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naites
06-12-2010, 09:05 PM
If you are on HRT using the androgel or the test shots will you fail a drug test at a tested meet? Just curious what the old men do that require HRT.

Thanks,

Notorious
06-12-2010, 09:19 PM
Yes, I'm pretty sure you would fail. People on HRT compete in untested feds.

Sean S
06-12-2010, 09:23 PM
You may or may not fail a drug test depending on your dose and method of testing. It's technically against the rules in many drug-tested federations. The easiest solution is probably to compete in an untest federations.

naites
06-12-2010, 09:24 PM
That is what I thought. I just see so many guys on HRT that compete in tested feds. They just say that they are "leveling the playing fields". Which I think is BS. Cause now you have old men at around 800 - 1200 test levels when I bet most average under 40 guys are between 300-600 if they actually get some blood work done.

But these guys usually don't lift a whole lot so they assume they won't be tested anyways.

Random meet drug tests are the way it should be IMO =P

Ryano
06-13-2010, 05:46 AM
I'm on HRT and I still compete in the WABDL. In the other feds that I compete in(UPA & APF), I go nontested. When I began HRT I called Gus Rethwisch(owner of WABDL) to advise him that I was not going to compete in WABDL anymore, since I was on HRT and didn't feel like it was fair. I consider Gus a friend and was just letting him know why I wouldn't be competing in his fed anymore. He basically said that he didn't care if I was on doctor prescribed HRT as long as I could pass the steroid specific & T/E ratio drug test. Gus has tested me 5-6 times since and I pass. I don't know what the levels of "T" are, but evidently my dosage is below the level to fail the T/E ratio part of the test. I also know of a few other older lifters on HRT that still compete in tested feds but they usually don't get tested. I personally have mixed feelings about it. I know I'm not "natural" but I'm not "jacked" either. Does it help my lifts? That's hard to determine. I was benching over 700 before I began HRT at 52 years old. My best lift, two years later, is 749. PR's are hard to come by, but maybe without the HRT my #'s would be lower.

Tom Mutaffis
06-13-2010, 07:25 AM
If you are on HRT using the androgel or the test shots will you fail a drug test at a tested meet? Just curious what the old men do that require HRT.

Thanks,

It depends on which test they do.

If they test for ratio then you might pass; depending on timing and doses of your HRT. If they test for metabolites of each compound then you will fail.

mastermonster
06-13-2010, 11:11 AM
You would pass if you are on the docs dose to keep you at normal, and as long as you didn't take other OTC products that could raise it farther like DHEA or OTC products that are on the banned list and would show up. The Testosterone used in HRT is identicle to your body's own testosterone. Not like dianobol or anavar that are altered. If the T/E ratio is within the accepted limit. There should be no 'foriegn subtance evident. As to wheather your not 'natural' that's a matter of opinion I guess. HRT is a health choice. So is insulin for diabetics (also a hormone deficiency). The health decline without one is more rapid than the other but just as inevitable. Can you lift more on HRT or insulin than without? eventually yes? It is not 'natural' to take outside insulin or outside testosterone, but both improve health and quality of life if needed. I care more about my health and quality of life. I am on HRT. I choose to lift APF 'untested' pro level because that's where I'm competitive and I use OTC products to boost my performance that are on the banned list in Tested meets. If I only used my HRT I'd have no problem entering a tested meet such as WABDL. Each competitor has the option to have their hormone deficiency treated or not...just as a diabetic does. The only reason I don't still compete there is I preferr open back shirts and WABDL doesn't allow them and I prefer squatting (my best lift) at meets.

naites
06-13-2010, 11:52 AM
HRT testosterone is not natural. It should leave an ester that is detectable. Anavar and dbol don't raise your testosterone levels. In fact they and other steroids lower test production. Only testosterone increases testosterone levels.

Since test is on the banned list of stuff you should fail the test everytime. But it sounds like friends of Gus get an exception :/

bojackson
06-13-2010, 12:39 PM
thanks naites.......go ask Gus about the "exceptions" you speak of...

ThomasG
06-13-2010, 01:01 PM
There was a huge thread on this already. I've spoken with an AAPF judge about this as well. In some feds you can compete legally and pass the drug test while on HRT.

Ryano
06-13-2010, 01:08 PM
But it sounds like friends of Gus get an exception :/

Gus is not making any "exception" for me, other than the fact he tests me at almost every meet I compete at. This costs him about $100 per test. He even tested me at a meet that I got 2nd place in. Maybe that's the exception. So if you think he is bending the rules for me, you are wrong.

ThomasG
06-13-2010, 01:35 PM
Gus is not making any "exception" for me, other than the fact he tests me at almost every meet I compete at. This costs him about $100 per test. He even tested me at a meet that I got 2nd place in. Maybe that's the exception. So if you think he is bending the rules for me, you are wrong.

Whatever, cheater.











(not srs)

Rugby Dad
06-13-2010, 05:14 PM
HRT testosterone is not natural. It should leave an ester that is detectable. Anavar and dbol don't raise your testosterone levels. In fact they and other steroids lower test production. Only testosterone increases testosterone levels.

Since test is on the banned list of stuff you should fail the test everytime. But it sounds like friends of Gus get an exception :/

you sure this is correct?^
surely AAS raise T levels, yes they do decrease production because the body detects all that foreign T in the blood stream so the testes stop producing.

naites
06-13-2010, 05:58 PM
uh yea I am sure dude. Why else do the guys use testosterone injections as a base to all their stacks. If you only take anavar, dbol, or whatever your test level will be lower than natural.

Gus is giving you guys an exception because you are using a banned substance. It's called testosterone. Who cares how much. You are using it. Not a natural lifter anymore. Need to lift in un-tested feds.

Ryano
06-13-2010, 06:22 PM
Naites, I already said that I partially agree with you. I'm not "Natural" but I'm not jacked either. Gus isn't making any exception for me or anyone else, as other older guys are also on HRT lifting there and as long as they pass the "test" it's cool. Nobody's T/E is higher than anyone elses so what's the problem? As Mastermonster said, HRT is for life quality issues, not lifting. Sounds like you may have gotten "spanked" by an older guy and don't like it. Just get back in the gym and move some iron. Good luck to you.

ThomasG
06-13-2010, 06:35 PM
uh yea I am sure dude. Why else do the guys use testosterone injections as a base to all their stacks. If you only take anavar, dbol, or whatever your test level will be lower than natural.

Gus is giving you guys an exception because you are using a banned substance. It's called testosterone. Who cares how much. You are using it. Not a natural lifter anymore. Need to lift in un-tested feds.

]Wrong. I'm on TRT and spoke with two judges about it. She and he both said as long as my t/e ratio doesn't exceed the limits I'm fine. It's even possible to exceed the AAPF ratio naturally and fail the test. The judge said her natural 16 year old son came very close to failing.

mastermonster
06-13-2010, 07:47 PM
]Wrong. I'm on TRT and spoke with two judges about it. She and he both said as long as my t/e ratio doesn't exceed the limits I'm fine. It's even possible to exceed the AAPF ratio naturally and fail the test. The judge said her natural 16 year old son came very close to failing.

Very true. My doc told me it is pretty common for some males (a lot of black males especially) to have over a 1000 blood level of testosterone. Where clinical normal is 300-800. That's probably why the NFL has a limit of 10:1 testosterone to epitestosterone ratio where most powerlifting tested feds have 4:1 to 6:1; depending on the fed.

naites
06-13-2010, 10:16 PM
Who cares what your ratio is. If you take a substance on the banned list that is a fail. If that were the case I could jack up on some Anavar and have a legal ratio and pass the test.
Simple fact is that the synthetic testosterone hormone is a banned substance. Your bodies didn't make it. The gel or injection did.

naites
06-13-2010, 10:18 PM
]Wrong. I'm on TRT .
How can a 20 year be on TRT? Very suspicious. Have you ever used or taken roids or pro-hormones? I have heard of 30 year olds on it, but 20! Your endocrine system doesn't even fully develop until about 25 or so.

Also, the judges have no idea on how the tests are ran. I wouldn't go by what they said. If you were actually tested at that meet you would have failed. The testosterone esters can stay in the system for up to 3 months and is detectable.

mastermonster
06-13-2010, 10:49 PM
Roger; I think your right. Sounds like somebody got spanked by one of us old farts! LOL!

JK1
06-13-2010, 10:54 PM
Very true. My doc told me it is pretty common for some males (a lot of black males especially) to have over a 1000 blood level of testosterone. Where clinical normal is 300-800. That's probably why the NFL has a limit of 10:1 testosterone to epitestosterone ratio where most powerlifting tested feds have 4:1 to 6:1; depending on the fed.

The 4:1 and even 6:1 ratios are somewhat ridiculous in my opinion. My understanding is its not uncommon for healthy teenage males or males in their early 20's to have T:E's higher than that..

naites
06-13-2010, 11:01 PM
Roger; I think your right. Sounds like somebody got spanked by one of us old farts! LOL!
Has nothing to do with age as you can see this 20 year old above is on TRT. LOL! Kinda hard to get spanked in powerlifting when you are the only guy in your division most the time unless at a nat/world meet.

ThomasG
06-14-2010, 05:53 AM
How can a 20 year be on TRT? Very suspicious. Have you ever used or taken roids or pro-hormones? I have heard of 30 year olds on it, but 20! Your endocrine system doesn't even fully develop until about 25 or so.

Also, the judges have no idea on how the tests are ran. I wouldn't go by what they said. If you were actually tested at that meet you would have failed. The testosterone esters can stay in the system for up to 3 months and is detectable.

Nope never. Never touched AAS or any kind of pro hormone/test booster. I was just delt a bad card. I started HRT at age 19 probably should have at age 18.

You must have gotten spanked by an old fart. Judges have no idea huh? lol there is no convincing you. Take anavar and raise your level by 100 see if it does anything..(It wont) There's a huge difference between AAS and HRT.

naites
06-14-2010, 07:59 AM
There's a huge difference between AAS and HRT.
Of coarse there is a big difference. But the only difference is the dosage. You ARE still taking a banned substance called "testosterone". Who cares how much. Go look at the APF website; http://worldpowerliftingcongress.com/banned%20list.htm Tell me that testosterone is not on the list.

How many times did you actually see a doc about low test? The results can vary by diet, sleep, time of day, etc. Also, how low were you? 18 years old just sounds insane. That's right after puberty!

ThomasG
06-14-2010, 08:09 AM
Of coarse there is a big difference. But the only difference is the dosage. You ARE still taking a banned substance called "testosterone". Who cares how much. Go look at the APF website; http://worldpowerliftingcongress.com/banned%20list.htm Tell me that testosterone is not on the list.

How many times did you actually see a doc about low test? The results can vary by diet, sleep, time of day, etc. Also, how low were you? 18 years old just sounds insane. That's right after puberty!


Yea it is very odd I agree. I saw a doc about it several times. I did develop at a very early and was pretty much done with puberty before age 18. I was interested in girls and grew facial hair and got bigger than everyone else at an earlier age.

Even with TRT my test levels are still below some of 20 year old males, yet according to you're knowledge I'd be cheating going up against them when they have higher T level than I. I see you have your mind made up and there is no convincing you I have my own opinion and I'll leave it at that.

icedutah
06-14-2010, 08:55 AM
Most guys I have heard about that have failed meet drug tests were older guys on TRT. Who knows, guess they could have been using other AAS as well though on top of the TRT. But my guess is that it's the synthetic testosterone from TRT (whether gel or the shot) that causes the fail.

brauny96
06-14-2010, 10:38 AM
Yea it is very odd I agree. I saw a doc about it several times. I did develop at a very early and was pretty much done with puberty before age 18. I was interested in girls and grew facial hair and got bigger than everyone else at an earlier age.

Even with TRT my test levels are still below some of 20 year old males, yet according to you're knowledge I'd be cheating going up against them when they have higher T level than I. I see you have your mind made up and there is no convincing you I have my own opinion and I'll leave it at that.

What were your symptoms of low T?

Ryano
06-14-2010, 12:01 PM
Go look at the APF website; http://worldpowerliftingcongress.com/banned%20list.htm Tell me that testosterone is not on the list.

How many times did you actually see a doc about low test? The results can vary by diet, sleep, time of day, etc. Also, how low were you? 18 years old just sounds insane. That's right after puberty!

That is a banned list for the AAPF, not APF. APF is non tested. Why all the doubt about ThomasG's HRT. He's on it, so what. Why does it matter to you?

gatorman2k6
06-14-2010, 01:19 PM
naites, why do you care so much? You asked if you would fail and you got your answer from several people. Why do you then accuse them of cheating when they passed the test and have told officials they are on it? In my opinion, if you don't fail, you aren't cheating. And if you ain't cheating, you ain't trying, lol!

naites
06-14-2010, 06:47 PM
What were your symptoms of low T?
HEHE he was probably scared of a number. That was the symptom. What did you test at BTW? 500?

ThomasG
06-14-2010, 08:37 PM
HEHE he was probably scared of a number. That was the symptom. What did you test at BTW? 500?

This post shows your character and immaturity. You really have no idea what you're talking about. What doctor in their right mind would prescribe HRT to someone in the 500's? Some guys are lucky to get into the 500's on HRT.

Welcome to my ignore list.

mastermonster
06-15-2010, 11:08 PM
I've known 2 guys who I suggested getting there levels checked after discribing there symptoms (long term symptoms) to me. Just to rule low testosterone out. All there symptoms fit. They were both in their mid 20s. It turns out they both had horribly low levels and after several re checks were put on replacement. Dramatically improved their state of well being. It's not the norm, but also not all that uncommon for someone to have hormone deficiencies at an earlier age. Not treating it would be cruel and unethical. Is that what you think the 'spirit' of drug testing is in place to accomplish? I don't.

Travis Bell
06-16-2010, 03:27 AM
This discussion right here is one of the main reasons I compete in the non tested class as a natural competitor. I just don't give a rip.

I found in the past it was too easy to make excuses for my own weakness by worrying about who is on what, when and how. Instead I think it's just easier to train hard

naites
06-16-2010, 08:03 AM
Yeah I agree on people using HRT if they require it. Just don't think they should be lifting in tested feds like so many of them think they can do. You either use or you don't.

Funny, there is the same type of discussion over on Fannon's Outlaw forum as well; http://b2.boards2go.com/boards/board.cgi?action=read&id=1276650529&user=tfannon

UHCougar05
06-16-2010, 10:17 AM
This discussion right here is one of the main reasons I compete in the non tested class as a natural competitor. I just don't give a rip.

I found in the past it was too easy to make excuses for my own weakness by worrying about who is on what, when and how. Instead I think it's just easier to train hard
Bingo. I lift untested as in my state, that's where the competition is. If I get beat, I get beat and I need to get stronger so I don't get beat again. End of story.