolutely resent this kind of motivation and its actually going to demotivate them. The most motivating thing anyone said to me in the gym was said in a conversational tone and not loud at all. Everyone is different and you have to understand that if your going to be trying to motivate them to push harder.

You are completely right.

I've found introverted people to need motivation like what works for you, but he has told me he like being yelled @ and hit (ex-Marine).

I've come to start to realize he just may be a pussy and afraid of heavy weight.

He also (despite my neurotic/repeated attempts) doesn't eat enough/right (he can afford to ) and has the worst training regimen I have ever seen.

I don't want to give up on him, but sometimes I think it's hopeless.

Magilla
05-06-2010, 02:04 PM
My motivation comes from within me. Yelling, slapping just doesn't work.

Travis Bell
05-06-2010, 02:05 PM
Some people just don't have that grinder gear.

It's partly training muscle endurance and partly mental.

Some people don't want to be hollered at. I personally don't mind. Westside is pretty intense and loud and we like it that way, but some people just don't respond well to that stuff.

Kroncke
05-06-2010, 02:06 PM
If anyone ever yelled or slapped me while lifting I would break my foot off in their ass.

Quitting is a pretty relative term. If I am lifting and realize a the weight is too much and I may risk injury hell ya I am going to quit.

Lol @someone breaking their foot off in my ass.

We may be from different schools of thought, brother.

I come from the school of thought were you push until you get crushed or grind it out.

Do you train alone?

Kroncke
05-06-2010, 02:09 PM
My motivation comes from within me. Yelling, slapping just doesn't work.

Do you quit when you go heavy?


Some people just don't have that grinder gear.

It's partly training muscle endurance and partly mental.

Some people don't want to be hollered at. I personally don't mind. Westside is pretty intense and loud and we like it that way, but some people just don't respond well to that stuff.

If someone doesn't have the grinder gear, do you think they should powerlift?

Don't you think it's almost all mental?

Also, besides the training philosophy, don't you think the psyche of Westside adds to the gyms success?

Sensei
05-06-2010, 02:16 PM
Commitment follows competence... We tend to think it's the other way around but, 99% of the time, it's not - no one makes a firm commitment to something until they've established some competence first.

Something to consider (IMO):
http://squatrx.blogspot.com/2009/11/commitment-follows-competence.html

Kroncke
05-06-2010, 03:09 PM
Commitment follows competence... We tend to think it's the other way around but, 99% of the time, it's not - no one makes a firm commitment to something until they've established some competence first.

Something to consider (IMO):
http://squatrx.blogspot.com/2009/11/commitment-follows-competence.html

Excellent blog, brother.

It was hard watching that skinny pussy keep yelling @the fat lady.

I agree 100% with you article and see it's value in the context I present.

Problem with my training partner is that he's smart (educated/successful), grew up doing athletics and survived Marine Corps boot camp, so should have all the priming necessary to be competent.

No one else in my gym will train with him because of how he trains/ridiculous his training program is.

He's a cool guy and we hangout outside of the gym (and he hooks me up because I'm poor).

What do you advise?

IronDiggy
05-06-2010, 03:30 PM
I'd advise, let him do his thing man. He isn't going to take help where he doesn't want it.

Kroncke
05-06-2010, 04:03 PM
I'd advise, let him do his thing man. He isn't going to take help where he doesn't want it.

You have a good point.

It's just hard for me to watch him crush himself.

He already had 225 crash on his ribs when his back gave out (injury from his lifting style) when we were doing decline bench press.

IronDiggy
05-06-2010, 04:21 PM
We had a guy that did the same thing in lifting... There was no grinding.... It went up or spotters had to be quick because he would come crashing down.

Sensei
05-06-2010, 04:31 PM
Excellent blog, brother.

It was hard watching that skinny pussy keep yelling @the fat lady.

I agree 100% with you article and see it's value in the context I present.

Problem with my training partner is that he's smart (educated/successful), grew up doing athletics and survived Marine Corps boot camp, so should have all the priming necessary to be competent.

No one else in my gym will train with him because of how he trains/ridiculous his training program is.

He's a cool guy and we hangout outside of the gym (and he hooks me up because I'm poor).

What do you advise?
Thank you.

So, it's not just an effort issue, it's a matter of poor self-programming? If that's the case, I'd sit him down and have a talk about realistic training expectations, how training to failure should not be a regular training approach, how training to failure is really just training to suck and teaching yourself to give up, how leaving a little in the tank is actually a good thing unless you're at a meet. That's what I'd talk with him about anyway.

Travis Bell
05-06-2010, 04:36 PM
If someone doesn't have the grinder gear, do you think they should powerlift?

Don't you think it's almost all mental?

Also, besides the training philosophy, don't you think the psyche of Westside adds to the gyms success?

No it's not all mental. We have a couple guys at Westside who either nail it or don't. Like I said, it has to be trained.

It's not for me, or you or anyone else to decide if he should powerlift. Just leave it up to him.

And as for Westside's success, the psyche is a result of the team mentality of everyone helping each other. It's usually done during the lift and it's not out of control. If someone misses a lift around there and you yell at them, the next thing you'll probably be looking at is the floor

Look clearly you're frustrated with your training partner. I think you need to as yourself why? I've seen guys do that a lot. Ok, so what? If they don't motivate themselves, it's not my problem. You can't be responsible for other people's level of mental focus.

Magilla
05-06-2010, 05:02 PM
Do you quit when you go heavy?


Quit? Yup, the very thought of lifting heavy weights makes me quit. :)

Travis said it best, you are not responsible for other people's motivation.

robchris
05-06-2010, 05:38 PM
Commitment follows competence... We tend to think it's the other way around but, 99% of the time, it's not - no one makes a firm commitment to something until they've established some competence first.

Something to consider (IMO):
http://squatrx.blogspot.com/2009/11/commitment-follows-competence.html

So true man!!!

Everyone is different so really get to know your people and figure out what motivates them! Most of the x-military guys I train w/ like myself are hardcore... Not quit in them whatsoever! Are you sure he was a Marine? (Hoo Rahh)

At any rate dont give up on him... Maybe PL'ing not for him and he'll find another form of exercise he's passionate about.

MarcusWild
05-06-2010, 05:47 PM
Do you mean if he misses a lift he just quits on it, and it's up to the spotters to get it back into the racks?

Are you at a private gym or a commercial gym? You have limited control in a commercial gym. If it's a private gym, then you can do whatever you want in terms of rules. You shouldn't have a private gym where everyone trains as a group and then one guy is off doing his own thing all the time.

Clover
05-06-2010, 06:02 PM
I'm very introverted but I wouldn't mind having somebody yell at me, so long as its somebody I respect.

Some people just aren't very intense, they like the idea of lifting weights but don't want to put in the effort.

Phenom
05-06-2010, 06:37 PM
Something to consider (IMO):
http://squatrx.blogspot.com/2009/11/commitment-follows-competence.html

I've never seen a black woman take so much yelling from a skinny white guy in my entire life.

On topic: You can only help people who really want to be helped. Let him figure out when he's ready for that. It's not your job.

JK1
05-06-2010, 11:26 PM
Some people just don't have that grinder gear.

It's partly training muscle endurance and partly mental.

Some people don't want to be hollered at. I personally don't mind. Westside is pretty intense and loud and we like it that way, but some people just don't respond well to that stuff.

It also varies depending on the lift being done. I personally think different individuals have a differering degree of golgi reflex depending on the muscles under tension.

A good example of this is my wife with her squats. She can grind a deadlift out until she almost passes out---she'll turn red, then turn blue, then fall over, never letting go of the bar. At the same time if she's squatting and she drops her hips below a certian point with a heavy weight she seems to just shut down. She can't lift the weight, no matter what.

As far as the motivation goes, I personally think you need to save the most intense stuff for right before you step on the platform. A little yelling or strong encouragment is fine, but slapping or other physical contact is best saved for the meet. That way you get the maximum effect from it.

Kroncke
05-07-2010, 01:11 AM
We had a guy that did the same thing in lifting... There was no grinding.... It went up or spotters had to be quick because he would come crashing down.

Did he stay in your crew?


Thank you.

So, it's not just an effort issue, it's a matter of poor self-programming? If that's the case, I'd sit him down and have a talk about realistic training expectations, how training to failure should not be a regular training approach, how training to failure is really just training to suck and teaching yourself to give up, how leaving a little in the tank is actually a good thing unless you're at a meet. That's what I'd talk with him about anyway.

I'm now coming to realize he just may be hopeless, because I've talked to him like this on many occasions.

What's your reasoning for not going to failure?


No it's not all mental. We have a couple guys at Westside who either nail it or don't. Like I said, it has to be trained.

It's not for me, or you or anyone else to decide if he should powerlift. Just leave it up to him.

And as for Westside's success, the psyche is a result of the team mentality of everyone helping each other. It's usually done during the lift and it's not out of control. If someone misses a lift around there and you yell at them, the next thing you'll probably be looking at is the floor

Look clearly you're frustrated with your training partner. I think you need to as yourself why? I've seen guys do that a lot. Ok, so what? If they don't motivate themselves, it's not my problem. You can't be responsible for other people's level of mental focus.

I guess I feel a responsibility as a stronger powerlifter and experienced mentor.

My other training partner went from benching 135 after his divorce/graduating from college a few months ago and a few days ago he benched 320 @210.


Quit? Yup, the very thought of lifting heavy weights makes me quit. :)

Travis said it best, you are not responsible for other people's motivation.

I wasn't trying to be antagonistic, I just wanted to illustrate you could lift without external motivation.


So true man!!!

Everyone is different so really get to know your people and figure out what motivates them! Most of the x-military guys I train w/ like myself are hardcore... Not quit in them whatsoever! Are you sure he was a Marine? (Hoo Rahh)

At any rate dont give up on him... Maybe PL'ing not for him and he'll find another form of exercise he's passionate about.

My one training partner was a linguist in the Marines and deployed twice on the ground in the desert, and he calls the other guy a fake Marine because he spent most of his time in Virginia.


Do you mean if he misses a lift he just quits on it, and it's up to the spotters to get it back into the racks?

Are you at a private gym or a commercial gym? You have limited control in a commercial gym. If it's a private gym, then you can do whatever you want in terms of rules. You shouldn't have a private gym where everyone trains as a group and then one guy is off doing his own thing all the time.

He quits on spotters and just plain quits. I had to pick him up off the box a few weeks ago because he just quit!

He didn't even try to explode off or anything.


Some people just aren't very intense, they like the idea of lifting weights but don't want to put in the effort.

Good point.


I've never seen a black woman take so much yelling from a skinny white guy in my entire life.

On topic: You can only help people who really want to be helped. Let him figure out when he's ready for that. It's not your job.

I agree the white guy is a total pussy.

I guess I have a paternal instinct to try and help him (whoa, that sounded really gay).


It also varies depending on the lift being done. I personally think different individuals have a differering degree of golgi reflex depending on the muscles under tension.

A good example of this is my wife with her squats. She can grind a deadlift out until she almost passes out---she'll turn red, then turn blue, then fall over, never letting go of the bar. At the same time if she's squatting and she drops her hips below a certian point with a heavy weight she seems to just shut down. She can't lift the weight, no matter what.

As far as the motivation goes, I personally think you need to save the most intense stuff for right before you step on the platform. A little yelling or strong encouragment is fine, but slapping or other physical contact is best saved for the meet. That way you get the maximum effect from it.

What's golgi reflex?

Yelling, berating, humiliation, taunting, hitting, etc. are what makes the gym fun for me, but I see your point.

BigTallOx
05-07-2010, 10:09 AM
My other training partner went from benching 135 after his divorce/graduating from college a few months ago and a few days ago he benched 320 @210.

My one training partner was a linguist in the Marines and deployed twice on the ground in the desert, and he calls the other guy a fake Marine because he spent most of his time in Virginia.


Obviously I could be way off without knowing the entire situation, but perhaps that's part of the problem, i.e. the one guy has no self esteem and the tough one is making it worse. ( Personally, calling him a fake Marine is a little uncalled for especially if it doesn't motivate the other guy to be better. )




I had to pick him up off the box a few weeks ago because he just quit!


Why? I mean why did you? If he wants to be weak let him be. IMHO, it's got to come from within.




I guess I have a paternal instinct to try and help him (whoa, that sounded really gay).


I don't think it sounded gay. It sounds like you want to make the guy better than he himself wants to be. Sounds like you're a great training partner to me.

Sounds like a self esteem problem to me, maybe try focusing on something he can do first.

joey54
05-07-2010, 12:31 PM
We are almost getting into "Cool story bro" territory here. This is simple. If you don't like the way he trains, kick him out of your group. If his friendship is that valuable to you kicking him out isn't an option, you need to have a discussion with him about using lighter weights on his sets so spotters don't get hurt when he gives up. If he isn't going to push himself to your acceptable level, no reason for everyone else to get potentially hurt trying to make him.

JK1
05-07-2010, 03:46 PM
What's golgi reflex?

Yelling, berating, humiliation, taunting, hitting, etc. are what makes the gym fun for me, but I see your point.

Its also known as the inverse myotatic reflex or golgi tendon reflex.

Basically the nerves of a muscle cause it to shut down if its stretched to a point while under tension. Its basically the opposite of the "stretch reflex". The idea is that it prevents severe muscle injury by removing the load from that muscle as its stretched. Like I said, I think different people have different degrees of golgi reflex. Its something that supposedly you can train yourself to get better too---by forcing your body to strain under a heavy load.

Counterweight
05-07-2010, 10:20 PM
Its also known as the inverse myotatic reflex or golgi tendon reflex.

Basically the nerves of a muscle cause it to shut down if its stretched to a point while under tension. Its basically the opposite of the "stretch reflex". The idea is that it prevents severe muscle injury by removing the load from that muscle as its stretched. Like I said, I think different people have different degrees of golgi reflex. Its something that supposedly you can train yourself to get better too---by forcing your body to strain under a heavy load.

Some guys have trained so hard they can ignore it completely. That's where you see guys detaching muscle from bone and stuff.

waynemeat
05-08-2010, 07:09 AM
I get agitated easily when lifting weights. I know this because Ive had my nephew out a few times. While I lift hed start messing about with my equipment and Id just loose the head at him for making noise. If my training partner was shouting at me Id end up going down for murder.