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View Full Version : Why You Should Skip Breakfast: The Secrets of Intermittent Fasting - New Article!



Joe Black
06-28-2010, 04:54 AM
Intermittent Fasting challenges bodybuilding’s nutritional dogma that in order to stay lean, muscular, and healthy, one must eat small, protein-containing meals every two to three hours.

If you are sick of carrying around several tuppaware boxes and need a psychological break from the traditional bodybuilding diet, Intermittent Fasting fits the bill nicely.

Get ready to have your nutritional world turned upside-down.

READ HERE (http://www.wannabebig.com/diet-and-nutrition/why-you-should-be-skipping-breakfast-the-secrets-of-intermittent-fasting/)

NaturalBB1973
06-28-2010, 08:42 AM
Great article. I'm wondering how/if one could implement an IF protocol when training two-a-days 3x per week.
First workout ~10am, second ~7pm. My apologies if this has been discussed elsewhere. Comments/links
appreciated. Thanks guys.

Jared R
06-28-2010, 09:28 AM
Thanks for the article. I've been reading about and following IF for a while and was wondering when something like this would be posted. Although it does call into question a lot of what people are taught, I hope they will give it a try and hopefully it will bring about some good changes.

Looking forward to another great article.

brihead301
06-28-2010, 09:55 AM
Good read! This is a perfect example of why the generally accepted knowledge about something isn't necessarily always the truth.

Steve Colescott
06-28-2010, 12:49 PM
This is a great exploration of a pretty hot topic. I'd like to hear anyone that has experimented with this, sharing their personal observations.

Off Road
06-28-2010, 01:08 PM
There is no way I could go that long without food...unless I was forced to do so.

mchicia1
06-28-2010, 01:15 PM
Wow first "Getting big without the big 3" and now this. Seems like the forum is becoming more diverse now. It used to be "if you don't stuff your face until you puke and don't squat/deadlift", you are an idiot.

View 1
06-28-2010, 01:24 PM
I have been using IF very loosely for a couple months now and I find it is a very easy approach to fallow. The first week was VERY hard to adjust and while the second week was better it was still a very uneasy transition for me. By the third week I was fine and started to feel the extra energy in the morning that Martin has described in his blog. I eat on average 3-4 meals in the window and hunger is really not much of an issue anymore as compared to when I was eating 5-6 meals a day.

Now a couple notes for my situation. I am using this approach as a recomp ( much like the article that Daniel Roberts wrote on here ) so I keep my calories higher, I have been laid of work for some time so besides the gym and cardio I am very inactive so I cannot tell you how I would handle this approach while working a normal job, I do not always fallow the 8/16 rule, sometimes its 9/15 or 10/14 depending on what I have going on that day this is the part where I do not over think it I just adjust to that day, in the long run this is not going to make or break me. I also try to keep my diet to around the same portions each day give or take ( 40% pro and 30% carbs and fats ) with a couple cheat meals per week ( I eat healthy most of the time but I am not entering a BB contest so its not that serious to me ).

I have dropped 5-6 pounds and an inch or so off the waist line on this approach but like I had stated I am using this as a recomp and not a full on fat loss diet at the moment.

I chose this approach as I like to go against the grain and it was just super easy to fallow and would allow me to have normal dinners which is something that I could not do without having guilt on a normal diet. I do not think this approach is better or worse than any other diet out there, but a very convenient one.

I do plan on actually breaking my intake down alot more as I am going to be the best man in a wedding coming up soon and do wish to look my best for that day. This is something that I will be doing soon, and will include higher and lower carb days as well.

Joe Black
06-28-2010, 03:06 PM
Really interesting real life view of things, thanks for that... I am really intriuged to give this a shot on the future.

The most attractive thing for me is the physchological aspect of it. I find it quite hard to stay consistent on a clean eating diet, so I tend to fall off the wagon a lot. And when I fall off, I fall OFF lol. I eat LOTS for days on end which obviously really screws with my consistency.

The thing about IF is firstly you will be eating bigger meals which should satisfy me better and reduce the chance of me wanting to binge. Secondly, the very nature of eating later in the day makes it harder to over-eat.

I've been using an IF approach on the weekends to help me stay within my calorie limits and as general damage control to be honest. For example, if I know I am eating out with friends, I won't eat till that evening meal and I've always found this pretty easy to do... And the scales seem to respond positively.

Weekends are the worst for me and if an IF type of approach helps me keep in my limits, even if it were subpar to the more traditional way of doing things, it's gotta be better than constantly gong AWOL after a few good days of dieting.

It does feel as if IF is better for dieting though, but mainly because I don't have a problem sticking to a traditional bodybuilding diet if I am in a surplus. It's the calorie restriction aspect that seems to get me.

If you are struggling to be consistent with your diet, I think this approach is worth a shot. In my opinion, total calories are the most important and then macros and then food sources and following an IF approach it's possible to keep all of these in check.

It'd be really interesting to see if anyone tries this approach and to see how they get on. my view is that if you are struggling with consistency at the moment, why not try something new? What do you have to lose? Why KEEP trying to do the same thing and failing?

Great article by Ryan, my favorate of the year actually.

Joe Black
06-28-2010, 03:15 PM
Wow first "Getting big without the big 3" and now this. Seems like the forum is becoming more diverse now. It used to be "if you don't stuff your face until you puke and don't squat/deadlift", you are an idiot.

Thanks for the feedback :)

We're really trying to present a range of topics and approaches and also chellenge the norm from time to time to get people thinking about other options. Hopefully we're achieveing this :)

Don't fear though, we have a Big Benching article in the works to even things up lol

Raleighwood
06-28-2010, 03:41 PM
I experimented with it for a couple of months...

It's definitely a promising way to lean out. It allows you to reduce calories with less psychological stress and there seems to be a nutrient partitioning affect if you schedule your feeding around your training.

16 hours isn't really that long of a time away from eating. You are only really skipping breakfast. If you are a busy person, it is very convenient. However, if you are not very busy/active in the mornings and rely on eating to kill time/boredom; IFing is going to be tough.

vcjha
06-28-2010, 04:15 PM
I've tried eating one time a day before. But my parents kept on telling me it would be too much for my metabolism, and I could end up in the hospital. Being parents, it just scares you. So I quit. but my next question is this: can you honestly say every natural bodybuilder can consume one meal a day and still get to where they are today? The study also never said how many calories each consumed, just that they consumed enough to maintain body weight, which I'm thinking is exact BMR.

J.C.
06-28-2010, 05:25 PM
Wow first "Getting big without the big 3" and now this. Seems like the forum is becoming more diverse now. It used to be "if you don't stuff your face until you puke and don't squat/deadlift", you are an idiot.

I think now it's more a case of "if you want to be big and don't stuff your face and don't squat/deadlift you are an idiot; unless you have injuries that prevent you from using those exercises and/or are dieting."


Thanks for the feedback :)

We're really trying to present a range of topics and approaches and also challenge the norm from time to time to get people thinking about other options. Hopefully we're achieving this :)

Don't fear though, we have a Big Benching article in the works to even things up lol

I'm sure other must agree with me here, but I'm a big fan of the "new" wannabebig. I was worried article quality would decrease as frequency increased but that's not been the case at all. Very impressed guys, some great new writers, articles and ideas.

Off Road
06-28-2010, 05:35 PM
I'm still a "squat/deadlift" and "stuff your face" kind of guy...but I'm always up for learning new stuff and seeing how other guys do things.

Hartzell84
06-28-2010, 06:44 PM
Can someone explain to me how to use this, I'm confused

vcjha
06-28-2010, 06:55 PM
Of course, recently, I realized I'm not going to listen to them unless they have proof. Bu the questions I posted, I would love to have answers for. I doubt any bodybuilder could get to where they are just eating one meal a day, but I'm open to input. I also am trying to analyze the study myself for the first time, so I'm wondering if anyone knows the macros and the calories they followed, whether it was BMR or not.

Behemoth
06-28-2010, 07:07 PM
It was a good read that serves to remind us that there are 10 ways to skin a cat. Except that with regard to bodybuilding there are more like 1,000.

While intermittent fasting is not for me. I do however prefer less frequent, more robust meals when dieting. And have had more success with them. Other may have more success with 10 meals daily. It all comes down to consistency and adherence IMO.

KingWilder
06-28-2010, 08:27 PM
This is how I eat every day....I love it.

I also workout in the fasted state with no problems...my first meal (50% of total calories for the day) falls 30-60min after

greemah
06-28-2010, 10:29 PM
The 16 hours a day not eating and 8 hours eating really only adds up to a couple extra hours of not eating for most people (unless you have shakes in the middle of the night).

Seems this only works due to the calorie deficit like any diet would, and possibly the morning activity on no food - which could be done with cardio first thing on any diet

heathj
06-28-2010, 11:32 PM
part of eating every 2-3 hours is to keep blood sugar level. I have trained over 50 people that work at Microsoft and they follow something similar. Skip breakfast, eat lunch and dinner, no snacks, eat lots of carbohydrates before bedtime. They all are over 50lbs overweight. Albeit they do not work out until they see me...

Hypoglycemia is a risk factor as well as hyperglycemia!

plus who can sleep most of 16 hours per day? I wish. Seems like you also need a consistent workout schedule, which I do not have.

Joe Black
06-29-2010, 02:59 AM
By the way, for those that have commented on the one meal a day thing, check out the leangains guide properly and you'll see that this isn't how it is recommended.

The guide for people with normal working hours is:

Two pre-workout meals

12-1 PM or around lunch/noon: Meal one. Approximately 20-25% of daily total calorie intake.
4-5 PM: Pre-workout meal. Roughly equal to the first meal.
8-9 PM: Post-workout meal (largest meal).

So, 3 meals a day.

On the leangains website, Martin offers a few examples for students, normal working hours and different training times.

For example here is one where you train in a fasted state in in the morning and have just two meals:

Early morning fasted training

Here's a sample setup for a client that trains early in the morning and prefers the feeding phase at noon or later. Read this for details regarding this protocol.

6 AM: 5-15 minutes pre-workout: 10 g BCAA.
6-7 AM: Training.
8 AM: 10 g BCAA.
10 AM: 10 g BCAA
12-1 PM: The "real" post-workout meal (largest meal of the day). Start of the 8 hour feeding-window.
8-9 PM: Last meal before the fast.

I think the thing to remember when looking at intermittent fasting (in fact any type of approach) is that you don't have to take it as black and white and you should study the principle and then if it needs to be applied in a different way to fit around your schedule/personality then that's fine.

The best diet is one which you can be consistent on and stick to your calories and macros and if you can do that on IF and not on other diets, IF is probably better for YOU.

I definately plan to try this approach in the future.

Codeguru
06-29-2010, 03:21 AM
I did the 5-6 meals a day with other exercise stuff and lost 50 pounds down to a good 180 lbs. I don't know how increasing your metabolism by constantly digesting has turned into "dogma" because it works. I did it, it works. Done deal...

Codeguru

lowdeuce
06-29-2010, 06:36 AM
I have been using IF for the past 3 months and I can honestly say it has been the best way to eat for me. My eating window is from 2pm to 10pm and I consume 2-4 meals in that time period. I have also cut out grain based items from my diet (rice, oatmeal, basically anything proccesed). I have been able to drop 20lbs (180 to 160) of body weight yet keep strength up and actually gain strength in other areas. I have kept protein around 200-225g, carbs around 50g (fruit and vegs) and fat around 90g and that has been more than plenty to keep me full. Give it a shot, I was always a breakfast guy, but after eating IF I don't miss it at all.

Jared

KingWilder
06-29-2010, 11:40 AM
I did the 5-6 meals a day with other exercise stuff and lost 50 pounds down to a good 180 lbs. I don't know how increasing your metabolism by constantly digesting has turned into "dogma" because it works. I did it, it works. Done deal...

Codeguru

purely anecdotal

there is no scientific evidence that proves that eating more meals throughout the day has any different affect than less meals on metabolism

I agree with Daniel though. The most effective diet will be the one you can stick with...

Martin Berkhan
06-29-2010, 11:53 AM
Great article. I'm wondering how/if one could implement an IF protocol when training two-a-days 3x per week.
First workout ~10am, second ~7pm. My apologies if this has been discussed elsewhere. Comments/links
appreciated. Thanks guys.

Example:

Fasted training (see first protocol, "Fasted Training", in the guide: http://leangains.blogspot.com/2010/04/leangains-guide.html)

Meal 1 at 12-1 pm or post-workout (large meal)

Meal 2 at 4-5 pm (small pre-wo meal)

Training

Meal 3 at 8-9 pm or post workout (largest meal)

Martin Berkhan
06-29-2010, 11:54 AM
There is no way I could go that long without food...unless I was forced to do so.

That's what a lot of people say before they've tried it. Had you asked me 4-5 years ago, I would've said the exact same thing.

JCD
06-29-2010, 11:56 AM
The 16 hours a day not eating and 8 hours eating really only adds up to a couple extra hours of not eating for most people (unless you have shakes in the middle of the night).

Seems this only works due to the calorie deficit like any diet would, and possibly the morning activity on no food - which could be done with cardio first thing on any diet
true - you're definitely right with the statement that it only adds up to a few more hours - for most people who eat early dinner and (maybe) breakfast. However, that doesn't apply to most following a traditional bodybuilding diet who say eats their last meal (casein shake, almonds or whatever before bed time at 9-10pm) and then breakfast at 5-7 am.


part of eating every 2-3 hours is to keep blood sugar level. I have trained over 50 people that work at Microsoft and they follow something similar. Skip breakfast, eat lunch and dinner, no snacks, eat lots of carbohydrates before bedtime. They all are over 50lbs overweight. Albeit they do not work out until they see me...
true, and that may be the case of those people. Sitting on your rump all day, eat a few large meals and get NO exercise. It's easy to see that over time this will make a person fat. But it's not just because they're eating a lot of carbs before bedtime and skipping breakfast. It's because that by the end of the day, they go over their daily caloric expenditure.

fwiw, I'm just making a statement. I'm not making a stance or assuming this is what you're suggesting... it just reads that way.


plus who can sleep most of 16 hours per day? I wish. Seems like you also need a consistent workout schedule, which I do not have. but who said anything about sleeping 16 hours? And yes, for those who are working out sporadically, training at night, mid-day and sometimes in the morning - this might not be the best approach if you're trying to do it as laid out.


I did the 5-6 meals a day with other exercise stuff and lost 50 pounds down to a good 180 lbs. I don't know how increasing your metabolism by constantly digesting has turned into "dogma" because it works.


Definition (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&defl=en&q=define:dogma&sa=X&ei=8jEqTLQug4LyBp3LmdMI&ved=0CBIQkAE) of Dogma:a doctrine or code of beliefs accepted as authoritative.
It's turned into dogma because research doesn't prove one's metabolism to be improved by multiple meals.

Thermogenesis in humans after varying meal time frequency (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3592618)

Meal frequency and energy balance (http://journals.cambridge.org/action/displayAbstract?fromPage=online&aid=879792)
Lyle wrote extensively about this paper HERE (http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/research-review/meal-frequency-and-energy-balance-research-review.html).

then, the most recent paper I know of
Increased meal frequency does not promote greater weight loss in subjects who were prescribed an 8-week equi-energetic energy-restricted diet. (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19943985)


I did it, it works. Done deal...
You simply lost weight because you maintained a deficit... Many others are fasting and losing weight AND retaining lean mass just like all those eating every 2.386958 hours. It's just like someone mentioned earlier. There are countless ways to skin a cat. Find what works for you and what you like and stick with it.

The best diet is the diet you can adhere to.

Martin Berkhan
06-29-2010, 11:59 AM
Really interesting real life view of things, thanks for that... I am really intriuged to give this a shot on the future.

The most attractive thing for me is the physchological aspect of it. I find it quite hard to stay consistent on a clean eating diet, so I tend to fall off the wagon a lot. And when I fall off, I fall OFF lol. I eat LOTS for days on end which obviously really screws with my consistency.

The thing about IF is firstly you will be eating bigger meals which should satisfy me better and reduce the chance of me wanting to binge. Secondly, the very nature of eating later in the day makes it harder to over-eat.

I've been using an IF approach on the weekends to help me stay within my calorie limits and as general damage control to be honest. For example, if I know I am eating out with friends, I won't eat till that evening meal and I've always found this pretty easy to do... And the scales seem to respond positively.

Weekends are the worst for me and if an IF type of approach helps me keep in my limits, even if it were subpar to the more traditional way of doing things, it's gotta be better than constantly gong AWOL after a few good days of dieting.

It does feel as if IF is better for dieting though, but mainly because I don't have a problem sticking to a traditional bodybuilding diet if I am in a surplus. It's the calorie restriction aspect that seems to get me.

If you are struggling to be consistent with your diet, I think this approach is worth a shot. In my opinion, total calories are the most important and then macros and then food sources and following an IF approach it's possible to keep all of these in check.

It'd be really interesting to see if anyone tries this approach and to see how they get on. my view is that if you are struggling with consistency at the moment, why not try something new? What do you have to lose? Why KEEP trying to do the same thing and failing?

Great article by Ryan, my favorate of the year actually.

You really hit the spot in summing up many of the behavioral and psychological benefits for using intermittent fasting for fat loss, or as a lifestyle strategy for maintaining low or very low body fat %.

Martin Berkhan
06-29-2010, 12:07 PM
part of eating every 2-3 hours is to keep blood sugar level. I have trained over 50 people that work at Microsoft and they follow something similar. Skip breakfast, eat lunch and dinner, no snacks, eat lots of carbohydrates before bedtime. They all are over 50lbs overweight. Albeit they do not work out until they see me...

Hypoglycemia is a risk factor as well as hyperglycemia!

plus who can sleep most of 16 hours per day? I wish. Seems like you also need a consistent workout schedule, which I do not have.

The hypoglycemia deal is bull**** unless you have a true metabolic disorder. The body maintains glucose homeostasis within a very tight range during 48 hrs of fasting. And you think going 3 hrs without food is a big deal? Internal and external stressors can do some wacky things to blood glucose, especially in combination with junk food, but this is not an issue for the metabolically healhy population. Nor is frequent feeding usually a solution for those suffering of reactive hypoglycemia.

Martin Berkhan
06-29-2010, 12:14 PM
I did the 5-6 meals a day with other exercise stuff and lost 50 pounds down to a good 180 lbs. I don't know how increasing your metabolism by constantly digesting has turned into "dogma" because it works. I did it, it works. Done deal...

Codeguru

I've been debunking this the meal frequency fallacy so much that talking about it bores me to tears at this point. I'll just direct you to the studies and articles on my site:

http://leangains.blogspot.com/search/label/Meal%20Frequency

A recent study actually shows three meals being superior to six meals in terms of satiety and fullness. That's pure gold during dieting.

SteelWeaver
06-29-2010, 02:01 PM
Great Article once again Martin.

I've been following your tribulations for a bit.

I think I remember you posting in another article or interview that you regularly consume up to 100 kCal of milk in your coffee several times during the fast. I also recall an old thread from 2007 or so on Lyle's forum where he was indicating that a PSMF-like diet would effectively mimic fasting.

I've tried IF for a week or two at a time for a few weeks interspersed with a week or two of UD2.0 since about February. The approach has worked pretty well, I went from 6'2" ~230lbs, ~15%BF to ~208lbs ~9-10% BF. I'm looking to get down to a minimum of 200 lbs, which should put me at about 5-7% BF, just to see where the body has veins :-). I really like the flexibility IF affords, especially compared to a very rigid program like UD2.0.

Although I am using Ephedrine/Caffeine, I find hunger is often a problem from the 10-12th hour of the fasting period. Increasing the protein consumption just before bedtime seems to help somewhat, but some hunger pangs remain. I find 20-40g of whey/casein powder every 3-5 hours during the fast abates my hunger pretty well.

What are your thoughts on this? Do you think the (slight?) impact of the protein on insulin and other hormones would be sufficient to disrupt the fasting response?

Berzinator
06-29-2010, 02:02 PM
I've been doing Intermittent Fasting for about 2 years now and I'm never going back to trying to eat 5-6 small meals. I love IF - the energy high during fasting, the nutrient partitioning, the big meals while maintaining caloric goals - all things I love about IF.

The biggest thing to remember is IF is a tool, not an end all be all. You can't eat everything and anything and not exercise and expect to get in shape.

That being said, IF can REALLY compliment proper training. Once I got my training on track I was adding muscle and losing fat, and this was all while I wasn't 100% with my diet. The nutrient partitioning effect can be pretty powerful in some people. And when you specifically diet, not only is maintaining a caloric deficit easier, but lean mass is much easier to hold on to. I've seen studies showing growth hormone is increased during the fast, which probably helps hold onto muscle while allowing fat burning to go on unabated.

It's also nice to not worry about eating for the first half of the day. I can focus on other things without stopping to eat or having to constantly have food around. I'm also much more in tune with my hunger response from eating like this. Because of the nature of grehlin, once you adapt to eating like this you'll only be hungry when it's time to start eating.

Overall, only good things to say about IF. I urge anyone who's used to eating the traditional bodybuilding diet, or stuck in the mindset that things have to be this way, to try it and at least realize it does still work even if it's not for you.

Also to whoever asked if they think bodybuilders could get where they are today with this approach, I absolutely believe they could. In fact I think they'd possibly be further along using this technique. Hell just look at Martin's condition.

Ministry1965
06-30-2010, 12:10 AM
Hallo!

Must say that the IF-protocol is the best that ever happend to me when it comes to training and diet.
Ok! Finding out about HD, Abberivated WO´s and HIT some 15 years ago comes close but this is no. 1 since IF gives me the chance to both enjoy food in a relax state of mind and keep in shape all year around.

I´m having 2 meals a day were meal 1 is the post WO meal and 7 hrs later I´m having a large dinner.
Always train in a fasted state with app. 15 g BCAA in the system. I also start the day with 15 g BCAA.
Combined with a low volume strenght protocol and some HiiT I feel in supershape even though I´m almost 46.
So my tip to all of you trainees outthere: Go for IF! You wont regret it in the long term.

http://bodyspace.bodybuilding.com/ministry1965/

wazzup
06-30-2010, 12:23 AM
Also to whoever asked if they think bodybuilders could get where they are today with this approach, I absolutely believe they could. In fact I think they'd possibly be further along using this technique. Hell just look at Martin's condition.

Actually... when I hear "bodybuilder" I think "steroids" ... Has any "user" ever reported results doing some sort of fast ?

KingWilder
06-30-2010, 05:30 AM
Hallo!

Must say that the IF-protocol is the best that ever happend to me when it comes to training and diet.
Ok! Finding out about HD, Abberivated WO´s and HIT some 15 years ago comes close but this is no. 1 since IF gives me the chance to both enjoy food in a relax state of mind and keep in shape all year around.

I´m having 2 meals a day were meal 1 is the post WO meal and 7 hrs later I´m having a large dinner.
Always train in a fasted state with app. 15 g BCAA in the system. I also start the day with 15 g BCAA.
Combined with a low volume strenght protocol and some HiiT I feel in supershape even though I´m almost 46.
So my tip to all of you trainees outthere: Go for IF! You wont regret it in the long term.

http://bodyspace.bodybuilding.com/ministry1965/

what kind of BCAA's (brand) do you use?

Ministry1965
06-30-2010, 05:32 AM
what kind of BCAA's (brand) do you use?

Xtend from Scivation. Lemonflavor wich i mix with sugarfree Icetee lemonflavor. Better than soda :-)

ericpad
06-30-2010, 06:39 AM
I'm very intrigued by this article and IF in general. I've always struggled to get the 5 - 6 meal thing right and I think this will greatly ease my nutritional concerns. I'm excited to give this approach a try.

DavyRen
06-30-2010, 06:59 AM
I'm very intrigued by this article and IF in general. I've always struggled to get the 5 - 6 meal thing right and I think this will greatly ease my nutritional concerns. I'm excited to give this approach a try.

I'd certainly agree with that, started it this moring so we'll see what progress is made

Berzinator
06-30-2010, 07:34 AM
Actually... when I hear "bodybuilder" I think "steroids" ... Has any "user" ever reported results doing some sort of fast ?

Ah well in this case maybe not. Steroids basically do enough nutrient partitioning to override everything. However it would be interesting because the fasting part on steroids would burn a considerable amount of fat and hold onto the lean mass. So maybe. The only thing I'd say is that bodybuilders on steroids can eat ALOT more and have it mostly go to muscle, so they might not be able to get the 5000 calories they need in an 8 hour window, and if they got less they wouldn't be getting all the muscle they could from the steroids. Just my thoughts though.


Also for anyone reading this thread who doesn't like the idea of fasting or doesn't want to go that long without food, then simply take from this article/thread that meal frequency isn't that important. In other words, you don't have to do a 16/8 fast/feed cycle or whatever, but you can relax if you only get 3 or 4 meals instead of stressing over trying to get the 5 to 6 meals in (some people suggest up to 8... Do they do anything else besides eat all day? Hahaha). I think the mental energy wasted on something as pointless as getting every meal in for the day is very excessive, especially when research is showing no benefit. Just seems like a waste of people's thought power, IMO.

tjm5054
06-30-2010, 08:34 AM
Though I personally have not consulted Martin on my IF approach, I have learned everything from him by reading his blog from start to finish including a majority of the comments.

A little over 6 months ago I started eating Paleo Nutrition style, I was sitting around 170lbs of a short (5'6") and stocky muscle and fat. Due to personal reasons, I stopped working out and eating very clean paleo style dropped my weight down to an unhealthily 135lbs in a matter of a couple months. Tons of muscle mass as well as fat dropped off while following the Paleo Nutrition lifestyle along with my own form of IF as in I ate whenever I felt like it which was like once a day probably only consuming 800-1200 calories at most. I felt excellent from eating the clean paleo style foods but I knew this was just not an healthy lifestyle to be sedentary and eating so little not matter how clean.

A little over 3 months ago I decided to get back into my passions of strength training and nutritrion. Throughout my life since 7th grade I have always been in some form of strength training program for baseball football and hockey. Then in college I decided to join the cheerleading squad for a large Big 10 University and was in decent shape through all of that. So my base and knowledge of many different routines styled to quite a few different sports and activities was there. However, i decided to pick up a few books, specifically Supertraining, Science and Practice of Strength Training, Starting Strength, New Rules of Lifting and also read Martin's entire blog (could not afford his consultation at the time), Alan Aragon's work, and Lyle McDonald's work.

I devised my own strength training program of sticking to the basic compound movement exercises 5x4-8 of all barbell work: squats, deadlifts, standing overhead military, bench press, incline press, bent over rows. A lot of what I do I learned from Martin as well in the sense that I do not worry about the accessory exercises and focus on compound movements. However I am not currently on a high-intensity approach. I train fasted with 10g of BCAAs beforehand (per Martin's recommendations and research study he provided) and have never felt stronger. THat was it.

I devised my own nutrition program based on what I learned from Martin, Alan, and Lyle. The Paleo nutrition lifestyle had its merits while I could afford it, but at the moment I find that I am not sensitive to grains nor carbs and find my strength and weight climb up really nicely in a high carb/high protein/low-moderate fat routine. I strongly believe the IF approach provides wonderful insulin sensitivity with its nutrient repartitioning effects.

I came into the IF approach from a different perspective than a lot of others on this approach as I wanted to put on as much weight as fast as possible while limiting bodyfat gain. Going from 140lbs to current sitting at 164lbs a little over 65 days into my strength training and IF approach with no increase in pant sizes and no increase using two different bodyfat calipars using the Jackson-Pollock 3 Point skinfodl measure. I usually fast for 16-20 hours and drink Yerba Mate tea throughout the day.

My IF approach is quite loose in terms of food and hours. I usually work form 9-5, train fasted every other day from 5:30-7 or so and start my eating window around 7:30-8pm and finish around 12. I eat tons of "unhealthy" stuff such as sugary cereals (just love em), lots and lots of plain bagels, pasta, lots of protein, and some healthy fats. My postworkout meal is around 2500 calories with around 300g carbs and lots of protein. After postworkout I jstu eat whenever I am hungry again which is usually within the hour or two. Pre-bed I have a lot of milk, casein, cottage cheese, eggs with some fats such as coconut oil, almond butter, almonds. I usually have a cheat day about 2 days a week also which includes whole pizzas with the works, (unlike Martin I have a ice cream and cookie fetish instead of cheesecake) a pint of B&J's and possibly 2 large cookies (1200 calories each or so) totaling around 6,000-6500 calories. Though I do not suggest this, I have been putting on lots of muscle mass without moving the bodyfat calipars up at all on the IF approach.

If you want to see some of the psychological and physical benefits I had on Intermittent Fasting before my recent mass building phase, I actually did a blog post on Intermittent Fasting on my blog (post is here, delete if links are not allowed: http://lifedestiny.net/intermittent-fasting-eat-whatever-whenever-to-lose-weight Some of the guidelines in that post have changed since I have changed my approach to IFing a little bit.

I can truly attribute a lot of my progress to what I have learned from Martin at LeanGains.com and am thinking of setting up a consultation with him whenever I can afford it.

Below is my current progress. I am now at 164lbs at a little over 65 days from the first picture. I have never had abs before IFing but the top 4 are showing through on this lean mass building phase. The abs are solid from top to the bottom from just strictly heavy deadlifts, squats, weightup pushups and chinups. My body is solid all around with veins popping out everywhere shoulders, over the lats, down over the ribs, at the V spot above the crotch. Two different bodyfat calipars using the 3-point Jackson-Pollock method show bodyfat quite low though it may not be entirely accurate it does tel me week to week and month-month if my bodyfat is going up or down and so far while IFing on my lean mass builinng phase it has not gone up and might have actually dropped a little. Over 20lbs of lean mass in a little over 60 days possible? The only explanation in my mind is the IF approach and my previous base and years of strength training. I am also quite an easy gainer if I incorporate heavy weights.

I also run a blog and will be doing a post on all of my setup for those of you who are interested can PM me for a link, unless I can link here on WannaBeBig?

http://img63.imageshack.us/img63/4671/transformerfd.jpg (http://img63.imageshack.us/i/transformerfd.jpg/)
http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/4891/june2520107.jpg (http://img163.imageshack.us/i/june2520107.jpg/)

depotman
06-30-2010, 09:54 AM
Though I personally have not consulted Martin on my IF approach, I have learned everything from him by reading his blog from start to finish including a majority of the comments.

A little over 6 months ago I started eating Paleo Nutrition style, I was sitting around 170lbs of a short (5'6") and stocky muscle and fat. Due to personal reasons, I stopped working out and eating very clean paleo style dropped my weight down to an unhealthily 135lbs in a matter of a couple months. Tons of muscle mass as well as fat dropped off while following the Paleo Nutrition lifestyle along with my own form of IF as in I ate whenever I felt like it which was like once a day probably only consuming 800-1200 calories at most. I felt excellent from eating the clean paleo style foods but I knew this was just not an healthy lifestyle to be sedentary and eating so little not matter how clean.

A little over 3 months ago I decided to get back into my passions of strength training and nutritrion. Throughout my life since 7th grade I have always been in some form of strength training program for baseball football and hockey. Then in college I decided to join the cheerleading squad for a large Big 10 University and was in decent shape through all of that. So my base and knowledge of many different routines styled to quite a few different sports and activities was there. However, i decided to pick up a few books, specifically Supertraining, Science and Practice of Strength Training, Starting Strength, New Rules of Lifting and also read Martin's entire blog (could not afford his consultation at the time), Alan Aragon's work, and Lyle McDonald's work.

I devised my own strength training program of sticking to the basic compound movement exercises 5x4-8 of all barbell work: squats, deadlifts, standing overhead military, bench press, incline press, bent over rows. A lot of what I do I learned from Martin as well in the sense that I do not worry about the accessory exercises and focus on compound movements. However I am not currently on a high-intensity approach. I train fasted with 10g of BCAAs beforehand (per Martin's recommendations and research study he provided) and have never felt stronger. THat was it.

I devised my own nutrition program based on what I learned from Martin, Alan, and Lyle. The Paleo nutrition lifestyle had its merits while I could afford it, but at the moment I find that I am not sensitive to grains nor carbs and find my strength and weight climb up really nicely in a high carb/high protein/low-moderate fat routine. I strongly believe the IF approach provides wonderful insulin sensitivity with its nutrient repartitioning effects.

I came into the IF approach from a different perspective than a lot of others on this approach as I wanted to put on as much weight as fast as possible while limiting bodyfat gain. Going from 140lbs to current sitting at 164lbs a little over 65 days into my strength training and IF approach with no increase in pant sizes and no increase using two different bodyfat calipars using the Jackson-Pollock 3 Point skinfodl measure. I usually fast for 16-20 hours and drink Yerba Mate tea throughout the day.

My IF approach is quite loose in terms of food and hours. I usually work form 9-5, train fasted every other day from 5:30-7 or so and start my eating window around 7:30-8pm and finish around 12. I eat tons of "unhealthy" stuff such as sugary cereals (just love em), lots and lots of plain bagels, pasta, lots of protein, and some healthy fats. My postworkout meal is around 2500 calories with around 300g carbs and lots of protein. After postworkout I jstu eat whenever I am hungry again which is usually within the hour or two. Pre-bed I have a lot of milk, casein, cottage cheese, eggs with some fats such as coconut oil, almond butter, almonds. I usually have a cheat day about 2 days a week also which includes whole pizzas with the works, (unlike Martin I have a ice cream and cookie fetish instead of cheesecake) a pint of B&J's and possibly 2 large cookies (1200 calories each or so) totaling around 6,000-6500 calories. Though I do not suggest this, I have been putting on lots of muscle mass without moving the bodyfat calipars up at all on the IF approach.

If you want to see some of the psychological and physical benefits I had on Intermittent Fasting before my recent mass building phase, I actually did a blog post on Intermittent Fasting on my blog (post is here, delete if links are not allowed: http://lifedestiny.net/intermittent-fasting-eat-whatever-whenever-to-lose-weight Some of the guidelines in that post have changed since I have changed my approach to IFing a little bit.

I can truly attribute a lot of my progress to what I have learned from Martin at LeanGains.com and am thinking of setting up a consultation with him whenever I can afford it.

Below is my current progress. I am now at 164lbs at a little over 65 days from the first picture. I have never had abs before IFing but the top 4 are showing through on this lean mass building phase. The abs are solid from top to the bottom from just strictly heavy deadlifts, squats, weightup pushups and chinups. My body is solid all around with veins popping out everywhere shoulders, over the lats, down over the ribs, at the V spot above the crotch. Two different bodyfat calipars using the 3-point Jackson-Pollock method show bodyfat quite low though it may not be entirely accurate it does tel me week to week and month-month if my bodyfat is going up or down and so far while IFing on my lean mass builinng phase it has not gone up and might have actually dropped a little. Over 20lbs of lean mass in a little over 60 days possible? The only explanation in my mind is the IF approach and my previous base and years of strength training. I am also quite an easy gainer if I incorporate heavy weights.

I also run a blog and will be doing a post on all of my setup for those of you who are interested can PM me for a link, unless I can link here on WannaBeBig?


Nice work man, keep up the progress. I don't think you can post links until you get a few (10?) post under your belt.

This is a great article for the site and I love the info being shared in it and this thread. This thread alone has brought several more registered users to the site sharing their story here in this thread.

Nice work WBB Admin.

My question is while trying to adhere to the IF approach. Would it be benifical to take the small supplements of BCAA's talked about during the fasting period, like after I wake up?

I usually eat from around 9/10 AM - 6/7 pm and fast from 6/7 PM - 9/10 AM.

KingWilder
06-30-2010, 10:34 AM
Nice work man, keep up the progress. I don't think you can post links until you get a few (10?) post under your belt.

This is a great article for the site and I love the info being shared in it and this thread. This thread alone has brought several more registered users to the site sharing their story here in this thread.

Nice work WBB Admin.

My question is while trying to adhere to the IF approach. Would it be benifical to take the small supplements of BCAA's talked about during the fasting period, like after I wake up?

I usually eat from around 9/10 AM - 6/7 pm and fast from 6/7 PM - 9/10 AM.

I believe the only necessary reason to take BCAAs during the fast is if you plan on weightlifting before your first meal...I could be wrong (I'm sure Martin will chime in)

I take my BCAA's, workout 11:30-12:30, then have my first meal at 1PM

If you worked out earlier in the day you could take BCAA's pre and post workout to stay in the fasted state (BCAA's at 8, workout, BCAAs at 10 or something, start eating at 12-1)

tjm5054
06-30-2010, 10:48 AM
Nice work man, keep up the progress. I don't think you can post links until you get a few (10?) post under your belt.

This is a great article for the site and I love the info being shared in it and this thread. This thread alone has brought several more registered users to the site sharing their story here in this thread.

Nice work WBB Admin.

My question is while trying to adhere to the IF approach. Would it be benifical to take the small supplements of BCAA's talked about during the fasting period, like after I wake up?

I usually eat from around 9/10 AM - 6/7 pm and fast from 6/7 PM - 9/10 AM.


Yeah I was unaware of WBB until Mr. Zielonka's excellent write-up on IF. Subscribed to RSS and looking forward to what more of WBB has to offer as I have a complete open mind to everything health and nutrition.

As far as taking BCAAs during the fasting period, as per the above post, I do not believe it is really necessary unless you train and do not want to start your workout window until a few hours after workout.

Martin Berkhan
06-30-2010, 06:17 PM
Well done, tjm5054. That's 20 lbs lean mass in 8 weeks (?). Body fat did not increase by an ounce as far as I can see.

Martin Berkhan
06-30-2010, 06:21 PM
I believe the only necessary reason to take BCAAs during the fast is if you plan on weightlifting before your first meal...I could be wrong (I'm sure Martin will chime in)

I take my BCAA's, workout 11:30-12:30, then have my first meal at 1PM

If you worked out earlier in the day you could take BCAA's pre and post workout to stay in the fasted state (BCAA's at 8, workout, BCAAs at 10 or something, start eating at 12-1)

Yes,

1. 10 g BCAA before fasted lifting followed by the pwo-meal (see fasted training protocol in guide) http://leangains.blogspot.com/2010/04/leangains-guide.html

OR

2. 10 g BCAA before fasted lifting, and in 2 hour intervals before the pwo-meal (see early fasted training protocol in the guide). Or see the article I wrote specifically for that protocol: http://leangains.blogspot.com/2010/05/early-morning-fasted-training.html

tjm5054
06-30-2010, 08:19 PM
Well done, tjm5054. That's 20 lbs lean mass in 8 weeks (?). Body fat did not increase by an ounce as far as I can see.

Thanks Martin. Yeah that is around 8 weeks and 20lbs of lean mass. Since IFing with clean foods and heavy 5x5 barbell training lead to that. Still making really strong gains in both mass and strength week to week.

Bodyfat has not moved up at all according to 2 different calipars using the basic Jackson Pollock 3 Point Method. Have never seen my abs before and now the top 4 are starting to pop through just slightly. Obliques are pretty much muscle with some veins going though them over the rib cage. Bottom ab area is pretty much a solid rock with little amounts of bodyfat overtop hiding the more defined look, which the picture does not do justice. I completely expect not to look like a chiseled sculpture when I am putting on mass and strength in a rapid pace. I figure once I start stalling I will dial into a more maintenance IF approach and probably will get into contact with you in order to see how low I can take my bodyfat % while maintaining/increasing strength.

JOELIMBO
07-01-2010, 06:00 PM
I have never posted on here.This is my first time,and i believe i am not the best with words.That being said,In response to depotmans post.I am a 50 yr old bodybuilder(natural)and in my yrs of experience(too many)i have noticed that the human body,weather genitically or or for whatever reason tends to have a comfortable or preferred wt,also muscle seems to have memory.Over the yrs i have worked out on and off and i have gotten fatter and skinnier from time to time,(mostly fatter),but it does seem that when i begin to get in shape again.Ihave a much easier time returning to a certain weight and mass.It almost seems that it was genetically decided long ago.I am sure there are other factors,like the amount of physical work I do (i am a welder so i am lfting heavy steel and very active anyway)It is when i try to get past those heavier or lighter wts that my body seems to ......argue.iI believe "if" is very interesting and after my next contest ,i am definately going to give it a try,but there is a good chance that depotmans genetic memory,had some thing to do with his return to his old self,I am just pointing out the experience of an old bodybuilder,I did not want to ruffle any feathers or start trouble ,just something more to think about

Songsangnim
07-01-2010, 08:23 PM
There is no way I could go that long without food...unless I was forced to do so.

Agreed. Four hours without food and I get a severe headache...which only goes away about .5 hour or so after eating.

16 hours and I'd probably pass out.

Jase 'the Muss'
07-01-2010, 09:02 PM
as i dont work out in the am! do you have to do fasted training? or say could you have first meal at 1ish then another at 6ish train at 7ish and have the bigest meal at 9? and what kind of meals are we looking at say scrambled eggs for meal one big tuna sandwhich meal two and some lean meat and veggies meal three?

Joe Black
07-02-2010, 12:32 AM
Agreed. Four hours without food and I get a severe headache...which only goes away about .5 hour or so after eating.

16 hours and I'd probably pass out.

Well remember that includes your sleeping time :)

I've never followed IF as a main dieting strategie, but I have restricted myself from food for most of the day so that I could splurge a little in the evening and still hit my overall diet numbers and it is possible.

You just gotta keep busy and try not to think about food and as with anything you just get used to it. I find it fairly easy now not to eat anything right through to 4pm and I wake at 7am - hot teas, coke zeros help too :)

Joe Black
07-02-2010, 12:35 AM
as i dont work out in the am! do you have to do fasted training? or say could you have first meal at 1ish then another at 6ish train at 7ish and have the bigest meal at 9? and what kind of meals are we looking at say scrambled eggs for meal one big tuna sandwhich meal two and some lean meat and veggies meal three?


as i dont work out in the am! do you have to do fasted training? or say could you have first meal at 1ish then another at 6ish train at 7ish and have the bigest meal at 9? and what kind of meals are we looking at say scrambled eggs for meal one big tuna sandwhich meal two and some lean meat and veggies meal three?

Jase,

Martin actually prescribes a plan for exactly this.

Two pre-workout meals
12-1 PM or around lunch/noon: Meal one. Approximately 20-25% of daily total calorie intake.
4-5 PM: Pre-workout meal. Roughly equal to the first meal.
TRAIN
8-9 PM: Post-workout meal (largest meal).

So, 3 meals a day.

Joe Black
07-02-2010, 12:37 AM
Also for anyone reading this thread who doesn't like the idea of fasting or doesn't want to go that long without food, then simply take from this article/thread that meal frequency isn't that important. In other words, you don't have to do a 16/8 fast/feed cycle or whatever, but you can relax if you only get 3 or 4 meals instead of stressing over trying to get the 5 to 6 meals in (some people suggest up to 8... Do they do anything else besides eat all day? Hahaha). I think the mental energy wasted on something as pointless as getting every meal in for the day is very excessive, especially when research is showing no benefit. Just seems like a waste of people's thought power, IMO.

Very, very well said.

LouPac
07-02-2010, 02:42 AM
So if I wanted to try this, how many calories should I be consuming at 210lbs?

blackice666
07-02-2010, 02:55 AM
I'm a little bit confused,

My actual weight is 198lbs @ 18% BF , 6.2 feet (191cm) and I am bulking aiming for 231lbs, i plan to begin my cutting phase on February 2011.

So IF should be good in case you are trying to cut? Or it may help u even when you are in caloric sufficiency?

I'm on a bulking phase right now and i consume around 3700kcal a day (based from the HCT-12 nutrition recommendation) in 6 meals, all from food (no protein powders etc). And it has gone well till now, bulked 16 lb in 7 weeks.

So as i'm understanding i have to:

1st Meal at 16:00 25% (925kcal)
Workout at 17:30
Post workout meal at 19:30 55% (2035kcal)
Before bed time meal at 24:00 (740kcal)

Should this be the right plan?

Best Regards!

View 1
07-03-2010, 05:05 PM
So if I wanted to try this, how many calories should I be consuming at 210lbs?

That depends on what is your goal? Maintain, fat loss, mass, recomp etc...

cws
07-11-2010, 01:10 PM
This is all very interesting. I am competing in a bodybuilding show 10/9 and would love to see how this works for contest prep. I just don't think I have the stones to try it when I know the more traditional approach works, as I have used it in the past to get well into single digit bodyfat.

Shadow
07-12-2010, 05:32 AM
I browse around here once in a while and this article really caught my eye. I've been struggling with diet modifications for a while. Yea, I really hate having to eat every 2-3 hours..that tupperware comment hits the nail on the head. I follow an olympic weightlifting regimen so my training is pretty set. The only excitement I get anymore is playing with nutrition.. lookin forward to trying out these ideas here.

cws
07-12-2010, 07:46 PM
I invite comments on the potential effectiveness (If there is something out there like this, please let me know.) of a modified intermittent fast with two protein pulses in the morning (see David Barr's articles) and peri-workout nutrition based on Dr. Kevin Tipton's research. I can already hear people saying that I am just randomly throwing together theories, but I have a decent background in biochemistry and physiology (I am a board-certified internal medicine doctor and former personal trainer, and I have been studying this stuff since I was 18.) and it isn't unreasonable in my estimation to think something like this may be effective. Here is what a 2000 calorie diet would look like. Thoughts?

6:30: 20g whey hydosylate/EAA/BCAA mix

9:00: 20g same

12:30: 600 calories

6:00: 210 calories (25g dextrose/maltodextrin and 27g whey hydosylate/EAA/BCAA mix)

7:30: 210 calories same ( perhaps with a casein/whey mix)

9:30: 700 calories

Daniel Roberts
07-13-2010, 01:11 AM
I invite comments on the potential effectiveness (If there is something out there like this, please let me know.) of a modified intermittent fast with two protein pulses in the morning (see David Barr's articles) and peri-workout nutrition based on Dr. Kevin Tipton's research. I can already hear people saying that I am just randomly throwing together theories, but I have a decent background in biochemistry and physiology (I am a board-certified internal medicine doctor and former personal trainer, and I have been studying this stuff since I was 18.) and it isn't unreasonable in my estimation to think something like this may be effective. Here is what a 2000 calorie diet would look like. Thoughts?

6:30: 20g whey hydosylate/EAA/BCAA mix

9:00: 20g same

12:30: 600 calories

6:00: 210 calories (25g dextrose/maltodextrin and 27g whey hydosylate/EAA/BCAA mix)

7:30: 210 calories same ( perhaps with a casein/whey mix)

9:30: 700 calories

It depends whether you'd personally find that schedule workable. To me it's tending towards 6 timed feedings a day (I appreciate that's not the aim and some of the feedings aren't meals) which is the antithesis of IF.

As for theoretical benefits, there are just too many 'maybes' to comment on whether there's a statistical significance to those 'pulse' feedings over and above simply hitting your protein requirement for the day.

Martin Berkhan's site (leangains.com) has a few case studies and feeding strategies (linked above somewhere) that incorporate BCAA's at certain intervals etc.

See the article here for my thoughts on most of this -

http://www.wannabebig.com/diet-and-nutrition/nutrient-timing-when-science-and-marketing-collide/

cws
07-13-2010, 01:46 PM
Very insightful. Thanks. I believe that in the end, for fat loss, finding a way to consistently create a calorie deficit is more important the specific method used. At the least, this should encourage people not to freak out if their forth meal commenced 12 minutes late, or if there is only 32 instead of 40 grams of protein in their breakfast.

matty7000
07-14-2010, 08:20 AM
wow..some results shown and info laid out here is interesting to me! i have bad genetics - i can out on fat easily but not muscle, i have to carefully manage my cals to lean gain and muscle growth is slow! so to me my partitioning ratio is not too good.

My question to anyone who has experienced good results with IF....

If i consume most of my daily cals post workout, would my partitioning ratio be better for those cals taken in post workout?? so in theory more muscle to fat ratio?

I ask this question as my workout and work pattern changes every day, so i was thinking of just having small(s) meals before a workout. Any advice/opinions are greatly appreciated.

Daniel Roberts
07-15-2010, 03:31 AM
wow..some results shown and info laid out here is interesting to me! i have bad genetics - i can out on fat easily but not muscle, i have to carefully manage my cals to lean gain and muscle growth is slow! so to me my partitioning ratio is not too good.

My question to anyone who has experienced good results with IF....

If i consume most of my daily cals post workout, would my partitioning ratio be better for those cals taken in post workout?? so in theory more muscle to fat ratio?

I ask this question as my workout and work pattern changes every day, so i was thinking of just having small(s) meals before a workout. Any advice/opinions are greatly appreciated.

Go to www.leangains.com (Martin Berkhan's site) and all the answers are there including case studies, etc.

You'll get a better response there because they're all advocates of IF there.

ryuage
07-15-2010, 11:40 AM
personally, I find this approach great (notice the word personally)

If any thing, for myself, it serves as a more behavioral and psychological approach to dieting. The last thing I want to do when I diet is go to bed starving. Eating 1 or 2 big meals for me at the end of the day is much more satisfying.

View 1
07-15-2010, 06:00 PM
Update:

I am down to 243 ( as of last week ) from 254 a little less than 2 months ago ( still a long way to go). Calories average around 2400, I am doing 45 minutes of steady state cardio 6 days a week ( 2-3 days are fasted cardio in the morning ) and am hitting the weights 4 days a week vs 3 before. I have actually been eating more cheat meals and continue to lose inches and pounds every month.

I am very very glad that I made the switch over to IF and I will fallow this style of eating for the rest of my life, and I LOVE the fact that I can eat normal dinners again. Like I stated before the first 2 week adjustment period was a horrible transition for me but now I am reaping the benefits of IF.

Joe Black
07-16-2010, 01:03 AM
Hey View,

How many calories are you on and can you give us a sample days food/meals?

View 1
07-16-2010, 01:31 PM
Hey View,

How many calories are you on and can you give us a sample days food/meals?

Sure thing Daniel.

I am down to 241 this morning which is only 2 pounds in two weeks but I also had about 5-6 cheat meals per week in the last two week ( Going to go back to 1-2 max ).

I eat alot of the same foods day in and day out, as of late I have been having a large amount of protein per meal, with a moderate amount of carbs and healthy fats. I do not fallow IF to the T so to speak as I have stated before I am everyday guy and dont need to be that strict I am not entering a body building show.

This is what I have planned for today meal wise, minor things change here and there ( chicken, fish, brown rice, strawberries, apples, different veggies etc.. ). I will admit I do not eat enough veggies most days. I also take in 6 grams of fish oil every day.

Meal 1: 12:00pm

75 grams protein ( mix blend )
1 large banana
2 tbsp natty bp

Meal 2: 4:00pm

3 cans tuna
Steal cut oats ( 54 grams )
1 tbsp olive oil ( mixed with tuna, also will use a dap of mustard )

Meal 3: 8:00pm

10oz steak
2-3 servings of green beans mixed with mushrooms
1 cup cottage cheese
1 activia light yogurt

Macros for the day

Calories = 2300
Protein = 254 ( 43% )
Carbs = 150 ( 25% )
Fats = 85 ( 32% )

Any other questions you can think of I would be glad to answer.

LouPac
07-17-2010, 09:41 PM
That depends on what is your goal? Maintain, fat loss, mass, recomp etc...

Fat loss.

ryuage
07-17-2010, 11:12 PM
there is nothing magic about IF that would require you to eat more or less calories than it usually takes you to lose fat using any other diet.

LouPac
07-18-2010, 01:24 AM
there is nothing magic about IF that would require you to eat more or less calories than it usually takes you to lose fat using any other diet.

No one said anything about it being magical, it's just another method to try.

ryuage
07-18-2010, 10:35 AM
No one said anything about it being magical, it's just another method to try.

don't see how you are addressing what I said to you.

so why are you asking how many calories you should eat? as you would require a different amount of calories to lose weight using IF than any other method.

Gugunir
07-18-2010, 11:15 AM
I have been trying this out for about 2 weeks, at first not eating breakfast and then training felt odd but I could see a change in my body within a week. Nothing drastic but a bit leaner and more vascular.

View 1
07-18-2010, 12:28 PM
Fat loss.

You would approach this from a calorie stand point just like you would any other diet. As far as saying your 210lbs and how many calories you should take in, we cannot tell you that as everyone is different ( your metabolism, activity level etc... ).

You need to first find your baseline calorie intake, easiest way is to use a website like www.fitday.com and track everything you eat for a solid 2 weeks or more. Now based upon the time period you will do one of 3 things, lose weight, stay the same weight, or gain weight. Based upon that you will know how many calories you should be taking in and its a simple as subtracting 10-20% from that depending on how fast you want to lose body fat.

Hope that answers your question.

malachi73
07-20-2010, 10:47 PM
Intermittent Fasting challenges bodybuilding’s nutritional dogma that in order to stay lean, muscular, and healthy, one must eat small, protein-containing meals every two to three hours.

If you are sick of carrying around several tuppaware boxes and need a psychological break from the traditional bodybuilding diet, Intermittent Fasting fits the bill nicely.

Get ready to have your nutritional world turned upside-down.

READ HERE (http://www.wannabebig.com/diet-and-nutrition/why-you-should-be-skipping-breakfast-the-secrets-of-intermittent-fasting/)

www.blog.mastermindstrengthbuilding.com

Rugg
07-21-2010, 09:36 AM
Agreed. Four hours without food and I get a severe headache...which only goes away about .5 hour or so after eating.

16 hours and I'd probably pass out.

im going to guess you're addicted to sugar. That used to happen to me until I cut out sugary snacks on a daily basis. I still eat them, I just dont eat it as much.

MJR
08-07-2010, 04:41 PM
I really WANT this early morning fasted training protocol to work. I train early in the morning and tried the 10g BCAA, but I always feel very low glycogen/weak and bonk during the workout. I never feel strong.

If I get ONE meal with some carbs/protein (even moderate in size), then I'm fine. I'd actually rather have an early dinner and move the entire eating window earlier in the day and avoid the whole fasted training thing (bcaa or not, makes no difference to me from a performance standpoint even if the MPS is elevated).

Just curious if anyone has experienced this with the BCAA/fasted training protocol. Like, I said, I love IF as long as I get one good meal in me preworkout. So IF is not the issue. Just the fasted/BCAA training.

wazzup
08-08-2010, 12:36 AM
I really WANT this early morning fasted training protocol to work. I train early in the morning and tried the 10g BCAA, but I always feel very low glycogen/weak and bonk during the workout. I never feel strong.

If I get ONE meal with some carbs/protein (even moderate in size), then I'm fine. I'd actually rather have an early dinner and move the entire eating window earlier in the day and avoid the whole fasted training thing (bcaa or not, makes no difference to me from a performance standpoint even if the MPS is elevated).

Just curious if anyone has experienced this with the BCAA/fasted training protocol. Like, I said, I love IF as long as I get one good meal in me preworkout. So IF is not the issue. Just the fasted/BCAA training.

how does your workout look volume-wise ?

I can hack it when I keep volume low... like a HIT workout, but when I do some volume I'm done pretty fast... I'll have to do the important stuff in the first half hour or so.Than again I ran (jogged) 17.5 km the other day on just some BCAA's.

MJR
08-09-2010, 12:13 AM
how does your workout look volume-wise ?

I can hack it when I keep volume low... like a HIT workout, but when I do some volume I'm done pretty fast... I'll have to do the important stuff in the first half hour or so.Than again I ran (jogged) 17.5 km the other day on just some BCAA's.

That's the thing. I can "hack it" with low volume, but the workouts are never enjoyable and I never FEEL strong. It would be like driving a car with the E-brake on. Yeah, you can still move the vehicle, but not as well. That's how I personally feel at least. I know others have reported MUCH different results, and frankly I guess, I'm a little envious because on paper, it looks so good to consume all your kcals postworkout, but I just can't get it to work in the real world.

I guess I just don't understand how some people can actually get BETTER performance from fasted (or just BCAA which is still pretty much fasted). What an awesome situation to be in! If you can train like this, MORE POWER TO YOU! :)

I'm not denying the research on this. I know it's there. If you have glycogen from the day before you should be fine to lift, but for some reason, that's never the case for me. I guess I'll just have to have a preworkout meal and start the feeding window earlier in the day.

I just wanted to see (out of curiosity) if I was the only one. Not a huge deal either way. I know everyone's different, like I said, I was just curious.

Thanks.

*Side note: I feel like one of the non-responders to creatine or something right now, haha.

Alex.V
08-11-2010, 11:01 AM
I'm not denying the research on this. I know it's there.

Except it's not, really. All you have are the regular handful of sketchy studies conducted with a clinically insignificant sample size that draws one shaky conclusion that may or may not directly conflict with another equally bad study.

The same sort of crappy science that leads to any number of whacked out ridiculous routines, diets, and supplements that takes message boards by storm and leads to a whole bunch of people jumping on bandwagons only to show zero benefit from them years later.

I think that's why I stopped reading message boards. The more I got involved in actual biochemistry and clinical trials, the less credibility these articles and studies started having. Fifty articles say eat every three hours. Fifty others say "Intermittent fasting is the way to go!". A hundred arguments have taken place as to which is better. NONE of them have any true, clinically relevant studies published in reputable peer-reviewed journals to back them up. (By peer-reviewed, I mean actual researchers, not Joe Shmoe the Interweb Training Guru)

Why not split the difference and just eat a few meals a day like a normal person and stop trying to second guess your body? I guarantee you'll end up, in the balance, with the same results (if not better) as all this other crap. Your leptin/ghrelin/HGH/insulin/whateverthehell levels might not be getting expertly manipulated by your clever diet plan, but I pretty much guarantee your body overall doesn't give a rat's ass.

Go back to the basics. Eat protein. Eat carbs. Eat fat. Lift. Do some cardio every now and then. Get some sleep. Do all these things on a fairly regular basis without going overboard. Spend your time reading the training articles on this website, not the 'bro science'.

And if you want to be huge, take three grams a week of test.

Bodybuilding in a nutshell.


***edited to add a smiley face to show I'm being helpful and cheery, not curmudgeonly. Look::: :)

Joe Black
08-11-2010, 11:16 AM
Go back to the basics. Eat protein. Eat carbs. Eat fat. Lift. Do some cardio every now and then. Get some sleep. Do all these things on a fairly regular basis without going overboard. Spend your time reading the training articles on this website, not the 'bro science'.

And if you want to be huge, take three grams a week of test.

Bodybuilding in a nutshell.


Ahh, how I have missed you buddy.. lol I hope you stick about and keep telling people how it is :)

If there is one thing to take from this article is that you don't need to get your panties all caught in a bunch because you had a meal less or you ate your breakfast 15 minutes late. It doesn't make ANY difference.

The key things are what Mr Belial said... Do them CONSISTENTLY and you'll see gains.

Now, if an IF approach allows you to be more consistent and fits with your lifestyle better - do it.

If you prefer to eat smaller meals and can be more consistent that way - do it.

Just make sure you eat what your supposed to each day, train hard, recover properly and you'll achieve your goals.

Alex.V
08-11-2010, 11:20 AM
If there is one thing to take from this article is that you don't need to get your panties all caught in a bunch because you had a meal less or you ate your breakfast 15 minutes late. It doesn't make ANY difference.

The key things are what Mr Belial said... Do them CONSISTENTLY and you'll see gains.


Aww, you missed me. How's things dannoe?

Tell you the truth, I was ready to slam the article until I actually read it and pretty much got the same out of it. It's not so much a "GO OUT AND TRY INARMITTENT FASTING LOLZ:" article as it is a "Hey, here's something to think about, draw your own conclusions" sort of thing, which is precisely why this is the only board and site I think I can come to. :)

arctic
11-05-2010, 08:02 AM
What are the estimated Macro Breakdowns % for Workout/Non-Workout days for Leangains?

I skimmed through this thread and browsed the site, didn't see it.

Rick John
11-11-2010, 09:42 PM
What are the estimated Macro Breakdowns % for Workout/Non-Workout days for Leangains?

Joe Black
11-12-2010, 01:39 AM
I'm not sure any are listed on the site. In any case, I think the way calories and proportioned and the timing of meals are the key aspects you can use what you're currently using macro wise.

Or you could contact Martin directly as he coaches people.

nhernan1986
04-30-2011, 11:29 AM
Ok, heard many ideas and I'm definitely intrigued. I love to eat so dieting has always been a dark time for me :bang: This Monday is week 9 (last week) of my Dysmorphia Training (DT) -> LOVED the workout btw. I have been on a calorie surplus this entire workout and have seen some good results. I started my bulking cycle at 6'2'' 220lbs 14%bf about 3 weeks before DT, continued the surplus throughout and now on the last week I'm at 227 15%bf. I started to cut about 1 1/2weeks ago. Short bulking cycle cause I started late (was on maintenance mode for about 3mo's). Bulking calories ranged from 4500-5000 cals. Now I cut them down to 2500-3000 and want to go lower. I'm trying to cut as much bf as possible while maintaining my mass (I'm sure this has been said a thousand times). I ingest a minimum of 1g of protein per body weight, and keep complex carbs and sugars to an absolute minimum.

I work 12hr shifts 2130(9pm)-0900(9am)-night shift- so my workout time is before work. This is most effective for me because I'm usually exhausted after work. *Keeping in mind that now I'm cutting so I added more cardio in addition to dieting. Meals: *All supplements from ALN*

1715: 5g BCAA+ / ETS
1730-1815: Fasted Cardio (burn between 800-1200cals) - Usually 15degree incline walk at 3.5 speed
1815: (Preworkout) Maximus shake (3scoops to keep cal's down until I receive my Nitrean+)
1830-2000 DT
2030: (Postworkout) Results / Opticen shake with 3 raw eggs added / multplus / fish oil
0130: Meal 1 + multplus / fish oil
0530: Meal 2 + multplus / fish oil
0800: Snack (Fruit or Veg) / ETS

**I'm waiting for my Nitrean+ to swap into the Preworkout instead of Maximus**

Let me know where you think I can improve. In about a 1 1/2 weeks of cutting I'm weighining in at 223...

af92
05-01-2011, 02:47 PM
Belial = One of the reasons I'm even here still. Straight up badass. Props to you sir.

Alex.V
05-03-2011, 09:12 PM
Belial = One of the reasons I'm even here still. Straight up badass. Props to you sir.

Always glad to spit the stuff I'm sure others might be thinking. :smoke:

Cheers.

Tamaon
05-04-2011, 09:17 PM
I've been doing IF for the last year and like it. The first week can suck as your body gets used to it, but the payoff if worth it. Prob not the best idea for a teen who wants to pack on mass ASAP, but it's great for the rest of us who want to loose fat and feel better. I feel very alert in the mornings now.

brian12
09-01-2011, 09:50 PM
Hi guys!

I'm doing IF and loving it. Im around 14% BF now, aiming to get down to around 10% mark, but my main focus is still to increase muscle mass. When I started training 6 years ago, my weight was 120lbs.. I'm now 198lbs! I did that by eating every 2/3 hours and drinking 5 meal replacements each day and forcing the food down and training 6 days a week with zero cardio. haha.. Looking back, I overtrained big time, but I was younger and my body responded well.

Now I'm following the 4 day split of HCT 12. Solid and simple program, I really like it.

I've got a question.. If I'm aiming to drop a few more % BF, how much cardio should I add to my routine? The HCT training is new for me (previously I did a 5 day split with a lower compound movement focus). I've been on IF for 2 months, and I've seen nice results and find that it's so easy to make the right food choices and no cheats with a limited eating window) Do you think if I add in some steady state walking (15-20 mins) on each of my training days that will be enough to continue burning fat? I suspect that the newish IF approach (with clean food, no cheats) and HCT12 training will be sufficient in itself to shed more BF?

Any ideas would be great!!! Thanks

Off Road
09-01-2011, 09:56 PM
It's all about the calories.

brian12
09-01-2011, 10:03 PM
Oh, one more thing - last week I added in 25-30 mins fast walk at the end of each training session, and this left me feeling over trained this week. Hence, my idea to drop it down to say just 15 minutes at the end of each training session. My eating window is 12am until 8pm - and I train at 5pm..

Any pointers to finishing that sweet spot where I'm still steadily (in no massive hurry) reducing BF while increasing muscle steadily - would be great!

brian12
09-01-2011, 10:03 PM
Typo* finishing = finding

brian12
09-01-2011, 10:05 PM
Off Road - I'm hitting around the 2700 calorie mark - my maintenance from experience is around 3000 (without any cardio).. If I drop the cardio and continue to focus on intense weight sessions - would that be sufficient to slow drop the BF?

Alex.V
09-02-2011, 06:36 AM
You said you're losing steadily as it is, why would you change anything? Or have you stagnated in weight/fat loss?

brian12
09-02-2011, 06:58 AM
Hi,

Yeah - I've made good progress using leangains.. but things have stagnated a bit. But i think with the introduction of HCT and a heavy 4 day compound focused training routine that I should start seeing a continued slow BF reduction. So i'm wondering if I should leave it up to diet and the HCT training to get rid of the last few % before I hit my target BF - or, if I should add in a short slow cardio session at the end of each training day?

I know it may well be beneficial to add in 10 minutes (to prevent blood pooling and DOMS), but should I up this to 20 minutes?

greemah
09-02-2011, 11:20 PM
Hi,

Yeah - I've made good progress using leangains.. but things have stagnated a bit. But i think with the introduction of HCT and a heavy 4 day compound focused training routine that I should start seeing a continued slow BF reduction. So i'm wondering if I should leave it up to diet and the HCT training to get rid of the last few % before I hit my target BF - or, if I should add in a short slow cardio session at the end of each training day?

I know it may well be beneficial to add in 10 minutes (to prevent blood pooling and DOMS), but should I up this to 20 minutes?

If you have just switched to the HCT-12 routine, make sure you stick with it - changing routines while cutting fat is a bad idea as you lose some intensity which isn't good when trying to maintain muscle.

If you have truly stalled in weight loss (scale weight fluctuates though so be sure you have truly stalled before changing anything), you can either drop your calories a bit or add some cardio. Make sure you are tracking your calories accurately too

brian12
09-03-2011, 08:02 AM
Yes, I'm sticking to it properly and really focusing on keeping my weight sessions intense.. Hence the reason I dont want to do any more cardio than I actually need.. I think I will leave things as is for the next two week and then consider adding in some cardio if needs be. I'm not in a huge rush to lose the last few BF%'s, my main focus is still muscle gain. Ideally I would like to be at 200lbs with 10%BF by the end of December.. I've been good with reaching goals over the last 5 years, but this will be the cherry on the top if I can hit that mark!

Thanks for the advice though!

thecityalive
09-03-2011, 09:28 AM
I don't agree with skipping breakfast at all.

chevelle2291
09-03-2011, 03:36 PM
I don't agree with skipping breakfast at all.

Did you even read the article?

thecityalive
09-03-2011, 03:50 PM
Yep and as far as IF goes, great concept, but I don't think I'd be able to do that. I get quite irritable w/o food.

chevelle2291
09-03-2011, 04:00 PM
Yep and as far as IF goes, great concept, but I don't think I'd be able to do that. I get quite irritable w/o food.

That's an entirely different argument than saying you don't 'agree' with it. Your first post made me think you were dismissing Berkhan's work as 'bullshit' and possibly detrimental.

That being said I failed hard when I tried to do IF. I can't eat the food I need within 8 hours, it takes me pretty much the whole day. I do think there's some sort of partitioning effect going on with IF, how much I don't know.

brian12
09-03-2011, 07:16 PM
Yeah, IF is not for everyone.

For me it definitely gives me a psycholigical advantage when it comes to food. I love the feeling of being full and I can look forward to it in my eating window. Also, because I need to eat a lot of calories during that time, i find it easy to stick to my oats, sweet potato, lean meats, veggies etc. The fasting period also changes one's mindset about snacking, and I dont crave that constant snacking like I used to. FOr me, this method is simple and easy, and I find it much easier to calculate my calorie intake and macro's accurately. I prepare two meals for work, and have one large meal at home after gym. With an adition of 3 or 4 protein shakes.

Of course there are many health benefits associated with this kind of fasting, as well as positive hormonal implications that promote better body composition..

But each to there own, it's good to try new things until you find what works best for you and you can then pbjectively weigh up your options (for training and nutrition). For the better part of 6 years I followed an 8 meals a day plan; I also experiment with the Anabolic diet for 5 months, following it to the T (which gave great results, but even though it is not supposed to, it increased my cholestrol big time). And I also experimented with a low fat diet (which was the worst - just resulted in sore joints and constant hunger). So for me, IF is the one!

greemah
09-04-2011, 06:12 PM
I started leangains IF about a year ago and never looked back. Slow bulked for over 6 months and kept fully defined abs which I have never got anywhere close to doing before doing IF

Behemoth
09-04-2011, 06:46 PM
Yeah, IF is not for everyone.

For me it definitely gives me a psycholigical advantage when it comes to food. I love the feeling of being full and I can look forward to it in my eating window. Also, because I need to eat a lot of calories during that time, i find it easy to stick to my oats, sweet potato, lean meats, veggies etc. The fasting period also changes one's mindset about snacking, and I dont crave that constant snacking like I used to.


I agree with the fact that it changes one's mindset on snacking. I would add to it that it IF also teaches one to be content while being hungry because there is a period each and every day when you're legitimately not hungry. With traditional dieting that just doesn't ever exist (at least it never did for me) so being mildly hungry for the first half of the day becomes completely tolerable.

brian12
09-05-2011, 06:51 AM
Some fasting benefits (I read on some health website):


Fasting promotes detoxification. As the body breaks down its fat reserves, it mobilizes and eliminates stored toxins.
Fasting gives the digestive system a much-needed rest. After fasting, both digestion and elimination are invigorated.
Fasting promotes the resolution of inflammatory processes, such as in rheumatoid arthritis.
Fasting quiets allergic reactions, including asthma and hay fever.
Fasting promotes the drying up of abnormal fluid accumulations, such as edema in the ankles and legs and swelling in the abdomen.
Fasting corrects high blood pressure without drugs. Fasting will normalize blood pressure in the vast majority of cases, the blood pressure will remain low after the fast, if the person follows a health-supporting diet and lifestyle.
Fasting makes it easy to overcome bad habits and addictions. Many people have overcome tobacco and alcohol addictions by fasting, and even drug addictions. Fasting rapidly dissipates the craving for nicotine, alcohol, caffeine and other drugs.
Fasting clears the skin and whitens the eyes. It is common to see skin eruptions clear while fasting, and the whites of the eyes never look so clear and bright as they do after fasting.
Fasting restores taste appreciation for wholesome natural foods. People say that their taste buds come alive after fasting and that food never tasted so good.
Fasting is the perfect gateway to a healthful diet and lifestyle. Going on a fast gives you the motivation and enthusiasm to make a fresh start.
Fasting initiates rapid weight loss with little or no hunger. Most people are surprised at how little desire for food they have while fasting.

Behemoth
09-05-2011, 10:43 AM
...yeah. Source please

thecityalive
09-05-2011, 01:19 PM
According to whom?

brian12
09-05-2011, 06:48 PM
Quoted from Dr. Cinque - he is frequent speaker in major health and anti-aging conferences. And runs a health fasting retreat.

Im not saying I agree with all the points, I was just reading it and found it interesting so I thought I would share with others, that's all.

I gather that these points, his views on benefits, are are related to longer fasting periods, not short term IF. But it's always nice to see ample possitive takes on a fasting lifestyle

Alex.V
09-06-2011, 07:07 AM
Dr Cinque? He's a damn chiro who sells HGH spray.

Those points are, honestly, baseless claims that teeter somewhere between intellectual bankruptcy and refried bullshit.

ThomasG
09-07-2011, 10:21 AM
Some fasting benefits (I read on some health website):


Fasting promotes detoxification. As the body breaks down its fat reserves, it mobilizes and eliminates stored toxins.
Fasting gives the digestive system a much-needed rest. After fasting, both digestion and elimination are invigorated.
Fasting promotes the resolution of inflammatory processes, such as in rheumatoid arthritis.
Fasting quiets allergic reactions, including asthma and hay fever.
Fasting promotes the drying up of abnormal fluid accumulations, such as edema in the ankles and legs and swelling in the abdomen.
Fasting corrects high blood pressure without drugs. Fasting will normalize blood pressure in the vast majority of cases, the blood pressure will remain low after the fast, if the person follows a health-supporting diet and lifestyle.
Fasting makes it easy to overcome bad habits and addictions. Many people have overcome tobacco and alcohol addictions by fasting, and even drug addictions. Fasting rapidly dissipates the craving for nicotine, alcohol, caffeine and other drugs.
Fasting clears the skin and whitens the eyes. It is common to see skin eruptions clear while fasting, and the whites of the eyes never look so clear and bright as they do after fasting.
Fasting restores taste appreciation for wholesome natural foods. People say that their taste buds come alive after fasting and that food never tasted so good.
Fasting is the perfect gateway to a healthful diet and lifestyle. Going on a fast gives you the motivation and enthusiasm to make a fresh start.
Fasting initiates rapid weight loss with little or no hunger. Most people are surprised at how little desire for food they have while fasting.

wat.

Alex.V
09-17-2011, 09:05 AM
Then, divide those calories into around 55 percent protein,

wtf.

Behemoth
09-17-2011, 10:45 AM
wtf.
60% of the time it works every time.

Derekflint
09-17-2011, 12:12 PM
Man, if I go > three hours w/o food I start feelin' like shit. Another hour or two and I get a headache. I'm gonna consult Kai Green for his opinion. LMAO. That's just me though. I'm sure Rambo could go a lot longer. The whole program doesn't seem suited to natural ectomorphs.

KristianT
09-22-2011, 04:53 PM
I have been giving this a try for the past week. I work a 9-5 job so the only really practical time for me to train is after work between 7-8. I dont like to train before work or during work because my body always remains quite hot after a training session which will make me sweat for the whole day during work.
I actually find it really easy to skip breakfast. I am usually very busy in the mornings anyway so I always have other things on my mind other than food. I just dont know how much of a benefit I will be getting from doing this because my big fast-breaking meal is not my post-workout meal. Although I can see how it could be a good way to keep your calories under control if you are trying to lean up. I have definitely made progress with my cut (only a few months away from summer here in Australia) in the past week that I have been on it, but I can't attribute my progress to the fasting because I was making solid progress even before trying this.

MarkCollins
09-23-2011, 12:49 PM
I also find it very easy to skip breakfast. I work in an office sitting down all morning, and there is really no need for my body to get nutrients. Does it work? I wouldn't know to be honest, it is a long time since I live/eat this way.

yayeti
09-26-2011, 10:05 PM
where can you find sample meals and diets that go with this program? can you lose fat or gain muscle equally well on this diet? do you just find what caloric level you want and get 1.5g protein/ lb bodyweight and fill the rest with carbs and fat?

greemah
09-27-2011, 12:33 AM
where can you find sample meals and diets that go with this program? can you lose fat or gain muscle equally well on this diet? do you just find what caloric level you want and get 1.5g protein/ lb bodyweight and fill the rest with carbs and fat?

This isn't really a set diet, just changes the meal timing, and calorie amounts per meal. Some protein levels have been set for some of the meals though (e.g. first meal on a rest day). Check out the Leangains Guide on leangains.com in the "popular" section for more info. If you know the calorie amount you need and have a rough idea of the macros it's easy to get on this diet

I personally have been on it for over a year and have never in my life been able to bulk for so long with such minimal fat gains, and the timing etc suits me perfectly but I work in an office also

yayeti
09-27-2011, 11:45 PM
I was under the impression that one reason BBers do 6+ meals instead of 3 is that you can only absorb so many nutrients at each meal. I guess this isn't true since so many people are having success with this plan. Would you mind posting one of your sample diets? Or does the leangains website have a page where people post their meals?

Alex.V
09-28-2011, 07:57 AM
you can only absorb so many nutrients at each meal.

This is quite false. Any meal you eat can take over 24 hours to be fully digested. Whether you eat 1 meal a day or 6, there will still be a constant release of some nutrients into your system. Granted, certain types of nutrients are absorbed quickly (such as sugars and amino acids from short chain polypeptides), but there's no true limit on absorption of these in healthy adults.

greemah
09-28-2011, 05:29 PM
I was under the impression that one reason BBers do 6+ meals instead of 3 is that you can only absorb so many nutrients at each meal. I guess this isn't true since so many people are having success with this plan. Would you mind posting one of your sample diets? Or does the leangains website have a page where people post their meals?

As long as your foods suit the calories/macros in the Leangains guide you should be ok. Fitday.com is a good tool to calculate all this (there are other good sites also if you don't like Fitday)

yayeti
09-28-2011, 05:57 PM
you said you have been bulking with minimal fat gains successfully with this diet. How did you setup your total calories and macros to achieve this?

greemah
09-28-2011, 08:10 PM
you said you have been bulking with minimal fat gains successfully with this diet. How did you setup your total calories and macros to achieve this?

Yes but that is doing a slow bulk, mainly looking at strength numbers as opposed to scale weight. The key for me was starting at maintenance calories then when progress stalls consistently, up it 200 calories per day. The 200 calorie increment lasts a fair while also before progress stalls consistently again. Also, it may not make much difference but Martin said he does something similar (I think) - I had extra cals on workout days then on the last rest day of my longest break I ate under maintenance so that daily calories for the week added up correctly.

Macro-wise, this is highly individual but I just had higher carbs on workout days and lower carbs on rest days, and had 100g protein with my first meal on rest days. This is all in the leangains guide though

I have bulked in a very similar fashion before, but since doing it with lean gains I have kept the bodyfat down majorly compared to other bulks I have done. I don't think I'll ever go back to a normal way of eating

yayeti
09-29-2011, 12:06 AM
Hey man I appreciate the replies. I couldn't find specifics in the guide it said the specifics are in his book. Is this something like you did:

I weigh 185

185x15 = 2775 = maintenance calories
subtract 500 calories to lose fat = 2275
185x1.5 = 277 = g protein needed per day; (1108 calories from protein)

2275-1108 = 1667 = calories to split between fat and carbs

Now my question is how should I split these remaining calories? Is this how you did it? Then when I want to bulk I will just add 200 calories until I hit a plateau then add 200 more.

When you say "so my week added up correctly" did you just calculate the daily calories x 7 and just made sure it came out to this number at the end of each week?

katewillson
09-29-2011, 07:31 AM
hey its very good article.

katewillson
09-29-2011, 07:33 AM
but in my opinion breakfast is very necessary...
you can take juice or fruit salad..
it will be very light and it gives energy too.

greemah
09-29-2011, 04:46 PM
Now my question is how should I split these remaining calories? Is this how you did it? Then when I want to bulk I will just add 200 calories until I hit a plateau then add 200 more.

You got it mate. With splitting the remaining calories, it doesn't really matter too much, but the guide recommends having higher carbs on training days and higher fats/lower carbs on off days. It doesn't give any more detail so interpret that how you like. Personally I just do about 70g fats on training days and about 110g on off days. However my body does ok on high carb even when trying to lose fat so the numbers are pretty individual


When you say "so my week added up correctly" did you just calculate the daily calories x 7 and just made sure it came out to this number at the end of each week?

Exactly right. I don't think the guide mentions doing anything this way (having a day under maintenance), but I read it from him somewhere else on the site. I haven't tried it without doing it this way so can't comment on how much of a difference it makes. Could always try both ways


but in my opinion breakfast is very necessary...
you can take juice or fruit salad..
it will be very light and it gives energy too.

Not sure if trolling?

claraeden1
05-25-2012, 03:26 AM
Good read! This is a perfect example of why the generally accepted knowledge about something isn't necessarily always the truth.

Big Dan
05-25-2012, 04:25 AM
Just because it works, doesn't mean its easier or better for you... No one knows the long term effects e.t.c.

But mainly, it would be pretty difficult to fast for 16 hours and still train! When I get back from the gym, I'm wanting food pretty much within the hour.

He states in the article "if you're sick of carrying around tupperware, try this" e.t.c. - I'd rather carry round a couple of tupperwares than not eat at all for 16 hours!

chevelle2291
05-25-2012, 08:58 AM
Just because it works, doesn't mean its easier or better for you... No one knows the long term effects e.t.c.

But mainly, it would be pretty difficult to fast for 16 hours and still train! When I get back from the gym, I'm wanting food pretty much within the hour.

He states in the article "if you're sick of carrying around tupperware, try this" e.t.c. - I'd rather carry round a couple of tupperwares than not eat at all for 16 hours!

Lotta guys train fasted and make good progress while doing IF.

Alex.V
05-25-2012, 10:35 AM
Which should make you realize that it's possible to make good progress while pretty much doing whatever the hell you want, as long as you're getting in the proper calories.

r2473
05-25-2012, 10:49 AM
Son-of-a-bitch. I gotta think of a "new way" to restrict calories that shows everyone that everything they think is "wrong".

Oh, and I have to be able to make money on it.

Selmervi
07-27-2012, 10:16 AM
Been using IF for 2 weeks now. I'm down from 202 to 189 and sticking closely to the rules in the IF website. I train fasted and eat my first meal at noon. The first week was rough but now my body has adapted. I feel more focused during my workout and I'm continuing to add weight to my lifts. I workout 3 times a week and basically train the big 3, bench, squats, and dead lift.

spinchien
07-28-2012, 03:14 AM
Great article. Now I'm off with the phrase "Breakfast is the most important meal of the day".

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