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DelveyBoy
05-12-2002, 01:42 AM
my mum wants to lose a few pounds. so i told her she needs a diet and cardio.But she is convinced that weights would be better for her.The problem witj that she has a bad spine, so is restricted.Is cardio better for her or weights.

martijn
05-12-2002, 02:25 AM
Maybe she has to consult a sports doctor. She can train with weights, but most be carefull with exercises, a specially when the back is involved.
When you want to loss a few pounds with training instead of cardio you will have to training with sets of heigh reps(like 15 or more per set).

DelveyBoy
05-12-2002, 05:20 AM
shes seeing a doctor at the moment about it.i was doing deadlifts this morning, and when she tried, she nearly collapsed

martijn
05-12-2002, 06:17 AM
Maybe she must begin with less weight. deadlifting is not a exercise for ppl who just begin with training.

jock
05-12-2002, 08:43 AM
When you want to loss a few pounds with training instead of cardio you will have to training with sets of heigh reps(like 15 or more per set).
But does this not then amount to the same thing as cardio? i.e. aerobic activity using resistance.
If your mum adds a few pounds of muscle to herself then this could translate to burning an extra 100 or so cals a day. Therefore, your mother is quite to correct to do this.

Tiare
05-12-2002, 08:53 AM
http://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/press/2001/JUNE/010605.htm

Jane
05-12-2002, 09:16 AM
Originally posted by martijn
When you want to loss a few pounds with training instead of cardio you will have to training with sets of heigh reps(like 15 or more per set).
This is completely wrong. Please, don't have your mom do more than 6-10 reps.
Lifting maintains muscle mass while dieting, so weight training is an absolute necessity for her. But a doctor check is mandatory beforehand to figure out which exercises are suitable.

The best way for her to lose fat weight would be to:
1. have a healthy diet.
2. weight train
3. do some cardio

Diet is most important, weight traing is needed to maintain Lean Body Mass (the more LBM, the higher your metabolism), and cardio will slightly speed up the process depending on how often it is done. Start her slow, make small changes and let her get used to them, and remember that this is a lifestyle, not a temporary pre-summer fling.

martijn
05-12-2002, 09:29 AM
Originally posted by Jane

Lifting maintains muscle mass while dieting, so weight training is an absolute necessity for her. But a doctor check is mandatory beforehand to figure out which exercises are suitable.


That is wrong.. you can not loss weight and main muscle mass. When you are on a dieet, you will loss muscle mass and bodyfat.

Jane
05-12-2002, 09:31 AM
I did not say to maintain ALL muscle mass. But weight traning IS necessary to minimize muscle loss, therefore preserving lean body mass, as I said.

martijn
05-12-2002, 09:38 AM
But you are still wrong, because by training you will not get bigger muscle cells, only thing that helps to minimize muscle loss is a high protein diet, and a good night sleep.

Tiare
05-12-2002, 09:51 AM
Originally posted by martijn


That is wrong.. you can not loss weight and main muscle mass. When you are on a dieet, you will loss muscle mass and bodyfat.

Someone with a low body fat may not be able to lose fat and gain muscle, but there is significant clinical evidence that someone with medium or high body fat can gain muscle mass while losing fat content (net body weight decrease with a net increase in lean mass).

martijn
05-12-2002, 09:59 AM
Yeah, and for every significant clinical evidence that says a, you can find another one that says b. Therefore you rather listen to the experience of ppl in the gym. Most ppl will loss muscle mass when they are on a diet, and most ppl will bulk and cut.

Jane
05-12-2002, 12:20 PM
Originally posted by martijn
But you are still wrong, because by training you will not get bigger muscle cells, only thing that helps to minimize muscle loss is a high protein diet, and a good night sleep.

No, I'm not wrong. If you read my statements more carefully you would see that I NEVER said your muscle cells would grow bigger, nor did I suggest that one could lose fat and grow muscle at the same time (though this IS possible in rare cases). If the only way to minimize muscle loss was through high protein diets and getting enough sleep why would people train during cutting cycles? Consistant resistance training keeps the muscles active, releases anabolic hormones, and keeps strength levels up. Dieting without weight lifting will cause a much greater loss of muscle than dieting while lifting.

Tiare
05-12-2002, 12:22 PM
Your mom best bet is to do cardio and resistance training and a healthy diet. Can everyone agree on that?

Jane
05-12-2002, 12:26 PM
Yes, although diet is still number one, and when pressured for time I believe weight training should be a priority over cardio.

martijn
05-12-2002, 12:52 PM
Originally posted by Jane

If the only way to minimize muscle loss was through high protein diets and getting enough sleep why would people train during cutting cycles? Consistant resistance training keeps the muscles active, releases anabolic hormones, and keeps strength levels up.

I did not say ppl stop training during cuting.
I tied to say, when ppl train(low reps + high weights or high reps + low reps) and cute, they will minimize the loss of muscle mass with a high protein diet. When you are at sleep more hormones will be released, than during the day. So sleep is important, as training(like you are saying) for your hormonlevel.
Maybe I think that food is more important that training.
Also when ppl are speking about muscle mass they are speaking about muscle-cells. When the muscles grow bigger, the cells grow bigger, true? So when ppl have muscle loss, the cells shrink. Mass cells they are the same.

Jane
05-12-2002, 12:56 PM
Originally posted by martijn
I tied to say, when ppl train(low reps + high weights or high reps + low reps) and cute, they will minimize the loss of muscle mass with a high protein diet. When you are at sleep more hormones will be released, than during the day. So sleep is important, as training(like you are saying) for your hormonlevel.
Maybe I think that food is more important that training.

Is this not what I've been saying all along? :confused: Diet is number one, with training helping minimize muscle loss.

Mass cells they are the same.
I don't understand what you mean by this.

martijn
05-12-2002, 01:07 PM
Muscle mass and muscle cells are the same.. and we both were saying the same thing, only I think his mom is better of doing some cardio and a good diet, but the mom was to train with weights. So high reps and low weight is the combi. of cardio and weight training. The hormones will still be release, when you train likes this.

Jane
05-12-2002, 01:12 PM
Originally posted by martijn
Muscle mass and muscle cells are the same.. and we both were saying the same thing, only I think his mom is better of doing some cardio and a good diet, but the mom was to train with weights. So high reps and low weight is the combi. of cardio and weight training. The hormones will still be release, when you train likes this.

You were suggesting circuit training then? Circuit training is a waste of time, in my opinion. Trying to hit two birds with one stone will result in both parts lacking. The heart rate will not be raised high enough for a long enough period of time to be considered aerobic training, and the weight/rep combination will be wrong for muscle stimulation purposes. She won't get an aerobic workout OR an anaerobic one. Rep ranges of 15-20, for the most part, are considered useless. Breathing squats and calf raises may be an exception, but those are debatable.

martijn
05-12-2002, 01:24 PM
circuit training, NO!
Take a 3 or 4 day split routine, and do the sets with high reps, but I will never encourage ppl to do circuit training. There are enough women in the gym who have shown circuit training don' t work.

The_Chicken_Daddy
05-12-2002, 01:45 PM
"When you want to loss a few pounds with training instead of cardio you will have to training with sets of heigh reps(like 15 or more per set)."


No.

"deadlifting is not a exercise for ppl who just begin with training."

Deadlifting is a fundamental exercise for people who just began lifting.

"But you are still wrong, because by training you will not get bigger muscle cells"


Ummm....:bash:

"Also when ppl are speking about muscle mass they are speaking about muscle-cells."

Muscle cells collectively form the muscle.

"When the muscles grow bigger, the cells grow bigger, true? So when ppl have muscle loss, the cells shrink. Mass cells they are the same."

Huh?

"Muscle mass and muscle cells are the same.. and we both were saying the same thing, only I think his mom is better of doing some cardio and a good diet, but the mom was to train with weights."

So (relative) heavy weight training coupled with cardio sessions on other days (or at least 8-12 hours between) would be ideal. Heavy weight training in the 3-12 rep range is fine, although she does need to watch her spine if she's had problems in the past or has problems occuring now.


Using sets of 15 reps will build good endurance but not very much in the way of muscle mass. if she built up a bit of muscle, not only would she benefit from the increased strength, increase bone cushoning(from extra muscle mass), potential increased bone density and better feeling of life, she'd also have a higher BMR and would find fat loss that little bit easier.

If she uses a low(ish) rep range and does cardio, say...every other day of weights (with a few days rest during the week) then she will notice better strength and a strengthend heart (always good for general health.) Once she gets her diet sorted she'll see the weight come off. It just takes a little time. And good advice, naturally.

Jane
05-12-2002, 01:50 PM
Originally posted by martijn
circuit training, NO!
Take a 3 or 4 day split routine, and do the sets with high reps, but I will never encourage ppl to do circuit training. There are enough women in the gym who have shown circuit training don' t work.
Why were you suggesting such high reps then??

The_Chicken_Daddy
05-12-2002, 01:56 PM
he seems to think that high reps are a happy medium between heavy low rep lifting and cardio.

martijn
05-12-2002, 02:07 PM
The_Chicken_Daddy has give the answer to your question Jane. And if she wants to get more muscle mass and loss bodyfat, I would say go for a good diet and a 3 or 4 day split routine with sets of low reps, but I did not read that she wants to gain muscle, but just lose some bodyfat.

Jane
05-12-2002, 02:17 PM
Originally posted by martijn
The_Chicken_Daddy has give the answer to your question Jane. And if she wants to get more muscle mass and loss bodyfat, I would say go for a good diet and a 3 or 4 day split routine with sets of low reps, but I did not read that she wants to gain muscle, but just lose some bodyfat.
:confused:

martijn
05-12-2002, 02:18 PM
Is it so hard to understand?

Paul Stagg
05-13-2002, 07:43 AM
It's hard to understand exactly what you are saying, yes.

Delvey - Your mom is on the right track with adding resistance training to her routine. I would highly recommend she use it within the parameters of what her doc says if she is under his/her care for a spinal injury.

Were I giving her advice, I would have her do a full body routine 3 times a week, and a little cardio on 2 or 3 days a week... the intent at first is to improve conditioning and work capacity. Always leave room for adjustment - if 3 days a week is too much add more rest, etc, etc.

DIET is the key to body recomposition.

DelveyBoy
05-13-2002, 12:56 PM
i will put her on a 2 day routine with about half an hour cardio.i will design the routine later and post it

smalls
05-13-2002, 02:38 PM
Delveyboy, good idea. Come up with a routine and people with critique it.

Martijn, What you are saying is for her to cut she needs high reps and if she wants to put on muscle she needs low reps. And what people are trying to say is, you are wrong. She should to train with low reps, either way, in order maintain as much muscle as possible(or since she is a beginner, possibly put on small amounts of muscle).

High reps is not a good substitute for cardio.
Do you do high reps when cutting.