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thewicked
05-26-2010, 02:55 PM
i can't seem to find what makes a raw elite class 198? what's a big 198 raw total?

MarcusWild
05-26-2010, 03:11 PM
http://www.powerliftingwatch.com/node/1793

I think the raw classification is the same in all feds. It's 1471 for 198.

Tom Mutaffis
05-26-2010, 04:55 PM
I was going to say that a 'big' RAW total for a 198 would be somewhere around 1,500 lbs.

Assuming that the lifter is fairly balanced this would break down to about a 500 lbs squat (2.5X BW), 400 lbs bench (2X BW), and 600 deadlift (3X BW).

thewicked
05-27-2010, 05:23 AM
well that's the goal

breaking the 1500lb raw barrier with a 1550 total

ScottYard
05-27-2010, 08:00 AM
A raw elite total for 198 is 1731. Elite totals were created back in the day when gear wasnt around.

bojackson
05-27-2010, 08:24 AM
Thats nearly a 300pd difference. which is correct. powerlifting watch said 1471, scott you said over 1700. are the numbers on powerlifting watch wrong?

ScottYard
05-27-2010, 08:48 AM
the numbers on powerlifting watch were created a year or 2 ago for by people in a certain fed that didnt like the original elite numbers so they adjusted them so they could call themselves elite. The real elite numbers were created by the aau back in the 70's then picked up by the USPF and other feds.

bojackson
05-27-2010, 09:04 AM
Scott,
Where can I find those numbers. Hell I thought i could get elite @ 242 with 1607, but now i may have to readjust my goals. Thanx for ruining my day! :-)

ScottYard
05-27-2010, 09:17 AM
LOL,

Don get me wrong. Those new raw totals do exist, and if you really believe those numbers are elite go after them. To me it is like winning the world championship in a fed that only exists in one state. Technically you won but did you really LOL.

Search USPF elite totals on google. It will pop right up

Tom Mutaffis
05-27-2010, 09:17 AM
Scott's post brings up something that I believe has become a big problem with powerlifting; the number of different federations and classifications have skewed things a bit because of the large number of record holders, champions, and 'elite' lifters.

My thoughts on a "big" (impressive) RAW total for a 198 are 1500+, but for a lifter to be "Elite" I think that would have to go one step higher. The "Elite" category should be reserved for a small group of people (perhaps the top 10-25 lifters in the country/world at that time).

A 1700 total would be 600/450/650 - very strong RAW lifts for a 198 but not out of reach for the "top" guys..

ScottYard
05-27-2010, 09:56 AM
Scott's post brings up something that I believe has become a big problem with powerlifting; the number of different federations and classifications have skewed things a bit because of the large number of record holders, champions, and 'elite' lifters.

My thoughts on a "big" (impressive) RAW total for a 198 are 1500+, but for a lifter to be "Elite" I think that would have to go one step higher. The "Elite" category should be reserved for a small group of people (perhaps the top 10-25 lifters in the country/world at that time).

A 1700 total would be 600/450/650 - very strong RAW lifts for a 198 but not out of reach for the "top" guys..


Your right Tom, I didnt take into consideration the gap between a top 50 lifter in the country and a top 5-10 lifter. A 1500 pund raw total at 198 would be very very strong.

As for these new raw totals. I just roll my eyes. I have a big issue with the so called new raw elite totals. To me elite is elite and thats it. If some feds want to create new numbers call it something different.

When I decided to start lifting without equipment I set out to a goal to hit an elite total. WHen elite was made it was only supposed to be for 2-3 lifters in the world per year to achieve. My first meet I totaled 1940. After that I had a bunch of guys congratulating me on my elite raw total. I was very confused b/c elite as I knew it for 275 is 1946 and I knew i was 5 lbs short. I was 5 lbs short but then some one told me Elite was like 1600 something. Then I realized some feds created these new bogus numbers. To me thats bull **** b/c at the time I wasnt elite and I knew I wasnt. My next raw meet I went 1980 and totaled elite 275. I finally felt liek I could say I was an elite lifter. I felt if I went around saying I was elite at 275 that first meet when I fell short that I would just be lying to my self.


I just realized how long winded that was. I guess its obvious that I have issues with this.

IronDiggy
05-27-2010, 10:13 AM
Scott,
Where can I find those numbers. Hell I thought i could get elite @ 242 with 1607, but now i may have to readjust my goals. Thanx for ruining my day! :-)

Same boat. New goal. 1886.5 Raw.

SEOINAGE
05-27-2010, 12:33 PM
That's cool if you want to hit a particular title. But for me I just set my own goals, and not worry about the other things. At this point I'm not aspiring to be within the best or at the top, but I want a 1600 raw total, and that is what I am working towards.

ScottYard
05-27-2010, 12:49 PM
That's cool if you want to hit a particular title. But for me I just set my own goals, and not worry about the other things. At this point I'm not aspiring to be within the best or at the top, but I want a 1600 raw total, and that is what I am working towards.

I agree 100%, set your own goals.

knicks6002
05-27-2010, 12:53 PM
I was going to say that a 'big' RAW total for a 198 would be somewhere around 1,500 lbs.

Assuming that the lifter is fairly balanced this would break down to about a 500 lbs squat (2.5X BW), 400 lbs bench (2X BW), and 600 deadlift (3X BW).

Hey Tom, are those the standard multipliers for all body weights when calculating a 'goal' raw total? For example, I'm about 150. If I use the 2.5x for squats, 2x for bench, and 3x for deadlifts, I get an added total of 1,125. Is that the number I should be shooting for then?

IronDiggy
05-27-2010, 01:05 PM
Hey Tom, are those the standard multipliers for all body weights when calculating a 'goal' raw total? For example, I'm about 150. If I use the 2.5x for squats, 2x for bench, and 3x for deadlifts, I get an added total of 1,125. Is that the number I should be shooting for then?

How much do you want to lift? That should be your goal.

Tom Mutaffis
05-27-2010, 01:53 PM
Hey Tom, are those the standard multipliers for all body weights when calculating a 'goal' raw total? For example, I'm about 150. If I use the 2.5x for squats, 2x for bench, and 3x for deadlifts, I get an added total of 1,125. Is that the number I should be shooting for then?

Your goals should be set based on your current strength levels and your objectives in powerlifting. If you primary goal is to be in better shape or more muscular and you use powerlifting to gauge strength gains then your goals may be different from someone who is simply looking to lift the highest amount of weight possible.

For each individual lift I would say that the figures that I lifted are considered "good", regardless of bodyweight. Anyone who is squatting 2.5 BW, benching 2XBW, or pulling 3XBW would be considered 'strong' by most standards.

Most people will set goals based on every 100 lbs or adding additional weight plates. For example if your current bench press is 190 lbs your first goal might be to hit 200 lbs, and then from there the next goal could be 225 lbs.

Hope this helps.

joey54
05-27-2010, 05:04 PM
Your goals should be set based on your current strength levels and your objectives in powerlifting. If you primary goal is to be in better shape or more muscular and you use powerlifting to gauge strength gains then your goals may be different from someone who is simply looking to lift the highest amount of weight possible.

For each individual lift I would say that the figures that I lifted are considered "good", regardless of bodyweight. Anyone who is squatting 2.5 BW, benching 2XBW, or pulling 3XBW would be considered 'strong' by most standards.

Most people will set goals based on every 100 lbs or adding additional weight plates. For example if your current bench press is 190 lbs your first goal might be to hit 200 lbs, and then from there the next goal could be 225 lbs.

Hope this helps.

It doesn't get any simpler than that.

bojackson
05-27-2010, 06:24 PM
Scott has totally ruined any ambition I have for lifting for the next 11 hours.......:)

hulk242
05-27-2010, 07:47 PM
Good input here. I agree with you Scott. I think that the elite standards are watered down. I knew to truly be considered elite, I would have to hit the regular total while going raw. I did it last meet and now feel that my elite is not a farce.

NickAus
05-28-2010, 04:14 AM
Yep Im with Scott, Elite is Elite (and very hard to reach) and I don't think adjusting the numbers is right.

thewicked
05-28-2010, 07:17 AM
I'm in agreement with this..

reading that elite was so low just didn't seem to make it very "elite" to me. It didnt' seem like it would be that hard to work for and really put you in a class of lifters that is hard to obtain. The 1700+ total...now THAT is definately something I will have to work a career to do and would feel just as crowning an accomplishment as pulling 700, winning a national event, etc.

I hope I don't ruffle any feathers...but 1470+ total is a joke at 198 to be considered a strong person. There's strong..and then there's world class. An elite ranking is one you had to sacrifice for. Blood, sweat, injuries, dates, meals, careers, etc. if need be to be considered one of the best. If you want something bad enough you've got to be willing to do what it takes to get it

Sean S
05-28-2010, 10:31 AM
So do you think 1470+ is "strong" at 198? I think 1470+ at 198 is strong, but certainly not world class or truly elite.

LouPac
06-03-2010, 06:40 PM
I'm in agreement with this..

reading that elite was so low just didn't seem to make it very "elite" to me. It didnt' seem like it would be that hard to work for and really put you in a class of lifters that is hard to obtain. The 1700+ total...now THAT is definately something I will have to work a career to do and would feel just as crowning an accomplishment as pulling 700, winning a national event, etc.

I hope I don't ruffle any feathers...but 1470+ total is a joke at 198 to be considered a strong person. There's strong..and then there's world class. An elite ranking is one you had to sacrifice for. Blood, sweat, injuries, dates, meals, careers, etc. if need be to be considered one of the best. If you want something bad enough you've got to be willing to do what it takes to get it

Oh come on man, 1470 is extremely strong. Are you anywhere near the best, no way, but anyone that can get near a 1500lbs total is stronger than 99% of the people in this world. Let's try to keep things in perspective here.

rinse
06-03-2010, 07:07 PM
Yep Im with Scott, Elite is Elite (and very hard to reach) and I don't think adjusting the numbers is right.

If you really think about it it gets quite ******ed. The elite numbers was for totals with just wraps. Then when gear advanced the elite total stayed the same. Then when raw lifting(wraps) starts to become more popular people sees the need to get new lower elite totals for that. If anything standards should be higher today than what they were in the 70s not lower.

rinse
06-03-2010, 07:10 PM
Oh come on man, 1470 is extremely strong. Are you anywhere near the best, no way, but anyone that can get near a 1500lbs total is stronger than 99% of the people in this world. Let's try to keep things in perspective here.

It's called ELITE for a reason.

Sean S
06-03-2010, 07:22 PM
I think the disagreement here is not about elite, but what constitutes "strong". I still consider a 1470+ raw at 198 is strong, but not elite. I guess some people only consider someone strong if they have reached elite.

LouPac
06-03-2010, 07:33 PM
I was going to say that a 'big' RAW total for a 198 would be somewhere around 1,500 lbs.




Your right Tom, I didnt take into consideration the gap between a top 50 lifter in the country and a top 5-10 lifter. A 1500 pund raw total at 198 would be very very strong.



I'm just going to quote what these two very strong lifters posted. Elite is Elite, but you cannot say that a 1500lb total is not strong.

rinse
06-03-2010, 07:53 PM
I think the disagreement here is not about elite, but what constitutes "strong". I still consider a 1470+ raw at 198 is strong, but not elite. I guess some people only consider someone strong if they have reached elite.

1500 at 198 is strong.

KoSh
06-03-2010, 08:22 PM
Damn. You guys have extremely high expectations for "strong"

mikesbench
06-03-2010, 08:36 PM
This really makes me think about the 2 "elite" totals I've hit, both with multiply equipment, and I've never ranked any higher than 10th on the powerlifting USA top 100. I mean I was very happy with #10,but I wouldn't say it made me "one of the best" in my weight class; which is what "elite" should truly be. So I'd say having seperate "elites" for raw, single ply, and multiply makes sense; but essentially I think a better guide would be looking at the powerlifting watch lifter rankings; If you make #5 or above for the year in you class with your type of equipment I'd say that's elite.

The other issue here though is that there used to only be 1 "style" of lifting, so this means that powerlifting is divided at least in thirds (not sure what % of lifters compete in which categories); so basically if you took the top 2 raw, 2 single ply and 2 multiply you "might" have the 6 "top" lifters in that weight class ( which would be elite overall), this kind of makes sense when you look at ranking lists. There are always 2 or 3 guys that are just leaps and bounds ahead of the next few guys on the list.

I guess I'm just rambling my thoughts, but does this make sense to others?