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jtteg_x
12-02-2010, 04:12 AM
For pulls I use left hand over and right hand under. I notice the bar slips away on the over hand (left) when I'm pulling at 90%+ effort. I want to see what's a good approach to this other than farmers walk with DB's and pulling using double over-hand as I have consider those two lifts. I only use straps on chin-ups/lat pull downs and that is just sometimes. I do use chalk. I do DB hammer curls for biceps on a weekly basis.

JSully
12-02-2010, 06:50 AM
dont ever use straps until you're nailing ME deads without issues every time, and use a thumbless grip whenever possible, I also go thumbless on pulldowns, low cable rows, and even double overhand deads up to the mid 300s..

I used to use straps for lat stuff because my grip would hold me back from the exercise I was focusing on, but at the same time I was dropping my 500lb pulls due to grip issues so I threw out the straps. Now I've got no issues at all pulling mid 6s (same way as you, left over/right under). Now that my grip is built up to where I need it, I'll use straps on cleans, high pulls, snatches, RDLs, bent over rows and rack pulls, give or take a couple more, just depends on how much effort I want to put into holding something vs how much effort I want to put into what's actually being worked. If I come across a ME pull I can't hold, I'll stop using the straps again and focus, but for the most part I haven't had any issues in well over a year..

one thing really helped me was static holds after my last set of deads. I'll hold the bar at the top for as long as possible on my last set. There's a video of KK hitting a 7+ deficit deadlift and then holding it for 18-20 seconds at the top, I try to mimic that. Right before I feel my grip giving out, I'll set it down. Plate pinches also help but I didn't see a huge carryover from them, or farmers walks, but that's just me. I also pull double overhand until my grip fails (upper 400s), then I'll switch to a mixed grip and then add chalk when I get to the mid 5s.

Tom Mutaffis
12-02-2010, 08:00 AM
For pulls I use left hand over and right hand under. I notice the bar slips away on the over hand (left) when I'm pulling at 90%+ effort. I want to see what's a good approach to this other than farmers walk with DB's and pulling using double over-hand as I have consider those two lifts. I only use straps on chin-ups/lat pull downs and that is just sometimes. I do use chalk. I do DB hammer curls for biceps on a weekly basis.

Jake provided some good advice.

Here are exercises that I would include:

- Deadlift holds (mixed grip or double-overhand)
- Timed hang (pull-up bar or revolving bar)
- Dumbbell Hold or Farmers Walk

How you chalk your hands and how you grip the bar can also make a difference; and an alternative would be to learn to hook grip.

Lones Green
12-02-2010, 08:14 AM
Best advice is throwing your straps out. I would try things like rack pulls against quad mini's, hex dumbbell holds, shrugs without straps, and there are some pretty cool grip tools out there if you're willing to pay a little bit. I've also heard of some people putting rice in a 5 gallon bucket and doing rice digs with their hands.

AdamBAG
12-02-2010, 08:45 AM
Don't use straps if you have grip issues. I think that doing pullups and chins w/o straps can really help build the deadlift grip w/o overly taxing your body.

Something else that is forgotten is to do deadlifts for reps. That way you build your grip performing the exercise where it fails you. Also try doing some sets where you swap your over/under hands to work your deadlift grip in a different way.

JSully
12-02-2010, 08:53 AM
Jake provided some good advice.
How you chalk your hands and how you grip the bar can also make a difference; and an alternative would be to learn to hook grip.

this is a really good point too.. how do you hold the bar in your hands?

I chalk the **** out of my hands, there is almost no visible skin that isn't white, lol...

When I setup my right hand (which I actually setup second but it's easier to explain first) I bend my wrist as far forward as it will possibly go and place the bar as close to the base of my thumb as possible so that when I pull up, my wrists drop down and the bar falls into that "sweet spot" is surrounded by the gushy part of your hands that will rip the F off if you don't keep it callus free, haha.. you like my technical terms? For the left hand I do the exact same, except I approach it from an overhand position. When you start pulling, your wrists loosen up and the bar feels very secure. I don't even have to focus on squeezing the bar once it falls in that sweet spit, I'm just in for the ride at that point.. hope that makes sense, I'm sure i can get a photo if you really need it. I suppose this may be an elementary point, but you never know where people are with their training.

mchicia1
12-02-2010, 09:02 AM
Something else that is forgotten is to do deadlifts for reps. That way you build your grip performing the exercise where it fails you.

This! Ive had a huge increase in grip strength since I started training deadlifts in a higher rep range (minimum 5).

Can't speak from personal experience, but I also heard kroc rows are good for grip.

Chris Rodgers
12-02-2010, 05:35 PM
Is this during sumo pulls or all pulls? I was losing the bar on my heavy sumo pulls from having my overhand open up on me. I don't have this issue with conventional pulls. I think it is from your overhand rubbing up against your quad and/or suit/singlet/shorts.

jtteg_x
12-05-2010, 01:11 AM
I rarely pull conventional but if I do, its with bands for speed work. I haven't did any ME pulls conventional stance in years so I really don't know. My partner tells me the bar starts to slip the movement it lifts 3-4" off the ground and thats before my hands rub my thigh. Chalk...I put some on the bar, rub my hands on the block and clap the excessive off.
I'll ditch the straps and hold my last rep for couple seconds here on. As far as higher reps, will doing a "down set" of 8-12 of say 70% 1RM be good idea (using double overhand or opposite grips)? And when I think about it, I train at 24 hour fitness...their barbells are whack.

dammstrate
12-05-2010, 07:57 AM
DL grip strength is a pretty easy concept. We have 1person who DLs over 8, 1 over 750, 2 over 7, and
3 people over 650, all but the 8 and 750 raw. No one EVER drops a bar.

1 - NEVER use straps
2 - Pull in the rack (free, bands, chains, doesn't matter) to overload every other week with a 55lb
squat bar (fatter).
3 - in addition to your hands, chalk liberally in between your fingers where they touch on the sides.
At the margin of grip strength, the chalk will prevent your fingers from "shearing" apart, which
is the first thing to happen if you lose it.

That's it. No pussy wrist curls, no circus trick captains of crush or plate grip tricks, etc.

DL requires static holding strength. You increase that by statically holding something FATTER than
normal. 55lb squat bar is your friend.

Lones Green
12-05-2010, 09:11 AM
Is this during sumo pulls or all pulls? I was losing the bar on my heavy sumo pulls from having my overhand open up on me. I don't have this issue with conventional pulls. I think it is from your overhand rubbing up against your quad and/or suit/singlet/shorts.

This is worth mentioning I think. I had the same problem. I think it was Rich that told me simply to just move my hands out a little bit. No problems now

Chris Rodgers
12-05-2010, 02:28 PM
And when I think about it, I train at 24 hour fitness...their barbells are whack.

This is huge too. If the bar really sucks, it can make a huge difference. In a competition you will either have a good power bar or a deadlift bar and I would think there would be no issues. I still think you should listen to the suggestions above though.

NickAus
12-05-2010, 04:39 PM
Hex holds.

Pulls against band tension.

Pulling for reps.

jtteg_x
12-05-2010, 07:42 PM
thanks for the info as always guys. I did my meet today and sure enough, I was able to hold 501lb comfortably. Unfortunately the lift didn't count cause I dropped the bar. :bang:

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video doesnt seem to work at the moment: direct link http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFFKffltu7U

NickAus
12-05-2010, 08:56 PM
Pulling for reps is IMO going to help you most!

Nice pull!!

Cmanuel
12-06-2010, 07:25 AM
I had the same issue yesterday too! I missed an easy looking 557 pull because of my grip.
Lnrm__KS7Fc

I'm kind of wanting to switch to hook grip. I have a crossfit buddy who swears by it and I've heard people who use it never have an issue dropping weights once mastering the grip..

My question is...For people who use hook grip on a regular basis, how long did it take for your thumbs to get used to the grip?

ThomasG
12-06-2010, 07:30 AM
Reverse band deadlifts.