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H_M
08-02-2010, 05:55 PM
i did some deadlifting tonight and was hoping for a pr but nothing happened. i've been stalling below the knees for years now. i can finish the lift once i get it past my knees.

for the past year i've been doing rack pulls from below the knees (varying heights) and rack pulls with bands. my raw deadlift has gone up 60lbs but my it's done nothing for my equipped deadlift.

does anyone have advice for how i can fix this problem?

here's a video from tonight:

rvW366MEsMw

one thing i notice is that my hips come up when the weight leaves the ground causing my shoulders to come forwards. could this be causing the bar to drift away from me? how can i fix this?

gmen5681
08-02-2010, 06:24 PM
it looks like you need to work on speed. even on the much lighter you dont have a lot of speed off the floor. maybe try some deficit pulls on a plate or two?

Sean S
08-02-2010, 08:05 PM
The first thing to fix is lingering over the bar so long before you pull. Get tight, get your grip, dip your hips and pull. The other thing I see is that it looks to me like you may be trying to drop your hips too low for your starting position. You are almost trying to full squat the bar off the ground. You don't want to stiff-leg it, but you don't have to drop as far as you do. I'm weaker off the floor if I drop my hips too far with a sumo pull. Experiment with some higher starting hip positions and see if you get better speed off the floor. Take some time to experiment with some moderate weights and see if those are faster and feel better.

abbcccxyyzzz
08-03-2010, 07:18 AM
I second Sean S, looks like you were somewhat squatting it up. You could try turning your feet outward more and getting your hips closer to the bar. Since your stalling at midshin, you should do some sort of good morning to work out that part of the lift. Your explosion was not there either, you can do some conventional deadlifts and work on blasting your hips forward (to get use to doing some a movement) and then it carries over to sumo.

Travis Bell
08-03-2010, 08:01 AM
Are you lifting in your basement or something?

Just looks like you're concerned about the amount of noise you make. Grip that sucker and rip into it!

Speed pulls might help as well. Have you ever thought about training conventional for awhile and then comming back to your sumo to see if it helps?

Learning2Lift
08-03-2010, 11:32 AM
Are you lifting in your basement or something?

Just looks like you're concerned about the amount of noise you make. Grip that sucker and rip into it!

Speed pulls might help as well. Have you ever thought about training conventional for awhile and then coming back to your sumo to see if it helps?

Now I am no great puller, but this is what Travis had me do and I've added 40lbs to my DL since January.

I do all my rack pulls conventional and most of the time the bands are quaded. Also how often do you pull from the floor? I was doing it weekly before working with Travis and now only about every 4wks. Most of the time its all done with varying heights in the rack.

H_M
08-03-2010, 03:01 PM
it looks like you need to work on speed. even on the much lighter you dont have a lot of speed off the floor. maybe try some deficit pulls on a plate or two?

i haven't done speed pulls in a long time but i can definitely see what you mean. i've never paid much attention to bar speed because i can grind out almost anything but after watching other videos, i can tell that i am really slow.


The first thing to fix is lingering over the bar so long before you pull. Get tight, get your grip, dip your hips and pull. The other thing I see is that it looks to me like you may be trying to drop your hips too low for your starting position. You are almost trying to full squat the bar off the ground. You don't want to stiff-leg it, but you don't have to drop as far as you do. I'm weaker off the floor if I drop my hips too far with a sumo pull. Experiment with some higher starting hip positions and see if you get better speed off the floor. Take some time to experiment with some moderate weights and see if those are faster and feel better.

i've tried higher starting positions before but i get way too far forwards and it feels very awkward. then again, i never spent more than a month at it. i've always thought that the best way to pull sumo was to stay upright and to keep your hips low (like squatting the weight up).

i'll spend the next while working on my hips and speeding up my setup. i'll put a video up next week when i deadlift.


I second Sean S, looks like you were somewhat squatting it up. You could try turning your feet outward more and getting your hips closer to the bar. Since your stalling at midshin, you should do some sort of good morning to work out that part of the lift. Your explosion was not there either, you can do some conventional deadlifts and work on blasting your hips forward (to get use to doing some a movement) and then it carries over to sumo.

i'll look up some goodmorning movements tonight and see what i can dig up. i've been doing goodmornings once a week since my last meet but i've been taking it easy on them.


Are you lifting in your basement or something?

Just looks like you're concerned about the amount of noise you make. Grip that sucker and rip into it!

Speed pulls might help as well. Have you ever thought about training conventional for awhile and then comming back to your sumo to see if it helps?

i've been mixing it up for the past year or so. pretty much 3 weeks pulling off different heights with conventional stance and the fourth pulling off the floor. sometimes i pull sumo and sometimes i pull conventional off the floor (50/50). it's put 60lbs on my raw deadlift but nothing on my equipped. i do rack pulls with bands 90% of the time.

and yea, i'm in the basement. i don't want to damage the concrete floor when putting the weight down. it's one of those 1000 year old houses. i'll get a horse mat or something.


Now I am no great puller, but this is what Travis had me do and I've added 40lbs to my DL since January.

I do all my rack pulls conventional and most of the time the bands are quaded. Also how often do you pull from the floor? I was doing it weekly before working with Travis and now only about every 4wks. Most of the time its all done with varying heights in the rack.

i usually pull off the floor once every 4 weeks. i vary my rack heights and band tensions too. what kind of bands are you using?


thanks for the input guys. i'll do my homework and put something together. i'll post another video next week for more critique.

Travis Bell
08-03-2010, 04:47 PM
the only other thing I can think of is that it could be your gear is just too tight?

I have no experience pulling in gear so take this with a grain of salt, but a couple of guys at Westside have had issues in the past with when the gear gets tight it pulls them out of position they said and just screws things up.

Get some rubber mats! that should protect your floor

H_M
08-04-2010, 07:11 PM
i don't think the gear is too tight. i can feel when the bottoms aren't on right cause they won't let me get my knees out. the garbage bags really help with this.

i watched a bunch of videos last night. i remembered a clip from bigger stringer faster where chuck v sets up for deadlifts and rips the weight off the floor. i watched a video from tampa barbell where they were deadlifting --> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jdsNmT945t4 <-- and tried pulling like the guy at 0:27 in the video. i tried pulling like that and being faster with my set up. i noticed that my hips stayed higher when i didn't take so long setting up.

this is the video from last night:
I5l_N-G3RvU

it was the same weight that i failed with two days ago but this time it felt like i had another 10lbs - 15lbs left in the tank (it was also a 7lb pr in briefs). i think it's cause of the speed, which is something i'll definitely work on much more from now on. the biggest thing i noticed was that pulling like this really fried my middle back and my erectors (something that never happen before).

thanks for the help everyone. i'll keep this thread updated periodically and clean up my form too.

Sean S
08-04-2010, 07:19 PM
Those pulls look better in my opinion. It's not surprising they hit your back a little harder since you are slightly less upright (but still OK) than with your hips lower. Just make sure you get your back locked in and get your air before you pull (not that you aren't now, it's just something you need to make sure of with a quick set-up). I always prefer to get my air before I drop down to get the bar.

abbcccxyyzzz
08-05-2010, 06:27 AM
If you're interested in watching some more deadlift videos... I assembled a playlist over the past 2 years of some of the best sumo deadlifts period

http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=589185E71E2E9E55

go there to watch it.


For good mornings, (to each his own) but I prefer a seated low-bar good morning.

Best

H_M
08-05-2010, 03:03 PM
that's an awesome play list. i'll watch them tonight

H_M
12-12-2010, 08:04 AM
i wanted to update this and thank everyone for the advice. i pulled 565 in briefs the other week. this is a 9lb pr for me over my best in breifs+suit and a 47lbs pr in briefs. the grip & rip really helped me get through my sticking point at mid shin.

pSM-Rcz_l9Y

NickAus
12-13-2010, 02:27 PM
Nice work!!

theBarzeen
12-13-2010, 06:06 PM
I have the same sticking point..... I've moved 700 from the floor, and I can pull mid 900's above the knee ( no straps!) but I stick at the knees too.... stuck at 650 now.

I've been really lucky to have the Lilliebridges ( sp? sorry Eric) come out to lift several times in the last couple of weeks and they have really helped me get my pull moving...... specifically, Ernie Sr. recommended doing a lot more direct quad work. Narrow ( shoulder width) squats with feet straight forward and some leg press set up about the same..... I've seen my pull go up a lot in the last few weeks..... either from the quad work or from the mental help of knowing that if I miss a 650 pull in full gear Ernie Jr will pull it raw like a warm up..... YOu could always try the quad work and see if it helps you too....

Just my $0.02 from your video though..... it looks like you are dropping your hips really low, which works great if you keep upright like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FUWdSU-6Tw8

This is how most of the Frantz guys who pull sumo pull..... ( most of us just not so much weight, Jose is a freak) Low hips, close to the bar, as upright as possible.....

but it looks like you hunch over a little ( on the first video ) which could be robbing your pull.... it might just be too much gear, or you might not be pushing your knees out hard enough and pushing your hips forward hard enough.....

The second video looked a lot better, you just dropped your hips and pulled.... got some rebound and better bar speed from it

Nice work.....

chris mason
12-13-2010, 07:03 PM
If you are getting stuck lower than your knees it is your glutes, hams, and hips (one or all) that are limiting you.

Low box squats for ME with bands would be good in my opinion.

What accessory work do you do for those muscles?

H_M
12-13-2010, 09:19 PM
i do a ME goodmorning variation once a week for hamstrings & lower back. i squat off a parallel box with a slightly wider than shoudler width stance (toes pointed forwards) twice a week. i usually stick to free weights with these and don't really use bands all that much when i'm squatting raw. it's mostly linear periodization and reps of 5 because my raw squat has really started to take off since i started doing this.

i've never worked my glutes before because i've never really knewn how to. all i have right now is a power rack, bench, bar, weights, and bands. do you know any exercises that i could do to work my glutes with the limited equipment that i have?

i can pop 585-600 up to about 3" below my knees and it's like hititng a wall. the weight won't go any higher.

NickAus
12-13-2010, 09:58 PM
Glutes ideas: SLDL, Sumo SLDL, Romanian deads, band pullthroughs wide stance.....

Cant think of anything else right now but others will have some ideas.