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f=ma
12-12-2010, 05:12 AM
I have been using ALN BCAA's for about 2 weeks

I have the grape flavor. I use BCAAs when in a calorie restriction before fasted cardio. the idea behind that is to prevent muscle loss due to the restriction. there is probably more science behind how that works but that doesnt matter to me - i know it works. first, i have 3 other products I was using before I received ALN BCAAs

1. ON powder
2. Primaforce powder
3. ON caps

1. ON Powder
The ON powder comes in a little jug shaped like most BA supplements. it has very poor mixability. even after prolonged mixing, you will have a significant amount of matter on the top of your drink. even when mixed with some whey, it will not dissolve well at all. you will probably need to refill your cup and mix it around 1-2 more times to get it all down. oh, and it tastes like dirt.

2. Primaforce Powder
This is the same as the ON powder above in nearly all respects except that it tastes like filth rather than dirt.

3. ON Caps
Since these are caps, they have added convenience. I still utilize these for cardio done after lifting since i dont carry a shaker with me to the gym. taste and mixability do not apply. the functionality of these merely serves convenience

4. ALN BCAA grape
The packaging is more or less the same. The grape flavor is apparent as soon as you open it. i had conservative expectations using it for the first time since i have history of bcaa use. I couldnt help but be initially biased against a bcaa powder. however, the difference could not be more clear. compared to #1,2 above, ALN mixes dramatically better. the taste is pretty powerful -- which is a good thing. the worst part of the other BCAA powders I have used is how the awful the taste can be. the grape flavor exceeds my expectations (high praise) relative to any other BCAA powder I have used. i will typically take 10-12g in 10oz of water and mix for 10-20 seconds. there is very little matter left on the top of the mixture and it goes down without any kind of face afterwards.

summarized, ALN BCAA grape flavor far exceeds my expectations and easily blows the primaforce & ON powders away. i'm naturally biased in favor of what i prefer, but hopefully this has been objective enough.

ty daniel and chris. keep up the great work.

ELmx479
12-12-2010, 09:28 AM
Good review. I have never used a BCAA supplement in the past. Is it something worth taking or just hype?

Tom Mutaffis
12-12-2010, 10:36 AM
Good review. I have never used a BCAA supplement in the past. Is it something worth taking or just hype?

BCAA's do have quite a bit of scientific backing in terms of effectiveness; but I would first make sure that you have a quality Creatine, Beta Alanine, and Protein Powder prior to adding them to your 'stack'.

I plan to post a review for BCAA+ some time next week as well, have been testing it for about a little over one week now.

Cmanuel
12-12-2010, 10:46 AM
BCAA's do have quite a bit of scientific backing in terms of effectiveness; but I would first make sure that you have a quality Creatine, Beta Alanine, and Protein Powder prior to adding them to your 'stack'.

I plan to post a review for BCAA+ some time next week as well, have been testing it for about a little over one week now.

How do you take your BCAA+? I guess a more specific question is... Whats your schedule for creatine, BA, and BCAA+ like?

I'm thinking about getting a tub of the BCAA+ because I've heard only good things about it...not sure how to implement it into my supplement schedule.

ELmx479
12-12-2010, 11:34 AM
BCAA's do have quite a bit of scientific backing in terms of effectiveness; but I would first make sure that you have a quality Creatine, Beta Alanine, and Protein Powder prior to adding them to your 'stack'.

I plan to post a review for BCAA+ some time next week as well, have been testing it for about a little over one week now.

Creatine seems to be less effective every time I take it. Same with Results. I am currently taking a break from creatine and was just looking into something else to try.

vdizenzo
12-12-2010, 12:24 PM
I just tried the BCAA's yesterday. I mixed a scoop with my water bottle. That's more water than called for, but I like drinks a little weak. The taste was good and even better was no after taste. I was alsom impressed with how well it mixed. Some BCAA's I have tried almost never seem to mix.

chevelle2291
12-12-2010, 05:35 PM
I pretty much agree with F=MA's post. Mixability is great, although there can be a little gritty if it's consumed immediately after shaking. I leave it in my fridge overnight for next day's workout and it's great after that. I'm not a huge fan of the grape flavor, but it seems to taste better during training then it does when I first sampled it.

My only issue is the price and the fact that I'm not sold on BCAAs being more effective than whey. Other than that, though, it is a pretty good product.

chris mason
12-12-2010, 05:49 PM
Thanks for your thoughts F=MA and everyone else here.

Tom Mutaffis
12-13-2010, 08:17 AM
How do you take your BCAA+? I guess a more specific question is... Whats your schedule for creatine, BA, and BCAA+ like?

I'm thinking about getting a tub of the BCAA+ because I've heard only good things about it...not sure how to implement it into my supplement schedule.

Creatine and Beta Alanine I usually take 3-5g/day each, everyday.

For the BCAA's I typically sip on them throughout the day. This has two purposes; it can help to prevent any muscle breakdown if my general nutrition is inadequate and also helps me to meet my daily water intake objectives. Another good time to use BCAA's would be intra-workout - this is the most common application for BCAA supplements.


Creatine seems to be less effective every time I take it. Same with Results. I am currently taking a break from creatine and was just looking into something else to try.

Have you switched creatine products or do you just find that it does not provide the same results that it did in the past?

What do you currently use for protein shakes and what is your protocol with them? Also, do you use any pre-workout supplement(s) right now?

Tom Mutaffis
12-13-2010, 08:28 AM
I pretty much agree with F=MA's post. Mixability is great, although there can be a little gritty if it's consumed immediately after shaking. I leave it in my fridge overnight for next day's workout and it's great after that. I'm not a huge fan of the grape flavor, but it seems to taste better during training then it does when I first sampled it.

My only issue is the price and the fact that I'm not sold on BCAAs being more effective than whey. Other than that, though, it is a pretty good product.

I am not a huge Grape guy either but do like the taste of BCAA+. One thing that you can try is mixing it with a berry or fruit punch flavored product - I tried BCAA+ mixed with Results for pre/intra-workout and thought that it tasted quite good.

30 servings for $20 is on par with most high quality protein supplements and is also quite reasonable when compared to other flavored BCAA products.

chevelle2291
12-13-2010, 10:01 AM
30 servings for $20 is on par with most high quality protein supplements and is also quite reasonable when compared to other flavored BCAA products.

I realized this after I typed it and had a "you dumb*****" moment. :p

I'm glad you chimed in here Tom. One thing I wanted to ask you is if there's any real benefit to using BCAAs over a normal protein supplement. I'm debating ordering some more BCAA+ for fasted cardio use, but I'm not sure if it's worth the money over just using whey. Thoughts?

hey! what the he!!??? using $$ in place of SS in swear words was my signature move!

anonymous1
12-13-2010, 01:36 PM
I don't understand why At Large launched this product. I thought it was fairly common knowledge that BCAA's are useless except under very specific dietary circumstances which would not be anyone on this forum and certainly not used in addition to products like Nitrean and Opticen which have you covered. I recall Chris Mason being of this opinion.

And the added glutamine - has anyone ever benefited from 2g of glutamine? I thought glutamine was universally accepted as useless as well.

I do see it being economically beneficial to At Large, but doesn't go along with the "we make products that really work" mission of the company. Especially with a green drink, "recovery supplement", and possible bad ass but expensive test booster in development stages.

I admit the last time I really researched this to its limit was probably 2004 or so. Has the information changed since then?

Tom Mutaffis
12-13-2010, 03:13 PM
Here is a study that was performed on Xtend (similar formula to BCAA+):

http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j198/tmutaffis/StoppaniBCAAISSN2009ed2.jpg

Comparison:
Xtend = 3.5g L-Leucine, 2.5g L-Glutamine, 1.8g L-Valine & L-Isoleucine (Suggested Retail $34.95 for 30 servings)
BCAA+ = 3g L-Leucine, 2g L-Glutamine, 1.5g L-Valine & L-Isoleucine (Suggested Retail $22.95 for 30 servings)

The study indicates that free-form BCAA's (14g) out perform BCAA's from whey protein sources (28g whey protein). The down side would be cost, as two servings of a BCAA supplement would be more expensive than the whey protein.

vdizenzo
12-13-2010, 07:22 PM
I just finished another serving while training tonight. I mixed it in my Kleen Kanteen with 20oz of water and a bunch of ice cubes. I sipped on it throughout my workout and am enjoying the taste more each time. This is going to be a staple of my training.

anonymous1
12-14-2010, 04:27 PM
I can't read that study it's too blurry. I am going to research it later but I have an appointment tonight at 7pm. Is this the study you based the product launch on or is there more research? It seems weird that consuming isolated amino's you already get plenty of would have an effect that is significant. I am always interested in new products, though. Thanks for the direct response.

Tom Mutaffis
12-14-2010, 05:01 PM
I can't read that study it's too blurry. I am going to research it later but I have an appointment tonight at 7pm. Is this the study you based the product launch on or is there more research? It seems weird that consuming isolated amino's you already get plenty of would have an effect that is significant. I am always interested in new products, though. Thanks for the direct response.

He is a more legible abstract and a link to the complete study: http://www.jissn.com/content/6/S1/P1

The results of the study piqued my interest as I had not previously paid very much attention to intra-workout nutrition (have used products but not consistently and was not sure how effective they were).

anonymous1
12-14-2010, 06:32 PM
That is an interesting study. I'm not sure they are talking about intra-workout nutrition. "While performing an eight-week resistance-training program." is general terminology. It does make more sense to me if it was consumed during the workout as providing the most essential aminos at that time as opposed to the body having to deal with processing the rest of it seems like it could make a significant difference. Is that truly the only study we can go by right now? They have been selling this stuff forever.

I've yet to google/pubmed it because I still have a large research project I can't figure out (see: diet and nutrition forum distilled water).

Cmanuel
12-14-2010, 07:09 PM
That research poster you posted Tom seems legit,

but one thing that concerns me...

The authors dont discuss how extraneous factors were controlled. Were diets controlled? Cardio workouts controlled? Use of anabolics and/or other supplements controlled? We want to assume these thing were controlled, but the fact is, there is no mention of it. These are all variables that might have confounding the results the researchers experienced.

Besides, the funding source is a freaking supplement company that manufactures BCAAs. I'm sure the study is truly unbiased:study:

anonymous1
12-14-2010, 07:52 PM
It does say the subjects followed a standardized diet. Definitely not a legit source, but seems well done at face value.

Tom Mutaffis
12-14-2010, 08:21 PM
That research poster you posted Tom seems legit,

but one thing that concerns me...

The authors dont discuss how extraneous factors were controlled. Were diets controlled? Cardio workouts controlled? Use of anabolics and/or other supplements controlled? We want to assume these thing were controlled, but the fact is, there is no mention of it. These are all variables that might have confounding the results the researchers experienced.

Besides, the funding source is a freaking supplement company that manufactures BCAAs. I'm sure the study is truly unbiased:study:


It does say the subjects followed a standardized diet. Definitely not a legit source, but seems well done at face value.

There is quite a bit more information on the study available on BB.com (where Scivation originally posted it). My understanding is that the test subjects did follow a standardized diet and training program, and they also were instructed to refrain from using any supplements other than protein shakes for eight weeks prior to beginning the study and also throughout the study. Obviously some individuals may have deviated from the instructions but it appears that they did take steps to ensure accuracy.

I would like to find additional studies on BCAA's but have not had much time to perform research. For a while T-Nation was pushing Leucine so there may be some information available there as they usually include citations with their articles/advertisements.

Assuming that BCAA's are the primary recovery/muscle building factor in protein powder it would make sense that 14g of BCAA's would out-perform 28g of whey protein (likely around 5g total BCAA content). In fact there are some 'designer' post workout supplements that actually dose their BCAA's quite lower and still have generally good reviews - Dark Matter, Massport, etc.

When I have some down time tomorrow I will look around for more studies/information. Hopefully from there we can come up with a general consensus on BCAA's. My prediction is that they will likely prove to be slightly more effective than protein powder but also cost more; and since they can be stacked with protein the BCAA's could provide for the most effective strength/size supplement stack when used as an intra-workout in conjunction with post-workout protein.

**CManuel - Scivation did fund the study but they do sell Whey Protein as well as BCAA's; although I can see your perspective since their sales of Xtend most likely exceed the sales from their whey protein by a substantial amount.

chris mason
12-15-2010, 07:07 PM
Geez, go to PubMed.com and type BCAA in the search and you will find a ton of studies...

ELmx479
12-15-2010, 08:01 PM
Have you switched creatine products or do you just find that it does not provide the same results that it did in the past?

What do you currently use for protein shakes and what is your protocol with them? Also, do you use any pre-workout supplement(s) right now?


Same product, I've used Creatine500 and Results a few times in the past 2 years. Both worked great in the beginning but not so good lately. I was thinking my body is just getting immuned to the dosage?

I use Nitrean, every night before bed with some natural peanut butter. Depending on when I lift my pre-workout varies. Most of the time it's Nitrean, banana, and greek yogurt.

anonymous1
12-15-2010, 08:08 PM
I was going to, just hadn't gotten to it yet. I was hoping you guys had them all lined up and I could save time and effort. Almost all of them are irrelevant, but I'm finding nothing at all negative...just not really applicable to someone with a high protein intake and sound weight training nutrition.

This is the only good one I've spotted so far. Only problem is the subjectivity of the perceived muscle soreness.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20087302

J Sports Med Phys Fitness. 2009 Dec;49(4):424-31.
Branched-chain amino acid supplementation attenuates muscle soreness, muscle damage and inflammation during an intensive training program.

Matsumoto K, Koba T, Hamada K, Sakurai M, Higuchi T, Miyata H.

Saga Nutraceuticals Research Institute, Otsuka Pharmaceutical Co., Ltd., Saga, Japan.
Abstract

AIM: The aim of this paper was to assess the effects of branched-chain amino acid (BCAA) supplementation on muscle soreness, muscle damage and inflammation during an intensive training program.

METHODS: Twelve long-distance runners (20 + or - 1 year-old) participated in a double-blinded crossover designed study conducted during two intensive training periods (three-day). The subjects were provided either a drink containing BCAA (0.8% BCAA in a 3.5% carbohydrate solution; 2,500 mL/day) or an isocaloric placebo drink during each training period. All subjects completed the same training program (total running distance: males: 86 km, females: 64 km), and ate the same meals during the training period. Whole body muscle soreness and fatigue sensation were measured in the morning before and during the training period by Visual Analogue Scale method. Plasma creatine kinase (CK), lactate dehydrogenase (LDH), and granulocyte elastase (GEL) levels were measured as indicators of muscle damage and inflammation before and after the training period.

RESULTS: Muscle soreness and fatigue sensation during the training period in the BCAA trial were lower than those in the placebo trial (-32% and -24%, respectively; P<0.05). The plasma CK, LDH, and GEL levels after the training program in the BCAA trial were lower than those in the placebo trial (-21%, -6%, and -15%, respectively; P<0.05).

CONCLUSIONS: These results demonstrate that BCAA supplementation during an intensive training program effectively reduces the muscle soreness and fatigue sensation, and that the perceived changes could be attributed to the attenuation of muscle damage and inflammation.

PMID: 20087302 [PubMed - in process]

anonymous1
12-15-2010, 08:27 PM
This one seems well done, albiet on mice. This backs up my knowledge of ineffectiveness compared to simply consuming a high protein diet. ALL of the of the pro-BCAA studies I've found so far compare a carbohydrate/saline solution VS BCAA's while on a normal diet with no mention of protein intake. The study above at least had a isocaloric placebo.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19395294

Growth Horm IGF Res. 2009 Dec;19(6):478-85. Epub 2009 Apr 22.
Isocaloric high-protein diet as well as branched-chain amino acids supplemented diet partially alleviates adverse consequences of maternal undernutrition on fetal growth.

Mogami H, Yura S, Itoh H, Kawamura M, Fujii T, Suzuki A, Aoe S, Ogawa Y, Sagawa N, Konishi I, Fujii S.

Department of Gynecology and Obstetrics, Kyoto University, Graduate School of Medicine, 54, Shogoin Kawahara-cho, Sakyo-ku, Kyoto 606-8507, Japan.
Abstract

Maternal undernutrition causes fetal growth restriction. Protein is a vital dietary nutrient for fetal growth, and branched-chain amino acids (BCAA) are noted to have anabolic actions. In this study, we investigated the effects of maternal high-protein diet or BCAA-supplemented diet upon fetal growth under the condition of maternal calorie restriction. Pregnant mice were calorie-restricted (undernutrition: UN), using either a standard diet (S-UN group), high-protein diet (HP-UN group), or BCAA-supplemented diet (BCAA-UN group) to 70% of the control; dams fed ad libitum with a standard diet (S-NN group) from 10.5days post coitum (dpc) to 18.5dpc. The fetal weights of UN groups were significantly decreased compared to that of S-NN. However, the fetal weights of HP-UN and BCAA-UN were significantly higher by 5% and 4%, respectively, than those of S-UN, concomitant with augmentation of the gene and protein expressions of IGF-I and IGF-II in fetal liver. A high-protein diet as well as BCAA-supplemented diet partially improved fetal growth restriction caused by maternal calorie-restriction, suggesting a pivotal role of them in the amelioration of fetal growth restriction.

PMID: 19395294 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

anonymous1
12-15-2010, 08:47 PM
Here's a good study. Doesn't prove anything but gives you an idea of how quickly the BCAA's are absorbed and when the peak concentration will be.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19015870

Eur J Appl Physiol. 2009 Jan;105(2):215-23. Epub 2008 Oct 21.
Effect of strength training session on plasma amino acid concentration following oral ingestion of leucine, BCAAs or glutamine in men.

Mero A, Leikas A, Knuutinen J, Hulmi JJ, Kovanen V.

Department of Biology of Physical Activity, University of Jyväskylä, PO Box 35, 40014 Jyväskylä, Finland. antti.mero@sport.jyu.fi
Abstract

We examined the acute effects of a 1-h strength training session (STS) on plasma amino acid concentration following orally ingestion of leucine, branched-chain amino acids (BCAAs) or glutamine in nine physically active men who participated in double-blinded and randomised experiments. The subjects took placebo, leucine, BCAAs, or glutamine capsules (50 mg/kg) in either rest (REST) or STS condition. Blood samples were taken before and at 30, 60, 90, and 120 min after the beginning of the treatment and they were assayed for plasma amino acids with HPLC. Following both leucine and BCAA ingestion the peak concentration of leucine was similar at rest (524 +/- 46 and 530 +/- 29 nmol/ml, respectively) and similar after STS (398 +/- 43 and 387 +/- 46 nmol/ml, respectively) but the rest and STS concentrations differed from each other (P < 0.01-0.001). The modelled polynomial data for the leucine treatment showed that the peak concentration of leucine occurred at 67 min at rest and at 90 min in STS (difference between REST and STS: P = 0.012). For the BCAA treatment the polynomial data showed that the peak concentration of leucine occurred at 72 min at rest and at 78 min in STS (P = 0.067). The peak concentration of glutamine was similar in both rest and STS condition and occurred at 60 min at rest and at 57 min in STS. In conclusion, 1-h of STS slows the increase in the peak concentration of plasma leucine similarly after oral ingestion of leucine or BCAAs but after oral ingestion of glutamine it has no slowing effect on glutamine concentration.

PMID: 19015870 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

chris mason
12-16-2010, 09:21 AM
Anonymous,

I am not sure what exactly you are searching? Here are a few:


J Strength Cond Res. 2010 Apr;24(4):1125-30.
Amino acid supplements and recovery from high-intensity resistance training.
Sharp CP, Pearson DR.

Department of Health and Human Performance, College of Charleston, Charleston, South Carolina, USA.
Abstract
The purpose of this study was to investigate whether short-term amino acid supplementation could maintain a short-term net anabolic hormonal profile and decrease muscle cell damage during a period of high-intensity resistance training (overreaching), thereby enhancing recovery and decreasing the risk of injury and illness. Eight previously resistance trained males were randomly assigned to either a high branched chain amino acids (BCAA) or placebo group. Subjects consumed the supplement for 3 weeks before commencing a fourth week of supplementation with concomitant high-intensity total-body resistance training (overreaching) (3 x 6-8 repetitions maximum, 8 exercises). Blood was drawn prior to and after supplementation, then again after 2 and 4 days of training. Serum was analyzed for testosterone, cortisol, and creatine kinase. Serum testosterone levels were significantly higher (p < 0.001), and cortisol and creatine kinase levels were significantly lower (p < 0.001, and p = 0.004, respectively) in the BCAA group during and following resistance training. These findings suggest that short-term amino acid supplementation, which is high in BCAA, may produce a net anabolic hormonal profile while attenuating training-induced increases in muscle tissue damage. Athletes' nutrient intake, which periodically increases amino acid intake to reflect the increased need for recovery during periods of overreaching, may increase subsequent competitive performance while decreasing the risk of injury or illness.

PMID: 20300014 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Publication Types, MeSH Terms, Substances
LinkOut - more resources


Branched-chain amino acids and arginine supplementation attenuates skeletal muscle proteolysis induced by moderate exercise in young individuals.
Matsumoto K, Mizuno M, Mizuno T, Dilling-Hansen B, Lahoz A, Bertelsen V, Münster H, Jordening H, Hamada K, Doi T.

Saga Nutraceuticals Research Institute, Otsuka Pharmaceutical Co. Ltd., Yoshinogari, Kanzaki, Saga 842-0195, Japan. kei_matsumoto@research.otsuka.co.jp
Erratum in:

Int J Sports Med. 2007 Jul;28(7):630.
Abstract
This study aimed at evaluating the effect of a single oral intake of branched-chain amino acids (BCAA) with Arg on skeletal muscle protein metabolism during moderate exercise in young individuals. Eight healthy volunteers (4 males and 4 females, means +/- SEM, 26 +/- 1 yrs, 177.8 +/- 3.7 cm, 72.6 +/- 3.9 kg) were studied in a randomized double-blind placebo-controlled cross-over trial. The subjects performed 3 bouts of 20-min cycling exercise (5-min break between each bout) at 126 +/- 13 W corresponding to 50 % of the maximal work intensity. A single oral supplement of either a BCAA drink containing 2 g of BCAA and 0.5 g of Arg or an isocaloric placebo drink was given at 10 min of the 1st exercise bout. Both arterial and venous blood samples were simultaneously taken from the radial artery and the femoral vein, respectively. Blood flow in the femoral artery was determined using the ultrasound Doppler technique. The blood sampling and blood flow measurements were performed at rest, every 10 min during each exercise bout. Net balance of BCAA and Phe across the leg muscles were measured by the arteriovenous difference method. The BCAA ingestion resulted in increases in both the plasma BCAA concentration and BCAA uptake into the working leg. The Phe release from the leg during exercise significantly increased as compared to the basal level in the placebo trial (0.97 +/- 0.28 vs. 0.23 +/- 0.22 micromol/min, p < 0.05). In the BCAA trial, the cumulative Phe release from the leg during the 3rd exercise bout was significantly lower than that in the placebo trial (5.0 +/- 7.4 vs. 35.9 +/- 13.2 micromol/25 min, p < 0.05). These results suggest that endurance exercise at moderate intensity enhances proteolysis in working muscles, and a single oral intake of 2 g of BCAA with Arg at onset of exercise effectively suppresses exercise-induced skeletal muscle proteolysis.

PMID: 17497593 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Branched-chain amino acids and arginine supplementation attenuates skeletal muscle proteolysis induced by moderate exercise in young individuals.
Matsumoto K, Mizuno M, Mizuno T, Dilling-Hansen B, Lahoz A, Bertelsen V, Münster H, Jordening H, Hamada K, Doi T.

Saga Nutraceuticals Research Institute, Otsuka Pharmaceutical Co. Ltd., Yoshinogari, Kanzaki, Saga 842-0195, Japan. kei_matsumoto@research.otsuka.co.jp
Erratum in:

Int J Sports Med. 2007 Jul;28(7):630.
Abstract
This study aimed at evaluating the effect of a single oral intake of branched-chain amino acids (BCAA) with Arg on skeletal muscle protein metabolism during moderate exercise in young individuals. Eight healthy volunteers (4 males and 4 females, means +/- SEM, 26 +/- 1 yrs, 177.8 +/- 3.7 cm, 72.6 +/- 3.9 kg) were studied in a randomized double-blind placebo-controlled cross-over trial. The subjects performed 3 bouts of 20-min cycling exercise (5-min break between each bout) at 126 +/- 13 W corresponding to 50 % of the maximal work intensity. A single oral supplement of either a BCAA drink containing 2 g of BCAA and 0.5 g of Arg or an isocaloric placebo drink was given at 10 min of the 1st exercise bout. Both arterial and venous blood samples were simultaneously taken from the radial artery and the femoral vein, respectively. Blood flow in the femoral artery was determined using the ultrasound Doppler technique. The blood sampling and blood flow measurements were performed at rest, every 10 min during each exercise bout. Net balance of BCAA and Phe across the leg muscles were measured by the arteriovenous difference method. The BCAA ingestion resulted in increases in both the plasma BCAA concentration and BCAA uptake into the working leg. The Phe release from the leg during exercise significantly increased as compared to the basal level in the placebo trial (0.97 +/- 0.28 vs. 0.23 +/- 0.22 micromol/min, p < 0.05). In the BCAA trial, the cumulative Phe release from the leg during the 3rd exercise bout was significantly lower than that in the placebo trial (5.0 +/- 7.4 vs. 35.9 +/- 13.2 micromol/25 min, p < 0.05). These results suggest that endurance exercise at moderate intensity enhances proteolysis in working muscles, and a single oral intake of 2 g of BCAA with Arg at onset of exercise effectively suppresses exercise-induced skeletal muscle proteolysis.

PMID: 17497593 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Tom Mutaffis
12-16-2010, 04:02 PM
Same product, I've used Creatine500 and Results a few times in the past 2 years. Both worked great in the beginning but not so good lately. I was thinking my body is just getting immuned to the dosage?

I use Nitrean, every night before bed with some natural peanut butter. Depending on when I lift my pre-workout varies. Most of the time it's Nitrean, banana, and greek yogurt.

That is interesting about the creatine.

In my opinion BCAA's should be classified more in the same category as protein shakes (food supplement) rather than comparing them to supplements like Creatine or Beta Alanine (performance enhancers). Depending on your overall diet and training program they can be quite beneficial, but may not provide a sudden 'boost'.

My reason for asking about pre-workout nutrition/supplements is that although they do not directly impact size or strength gains you can use stimulants to help increase training intensity. This will indirectly provide better results if this is an area where you feel that you could use some improvement (some people are naturally motivated/energetic/etc.).

BCAA's would be most beneficial for individuals who are following a restricted diet, training with high intensity, involved in sports (specifically endurance sports), or have trouble meeting their dietary objectives.

They are not necessarily meant to replace protein shakes, but instead can be utilized in different ways. The most common and most beneficial application for most trainees would be intra-workout.

covpride
12-16-2010, 04:06 PM
I've been taking it pre workout for 2 weeks, it seems to help me feel better in the gym. I don't eat before my workout so, taking a serving of bcaa's seems to keep me feeling a bit better while i'm in there. I feel better, so I'll keep using the BCAA's.

ThomasG
12-16-2010, 05:29 PM
The possible combinatory effects of acute consumption of caffeine, creatine, and amino acids on the improvement of anaerobic running performance in humans.
Fukuda DH, Smith AE, Kendall KL, Stout JR.
Metabolic and Body Composition Laboratory, Department of Health and Exercise Science, University of Oklahoma, Norman, OK 73019, USA. david.fukuda@ou.edu
Abstract
Preexercise nutritional investigations have recently become a popular avenue of examining the interaction of multiple ingredients on exercise and training methods. The critical velocity (CV) test is used to quantify the relationship between total running distance and time to exhaustion (TTE), yielding aerobic (CV) and anaerobic parameters (anaerobic running capacity [ARC]). The purpose of this study was to examine the hypothesis that a preexercise supplement containing caffeine, creatine, and amino acids (Game Time; Corr-Jen Laboratories Inc, Aurora, CO) would positively impact CV and ARC in college-aged men and women. In a single-blind crossover design, 10 participants consumed the preexercise supplement (ACT) or placebo (PL) before each testing session. Each participant completed runs to exhaustion on a treadmill at 110%, 90% (day 1), and 105% and 100% (day 2) of the peak velocity (PV) determined from a graded exercise test. The ACT elicited a 10.8% higher ARC (P = .02) compared with the PL, whereas no difference was found in CV (0.6%, P = .38). The TTE was greater for the ACT than the PL at 110% (ACT = 125.7 ± 9.6 seconds, PL = 117.3 ± 12.6 seconds), 105% (ACT = 156.9 ± 11.0 seconds, PL = 143.8 ± 12.9 seconds), and 100% PV (ACT = 185.7 ± 10.7 seconds, PL = 169.7 ± 12.8 seconds) (P = .01-.04); but there was no difference for the TTE at 90% PV (ACT = 353.5 ± 52.7 seconds, PL = 332.7 ± 54.0 seconds) (P = .08). These findings suggest that the acute ingestion of this preexercise supplement may be an effective strategy for improving anaerobic performance, but appears to have no effect on aerobic power.

low participant study. Interesting nevertheless.

ELmx479
12-16-2010, 09:48 PM
That is interesting about the creatine.

In my opinion BCAA's should be classified more in the same category as protein shakes (food supplement) rather than comparing them to supplements like Creatine or Beta Alanine (performance enhancers). Depending on your overall diet and training program they can be quite beneficial, but may not provide a sudden 'boost'.

My reason for asking about pre-workout nutrition/supplements is that although they do not directly impact size or strength gains you can use stimulants to help increase training intensity. This will indirectly provide better results if this is an area where you feel that you could use some improvement (some people are naturally motivated/energetic/etc.).

BCAA's would be most beneficial for individuals who are following a restricted diet, training with high intensity, involved in sports (specifically endurance sports), or have trouble meeting their dietary objectives.

They are not necessarily meant to replace protein shakes, but instead can be utilized in different ways. The most common and most beneficial application for most trainees would be intra-workout.

Very good reply. Thanks for that info Tom.

anonymous1
12-18-2010, 09:36 AM
I am just browsing pubmed studies. I think I got to 200 or so and needed a break. I will be browsing all 900+ and posting the ones I think are good. I figure this will be interesting to anyone considering the product.

As I said originally, the last time I really looked into them was 2004 or so. Fortunately, there seems to be quite a few recent studies. I disregard any study where the placebo does not contain protein.

Overally, I think Tom's post sums it up. It is a useful supplement for those who are on a calorie restricted diet that also restricts protein to a significant degree. For those on a calorie surplus with plenty of protein I am not seeing anything to justify the cost of supplementation but I am only 20% through the studies.

I realize that studies are not necessarily the most important information available, but for a product that doesn't have a noticeable effect and does not make much physiological sense with a adequate protein it is pretty much all we have to go on.

f=ma
12-18-2010, 10:08 AM
Very good reply. Thanks for that info Tom.

aye, agrd. without calorie restriction, i would not use because regular food within a well designed gaining diet really should fill any bodily need for amino acids.

chris mason
12-19-2010, 08:52 PM
aye, agrd. without calorie restriction, i would not use because regular food within a well designed gaining diet really should fill any bodily need for amino acids.

I used to think the same thing, but since using our product I have seen a positive difference in my training and trust me when I say I am in a caloric surplus...:)

f=ma
12-21-2010, 06:13 PM
what anecdotal differences have you seen chris? im listening lol

chris mason
12-21-2010, 10:21 PM
what anecdotal differences have you seen chris? im listening lol

Increased strength, less soreness, and the ability to tolerate ridiculous (for me) training loads better.

Tom Mutaffis
12-23-2010, 12:29 AM
I have also used a BCAA supplement in a calorie surplus and believe that it did provide positive effects; am looking forward to seeing what type of impact BCAA+ will have as I increase my training volume/intensity for an upcoming strongman contest.

Ryan Celli
12-23-2010, 12:20 PM
I've been using one serving once a day, for about 2 weeks now.I usually take it mid day after a meal.

I really like it. The taste is great and defiantly one of the best dissolving bcaa's i've ever used.

So far I noticed less soreness, and more endurance in training. I didn't think I would notice much. I figured I would have the aminos covered in protein, seems I was wrong.

SDS
01-15-2011, 11:38 AM
Got my jug yesterday. Tastes like grape Kool-Aid. I'm actually considering mixing grape Kool-Aid (pre-sweetened) and a scoop of GlycoMaize in with the BCAA powder to sip on during training.

vdizenzo
01-17-2011, 05:47 PM
I've been using one serving once a day, for about 2 weeks now.I usually take it mid day after a meal.

I really like it. The taste is great and defiantly one of the best dissolving bcaa's i've ever used.

So far I noticed less soreness, and more endurance in training. I didn't think I would notice much. I figured I would have the aminos covered in protein, seems I was wrong.

It really is impressive how well it mixes. So many BCAA products hardly mix at all.

Travis Bell
01-17-2011, 09:00 PM
Another thumbs up from me.

I take it during every training session or sometime between meals on non training days and it's made a very noticible difference in my recovery.

Was a little skeptical of the flavor since I'm not typically a fan of grape, but it really is darn tasty stuff.

f=ma
02-20-2011, 07:37 AM
i ran out of BCAA+ and tried the primaforce again.. its SO bad.. i am still making a bitter face from the terrible, wrenching taste from 10m ago

Mark!
02-20-2011, 03:32 PM
Haha Tim. I haven't tried At Larges BCAA yet but will soon. I've been taking Labrada's BCAA 5000, and really am enjoying it taking it intra workout. I feel it increases my go power, my stamina and recovery quite a bit. Been taking it for about 3 weeks now.

chris mason
02-20-2011, 06:00 PM
Mark,

Give us a try, you will be glad you did :).

Mark!
02-20-2011, 06:12 PM
Chris, you know I'll be buying from you fellas soon. I bought this from a buddy because he was rotating stock and it was 50% off, he's the only other guy I'll buy from besides ALN, plus, it helps support this awesome forum.