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View Full Version : weight gainer=muscle as long as diet and training are good??



vcjha
05-22-2010, 03:58 AM
I was wondering what maximus' purpose is. Is it to provide extra calories? What I'm really hoping is that if I take maximus along with a good diet and training, it can lead to big gains in muscle. I'd be set with that.

Joe Black
05-22-2010, 11:44 AM
Maximus is perfect for those that want to put on weight more quickly and for those that naturally have a hard time gaining weight. Compared to most weight gainers, the calories in Maximus are high quality (same protein blend as Nitrean).

vcjha
05-22-2010, 12:37 PM
Maximus is perfect for those that want to put on weight more quickly and for those that naturally have a hard time gaining weight. Compared to most weight gainers, the calories in Maximus are high quality (same protein blend as Nitrean).

I take it that's muscle weight right? I'm looking to build muscle quickly with a weight gainer, but my goals have changed. I won't ever pay a lot of money for bodybuilding anymore, will never go over 150 g of protein per day, because my goals have changed. I'm only looking to recomp and end up at the same weight but lower bf%, like 6. The money I spend on bodybuilding, can go to others less unfortunate, people who are lucky to have a house to live in. Call me crazy, but giving $5 to a homeless person doesn't seem to be so much anymore. That $5 could mean so much to them, and just because they're homeless doesn't mean they're not people. I've heard homeless people can be some of the nicest people you'll meet. I'm rambling, but my goal is to do it fast with cheap money and maintain, and the rest of my time and money can go to others who need it, and my future family. Once I have a family, bodybuilding will always be the last thing on my mind, after I have taken care of my family needs.

chevelle2291
05-22-2010, 02:50 PM
I take it that's muscle weight right? I'm looking to build muscle quickly with a weight gainer, but my goals have changed. I won't ever pay a lot of money for bodybuilding anymore, will never go over 150 g of protein per day, because my goals have changed. I'm only looking to recomp and end up at the same weight but lower bf%, like 6. The money I spend on bodybuilding, can go to others less unfortunate, people who are lucky to have a house to live in. Call me crazy, but giving $5 to a homeless person doesn't seem to be so much anymore. That $5 could mean so much to them, and just because they're homeless doesn't mean they're not people. I've heard homeless people can be some of the nicest people you'll meet. I'm rambling, but my goal is to do it fast with cheap money and maintain, and the rest of my time and money can go to others who need it, and my future family. Once I have a family, bodybuilding will always be the last thing on my mind, after I have taken care of my family needs.

I don't really understand what your goals are :scratch:. You want to build muscle, but you don't want to pay a lot of money so you can give more to the homeless, but you're thinking about paying for weight gainer? That's great that you want to help those less fortunate (no saracsm), but IMO, if you wanna recomp (which is a long, long process), you're probably going to need to either drop the carbs or fat in your diet and bump up the protein, so you're probably going to have to eat more than 150g of protein a day. I'd also stay away from the weight gainer. Products like Maximus are great if you're having a hard time getting in enough calories to GAIN WEIGHT! You'd prolly be better off spending your money on Nitrean or cheap protein sources like milk, cottage cheese, lean meats, etc. I hope that helps...

Off Road
05-22-2010, 04:15 PM
You'd be much better served to start a good lifting routine and eating a healthy diet. Not everybody can afford to do things "all-out." Just lift weights for the next several years, keep getting stronger, and eat well. Stop looking for the short cuts and excuses.

vcjha
05-22-2010, 07:43 PM
I don't really understand what your goals are :scratch:. You want to build muscle, but you don't want to pay a lot of money so you can give more to the homeless, but you're thinking about paying for weight gainer? That's great that you want to help those less fortunate (no saracsm), but IMO, if you wanna recomp (which is a long, long process), you're probably going to need to either drop the carbs or fat in your diet and bump up the protein, so you're probably going to have to eat more than 150g of protein a day. I'd also stay away from the weight gainer. Products like Maximus are great if you're having a hard time getting in enough calories to GAIN WEIGHT! You'd prolly be better off spending your money on Nitrean or cheap protein sources like milk, cottage cheese, lean meats, etc. I hope that helps...

I want to build muscle but not as much as I used to want. I'm just becoming more selfless and growing up. I used to tell myself, "I'll do whatever it takes to build muscle, save for all the food I need to eat, and some supplements, and train hard." I was so consumed with it I didn't care about anybody else. My life revolved it around it. Meal times, counting calories, weighing food, doing everything around meal times, spending spare time looking over training and diet information. I will always train hard, and keep my diet in check but the food bill is definitely going to have to decrease. Recomp is still gaining weight. Right now I'm probably around 145 lb muscle, and 165 lb 6% bf, is definitely more muscle than what I have right now. It helps. I just thought weight gainers are a cheaper way to get big as opposed to buying loads of food. Now I care about everybody else, and realize it's stupid to complain about, "Oh damn, I can't buy two bags of chicken breast, I can only buy one," when people would be thankful to have one piece of chicken. I'm not saying, "Pity for the homeless," but the way I see it now, those that are rich should help those in need. I know I'm gonna get flamed for this. I used to be those people who say, "I worked hard for the money. He didn't." But honestly, now I can't imagine working hard for that new tv I want, when so many people are on the streets or suffering right now. That money could help others. If each person tried to help each other, it would go a long way.

vcjha
05-22-2010, 07:47 PM
You'd be much better served to start a good lifting routine and eating a healthy diet. Not everybody can afford to do things "all-out." Just lift weights for the next several years, keep getting stronger, and eat well. Stop looking for the short cuts and excuses.

Only thing I am doing right now. Just looking for cheaper and better ways to do it. (: So as far as training and diet goes, those will never change. Ever. I will always train hard and diet hard. But I just want to reach my body as fast as I can so I can concentrate on better things. I'm not impatient. I just realize bodybuilding is not important for someone's life or death. It's a hobby. It's not just bodybuilding I'm trying to change, it's everything. I've come to realize I really should be content to even have a laptop, have a place to sleep, have money to feed myself, and an awesome house to live in. I hope I'm not offending anybody.

chevelle2291
05-23-2010, 12:58 AM
It's not like it has to be one or the other there bro. You can still gain muscle, buy supplements, time meals, weigh your food out, and still help people. To be honest, you'd probably be better off not just throwing money at the poor and giving your time instead at a soup kitchen, shelter, etc. Then you know that you REALLY helped a homeless person in need instead of just giving money to some guy so he can go buy a six pack of beer or get a fix of crack or something. Not saying all homeless do this, but you get the point. Or actually go buy them food and give it to them. And a recomp is not gaining weight, it's recomposing your body at the same weight with a lower bodyfat percentage. There might be a slight weight increase, but not much.

It's great that you want to focus more on bettering the lives of others, but honestly why the heck are you talking about that on a bodybuilding board? :confused:. If all you want to do is lose bodyfat and stay at your current weight, stay at maintenance calories, increase the protein and decrease either carbs or fat, and increase your cardio sessions. If you want to gain weight (read: muscle), then eat above maintenance, eat lots of protein as well as lots of carbs, and don't do so much cardio that it interferes with your gains. No one here can tell you whether or not a mass gainer will put muscle on you, that depends on many factors. I wouldn't be taking mass gainer if I was primarily looking to lose bodyfat. It's going to be very hard for you to lose significant bodyfat while gaining significant muscle.

I'd be careful about your word choice also man. There are many people on this board who have "grown up" and still participate in elite bodybuilding competitions, powerlifting meets, etc. Many of those people are also selfless, etc. I know it was not your intent to offend, but the reason why you are posting about the benefits of being altruistic on a BB website is not obvious to me.

To kill this thread, don't buy the mass gainer if you're primarily interested in losing bodyfat (recomping). Stick to a quality whey or casein or mix product (nitrean). If you're trying to gain weight, which usually means you are at least gaining some muscle if you are training, then you can buy the mass gainer if you want, but you could still get most of those calories from whole foods.

Joe Black
05-23-2010, 01:10 AM
I would just use Nitrean as the guys said.

chris mason
05-23-2010, 08:43 PM
Ok, now for the best advice :).

If you want to get as lean as possible it is NECESSARY to retain as much muscle as you can while simultaneously losing body fat. Very few products on the market can do this effectively. RESULTS from AtLarge CAN! I personally have used it for the exact goal you speak of. I have never used anything that worked even close to as well as RESULTS did and that is the stone cold truth.

So, if you want the best bang for your buck skip EVERYTHING but RESULTS. I have said it before here and elsewhere. If I could only take one supplement it would be RESULTS.

So, get some RESULTS train and eat properly and thank me later. In the interim, keep helping the less fortunate.

Chris

vcjha
05-23-2010, 10:27 PM
It's not like it has to be one or the other there bro. You can still gain muscle, buy supplements, time meals, weigh your food out, and still help people. To be honest, you'd probably be better off not just throwing money at the poor and giving your time instead at a soup kitchen, shelter, etc. Then you know that you REALLY helped a homeless person in need instead of just giving money to some guy so he can go buy a six pack of beer or get a fix of crack or something. Not saying all homeless do this, but you get the point. Or actually go buy them food and give it to them. And a recomp is not gaining weight, it's recomposing your body at the same weight with a lower bodyfat percentage. There might be a slight weight increase, but not much.

It's great that you want to focus more on bettering the lives of others, but honestly why the heck are you talking about that on a bodybuilding board? :confused:. If all you want to do is lose bodyfat and stay at your current weight, stay at maintenance calories, increase the protein and decrease either carbs or fat, and increase your cardio sessions. If you want to gain weight (read: muscle), then eat above maintenance, eat lots of protein as well as lots of carbs, and don't do so much cardio that it interferes with your gains. No one here can tell you whether or not a mass gainer will put muscle on you, that depends on many factors. I wouldn't be taking mass gainer if I was primarily looking to lose bodyfat. It's going to be very hard for you to lose significant bodyfat while gaining significant muscle.

I'd be careful about your word choice also man. There are many people on this board who have "grown up" and still participate in elite bodybuilding competitions, powerlifting meets, etc. Many of those people are also selfless, etc. I know it was not your intent to offend, but the reason why you are posting about the benefits of being altruistic on a BB website is not obvious to me.

To kill this thread, don't buy the mass gainer if you're primarily interested in losing bodyfat (recomping). Stick to a quality whey or casein or mix product (nitrean). If you're trying to gain weight, which usually means you are at least gaining some muscle if you are training, then you can buy the mass gainer if you want, but you could still get most of those calories from whole foods.
Great reply. I didn't necessarily mean just giving to the homeless. It was more of a realization that I need to stop whining if I can't get that bag of chicken breasts. I just meant bodybuilding shouldn't be so important, that I become selfish, so selfish, that I plan my life AROUND BODYBUILDING. I'm sure most of you have learned to plan bodybuilding around your life. I've yet to do that. I'm just trying to become more selfless that's all.

vcjha
05-23-2010, 10:41 PM
Ok, now for the best advice :).

If you want to get as lean as possible it is NECESSARY to retain as much muscle as you can while simultaneously losing body fat. Very few products on the market can do this effectively. RESULTS from AtLarge CAN! I personally have used it for the exact goal you speak of. I have never used anything that worked even close to as well as RESULTS did and that is the stone cold truth.

So, if you want the best bang for your buck skip EVERYTHING but RESULTS. I have said it before here and elsewhere. If I could only take one supplement it would be RESULTS.

So, get some RESULTS train and eat properly and thank me later. In the interim, keep helping the less fortunate.

Chris
Thanks so much. It really really was the best advice. Hmm, seems you have done it yourself. Anything specific you can recommend to me as far as diet and training goes? One thing that sucks about results...no protein WAHHHH

chevelle2291
05-23-2010, 11:38 PM
Thanks so much. It really really was the best advice. Hmm, seems you have done it yourself. Anything specific you can recommend to me as far as diet and training goes? One thing that sucks about results...no protein WAHHHH

V, you don't NEED results. Really, you don't. Just get your diet and training in order, buy Nitrean if you want, and get to work. Good luck man.

vcjha
05-23-2010, 11:48 PM
V, you don't NEED results. Really, you don't. Just get your diet and training in order, buy Nitrean if you want, and get to work. Good luck man.

I've been getting to work. Just need help on constructing a diet. Right now, I'm only making sure my diet comes from healthy foods. Can't really have an awesome diet right now and that's why I posted: because I need help constructing a diet or getting some specific guidelines within a $50 budget.

chevelle2291
05-24-2010, 02:29 PM
I've been getting to work. Just need help on constructing a diet. Right now, I'm only making sure my diet comes from healthy foods. Can't really have an awesome diet right now and that's why I posted: because I need help constructing a diet or getting some specific guidelines within a $50 budget.

Hmmm...okay, well if I were you I would first start a journal here because a lot more people with more experience than me will pop in. But, if I was on a budget, I'd be picking up:
Eggs
Chicken Breast
Cheap oatmeal
Lots of Rice
Peanut Butter
Bananas
Lean beef (when cheap)
Whole Grain Bread

You should be able to get a week's worth of food for around $50 or so if you shop smart. What kind of macros are you shooting for? Some people do a (percentages of calories) 40protein/30carbs/30fat. Others do 50carbs/30protein/20fat (what I do). There are many macro combos that can work, it just depends on what YOUR body responds to.

Honestly though, if you're having trouble finding quality food to buy for under $50, you shouldn't be looking at supplements. If I were you, I'd buy a cheap protein powder (not necessarily Nitrean), a multivitamin, and fish oil. That's it. Spend the rest of your money on food. Products like Results aren't worth it if the rest of your nutrition is ****.

Tom would prolly be able to help more in this department.

chris mason
05-24-2010, 09:12 PM
Thanks so much. It really really was the best advice. Hmm, seems you have done it yourself. Anything specific you can recommend to me as far as diet and training goes? One thing that sucks about results...no protein WAHHHH

Protein is not an ergogen per se. I think that is a huge confusion about it. It can help your training, but if you have to go with just one supplement you want the one that will have a direct effect on size and strength and nothing does that better than RESULTS. Protein can't even come close.

In terms of diet, that is a long story and perhaps a future article.

chris mason
05-24-2010, 09:14 PM
V, you don't NEED results. Really, you don't. Just get your diet and training in order, buy Nitrean if you want, and get to work. Good luck man.

Chevelle,

WHY would you recommend he get Nitrean instead of RESULTS? The fact that you did shows that you should not be recommending anything because you don't understand the true nature of either.

chris mason
05-24-2010, 09:23 PM
Hmmm...okay, well if I were you I would first start a journal here because a lot more people with more experience than me will pop in. But, if I was on a budget, I'd be picking up:
Eggs
Chicken Breast
Cheap oatmeal
Lots of Rice
Peanut Butter
Bananas
Lean beef (when cheap)
Whole Grain Bread

You should be able to get a week's worth of food for around $50 or so if you shop smart. What kind of macros are you shooting for? Some people do a (percentages of calories) 40protein/30carbs/30fat. Others do 50carbs/30protein/20fat (what I do). There are many macro combos that can work, it just depends on what YOUR body responds to.

Honestly though, if you're having trouble finding quality food to buy for under $50, you shouldn't be looking at supplements. If I were you, I'd buy a cheap protein powder (not necessarily Nitrean), a multivitamin, and fish oil. That's it. Spend the rest of your money on food. Products like Results aren't worth it if the rest of your nutrition is ****.

Tom would prolly be able to help more in this department.

Ok, now you REALLY are starting to irk me. The 3 supplements you have recommended will do little for size OR strength. Protein is viable only in the sense it is used to replace food sources. Protein by itself will do almost nothing for your training unless you are terribly deficient in its consumption and that aint happenin in the Western world. Supplemental protein IS of use for post-workout purposes, but if push comes to shove one can certainly consume a meal and get a very similar effect. Supplemental protein by itself essentially boils down to a supplement of convenience in that it provides a high quality, low calorie source of protein. It has no magical properties not found in foods with similar forms of protein.

Creatine, beta alanine, and HMB, on the other hand, all have proven ergogenic effects. That means they will actually add muscle and strength if used in combination with resistance training. You can't realistically get ergogenic levels of any of them from diet alone. THAT is the point.

chevelle2291
05-31-2010, 11:40 PM
Chevelle,

WHY would you recommend he get Nitrean instead of RESULTS? The fact that you did shows that you should not be recommending anything because you don't understand the true nature of either.

Perhaps I don't, I don't pretend to be an expert, I just figured I'd give the advice I've been told here and at other boards, which is that diet should always come before supplements in order of importance. My basis for recommending Nitrean is that IF his diet is low in protein, which may or may not be the case, Nitrean would help to fill that void. Perhaps I shouldn't have recommended one supp over the other, but when I hear "no real diet" I think "lack of protein."

After reading over the RESULTs page carefully, it seems that RESULTS would increase his performance in the gym, so perhaps it will help him get bigger and/or stronger quicker, but you can't grow if you don't have proper nutrition, and that's why I recommended Nitrean because if his protein intake is low it'll be harder for him to gain muscle.

chevelle2291
06-01-2010, 12:11 AM
Ok, now you REALLY are starting to irk me. The 3 supplements you have recommended will do little for size OR strength.

I don't really understand why I am urking you, but that wasn't my intent. I was simply making recommendations off of what I've experienced to be beneficial. Honestly, I saw the OP as just another new trainee who would be wasting his money on supps that could be better spent on quality food. My recommendations were made in order to steer him away from some of the overhyped products out there (sugary mass gainers--yes, I know Maximus is NOT one of those sugary products) and move him towards the tried-and-true products like whey, creatine, multivitamins, fish oil, etc.

I didn't recommend the multivitamin and the fish oil from a muscle building perspective, I recommended it on the basis that the multivitamin will help with various chemical processes in the body and the fish oil can help with things like joint pain, inflammation, arthritis, heart health, etc. These are just damn good supplements to take for overall health and well being, and some of those benefits will likely translate to more progress in the weight room be it from higher energy levels, lack of joint pain so no setbacks, etc.

I recommended the whey on the basis that it can be used to quickly get protein to the muscles after a workout and that it can also be used to increase daily protein intake. In that sense, protein would help him gain muscle, but as you stated this is only if his intake is low, which it very well could be if he eats Ramen all day like some kids I go to school with (unlikely). But I understand the point you were making, most people with relatively healthy diets should be getting enough protein to facilitate some growth.

I'm not trying to get in an argument here, Chris. Obviously, you know way more about supps and training than I do, and if you say RESULTs is the only supp he should be buying if money is tight, then I believe you. If you look at my responses, I spend most of my time talking about the importance of a proper diet for muscle growth and I tried to stress supplements as being supplementary and extra to proper nutrition. I think you'll agree with me that diet is more important than supplements for muscle growth?

:hello::bow:

chris mason
06-01-2010, 06:25 PM
There are too many ifs, I was only addressing the supplement aspect. Yes, of course, he needs to be consuming sufficient calories overall in order to get bigger and stronger. He most likely isn't at this time. In addition, he needs to train properly and that is a whole other can of worms.

Tell you what, good advice at the moment would be for him to read the HCT-12 program and give that a run. He can get RESULTS to use in conjunction with the program and I am willing to bet he will be VERY satisfied.

chris mason
06-01-2010, 06:25 PM
By the way, you irked me that day, today is another day :).