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gmen5681
07-09-2010, 04:13 PM
i was wondering why when you are just beginning and a novice your deadlift is higher than your squat, but then you see all the elite and pro lifters their squat is usually 150-200 lbs heavier than their deadlift. when and why does the change happen? is it because of the gear, or is it just because squat is golden lift and the deadlift is just a secondary lift to the squat so it gets trained more?

IronDiggy
07-09-2010, 04:19 PM
It's a gear thing. Many lifters esp multiply lifters get a ton of extra weight out of their gear while they may only get 50lbs out of a squat suit. I think it's actually pretty rare that someone has a higher raw squat than deadlift.

Lones Green
07-09-2010, 04:21 PM
It's a gear thing. Many lifters esp multiply lifters get a ton of extra weight out of their gear while they may only get 50lbs out of a squat suit. I think it's actually pretty rare that someone has a higher raw squat than deadlift.

You mean deadlift suit?

IronDiggy
07-09-2010, 04:27 PM
You mean deadlift suit?

Yea sorry, trying to answer calls while typing hah.

ehopkins932
07-09-2010, 04:29 PM
Its a geared thing if you are referring to geared lifting, like the guy above mentioned.

My raw squat is higher than my raw DL though (only by 5-10lbs), but most people are not like this.

gmen5681
07-09-2010, 05:05 PM
i figured it was a gear thing. thanks for the info guys.

JK1
07-10-2010, 01:40 AM
i figured it was a gear thing. thanks for the info guys.

Its not always "a gear thing"... thats a common excuse given but thats not always the case. My RAW squat is about 150-200 lbs more than my raw deadlift .

you also have to consider the lifters leverages and their proportions.

SEOINAGE
07-10-2010, 01:56 AM
gear may make a bigger difference in the squat, but many very advanced lifters are stronger in the squat than deadlift even raw, its usually the novice and intermediates that are the deadlift heavier than squat.

gmen5681
07-10-2010, 07:12 AM
its usually the novice and intermediates that are the deadlift heavier than squat.

why is that though?

Sensei
07-10-2010, 07:40 AM
I wrote this a while back - thought it was one of my better pieces:
Deadlift Stud, Squatting Dud: http://davedraper.com/blog/2009/09/16/deadlift-stud-squatting-dud/

IronDiggy
07-10-2010, 07:43 AM
Its not always "a gear thing"... thats a common excuse given but thats not always the case. My RAW squat is about 150-200 lbs more than my raw deadlift .

you also have to consider the lifters leverages and their proportions.

what the hell? how much do you squat? My squat is about 20lbs heavier than my deadlift. But I attribute that to my short legs and arms which makes hitting depth easy and pulling hard. But I'd never thought anyone would have a 150lbs difference.

joey54
07-10-2010, 08:01 AM
gear may make a bigger difference in the squat, but many very advanced lifters are stronger in the squat than deadlift even raw, its usually the novice and intermediates that are the deadlift heavier than squat.

Some examples? KK, Eferding come to mind as those with higher deadlifts to me.

rinse
07-10-2010, 08:08 AM
what the hell? how much do you squat? My squat is about 20lbs heavier than my deadlift. But I attribute that to my short legs and arms which makes hitting depth easy and pulling hard. But I'd never thought anyone would have a 150lbs difference.

Unless your nick name is Kingkong:) There has been a couple of supers with that big of diffrence but that is very rare.

muscle_g
07-10-2010, 08:54 AM
My buddy Troy Nash squats alot more raw than he deadlifts. His raw squat is a little over over 900 w/knee wraps and his raw dead's are a little over 700

SEOINAGE
07-10-2010, 08:56 AM
Some examples? KK, Eferding come to mind as those with higher deadlifts to me.


Unless your nick name is Kingkong:) There has been a couple of supers with that big of diffrence but that is very rare.

Yeah thats the funny part and kind of part of my observation. KK and Efferding are very lean, But many of the bigger guys are the ones with much higher squats than deadlift. I know as I have gotten stronger, I have increased a lot more in my squat as I have put on weight

Edit: I've even seen video of Louie saying you can squat more than you can deadlift and I don't think it was in the context of if you are in gear..

gmen5681
07-10-2010, 09:37 AM
Yeah thats the funny part and kind of part of my observation. KK and Efferding are very lean

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is this the same king kong as you are referring too? because that man is no where close to lean. lol

joey54
07-10-2010, 10:04 AM
Yeah thats the funny part and kind of part of my observation. KK and Efferding are very lean, But many of the bigger guys are the ones with much higher squats than deadlift. I know as I have gotten stronger, I have increased a lot more in my squat as I have put on weight

Edit: I've even seen video of Louie saying you can squat more than you can deadlift and I don't think it was in the context of if you are in gear..

It would make sense if one is larger, they could squat more raw than deadlift. The size makes it more of an advantage when in the hole, and more of a detriment getting down to the bar. It seems like leaner lifters raw deadlift more than the can squat, but if they weren't lean, they could probably increase their squat beyond their deadlift? But, the deadlift might start to suffer?

rinse
07-10-2010, 05:11 PM
Yeah thats the funny part and kind of part of my observation. KK and Efferding are very lean, But many of the bigger guys are the ones with much higher squats than deadlift. I know as I have gotten stronger, I have increased a lot more in my squat as I have put on weight

Edit: I've even seen video of Louie saying you can squat more than you can deadlift and I don't think it was in the context of if you are in gear..

But what are you talking about? Do you think KK squats more than he deadlifts? I even doubt that Efferding squats more than he deadlifts if he does get to use wraps(gear).

JK1
07-10-2010, 11:30 PM
what the hell? how much do you squat? My squat is about 20lbs heavier than my deadlift. But I attribute that to my short legs and arms which makes hitting depth easy and pulling hard. But I'd never thought anyone would have a 150lbs difference.

Most i've ever squatted in a meet is 855, but that was in single ply equipment and I ended up bombing in that meet because I couldn't get a damned deadlift in.

I've got a big barrel chest and gut with relatively short arms and legs on a long torso for my height. Like I said, I think lifter leverages play a HUGE role in how much they can deadlift.

SEOINAGE
07-11-2010, 08:57 AM
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is this the same king kong as you are referring too? because that man is no where close to lean. lol


But what are you talking about? Do you think KK squats more than he deadlifts? I even doubt that Efferding squats more than he deadlifts if he does get to use wraps(gear).

I was not implying that kk or efferding squats more than they deadlift. And I was not calling king kong lean. Both of you took what I said backwards.