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View Full Version : (Lean mass) Diet help please!



stasik
11-26-2010, 07:11 PM
Hello

I am looking for some help regarding adding mass.
I am male, 6' 164lb approx 12-13%bf, 24y/o.

I am interested in the best approach to add lean muscle mass, and yes, as a former fat-ass, I am mortally afraid of adding fat.

My problem is that I am also weak despite putting in many years of hard work at the gym. Current diet 100f/225c/275p (~3000) lift days and 90f/175c/275p (~2650) off days. This sees me adding just under 1lb/week and goes something like P+F....P+C <lift> P+C P+C P+C P+C P+C PF PF PF, etc... Getting liquid carbs around workout helps a lot.


Since I decided that despite trolling away at the gym for some time I am as weak as a pup, I decided to do starting strength practical programming, without any assistance (about 1 month in now). Strength is creeping up slowly. I am only doing 5lb jumps on everything except 10lb on dead lifts. Nothing like the crazy promises of 10-15lb jumps. So far squatting 145x5 (hard), dl 195 (ok), press 80 (almost stuck), bench 115 (easy). Having tried eating like mad and doing the milk thing, I know that it doesn't help for very long. Another problem with that approach is that I seem to need to chug water all day and night, which makes sleep difficult, lol.

Thoughts on how to improve?

Thanks

Sean S
11-26-2010, 08:18 PM
If you're making progress, even slow progress, just keep doing what you are doing. If you are gaining ~1lb. a week you are dialed in pretty well. To gain lean mass and really keep the fat gain to an absolute minimum is a slow process, so just be patient and keep plugging away. Gaining weight a little faster and putting on some fat will help with the strength gains, but you have to decide if that's worth it for you.

stasik
11-27-2010, 07:32 AM
If you're making progress, even slow progress, just keep doing what you are doing. If you are gaining ~1lb. a week you are dialed in pretty well. To gain lean mass and really keep the fat gain to an absolute minimum is a slow process, so just be patient and keep plugging away. Gaining weight a little faster and putting on some fat will help with the strength gains, but you have to decide if that's worth it for you.

Thanks. Strength is more important than looks within reason - I still want to get into my pants more or less heh, and I have slow going with losing fat vs muscle. Despite that I am going at pretty slow rate, I see less gains in muscle than fat, lol, so wondering what is "off".

How would you go about modifying it for improved strength?
Any thoughts on protein intake? To be honest I got these similar numbers from a trainer (before he unfortunately passed away).

af92
11-28-2010, 03:56 PM
Thanks. Strength is more important than looks within reason - I still want to get into my pants more or less heh, and I have slow going with losing fat vs muscle. Despite that I am going at pretty slow rate, I see less gains in muscle than fat, lol, so wondering what is "off".

How would you go about modifying it for improved strength?
Any thoughts on protein intake? To be honest I got these similar numbers from a trainer (before he unfortunately passed away).


What time of the day do you lift? I know I can't lift worth crap if I do it in the morning, even after having a meal and waiting awhile. Maybe try lifting later in the day or night even? If you still have fat to lose my man, just get most of the fat down (within reason), cut ALL the crap out of your diet, and just eat great food. This diet thing is way overated and I think people make it out to be some complex thing when really, it isn't.

af92
11-28-2010, 04:00 PM
Also, the funny thing about gaining muscle is that it takes a LONG time and you must be PATIENT. An average LBM gain for most people is around 10 pounds in a year (not an absolute number or anything!), obviously that will decrease when you start reaching your genetic limit for your body. Some people gain muscle quicker, some slower. Just know that it takes YEARS to look your best.

stasik
11-28-2010, 05:08 PM
I lift after work at about 4pm. I think I 'peak' at about 10-11 though =)


Also, the funny thing about gaining muscle is that it takes a LONG time and you must be PATIENT. An average LBM gain for most people is around 10 pounds in a year (not an absolute number or anything!), obviously that will decrease when you start reaching your genetic limit for your body. Some people gain muscle quicker, some slower. Just know that it takes YEARS to look your best.

Thanks. Maybe that (unfortunately) is what I really needed to hear.

Also patience isn't me, lol. I (like everyone else) want everything now now now. Which is why I figure I will stick to the program as much as possible, keep the basic lifts only, adjust nutrition slowly. The thing is I am extremely dedicated to this, and usually for me, time+effort=results, but in this case I think I am missing something.

10lb eh? Mr. Rip promises that much in 2 weeks (haha).

af92
11-28-2010, 06:01 PM
I lift after work at about 4pm. I think I 'peak' at about 10-11 though =)



Thanks. Maybe that (unfortunately) is what I really needed to hear.

Also patience isn't me, lol. I (like everyone else) want everything now now now. Which is why I figure I will stick to the program as much as possible, keep the basic lifts only, adjust nutrition slowly. The thing is I am extremely dedicated to this, and usually for me, time+effort=results, but in this case I think I am missing something.

10lb eh? Mr. Rip promises that much in 2 weeks (haha).


I guess I should edit the 10lb thing. lol. USUALLY in the first year, IF your new to lifting, you can probably expect more. It really depends on lots of different variables, genetics / diet / lifting being the biggest. Sure, you can easily gain 2+ lbs per weeks, but sadly, most of the time it is fat / water retention. Just be realistic about the whole thing and think of it as a LIFELONG goal. There is more bad info than good info out there, and its tough to know what is right.

Just know to get bigger you must lift weights and actually lift HARD. Don't be afraid to push, but don't be a show-off about it. The diet is key and you really don't need alot more calories than your base to add good LBM. Supplements have a place in all this, but the place is more or less later on in development than earlier. I mean really, do you think the old, old school guys that lifted weights had all this fancy stuff we have now? Didn't think so. Just stick to the basics and you'll get there in time.

Lastly, genetics plays the BIGGEST part in how much muscle we can truly have on our bodies.

Just have faith in you and have fun with it. Its awesome to see yourself grow and get stronger!

RichMcGuire
11-29-2010, 12:08 AM
I lift after work at about 4pm. I think I 'peak' at about 10-11 though =)



Thanks. Maybe that (unfortunately) is what I really needed to hear.

Also patience isn't me, lol. I (like everyone else) want everything now now now. Which is why I figure I will stick to the program as much as possible, keep the basic lifts only, adjust nutrition slowly. The thing is I am extremely dedicated to this, and usually for me, time+effort=results, but in this case I think I am missing something.

10lb eh? Mr. Rip promises that much in 2 weeks (haha).

lol yea, 10 lbs of muscle in 2 weeks is not going to be happening. Rip's already been attacked from multiple gurus for his claims on that Zach kid.

JSully
11-29-2010, 03:57 PM
IMO, strength is moreso a product of training rather than nutrition.

Yes you need proper nutrition to grow, but there are many people out there that are very small but HUGE powerhouses.. You've got to train to be strong if you want to be strong. Think about how many high level 198s out there pulling 600+ deads or 400+ benches while maintaining their 198lb weight year in and year out, yet still getting stronger and stronger. Its in their training. There is a difference in training for size vs training for strength. my $.02

What does your training program look like?

stasik
11-29-2010, 04:07 PM
IMO, strength is moreso a product of training rather than nutrition.

Yes you need proper nutrition to grow, but there are many people out there that are very small but HUGE powerhouses.. You've got to train to be strong if you want to be strong. Think about how many high level 198s out there pulling 600+ deads or 400+ benches while maintaining their 198lb weight year in and year out, yet still getting stronger and stronger. Its in their training. There is a difference in training for size vs training for strength. my $.02

What does your training program look like?

Thanks. I guess I was just wondering whether people get better strength improvements given particular diet breakdown. I know some people have to train / eat in a particular way such that their weight remains more or less the same, but seeing as to how I am not looking to compete in anything like that, that isn't a problem =) Also those kinds of guys guys look pretty muscular too, hehe.

Program is:

Mon
Squat 3x5
Bench 3x5 alt w/ Press 3x5
Chinup 3 sets

Wed
Squat 3x5
Bench 3x5 alt w/ Press 3x5
Deadlift 1x5

Fri
Squat 3x5
Bench 3x5 alt w/ Press 3x5
Pullup 3 sets

af92
11-29-2010, 04:32 PM
Thanks. I guess I was just wondering whether people get better strength improvements given particular diet breakdown. I know some people have to train / eat in a particular way such that their weight remains more or less the same, but seeing as to how I am not looking to compete in anything like that, that isn't a problem =) Also those kinds of guys guys look pretty muscular too, hehe.

Program is:

Mon
Squat 3x5
Bench 3x5 alt w/ Press 3x5
Chinup 3 sets

Wed
Squat 3x5
Bench 3x5 alt w/ Press 3x5
Deadlift 1x5

Fri
Squat 3x5
Bench 3x5 alt w/ Press 3x5
Pullup 3 sets


You should give some of these programs a go. They are all solid.

http://www.wannabebig.com/cat/training/training-programs/

Just take your time to learn the lifts and proper execution. Make sure to incorporate stretching (Magnificent Mobility being an awesome program to do for stretching) as well. Rest plenty and eat to help your body grow. Oh, and no he-man ***** either ok?

http://www.magnificentmobility.com/

Good luck and have fun being more fit than most people in the US.

stasik
11-30-2010, 09:08 AM
You should give some of these programs a go. They are all solid.

http://www.wannabebig.com/cat/training/training-programs/

Just take your time to learn the lifts and proper execution. Make sure to incorporate stretching (Magnificent Mobility being an awesome program to do for stretching) as well. Rest plenty and eat to help your body grow. Oh, and no he-man ***** either ok?

http://www.magnificentmobility.com/

Good luck and have fun being more fit than most people in the US.

Thanks, I have! the solid articles on this site are what make me like it so much.

The problem is with nutrition it seems there are wild fluctuations in recommendations from limiting your carbs to 30% to getting 5-6g/kg (on the nutrition page). I was just looking to get some input into what people found to work (or work better =))


lol yea, 10 lbs of muscle in 2 weeks is not going to be happening. Rip's already been attacked from multiple gurus for his claims on that Zach kid.

Rip is great at developing a positive mental attitude and dispelling limiting beliefs.

If one person like you can do it, then doing exactly that can produce the same result. In his case the nutrition advice seems to do just that =) I think if people get strong, great, but there is no reason to stuff yourself and walk around bloated from all the milk you just drank (just hope few people find out they are lactose intolerant)

r2473
11-30-2010, 04:25 PM
..........

stasik
11-30-2010, 04:51 PM
You give great advice.

I think 10 lbs. in your first year is about right. Bigger guys (tall, large bones) might be able to gain as much as 15-18. The OP might gain more as well. He is 6 foot and is estimating his LBM at 140 - 145 lbs, so he has some filling out / maturing to do.

If you happen to gain that 15 lbs. or so in your first year, each year after that you can expect that to be cut in half (so 8 lbs. second year, 4 lbs. third year, etc). Almost nobody will progress this fast though.

I think the best you can hope for muscle-to-fat-ratio gain is 1:1. Most people will gain even more fat for each pound of muscle. Few if any will do better than 1:1 (again, unless you are physically immature, but that will be a lot of just "filling out" anyway).

Not my first year. I have a crappy lifting career, lol.

Are you serious about the 1:1 muscle/fat ratio? That sux

Forgive me, but I really, sincerely hope you are wrong on those points =) My first couple of years were haphazard dieting down type with not much rhyme or reason. If you saw me at the end of that, you;d think I escaped from a prisoner camp, lol. At my lowest I was about 7-8% at 150lb. I went from size 34-36 to somethng like 28 ( I never had jeans that fit at size 30, so I'm not too certain).

Cardio, metcon type weightlifting for at least an hour 3x a week. Oh and a low fat diet. If I had any newbie gains I lost them.
At the time, I didn't have the opportunity to read up on proper diet/strength training etc, so I did it by the seat of my pants.

I was trying to see my abs.

And despite what other people may say, no mater how much fat you lose, if you don't have abs, you will never see them.

Sigh, I just hope that noone else wastes as much time as I did.