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View Full Version : Question for vdizenzo and other experienced guys



Kong
07-22-2010, 06:22 PM
I'm soon coming off a cut and am wanting to up the calories for a while and pack on some more size and strength. I've been following a 4 day split combining strength and hypertrophy rep ranges, basically working up to a 3rm on the main lift then 2x5 and 2x8 on assistance work.
Basically i'm wanting to try a Westside style of training but with more hypertrophy work and if possible would also like to incorporate ME overhead press work but am finding it difficult to think of how to incorporate it all especially without overtraining being an issue. I've just got my first pair of bands (only a pair of minis) which i've yet to use properly.

I was thinking something like

Day 1 - ME Bench/ME Overhead Press & Upper Body Assistance
ME Bench/ME Overhead Press
Chest
Row
Triceps
Upper Back
Bis

Day 2 - ME Squat/Deadlift & Lower Body Assistance
Quads
Posterior Chain/Hamstrings
Abs
Calves
HIIT

Day 3 - DE Bench & Upper Body Hypertrophy
DE Bench 8x3 @ 50-60%
Chest
Triceps
Pullups
Delts
Biceps

Day 4 - DE Squat/Deadlift & Lower Body Hypertrophy
DE Box Squat 10x2 @ 50-60%
DE Deadlift 6x1 @ 60-70%
Quads
Posterior Chain/Hamstrings
Abs
Calves
HIIT

Rep ranges for assistance exercises (Days 1 & 2) would probably be 3x5 and for hypertrophy exercises 3x8-12.

Any input would be greatly appreciated.

I would also like to know people's ME lifts of choice and if i should always use the bands on my DE work.

For ME Bench work i was thinkin flat bench, dead press (off pins in the rack), floor press and pause bench.
For ME Overhead - Military Press, Push Press, Seated Press and partial press (off pins)
For ME DL Squat - Squats, Front Squats, Box Squats, Partial Squats off pins, Deficit Deadlift, Good Mornings, Deadlift and Rack Pull (from knees)

slashkills
07-23-2010, 08:09 AM
why not just put OH press into rotation with your other ME movements? if you did it each week you would burn out. If you do decide to max on bench and OH press each week i recommend staying away from bands because they will kill your recovery.

Maybe you could try doing a 531 style OH press day or adding it to your DE day?

Kong
07-23-2010, 10:48 AM
Thanks mate. What about this then?

ME Bench 5/3/1
Chest - Dips 3x5
Row - 4x5
Delts - 3x8
Upper back - Face Pull 3x10
Tris - CG Bench 3x5
Bis - BB Curls 3x5

DE Box Squat 10x2 (50-60%)
DE DL 6x1 (60-70%)
Quad - Front Squat 3x8
Lower Back/Hamstrings - Leg Curls 3x12
Abs - Decline Situps 3x12
Calves - Calf Press 3x8
HIIT

DE Bench 8x3 (50-60%)
Chest - Low-Incline DB Bench 3x8
Pullup - 4xmax
Military Press 5/3/1
Upper Back - DB Shrugs 3x8
Tris - DB Skullcrushers 3x8
Bis - DB Preachers 3x8

ME Squat 5/3/1/ME Deadlift 5/3/1
Quads - Pause Hacks 3x5
Lower Back/Hamstrings - SLDL 3x5
Abs - Wood Cutters 3x12
Calves - Standing Raises 3x12
HIIT

Instead of following wendlers protocol i'll be working to a true 5/3/1rm then deloading on the fourth week.

jbrin0tk
07-23-2010, 10:50 AM
Travis or someone more familiar with it, correct me if I am wrong, but I believe that a lot of Westside programming is geared towards hypertrophy in the sense that most of the assistance exercises (chest supported rows, reverse hypers, triceps extensions) are done using the repetition method. Don't worry about over training so much. It's not as easy as you may think to do, and you will probably know if you are over trained.

As far as 3 x 5 on ME days and 3 x 8-12 on DE days, I personally would do something more like this:


ME Lower

Free Squat to a 1-3 RM
Rack Pulls 3 x 5
Lunges 3 x 8-12
Glute Ham Raise 3 x 8-12
Abs 5 x 8-15
Cardio (whatever you like)

And that's it. If you try to do every exercise after the main one as 3 x 5 you will probably burn out faster. Keep in mind that a "x5" load is still probably going to be fairly heavy, especially for assistance work.

AdamBAG
07-23-2010, 11:19 AM
It seems like way too much on each day in my opinion. I tend to keep the volume down I guess. You can always rotate the exercises in. You don't have to do them every workout.

The following is generally what I've done and I've put on 40 pounds in the last three years, almost all WSB training.

Max Effort Lower
- ME Movement: rotating squat/GM/deadlift
- GHR/45 Ext./Rev. Hyper/Pullthroughs etc. - Pick 1 to 2 for 5 sets of 10
- Abs - 1 exercise for 5 sets of 10

Max Effort Upper
- ME Movement
- Lockout Work: 4 or 5 board or Rack Lockouts - 3 sets of 5 or up to a heavy set of 5
- Row - 1 movement 5 sets of 10
- Side/Rear Delt/Traps/Rotators - 1 or 2 exercises 5 sets of 10
- Abs - 1 exercise for 5 sets of 10

Dynamic Effort Lower
- Dynamic Squat - 6-12 sets of 2 depending on contrast method
- Supplemental Deadlift: Romanians, Speed Pulls, Rack Pulls (nothing to a max)
- GHR/45 Ext./Rev. Hyper/Pull Through Etc. - 1 or 2 exercises for 5 sets of 10
- Abs - 1 exercise for 5 sets of 10

Dynamic Effort Upper
- DE Bench - 9 sets of 3 reps, varying contrast
- Supplemental Press: DB Bench, OHP, Floor Press Etc. - Usually 3-5 x 10, but you could go 5s here.
- Pullups/Chinups - 5 sets of 10 or try to beat a rep record etc.
- Tricep Extensions - 5 sets of 10
- Side/Rear/Rotator/Trap - 5 sets of 10

Kong
07-23-2010, 12:17 PM
Thanks a lot Adam...what ME lifts do you recommend and do you always work up to singles?

martin
07-23-2010, 12:20 PM
OH press isn't greatly technical neither does it involve anything the bench doesn't so there is no need for seperate days.

Personally I'd just use an OH pressing exercises as my assistance work on ME and DE Upper day for 5-7 / 12-15 reps, then maybe add in an OH press as one of your ME rotations.

M

AdamBAG
07-23-2010, 12:35 PM
Thanks a lot Adam...what ME lifts do you recommend and do you always work up to singles?

Some people aren't comfortable doing singles on GMs so they do heavy 3s or 5s. Nothing wrong with that at all in my opinion. For squats and deadlifts usually singles. For bench usually singles.

As far as exercise selection you just need to figure out what you think is best. There are truly too many options to list. I just don't recommend using the competition lifts. Use a variation on the competition lifts. For example, don't work up to a max deadlift single. Work up to a max single on the dealift, but with 80lbs of chain. Don't take a max bench press single. Work up to a close grip single instead.

It's hard to say "do these exercises" b/c I don't know your weaknesses or what equipment you have available.

You should check out Wild Iron Gym's log on here. They follow a WSB template and there are usually videos. That would be a good place to find ideas.

Kong
07-23-2010, 01:08 PM
I've got use of an adjustable power rack so i can do partial movements, a 6" block for platform pulls and just got a pair of mini bands. Thinking of going with Floor Press, CG Bench, Band Bench, Reverse Band Bench for ME Upper. And for ME lower Good Mornings, GMs with bands, GMs with reverse bands. Rack Pulls from knee, Platform pulls, Band Deadlift, Reverse Band Deadlift, Box Squat, Band Squat and Reverse Band Squat. Which out of these do you feel would be most productive?

AdamBAG
07-23-2010, 01:17 PM
That's the beauty of the conjugate method. You just try it an find out. What works for you may not work for me.

I will say that there are days at BAG that we came up with some exercise, hated it, and never did it again. Others we came up with became keepers.

Most of what you listed sound like good, solid exercises. I'm not crazy about GMs against bands, but give it a go if you want. I've never tried it.

You might consider getting some light bands and average bands. That would give you a ton of options.

Kong
07-23-2010, 02:48 PM
Thanks a lot mate