Please help need advice

[Bosshogg300]

i am in the process of trying to find a new split to help me improve my numbers and i have been doing a powerbodybuilder style split for a while but want to change to a powerlifting split because i want to do a comp. But i cant decide what split i should do, i have been leaning towards westside but there are so many variations of it and thats where idk what to do. So heres two of them i have been reading and think are good i am open to suggestions and comments any insight would be grateful thanks.

(heres the first one i got off anabolic minds)
Sample Westside Barbell Template
Originally passed to me by Mike Ruggeria, some changes made since then.



Monday – Dynamic Effort, Upper Body

Flat Bench: 10 sets, 3 reps (sets under 3 seconds w/50% of one rep max, 3 different grips, 30 to 45 seconds between sets)
Lactic Acid Tolerance Training: High Rep for time or reps. (Inc/Dec/Flat press moves, light weight, usually DB)
Tricep Movement: 60 reps, start with 10-12 reps, as many sets as it takes - one minute between sets
Rear Delt Movement: 2 sets, 8-12 Reps - one minute between sets
Shoulder Movement: (Side or Front Raises) 2 sets, 8-12 Reps - one minute between sets
High Upper Back Movement: 3 sets, 10-12 Reps (Facepulls, reverse bench rows, etc.) one minute between sets
Laying Abs or leg raises



Tuesday – Max Effort, Lower Body


Max Effort Movement: 3-5 sets @ over 85%, 3-1 reps (Work to max, perform exercise two weeks in a row. All exercises can/should be enhanced with bands.)
---Deadlift, Good morning, Squat variations
Hamstring Movement: 4 sets, 5-7 reps (machine or band) Single leg at a time.
Low Back Movement: 3 sets, 5-7 reps (Stiff Legs, Pull Throughs, Hyperextensions)
Upper Back Movement: 3 sets, 5-7 reps. (Rows, DB or BB)
Bicep Movement: 3 sets, 10-15 Reps (Hammer curls, one minute between sets)
Standing Ab work



Thursday – Max Effort, Upper Body (72 hours after Dynamic Effort Upper Body)
Max Effort Movement: 3-5 sets @ over 85%, 3-1 reps (Work to max, perform exercise two weeks in a row. All exercises can/should be enhanced with bands.)
---Board Presses, Floor Presses, Decline/Incline, Reverse Band Presses, Close Grip
ADDED 9/24 = Press Assistance Work - Pin lockouts, Low end partial press, Reverse grip bench, etc. 3 sets, 5-7 reps.
Tricep Movement: Pick two exercises. 3 sets, 3-7 reps. (2 minutes between sets)
Shoulder Movement: 3 sets, 5-7 reps (Vertical press move)
High Upper Back Movement: 3 sets, 10-12 reps (Facepulls, reverse bench rows, etc.)
Laying Abs or leg raises



Saturday – Dynamic Effort, Lower Body (72 hours after Max Effort Lower Body)

Box Squats: 8-10 sets, 2 reps. Use 50-60% of 1RM. 45 seconds between sets. Box at parallel.
---Optional Speed Deadlifts – 50%, No more than 5 sets, 2 reps. One minute between sets.
Lactic Acid Training: High Rep for time or reps. (Quad work, light weight) one minute between sets
Hamstring Movement: 4 sets, 5-7 reps (machine or band) Single leg at a time. one minute between sets
Lower Back Movement: Same movement as Tuesday but lighter, more reps. one minute between sets
Shrugs: 3 sets, 10-15 reps. As heavy as possible. one minute between sets
Bicep Movement: 3 sets, 10-15 Reps - one minute between sets
Standing Ab work


General Physical Preparedness / Cardio work - Recommended to do GPP work 3 times a week. Sled dragging, tire flipping, farmers walk, high rep Olympic lifts, etc.

(And heres the second one i got from Joe DeFranco)

A. MAX-EFFORT LIFT - Work up to a max set of 3-5 reps.
Choose one of the following exercises:
•Thick bar or regular barbell bench press
•Barbell floor press
•Rack lockouts
•Board presses
•Incline barbell bench
•Close-grip bench press (index finger on smooth part of bar)
•Decline bench press
•Weighted dips
B. SUPPLEMENTAL LIFT - Perform 3-4 sets of 6-10 reps.
Choose one of the following exercises:
•Flat dumbbell bench press (palms in or palms forward)
•Incline dumbbell bench press
•Decline dumbbell bench press
C. HORIZONTAL ROW - Perform 4 sets of 10-15 reps.
•Choose one of the following exercises:
•Chest supported rows
•Bent-over dumbbell or barbell rows /Seated cable rows (various bars)
D. REAR DELT/UPPER BACK - Perform 2-3 sets of 12-15 reps.
Choose one of the following exercises:
•Seated rear delt machine
•Seated dumbbell "power cleans"
•Bent-over cable flyes (single arm)
•Standing face pulls
•Rope pulls to throat
•Bent-over dumbbell rear delt flyes
•Cable "scarecrows"(shown below)
E. WEIGHTED ABDOMINAL EXERCISE - 3-4 sets of 8-15 reps.
Choose one of the following exercises:
•Barbell Russian twists
•Low-cable pull-ins
•Hanging leg raises
•Barbell or dumbbell side bends
•Weighted Swiss ball crunches
•Low pulley Swiss ball crunches (shown below)



+++++ LOWER BODY - (Wednesday) +++++
A. MAX-EFFORT LIFT - Work up to a max set of 5 reps.
Choose one of the following exercises:
•Trap bar deadlift
•Box squats
•Rack pulls (partial deadlift)
•Front squats
•High bar Olympic squats
•Straight bar deadlifts (various grips)

B. UNILATERAL MOVEMENT - Perform 3-4 sets of 8-15 reps.
Choose one of the following exercises:
•Single leg squats, back leg elevated
•Barbell step-ups with knee lift
•Barbell reverse lunges
•Barbell reverse lunges, front foot elevated
•Barbell reverse lunges, front foot elevated (with knee lift)
•Low-pulley split squats, front foot elevated
•Walking lunges
•"Speed-skater" squats (1 and a half rep single leg squats)
•Barbell step-ups
C. HAMSTRING / POSTERIOR CHAIN MOVEMENT - Perform 3-4 sets of 6-10 reps.
Choose one of the following exercises:
•Leg curls
•Glute-ham raises (various resistance, iso-holds, negatives)
•Romanian deadlifts
•Seated or standing good mornings
•Stability ball hamstring lifts
•Pull-throughs
•Reverse hypers
D. GRIP TRAINING - Perform 3 sets of timed sets.
•Choose one of the following exercises:
•Thick bar or heavy dumbbell holds
•Plate pinch gripping
•Captains of Crush gripper - 3 sets of max reps each hand.
•Wrist roller


++++++ REPETITION UPPER BODY - (Friday) ++++++
A. REPETITION LIFT - Work up to 3 sets of max reps, rest 60 seconds between sets.
Choose one of the following exercises:
•Barbell bench press (max reps on 95lbs., 135lbs., 185lbs. or 225lbs.)
•Regular push-ups, bar push-ups or suspended chain push-ups
•Bodyweight dips
•Dumbbell benches on Swiss ball, flat bench or incline bench

B. SUPPLEMENTAL LIFT (triceps) - Perform 3-4 sets of 5-10 reps.
Choose one of the following exercises:
•Dumbbell triceps extensions (flat, incline or decline bench)
•Dumbbell floor presses
•Rolling triceps extensions
•Rope pushdowns
•Skull crushers (EZ bar or straight bar)

C. VERTICAL PULLING - Perform 4 sets of 8-12 reps.
Choose one of the following exercises:
•Lat pulldowns (various bars)
•Chin-ups or Pull-ups

D. MEDIAL DELT or TRAP EXERCISE - Perform 3 sets of 10-15 reps.
Choose one of the following exercises:
•Dumbbell side press (single arm)
•Dumbbell shoulder press (seated or standing)
•Lateral raises (dumbbell or cable)
•Barbell or dumbbell shrugs
•Bradford presses (shown below)
E. ELBOW FLEXION EXERCISE - Perform 3 sets of 8-10 reps.
Choose one of the following exercises:
•Thick bar curls
•Preacher curls (EZ bar or straight bar)
•Regular barbell curls
•Hammer curls
•Alternate dumbbell curls (standing or seated incline)

F. ABDOMINAL CIRCUIT TRAINING
Just pick a variety of ab exercises and perform them in circuit fashion with no rest between exercises.


NOTE: Athletes who are approaching their season and want to incorporate running/conditioning/GPP work into their program can break up the week as follows:
•MONDAY (A.M.) - MAX-EFFORT Upper Body lift
•MONDAY (P.M.) - Sprint work, conditioning, GPP or skill training
•TUESDAY - OFF or Restoration techniques
•WEDNESDAY - Sprint work, conditioning, GPP or skill training
•THURSDAY - REPETITION Upper Body lift
•FRIDAY - Sprint work, conditioning, GPP or skill training
•SATURDAY - Lower Body lift
•SUNDAY - OFF or Restoration techniques

[kingns]

I did Joe Defrancos for a few months before I competed and it worked really well but isn't really designed for a competitive lifter. I would recommend this program to anyone that wants to get bigger and stronger though.

THe first one your listed is IMO way too exact but is pretty much the same template people have been using for a long time and works. I have pretty much done that for three years now and it certainly worked for me, I just had to take out the stuff I didn't need and add what I did need. If you train raw I think you'll benefit a lot more from moderately heavy free squats than 10x2 with 50% on a box but otherwise the program works, tons of people use it and it will probly work for you. But where is says only do 2 sets of 12 reps with one minute rest, but another day for 3 sets of 5-7 you have to remember that is just a guide line.
Everyone takes the original split, does the first exercise then does what they need to do after. If you have the same needs as Mike Ruggiera then that exact layout would work, but you probly dont have the same weak points.
Also keep in mind if that is Mike's personal way of doing the template, he has a really high work capacity, started off with much more basic stuff, and is probably taking drugs that allow him to train differently than a normal person can. Its like looking at Ronnie Colemans workout and thinking that is the best way to train.

I'd recommend on speed bench day you speed bench, than do what you need for your bench with higher reps. On Max effort day squat or dead, then do whatever you need to for them. Maybe just more working sets with lighter weight. On max effort bench day, max out on whatever but I've found you should probably hit a REAL bench press occassionally rather than just floor press all the time, then after do whatever helps your bench. On DE squat day, practice form, work with lighter weights and lots of volume. Box squats are great but if you suck at free squatting and aren't very strong already you should ditch the box. Afterwords do the same thing with deads, practice form, dont go too heavy, and work on speed. After that hit your weak points.

Jim Wendler does a great job simpliftying all of the overthinking with this whole system. Good luck.

[bojackson]

good luck with what ever you choose

[jmccown]

Splits are for bodybuilders. But here's mine anyways

Monday
Eat
Eat
Eat
Bench
Eat some more

Wednesday
Eat
Eat
Eat
Deadlift
Puke
Eat some more

Friday
Eat
Eat
Eat
Squat
almost puke...
Eat

Repeat....


works for me....

[Bosshogg300]

well thanks for all the input kingns i will give it a shot and see how it goes and bojackson thank you aswell

[mastermonster]

My 1st advice is make a firm decision as to if you want to be a powerlifter or a bodybuilder. I did both for several years and was just pretty good at both. When I decided to go all powerlifting my lifts took off. jmccown actually has it pretty much right. It's like the KISS principle. Keep It Simple Stupid. For the past several years that's pretty much what I've done with a couple of assistance moves thrown in. You only do 3 lifts at a meet. Spend 80-90% of your gym time on them. They're the only lifts you really have to be good at!

[Bosshogg300]

i am deff a powerlifter by all means and not a bodybuilder i just havent implemented the powerlitfing all the way in terms of lifting but now i need to because i am wanting to improve in my lifts and get ready and do all i can do so i am ready for my first meet

[theBarzeen]

We do a 3 or 4 day split depending on how close to a meet we are......

Off season Saturday is squat and deadlift day, wed. is a speed day ( briefs or raw squats) sometimes rack pulls or deficit work.
Sunday is an auxiliary day and I do my strongman training and conditioning, Tuesday we bench.

We rotate each lift on a three week light/med/heavy cycle.....

Closer to a meet we put all of the main lifts on Saturday and keep speed work on Wed with less auxiliary work thrown in during the week.


There are hundreds of different ways to put a training cycle together, the big common trait is that you need to think about training each lift, not each body part.