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View Full Version : modifying 5/3/1, opinions please.



gmen5681
07-31-2010, 07:33 PM
i know Jim is completely against this, but im thinking about changing up the routine and see what other people think. really all i want to do is on the 3rd week, or the 5/3/1 week, when its time for the 1 rep, instead of doing the prescribed 1 set as many times as i can, actually working up to a 1RM. once i find that 1RM using that number for week 1 and 2 for the next cycle.

the other thing im thinking of doing is rolling right into the next cycle with no deload week. taking a deload every 6 weeks instead of every 3. i seem to be recovering quickly and see no reason to take a deload every 3 weeks. but im also wondering that if i actually work up to a 1rm every cycle that i may need that deload week every 3 weeks.

for those that are familiar with the routine this should make since, i hope.

ehopkins932
07-31-2010, 08:08 PM
Neither one of those things is a good idea, and at that point it isnt even the 5/3/1. It would basically have you doing ME work every workout, and no deload for 6 weeks. Unless you have fantastic recovery or are DRASTICALLY limiting assistance, then it probably won't work.

Sean S
07-31-2010, 08:36 PM
This really defeats the whole purpose behind the program. If you want to work up to a heavy single (but not a true 1RM) on the 5/3/1 week, that would be fine. But for the next cycle add 10 lbs. to your training max for lower body lifts and 5 lbs. for upper body. Wendler himself has been asked about a million times about this and whether the new 1RM should be used for the next cycle and 100% of the time he says to stay the course with the 5 or 10 lb. increases. Remember the point of this program is to build momentum over a long period of time. I would also recommend the deload every third week, especially if you are working up to heavy singles on occasion.

gmen5681
07-31-2010, 09:23 PM
Neither one of those things is a good idea, and at that point it isnt even the 5/3/1. It would basically have you doing ME work every workout, and no deload for 6 weeks. Unless you have fantastic recovery or are DRASTICALLY limiting assistance, then it probably won't work.

it wouldnt be ME every workout. only once a month. the 3rd week i would work up to a max single. then 1st and 2nd i would leave it as the program is. as for assistance im using the BBB format. and it really is still the 5/3/1 i would just be doing a heavy single once a month.

gmen5681
07-31-2010, 09:26 PM
This really defeats the whole purpose behind the program. If you want to work up to a heavy single (but not a true 1RM) on the 5/3/1 week, that would be fine. But for the next cycle add 10 lbs. to your training max for lower body lifts and 5 lbs. for upper body. Wendler himself has been asked about a million times about this and whether the new 1RM should be used for the next cycle and 100% of the time he says to stay the course with the 5 or 10 lb. increases. Remember the point of this program is to build momentum over a long period of time. I would also recommend the deload every third week, especially if you are working up to heavy singles on occasion.

that is exactly what i was trying to explain. the reason im asking is because according to the program my 1rm on squat is like 275 or something like that. and i just worked up to 305 with some ease today just to see what i could do. i know it isnt amazing numbers, but i was very happy with what i did. i just feel like i would be benefiting from lifting heavier in each lift once a month rather than going for PR in reps.

ehopkins932
07-31-2010, 09:42 PM
it wouldnt be ME every workout. only once a month. the 3rd week i would work up to a max single. then 1st and 2nd i would leave it as the program is. as for assistance im using the BBB format. and it really is still the 5/3/1 i would just be doing a heavy single once a month.

It would be. Say your squat max is 305 like you said. If you use that as your max instead of the 10% off then adding 10lbs a cycle like it should be, you be doing 260x5 and 275x3, then working up to a max single for the 3rd week. Those sets would be near max for that rep range, correct?

Start light like he says...Ive done 9 cycles and 80lbs on my squat. Starting light and picking your battles is how to make this program work.

DMedley
08-01-2010, 04:58 AM
i seem to be recovering quickly and see no reason to take a deload every 3 weeks. but im also wondering that if i actually work up to a 1rm every cycle that i may need that deload week every 3 weeks.

I do not see a problem with attempting the 1 rm during the 3rd week, now and then. Jim discussed this some place on line. He did not recommend doing it every cycle or even 2 cycles.

Skipping the deload seems like a good idea, when you are recovering well, that is what the program was designed to allow. Skip the deload every other time, your recovery could go in the crapper.

The other problem that you could face is the bigger increase every cycle. You might keep up during the 1 rep range and even the 3 rep range, but out run your 5 rep range.

Cmanuel
08-01-2010, 08:42 AM
Bad idea like all the others have said.

You just need to learn how to be patient with the program. Are you getting stronger in all the lifts? If so then why do you feel the need to change anything? You are looking at probably 70-80 lbs on your squat in a year if you run 531 like its written, whats wrong with that?

StLRPh
08-01-2010, 09:22 AM
You may want to look into the Matt Rhodes version. It has some heavy singles work in it while still keeping everything else in line with Jim's original premise.

This is a spreadsheet that has it:
http://www.wannabebig.com/forums/showthread.php?135578-Wendler-s-5-3-1-and-variations&highlight=Wendler%27s+5%2F3%2F1

Also can search at Elite's Q&A to find the original thread if you want more info.

Good luck,

Clover
08-01-2010, 09:36 AM
I would just work up to a 1RM every three months or so to see where you are.

gmen5681
08-01-2010, 09:41 AM
thanks for the advise everyone. im just gonna stick to the normal program like everyone says and do heavy singles every 3 months just to see where im at, but stick to the original numbers.

K-R-M
08-01-2010, 12:28 PM
Well, since this is a 5-3-1 thread, I might as well ask the question here. I tried keeping it relatively simple like Wendler said, so with the assistance work I simply do quads, hams/back, abs on the two lower body days and chest/shoulders,lats, triceps on the upper body day.

That said, I'd like to add in some high rep DB rows on the bench day, just 1 set or 2 at the end to work the grip and do a few chin ups in between pressing mouvements on press day. Too much, or is this fine?

nickp8
08-01-2010, 12:46 PM
Well, since this is a 5-3-1 thread, I might as well ask the question here. I tried keeping it relatively simple like Wendler said, so with the assistance work I simply do quads, hams/back, abs on the two lower body days and chest/shoulders,lats, triceps on the upper body day.

That said, I'd like to add in some high rep DB rows on the bench day, just 1 set or 2 at the end to work the grip and do a few chin ups in between pressing mouvements on press day. Too much, or is this fine?

You need to be a little more specific as to what you are actually doing, but there wouldn't be a problem adding those especially if your back work is as limited as you make it seem.

nickp8
08-01-2010, 12:50 PM
thanks for the advise everyone. im just gonna stick to the normal program like everyone says and do heavy singles every 3 months just to see where im at, but stick to the original numbers.

Gmen, I wouldn't even recommend doing a max single every 3 months. I would do it more like every 6 months. If you stick to it like it is written you won't have any problems and will continue to get stronger. I have been using it for 2 years and I have tried what you are talking about. It didn't work out well.

gmen5681
08-01-2010, 01:38 PM
Gmen, I wouldn't even recommend doing a max single every 3 months. I would do it more like every 6 months. If you stick to it like it is written you won't have any problems and will continue to get stronger. I have been using it for 2 years and I have tried what you are talking about. It didn't work out well.

thanks

ScottYard
08-01-2010, 02:19 PM
Heres what I do. Ill do 531 then instead of deloading the 4th week Ill go up to a single, then Ill deload. It makes it a 5 week minicycle but oh well. Also sometimes Ill do everything as planned but on week one Ill just do the set of 5 then work up to a single. I only do this if a meet is close though.

gmen5681
08-01-2010, 04:08 PM
Heres what I do. Ill do 531 then instead of deloading the 4th week Ill go up to a single, then Ill deload. It makes it a 5 week minicycle but oh well. Also sometimes Ill do everything as planned but on week one Ill just do the set of 5 then work up to a single. I only do this if a meet is close though.

you do the 5 week cycle of 5/3/1 everytime or only when coming up to a meet? also i sent you a pm to get some more info out of ya.
thanks
joe

hulk242
08-02-2010, 07:25 AM
What I did that helped me was doing the weight I was to do and doing it for reps. I would leave a few in the tank and do something like a rev band max. Then the next week I would deload and start back over.

Adam Hires

ScottYard
08-02-2010, 04:25 PM
you do the 5 week cycle of 5/3/1 everytime or only when coming up to a meet? also i sent you a pm to get some more info out of ya.
thanks
joe

Only with a meet close woll I do this, not every cycle.

shocker4221
08-03-2010, 08:50 AM
I'm like everyone else and wants to get the most out of any workout and gain strength, but I have asked around a lot about tweeking the 5/3/1 and most of the responses are the same. I've noticed that my body responds well after a deload week and I don't have as much joint pain the rest of the cycle. I think I may try like several have suggested, working up to or clost to 1 rm after doing the main lifts, but not every cycle.

ironwill727
08-03-2010, 09:20 AM
I have been using heavy singles on the 5-3-1 week not on every exercise though. Then the next cycle I add 10lbs to that heavy single. I find it helpful to get used to heavy weight. One of the great things about 5-3-1 is that you can do basically whatever you want for assistance work.