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jAy_Dub
12-13-2010, 11:08 AM
So I decided to go for it. April 16th will be my first show ever, the NPC Iowa State/Central States. That's about 17.5 weeks from now. I'm going to keep a pic log from here until the show.

I'm working with Alex Azarian, beginning at the 16 week mark so I dont have to worry about ****. Just listen and do exactly as he says. He's done a lot of national level shows and prepped many guys, all coming in shredded to the bone. I expect him to do the same for me.

Here's what I've done since mid October, the second pic is from a few days ago. First pic I weigh around 235, second pic is closer to 218...

29818

http://www.wannabebig.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=29818&d=1292263322

My diet is as follows

Meal 1: 1 cup oats, 3 scoops protein
Meal 2: 10 oz. steak, 4 oz. jasmine rice
Meal 3: 10 oz. chicken, 4 oz. jasmine rice
Meal 4: Same as 2
Meal 5: Same as 3
Meal 6: 2 scoops protein, handful of almonds

Been eating this the past 2 months. Sometimes I'll eat something other than rice (bread, tortilla, mashed potatoes, etc) but the amount is all the same.

Usually eating 1-2 cheat meals a week. Unfortunately that will have to come to an end here pretty soon...

My focus is to get as absolutely shredded as possible. Size is something I dont have so theres no changing that at this point...

chevelle2291
12-13-2010, 11:19 AM
In on this for sure.

I'll try to make it to the show if im free.

ThomasG
12-13-2010, 11:25 AM
Vascular!! I know cameras don't show it very well but I can for sure tell your are a lot more vascular, especially in the legs. Not to mention the pelvic veins. Looks like you're well on your way. That's one hell of a frame to fill out.

mchicia1
12-13-2010, 11:43 AM
How tall are you?

jAy_Dub
12-13-2010, 11:50 AM
In on this for sure.

I'll try to make it to the show if im free.

Hell yea bro, if you're in the area that'd be cool to meet someone from the boards.


Vascular!! I know cameras don't show it very well but I can for sure tell your are a lot more vascular, especially in the legs. Not to mention the pelvic veins. Looks like you're well on your way. That's one hell of a frame to fill out.

You're right, my legs are pretty damn vascular right now, more so than they've ever been. And yeah, my frame sucks, my arms and legs are so damn long its going to take years of growing to to fill them out, if they ever fill out...


How tall are you?

6'2.

mchicia1
12-13-2010, 11:58 AM
You're right, my legs are pretty damn vascular right now, more so than they've ever been. And yeah, my frame sucks, my arms and legs are so damn long its going to take years of growing to to fill them out, if they ever fill out...



6'2.

Your legs are impressive and yes I know how it feels to have a ridiculously hard frame to fill out.

Cards
12-13-2010, 11:58 AM
huge difference, especially in the legs.

ThomasG
12-13-2010, 12:58 PM
I like to sing this when I get vascular haha.

QueQ4SqfbEA

f=ma
12-13-2010, 07:32 PM
jay, looking great. you have a great setup going here and i'm looking forward to seeing the results!

Behemoth
12-14-2010, 09:30 AM
Awesome jay. Link us to the log

DavyRen
12-15-2010, 12:08 PM
looking great Jay, i'll be keeping an eye on your progress over the next few months I can't even imagine what you are going to look like in that time. :thumbup:

f=ma
12-15-2010, 02:02 PM
Jay how are you going to structure your lifting??

mchicia1
12-15-2010, 02:06 PM
How is the cutting diet influencing your mental well being? I read a few guys journals and seems like at least a couple of them have gone off the deep end a little bit :). Just curious is all because one of these days I am going to have to do it...in about 30 pounds.

Phenom
12-15-2010, 02:24 PM
Looking lean man. Do you know your bf% in the first pic?

Behemoth
12-15-2010, 02:25 PM
How is the cutting diet influencing your mental well being? I read a few guys journals and seems like at least a couple of them have gone off the deep end a little bit :). Just curious is all because one of these days I am going to have to do it...in about 30 pounds.

I'm sure he's fine now. Ask him that in 2 or 3 more months.

jAy_Dub
12-17-2010, 12:09 AM
Awesome jay. Link us to the log

Currently I have no log man, just this... I've been so damn bombarded between my two jobs and the gym that I don't think I'd have enough free time to keep it updated.


looking great Jay, i'll be keeping an eye on your progress over the next few months I can't even imagine what you are going to look like in that time. :thumbup:

Thanks DR, we'll see what my body is capable of :evillaugh:


Jay how are you going to structure your lifting??

Right now I'm doing a 5 day split- legs, shoulders, back, chest, and arms. I've been going mon-fri with weekends off but I think I'm going to change it up to 2 on 1 off to hopefully speed up recovery. Big body parts get 4 exercises, 2 working sets each, and smaller body parts like bi's and tri's get 2 exercises. I have been curious lately tho if I wouldn't benefit more from working each body part twice a week with less volume each workout... Who knows...


How is the cutting diet influencing your mental well being? I read a few guys journals and seems like at least a couple of them have gone off the deep end a little bit :). Just curious is all because one of these days I am going to have to do it...in about 30 pounds.

Like behemoth said, I'm not far enough in for this to be getting to my head yet. The past two months if I've been craving something really really bad I just give in. The true diet will begin in a week with absolutely no cheating.


Looking lean man. Do you know your bf% in the first pic?

I have no idea, your guess is as good as mine bro. Never measured it before...


I'm sure he's fine now. Ask him that in 2 or 3 more months.

Dude, is that a recent pic in your avatar? Looking ****ing solid!!

RBB
12-17-2010, 09:38 AM
Jay, you are looking very good, my friend. Lean already and legs, as always, are a standout. They somewhat overpower your upper body, but you've got plenty of time to work on that later on. Strucuturally speaking, I think you could add a ton of mass and still keep your lines....you've got the height and a long torso to do this. I could see you competing in the superheavies in a few years. Good luck man, I'm sure Alex will bring you in shredded. I've never seen him bring anybody in in less than perfect condition. Looking forward to tracking your progress.

Time+Patience
12-17-2010, 08:07 PM
Looking very sharp, and it looks like you could be doing a contest earlier than mid April. I reallly don't see how much more weight you could drop? Do you plan on cruising from here on out?

Your lats taper out very well and you have solid sweep to your quads.

When you get the time post more pictures as it speaks more for your overall development.

What made you start dieting down when you got to 235? It looks like you could have tried to gain for another 2 months and then start your contest prep. Did you have plans to compete the whole time?

yes, lots of questions.

jAy_Dub
12-19-2010, 04:09 PM
Jay, you are looking very good, my friend. Lean already and legs, as always, are a standout. They somewhat overpower your upper body, but you've got plenty of time to work on that later on. Strucuturally speaking, I think you could add a ton of mass and still keep your lines....you've got the height and a long torso to do this. I could see you competing in the superheavies in a few years. Good luck man, I'm sure Alex will bring you in shredded. I've never seen him bring anybody in in less than perfect condition. Looking forward to tracking your progress.

Thanks man. I've never really thought my legs were that far ahead of my upper body, but ****, I'd rather have it this way than tiny legs haha. Superheavies would be amazing, but I have yet to figure out how I can add that type of size. I've tried a few different things... Higher carbs, higher fats, higher protein in different combinations. Higher dosages... Heavy weights, high volume, low voume, blah blah. Regardless of what I do to get bigger, its soooooooo slow, and if I up my overall cals a lot I just get fat along with the new growth... I need to hire someone who specializes specifically in adding size.. I wish Dante was willing but it seems like he only works with a very limited amount of people these days. What hes done with Dusty Hanshaw in just a couple years has been amazing.


Looking very sharp, and it looks like you could be doing a contest earlier than mid April. I reallly don't see how much more weight you could drop? Do you plan on cruising from here on out?

Your lats taper out very well and you have solid sweep to your quads.

When you get the time post more pictures as it speaks more for your overall development.

What made you start dieting down when you got to 235? It looks like you could have tried to gain for another 2 months and then start your contest prep. Did you have plans to compete the whole time?

yes, lots of questions.

Hey TP, I have a lot more weight to drop I think... Probably 20 lbs when all is said and done. I'm lean now, but not THAT lean. I want to suffer the least amount as possible so I started lean. My focus is solely on conditioning... I know I couldn't have added much more size after I hit 235. I hadn't been that heavy in awhile and once my body gets to a certain point I just basically stop growing and I just get fat. And yes, this was the plan all along. I did Alex's "offseason" diet plan he set up for me for 2 months to get prepared for his "prep" diet. Here are a few pics of himself and his competitors. Looking at these, I have a lot more fat to lose.

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs123.snc1/5294_1035686549337_1740682824_75699_5130691_n.jpg

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs201.snc1/6830_1038880349180_1740682824_81903_3555332_n.jpg

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs601.snc4/58167_1206106609732_1740682824_399986_3469013_n.jpg

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash1/hs754.ash1/164583_1256739115513_1740682824_478133_2625354_n.jpg

RBB
12-19-2010, 08:15 PM
Thanks man. I've never really thought my legs were that far ahead of my upper body, but ****, I'd rather have it this way than tiny legs haha. Superheavies would be amazing, but I have yet to figure out how I can add that type of size. I've tried a few different things... Higher carbs, higher fats, higher protein in different combinations. Higher dosages... Heavy weights, high volume, low voume, blah blah. Regardless of what I do to get bigger, its soooooooo slow, and if I up my overall cals a lot I just get fat along with the new growth... I need to hire someone who specializes specifically in adding size.. I wish Dante was willing but it seems like he only works with a very limited amount of people these days. What hes done with Dusty Hanshaw in just a couple years has been amazing.


I don't think they're that far ahead, just a little bit. You have a nice flow....they just always jump out to me. I hear you, man, Dante would be an awesome guy to hire, but as you mentioned, he doesn't really take guys on anymore. What he did with Dusty in just a couple years is pretty insane. Alex is a great prep guy, but IMO, probably not a good guy to help you put on the size. His specialty seems to be getting guys shredded. One thing I have noticed, though, with both him and his trainees is that they never seem to put on any significant amounts of muscle in the off season. I think he is too focused on staying lean.

Have you thought about Shelby or Phil for an offseason program? Shelby has made some very big improvements over the last couple of years. I think he could put together a pretty good program for you.

Behemoth
12-19-2010, 08:57 PM
Wow, he works cheap. But I thought dusty was coached by chris aceto last year?

jAy_Dub
12-19-2010, 09:11 PM
I don't think they're that far ahead, just a little bit. You have a nice flow....they just always jump out to me. I hear you, man, Dante would be an awesome guy to hire, but as you mentioned, he doesn't really take guys on anymore. What he did with Dusty in just a couple years is pretty insane. Alex is a great prep guy, but IMO, probably not a good guy to help you put on the size. His specialty seems to be getting guys shredded. One thing I have noticed, though, with both him and his trainees is that they never seem to put on any significant amounts of muscle in the off season. I think he is too focused on staying lean.

Have you thought about Shelby or Phil for an offseason program? Shelby has made some very big improvements over the last couple of years. I think he could put together a pretty good program for you.

Damn, I forgot all about Shelby... You're definitely right about the recent size he's put on... He ****ing blew up! And Phil, well I personally think he's a scumbag. Anyone I know who's worked with him said hes a joke. Cookie cutter bs, nothing is personalized. His first recommendation is to buy his crappy LBA's. Glycerol and protein... Big deal. He occasionally writes something worth reading over on Pro M, but from what I can tell he doesnt give a rats ass about this sport anymore. He's only in it for the money.

Oh and you're right on as far as Alex goes... I didnt add any size working with him.. Even after telling him thats all I cared about, he didn't change much at all as far as my diet. And I don't think it was because he doesnt care or is lazy, I just don't think he KNOWS how to put size on guys. I mean he hasn't changed much at all at Nationals the past few years...

jAy_Dub
12-19-2010, 09:15 PM
Wow, he works cheap. But I thought dusty was coached by chris aceto last year?

Yeah, I think Aceto did his diet leading up to Nationals but Dusty gave Dante credit for all of his offseason growth.

RBB
12-20-2010, 07:02 AM
Damn, I forgot all about Shelby... You're definitely right about the recent size he's put on... He ****ing blew up! And Phil, well I personally think he's a scumbag. Anyone I know who's worked with him said hes a joke. Cookie cutter bs, nothing is personalized. His first recommendation is to buy his crappy LBA's. Glycerol and protein... Big deal. He occasionally writes something worth reading over on Pro M, but from what I can tell he doesnt give a rats ass about this sport anymore. He's only in it for the money.

Oh and you're right on as far as Alex goes... I didnt add any size working with him.. Even after telling him thats all I cared about, he didn't change much at all as far as my diet. And I don't think it was because he doesnt care or is lazy, I just don't think he KNOWS how to put size on guys. I mean he hasn't changed much at all at Nationals the past few years...

I agree, bro. Alex really doesn't seem to know how to put any size on. He has looked exactly the same for years now. No knock on him, though. He looks great and there's nothing wrong with staying lean. I just think there are better guys out there for an off season program.

Send cphafner a PM. I know he worked with Shelby for a few months last year and was pretty pleased with the results. He put on a good amount of size while he was working with him. Yeah, I hear ya on Phil. His only advice seems to be drink LBA's and eat only when hungry....which, for me, would not work at all. I don't even think I could maintain weight like that. I do find his approach towards training interesting, though. Very low volume, high frequency.

Keith
12-20-2010, 10:21 AM
Have you thought about Phil for an offseason program?

This is the only poor advice I've ever seen you give on here, LOL.

I went through Phil and it was honestly the biggest mistake I've made with money and to this day, I get angry when I think about it. He was a complete jackass, had the writing of a 10 year old and like you said, pushed his LBAs on you and told you to only eat when hungry... which was ******ed and wouldn't work for many people. When I asked ANY questions, he'd become very angry and never answer any of them.

Keith
12-20-2010, 10:28 AM
Jay, awesome to hear this, bro! I'll be following along for sure. I don't have anything to add other than what others have already told you. Your legs are obviously a strong point and very lean already so I don't doubt you'll be shredded by the time you step on stage. I wish you the best of luck.

RBB
12-20-2010, 10:53 AM
This is the only poor advice I've ever seen you give on here, LOL.

I went through Phil and it was honestly the biggest mistake I've made with money and to this day, I get angry when I think about it. He was a complete jackass, had the writing of a 10 year old and like you said, pushed his LBAs on you and told you to only eat when hungry... which was ******ed and wouldn't work for many people. When I asked ANY questions, he'd become very angry and never answer any of them.

Keith, was he just doing your diet? Or was it both diet and training?

Keith
12-20-2010, 11:20 AM
Keith, was he just doing your diet? Or was it both diet and training?

Just diet.

In case you're interested, this is copied and pasted from Phil:

I want you to eat ONLY when hungry. Eat these nutrient grams, ok? 50 grams of carbs, 38 grams of protein, 17 grams of fat at EACH MEAL. After ten days, tell me how many meals on average you have eaten, ok? This way we can see what calorie number we have to be to keep your bodyweight the same/lose/gain. Please weigh yourself every day at the same time.Olive/coconut/walnut oil for fats, fruits/juices and green vegetables ONLY for carbs, liquid aminos and eggs, chicken, milk, soy or fish for protein.No powders for now........use my last name ( HERNON) at trueprotein.com, in the discount box, to get the Lean Beef Aminos.

1. Lean Beef Aminos
2. Kre Alkalyn-( better than monohydrate)
3. 1 Aspirin per day
4. Vitamin/mineral
5. Fish Oils
6. COQ10
7. If on AAS, DHEA...25mg morning/25mg nightly

Behemoth
12-20-2010, 11:36 AM
That's actually a really interesting way to find maintenance, as it is so closely tied to hunger and satiety when eating quality foods.

Keith
12-20-2010, 12:01 PM
That's actually a really interesting way to find maintenance, as it is so closely tied to hunger and satiety when eating quality foods.

It is, but it is impossible to follow for 90%+ of people.

The vast majority of people can only eat on their breaks during their daily job. If I ate those macros for every meal, I'd be starving once I reach my breaks.

RBB
12-21-2010, 07:49 AM
Just diet.

In case you're interested, this is copied and pasted from Phil:

I want you to eat ONLY when hungry. Eat these nutrient grams, ok? 50 grams of carbs, 38 grams of protein, 17 grams of fat at EACH MEAL. After ten days, tell me how many meals on average you have eaten, ok? This way we can see what calorie number we have to be to keep your bodyweight the same/lose/gain. Please weigh yourself every day at the same time.Olive/coconut/walnut oil for fats, fruits/juices and green vegetables ONLY for carbs, liquid aminos and eggs, chicken, milk, soy or fish for protein.No powders for now........use my last name ( HERNON) at trueprotein.com, in the discount box, to get the Lean Beef Aminos.

1. Lean Beef Aminos
2. Kre Alkalyn-( better than monohydrate)
3. 1 Aspirin per day
4. Vitamin/mineral
5. Fish Oils
6. COQ10
7. If on AAS, DHEA...25mg morning/25mg nightly

I agree, Keith. Not very practical for most people. I suppose if you had nothing to do all day but eat and train then this approach would be more effective. I have my own (unfavorable) opinions about Phil....he comes across as kind of dick and doesn't seem to know how to handle any sort of debate or questions about his methods. He immediately resorts to insults, which is very unprofessional to say the least. I guess he is either a love him or hate him type of guy. I spoke to BCC a few years ago when he was using Phil's program and he had only good things to say about the guy, so who knows?

Jay, sorry if I derailed your thread here, bro. You are looking good, man. Keep the updates coming as the contest gets closer. I look forward to following your progress.

jAy_Dub
01-21-2011, 08:04 AM
Heres a quick update.

Taking this nice and slow, I'm like 13 weeks out at this point. Still got plenty of time :)

Hopefully some big changes to come in the next couple of weeks...

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/hs069.snc6/167920_491274810097_500475097_6268925_6679227_n.jpg

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/hs264.snc6/179274_491274830097_500475097_6268926_2227738_n.jpg

jAy_Dub
01-21-2011, 08:13 AM
Oh yeah, and RBB, you said you were interested in Phil's frequent training split. Well I actually started that up a couple weeks ago because I felt so burnout from the routine Alex gave me. Before I was doing a Mon-Fri split with chest/hams, tris/bis, legs, shoulders, and then back each getting their own day. Each bodypart would get 3-4 exercises with 2 sets to failure for each exercise.

It was waaayyy too much for me, I felt like **** all the time, didnt want to workout, tired and worn down, moody to everyone around me, so I decided to switch things up. Now I gotta admit I feel great since switching to Phils style of training.

His routine now is a 3 day on, 1 day off (originally it was 2 on, 1 off). Chest/back, squats/hams, and then bis/tris/shoulders.

Its simple, you pick one exercise for each muscle and warmup with 2 sets, then for working sets you do 8-12 reps to failure, decrease 10%, go to failure, and then decrease another 10% til failure. Thats it. Then you move on to the next muscle. The only muscle group that gets more than 1 exercise is back which gets 2.

Very simple, and it seems to be working very affectively. I wasn't going up on any lifts with Alex's routine and now I'm increasing weight all the time even while cutting with Phil's style.

Allen Cress
01-21-2011, 11:04 AM
You are very lean for 13 weeks out so be very careful at this point. Being soo lean your body will start slowing things down to survive so to speak and you can lose muscle if you overdiet. With 13 weeks left and being so lean you should definitely have some re-feed days thrown in at some point depending on bio-feedback.

Just be cautious as I've seen many competitors get soo caught up in being extremely conditioned they lose muscle but don'r see it til its too late.

Looking great, keep up good work!

Behemoth
01-21-2011, 11:25 AM
What are the macros working out to at this point? Any carb rotating? Refeeds? Cheat meals?

You definitely look increasingly lean. It might just be the picture but you look pretty flat. You don't appear as hard in the quads as you did a month ago and seems less vascularity all over. Maybe you could benefit from a couple higher carb days rotated in? Maybe it's just the pictures. I'm sure you have a very keen eye as to what's going on with you.

I don't remember, have you competed before or are you a veteran? You're gonna do great man.

jAy_Dub
01-21-2011, 12:11 PM
Thanks for the advice guys.

I've been cheating about once a week, and when I do I feel guilty as ****!

What would you guys recommend as far as a carb up day goes?

Here is my current diet

Meal 1- 1 cup oats, 3 scoops pro
Meal 2- 10 oz chicken, 4 oz rice, veggies
Meal 3- 10 oz steak, 4 oz rice, veggies
Meal 4- 10 oz chicken, 4 oz rice
Meal 5- Same as 4 OR 2.5 scoops pro with some oats and banana (post workout)
Meal 6- typically 1 whole egg and 11 whites with a salad

So I'm getting moderate carbs here, basically zero fats... Literally probably under 20 grams of fat from food. I take 6 grams of fish oil daily, though.

Alex cut out all the fats about a month ago. My cardio is up to 45 minutes 5x per week.

So after reading this over, do you guys think I should add in a higher carb day maybe? I mean I'm sticking to my trainers advice here but I would enjoy a day I can load up on food since I'm pretty far ahead of schedule... I trust my trainer 100% and he recommends no cheating if possible but one day a week isn't going to kill me at this point, atleast up until the 8 week out mark or so.

Thanks for the input so far Allen and Behemoth. Oh and Behemoth, I'm no vet, this is my first time prepping for a show. I'll be honest, I'm nervous as **** right now on how this is going to turn out... I feel small as hell

jAy_Dub
01-21-2011, 12:14 PM
Oh and one other thing, i agree with the flat comment. I'm very very flat compared to the first set of pics. Vascularity doesn't show itself nearly as much as it used to since I've cut down on carbs.

Behemoth
01-21-2011, 12:36 PM
Well your trainer knows WAY better than me without question. And really you should follow whatever he says. Having said that...

My calculations came up that you're eating about 165g carbs per day from rice and oats. Probably another 20 or so from the salad and protein powder?
With 6 days of training and 3.75 hours of cardio per week consuming less than 1200g of carbs weekly I'm not suprised you're flattening out.

I may be wrong but I want to say fully depleted it takes around 6-7g of carbs per pound of LBM to fill out (plus a hundred or two in the liver). So if you're around 200lbs of LBM and pretty depleted you could probably safely get away with eating a quite ridiculous number in your current state that will only go to liver and muscle.

How often does Alex get update pics from you and is he concerned if about you becoming very depleted with still 13 weeks to go? To be honest if I were in your shoes I'd probably put away a 500-1000g refeed and assess how you look and how the next week progresses off of it. With 13 weeks you have certainly have room to see if this slows you, speeds you up, or keeps you leaning out the same.

But again, your coach probably knows much better than me.

RBB
01-21-2011, 12:41 PM
Jay, you're looking very good and way ahead of schedule. Back shot looks great. If I were you I would have a high carb day once a week right now. However, Alex definitely knows what he's doing....tough call. One thing I have noticed about his guys, though....they come in extremely shredded but sometimes a little flat. He definitely stresses conditioning over size. I guess it all depends on what you're going for. I don't see how one high carb day a week could do anything but help you at this point, though. You're ahead of schedule already with plenty of time to go.

jAy_Dub
01-21-2011, 02:50 PM
Thanks for the advice guys.

Alex actually told me "flat is good right now" a week or so ago. And I trust him on that. But seeing as I've been dieting going on 10 weeks already, a carb up day sounds great. It may be exactly what I need...

For now, I think I'll give it a try. Fridays are my day off so I'll start it up today. Lots of pretzels, clean cereals, etc on the way :)

Any good ideas on some half way healthy carb up foods??

RBB, youre right bro, one thing I have noticed with Alex himself is that he comes in to shows flat and doesnt add much size each year (like we've talked about before). CRAZY conditioning though. I hate to say anything negative about him though, hes cool as hell, responds to me withing MINUTES, answers all my questions with long explanations, and is just a overall cool ass guy. I'd recommend him to anyone. He puts his heart into each client.


Behemoth, are you going to school for nutrition? I like your calculated approach. Honestly I havent even looked into exact numbers, I just do what I'm told.

Behemoth
01-21-2011, 02:59 PM
Thanks for the advice guys.

Alex actually told me "flat is good right now" a week or so ago. And I trust him on that. But seeing as I've been dieting going on 10 weeks already, a carb up day sounds great. It may be exactly what I need...

For now, I think I'll give it a try. Fridays are my day off so I'll start it up today. Lots of pretzels, clean cereals, etc on the way :)

Any good ideas on some half way healthy carb up foods??

RBB, youre right bro, one thing I have noticed with Alex himself is that he comes in to shows flat and doesnt add much size each year (like we've talked about before). CRAZY conditioning though. I hate to say anything negative about him though, hes cool as hell, responds to me withing MINUTES, answers all my questions with long explanations, and is just a overall cool ass guy. I'd recommend him to anyone. He puts his heart into each client.


Behemoth, are you going to school for nutrition? I like your calculated approach. Honestly I havent even looked into exact numbers, I just do what I'm told.


Lol, no not at all. Just dieted a time or two.

For refeed foods there are some great threads on that over on lyle mcdonalds board. Soft pretzels and cereals are definetly favorites of mine though.

Allen Cress
01-23-2011, 06:23 PM
One thing you should do is always listen and do everything your coach says regardless if we agree with him or not. If you still want to make changes then there is a trust issue. With that being said things you should or shouldn't do would b based on your energy levels, concentration levels, hunger , appetite , sleeping patterns, weight loss, among other factors. As lean as you are at this point and with 3 months to go I would definitely be making some tweaks to the diet and cardio to make sure to preserve muscle. Your training program is also important.

But since you hired a coach you should listen and do everything he says or go somewhere else for a coach. Trust is important in a coaching relationship. I've been doing this for over a decade now and anytime I have a client and they start doing other things than what is prescribed it can and usually does mess up the prep.

jAy_Dub
01-23-2011, 07:10 PM
One thing you should do is always listen and do everything your coach says regardless if we agree with him or not. If you still want to make changes then there is a trust issue. With that being said things you should or shouldn't do would b based on your energy levels, concentration levels, hunger , appetite , sleeping patterns, weight loss, among other factors. As lean as you are at this point and with 3 months to go I would definitely be making some tweaks to the diet and cardio to make sure to preserve muscle. Your training program is also important.

But since you hired a coach you should listen and do everything he says or go somewhere else for a coach. Trust is important in a coaching relationship. I've been doing this for over a decade now and anytime I have a client and they start doing other things than what is prescribed it can and usually does mess up the prep.

You're right man. And I made sure to tell him about it. I'm not going to be doing things secretly behind his back or anything.. I still have 12 weeks, so one high carb day isnt going to kill me at this point, thats for sure.

I paid a lot of money for this guy, so I'm definitely not going to mess this up...

cphafner
01-23-2011, 08:38 PM
about time you posted pics over here and not on that other site! haha. Looking great man.

jAy_Dub
01-26-2011, 01:07 AM
about time you posted pics over here and not on that other site! haha. Looking great man.

Thanks Conor, I had to come back to my roots, this is where at the madness began :evillaugh:

More pics to come this Sunday. Cardio is up to 50 minutes now and Alex wants updates by the end of the week. I'm thinkin this week is going to show some significant changes :)

We'll see. I'll take shots of all the mandatory poses. I have to start working on those hard from here on out. Overall I'm clueless when it comes to posing...

jAy_Dub
01-30-2011, 08:58 PM
Heres a few I just sent in to my trainer by his request but tomorrow when I have more time I'll be taking lots of all of the mandatory poses and stuff so I'll pose them up when I do. For now, nothing special but leaning up pretty nicely.

jAy_Dub
01-30-2011, 09:20 PM
Just for ****s and giggles here is what I looked like when I first started dieting hard.

https://mail.google.com/mail/?ui=2&ik=669c94890a&view=att&th=12dda4aeb451aa34&attid=0.1&disp=inline&realattid=f_gjkvcopd0&zw

https://mail.google.com/mail/?ui=2&ik=669c94890a&view=att&th=12dda4aeb451aa34&attid=0.2&disp=inline&realattid=f_gjkvd32o1&zw

Behemoth
01-31-2011, 11:09 AM
Big noticeable improvements from you last set. Quads look grainier and overall you look leaner and harder. Looks like your lower back is being the most stubborn area and will be the very last to go.

Good stuff. What do you weigh now? Is the diet still as it has been or has alex mixed in any tweaks or changes? You are doing very well under him no doubt.

ThomasG
01-31-2011, 11:34 AM
Definitely lookin leaner and harder.

jAy_Dub
01-31-2011, 12:27 PM
Diet hasn't changed too much really. I told him I was having fat free cheese on my egg whites and some salads and he put an end to it lol. Same with some very low cal salad dressing.. The basard is taking the only enjoyment I had left! haha

Here are the pics I took today. Still working on that damn side chest shot and tri is horrible as well. Posing is a bitch for me. I'm going to have to create the illusion I'm not so damn tall. I'll get a side chest shot up later when I'm satisfied with my posing.

jAy_Dub
01-31-2011, 12:28 PM
One more.

jAy_Dub
01-31-2011, 12:29 PM
Oh and weight is around 208... Thats very depressing to say the least.

cphafner
01-31-2011, 06:12 PM
What is your plan for the rest of the prep? Lean out more? Fill out? I'm shocked that you are still doing so much cardio when you are lean this far out. Alex certainly get people lean, but sometimes I think they are overdieted.

cphafner
01-31-2011, 06:17 PM
Have you thought about Shelby or Phil for an offseason program? Shelby has made some very big improvements over the last couple of years. I think he could put together a pretty good program for you.

Shelby has been working with John Meadows recently. John writes some really cool and interesting stuff. Would love to see him do some stuff here. Shelby has said he has responded well to the increased volume of mountaindog vs dc training.

jAy_Dub
01-31-2011, 07:48 PM
Cardio goes up by 5 minutes every week til I hit 60 minutes... Next week will be 60 minutes. Then we're cruising in on that...

I've already talked to Shelby about my offseason plan. I plan to use him to take full advantage of my post show rebound I hear so much about. The dude has gone up in weight classes about every damn year! He's a beast and it sure as hell isnt because of great genetics, thats for sure.

cphafner
01-31-2011, 07:54 PM
Cardio goes up by 5 minutes every week til I hit 60 minutes... Next week will be 60 minutes. Then we're cruising in on that...

I've already talked to Shelby about my offseason plan. I plan to use him to take full advantage of my post show rebound I hear so much about. The dude has gone up in weight classes about every damn year! He's a beast and it sure as hell isnt because of great genetics, thats for sure.

Shelby is strong as hell too. He has some impressive dead and squat videos out there.

RBB
02-01-2011, 08:40 AM
Shelby has been working with John Meadows recently. John writes some really cool and interesting stuff. Would love to see him do some stuff here. Shelby has said he has responded well to the increased volume of mountaindog vs dc training.

Yeah, John has some really different ideas and training principles. I'd like to try some of his stuff myself. Jay, looking good, man. You will come in absolutely shredded for this comp, no doubt. Way ahead of the game.

jAy_Dub
02-02-2011, 09:54 AM
Here's a little bit better lighting and stuff.

Alex's wife made some small tweeks on it since she's a photographer.

I need to get some pics up from when I'm in the gym.

http://www.professionalmuscle.com/forums/attachments/members-photos/42549d1296526571-jay-dub-11-weeks-out-dialing-nice-first-contest-jason.jpg

Behemoth
02-02-2011, 10:05 AM
Your hams are looking good also. Very aesthetic leg development on the whole! (no homo)

r2473
02-02-2011, 04:09 PM
Oh and weight is around 208... Thats very depressing to say the least.

What is your target weight? I'm sure you are going more by how you look, but what weight do you think you will be at competition? You are about 6' 3" right?

ThomasG
02-02-2011, 04:47 PM
Your hams are looking good also. Very aesthetic leg development on the whole! (no homo)

Word, mirin quad aesthetics. At a young age you've got a lot of time to grow. I think getting your feet wet here will take your training and motivation to a whole other level.

RBB
02-03-2011, 07:30 AM
I saw the new pics at PM yesterday. Quads and hams look outstanding, Jay. You've got a really good structure, man, broad shoulders and a small waist. A ****load of potential....I think you could add a lot of mass and still remain very aesthetically pleasing....a lot of guys do not have that capability. I think you're gonna do really well for your first show. You're definitely going to be dialed in....keep the updates coming.

f=ma
02-04-2011, 04:10 AM
jay, that front double looks awesome. very good work!! jealous of small waist

Time+Patience
02-05-2011, 07:16 PM
You are looking very solid right now. You are very lean as it, and I thought you were looking ahead of schedule.

I think that Alex might be having you too strict right now. I do believe you could benefit from some higher carb days. I think 165 grams of carbs this far out and at your BW is a bit low to be following daily.

If you put your trust and $$ into your trainer then keep running with him. Just take this first time around as a learning experience and see if things run according to schedule. If things go well then you follow it again next contest.

With the bigger guys conditioning is an area that can suffer, so with superior conditioning you will be ahead of the majority in your weight class.

I'd peg you for top 3 right now, but it depends on who shows up.

jAy_Dub
02-07-2011, 10:37 AM
What is your target weight? I'm sure you are going more by how you look, but what weight do you think you will be at competition? You are about 6' 3" right?

I have no weight in mind, I'm getting as shredded as possible, showing up to the show, weighing in and wherever I get put is where I'll be. I'm not going to mess with the scale... I'm 6'2.



Word, mirin quad aesthetics. At a young age you've got a lot of time to grow. I think getting your feet wet here will take your training and motivation to a whole other level.

I think so too, thanks.


I saw the new pics at PM yesterday. Quads and hams look outstanding, Jay. You've got a really good structure, man, broad shoulders and a small waist. A ****load of potential....I think you could add a lot of mass and still remain very aesthetically pleasing....a lot of guys do not have that capability. I think you're gonna do really well for your first show. You're definitely going to be dialed in....keep the updates coming.

Thanks RBB, like I said over on PM, I can't believe all this talk about potential, its been very motivating for me. things really come together when you diet down.


jay, that front double looks awesome. very good work!! jealous of small waist

Thanks man, you know how to diet, your small waist will be here in no time ;)


You are looking very solid right now. You are very lean as it, and I thought you were looking ahead of schedule.

I think that Alex might be having you too strict right now. I do believe you could benefit from some higher carb days. I think 165 grams of carbs this far out and at your BW is a bit low to be following daily.

If you put your trust and $$ into your trainer then keep running with him. Just take this first time around as a learning experience and see if things run according to schedule. If things go well then you follow it again next contest.

With the bigger guys conditioning is an area that can suffer, so with superior conditioning you will be ahead of the majority in your weight class.

I'd peg you for top 3 right now, but it depends on who shows up.

Top 3 would be awesome, but like you said, all depends who shows up..

I know I shouldnt have, but the other day I ate more carbs because I was feeling run down. At 10 weeks out, a few carb days aren't goin to kill me. 98% of the time I'm on point with exactly what Alex has me doing. I just had a clean carb binge for a couple hours :drooling: I gained 7 pounds in 2 hours flat... lol

The next morning I had lost 5 of those 7 lbs. I'm not worried about it...

Funny thing is, during this whole prep so far (6 weeks), I've only lost 6 lbs. My strength is continuously on the rise and I feel like I'm gaining even more mass in my legs.

jAy_Dub
02-10-2011, 07:25 AM
Things are finally catching up with me.

My 60 hour work weeks, (half of which are very physically demanding, stacking 90 lb boxes, pulling and stocking pallets of Pepsi) in combination with the training, diet, daily hourly cardio and 5-6 hrs of sleep per night is finally taking its toll. The past 2 days have been hell. My legs at work felt like they were going to give out from under me, I couldn't think straight, my whole body was weak and I had really bad anxiety. I wanted so badly to go home and just sleep but luckily I made it through.

I finally got over 7 hours of sleep last night and am feeling better but i'm getting my ass beat right now. And to think, 9.5 more weeks of this? ****!

My only hope right now is to finally land a a good job opportunity I have coming up this Friday. 3 part time jobs is getting old real quick

Anyway, enough complaining here, back to the grind!

Behemoth
02-10-2011, 09:08 AM
Things are finally catching up with me.

My 60 hour work weeks, (half of which are very physically demanding, stacking 90 lb boxes, pulling and stocking pallets of Pepsi) in combination with the training, diet, daily hourly cardio and 5-6 hrs of sleep per night is finally taking its toll. The past 2 days have been hell. My legs at work felt like they were going to give out from under me, I couldn't think straight, my whole body was weak and I had really bad anxiety. I wanted so badly to go home and just sleep but luckily I made it through.

I finally got over 7 hours of sleep last night and am feeling better but i'm getting my ass beat right now. And to think, 9.5 more weeks of this? ****!

My only hope right now is to finally land a a good job opportunity I have coming up this Friday. 3 part time jobs is getting old real quick

Anyway, enough complaining here, back to the grind!

It's gonna all be worth it Jay.

jAy_Dub
02-11-2011, 10:31 AM
It's gonna all be worth it Jay.

Sometimes I wonder lol

Behemoth
02-11-2011, 12:21 PM
Sometimes I wonder lol

Just one of those days. Next time when you catch yourself seeing some new cuts the momentum will swing 180% the other way and you'll have all the focus in the world. Gotta stay tough with those negative mindgames, ride 'em out the good feelings that make it more than worth it will displace them.

I forget, are you doing just one show or multiple shows?

jAy_Dub
02-11-2011, 02:27 PM
Just one of those days. Next time when you catch yourself seeing some new cuts the momentum will swing 180% the other way and you'll have all the focus in the world. Gotta stay tough with those negative mindgames, ride 'em out the good feelings that make it more than worth it will displace them.

I forget, are you doing just one show or multiple shows?

Its two shows in one day. I have no idea how thats going to work... Its the Iowa State show and then the Central State show as well. I dont have a clue in the world what to expect. I've never even been to a show let alone been in one.

Behemoth
02-11-2011, 04:21 PM
How can you possibly do two shows in one day? Unless they're at the same venue and everything is staggered?

jAy_Dub
02-18-2011, 11:23 AM
No pump at all in these and looking soft. I'll have to take the time to get some pics after a workout one of these days. Major difference in vascularity and hardness obviously.

A little over 8 weeks out here, taken this morning, tan and shaved lol.

http://a2.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/184287_10150092989885098_500475097_6477044_4569688_n.jpg

http://a8.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/184646_10150092989910098_500475097_6477045_7150781_n.jpg

http://a5.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/182880_10150092990050098_500475097_6477049_5559943_n.jpg

http://a6.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/183912_10150092989950098_500475097_6477046_7807279_n.jpg

http://a4.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/183564_10150092989980098_500475097_6477047_5138546_n.jpg

http://a3.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/183142_10150092990015098_500475097_6477048_5265810_n.jpg

http://a2.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/184596_10150092990085098_500475097_6477050_4357341_n.jpg

ThomasG
02-18-2011, 01:05 PM
Definitely looking leaner. The most noticeable difference to me in these picks was your abs popping out. Back is looking solid.

f=ma
02-21-2011, 04:00 AM
Definitely looking leaner. The most noticeable difference to me in these picks was your abs popping out. Back is looking solid.

parrot

definition is looking pretty amazing right now

jAy_Dub
02-28-2011, 10:48 AM
Heres a few taken a couple days back.


https://mail.google.com/mail/?attid=0.3&disp=emb&view=att&th=12e6cf3d8cb15883

https://mail.google.com/mail/?attid=0.5&disp=emb&view=att&th=12e6cf3d8cb15883

https://mail.google.com/mail/?attid=0.6&disp=emb&view=att&th=12e6cf3d8cb15883

https://mail.google.com/mail/?attid=0.8&disp=emb&view=att&th=12e6cf3d8cb15883

jAy_Dub
02-28-2011, 10:51 AM
I weighed 210 this morning completely stripped down after showering.

I've weighed anywhere from 205-208 in the past few weeks. This can only mean one thing, I'm adding muscle!

I think its obvious I'm leaning out each week yet my weight is not going down. Now if only I had about 20 more weeks to keep this up I might do ok... lol

cphafner
02-28-2011, 05:51 PM
new photos aren't working

jAy_Dub
03-01-2011, 07:03 PM
Lets try this again...

http://a3.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/184211_10150101146810098_500475097_6559875_5812084_n.jpg

http://a7.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/188880_10150101146880098_500475097_6559877_484378_n.jpg

http://a8.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/190004_10150101146920098_500475097_6559878_1099398_n.jpg

http://a2.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/184607_10150101146990098_500475097_6559879_5601250_n.jpg

http://a8.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/188231_10150101146740098_500475097_6559873_6166087_n.jpg

Behemoth
03-01-2011, 07:28 PM
Garden hoses in the forearms, new abs veins a-creepin' also. Good stuff, can't wait to see the show pics/hear the turnout

cphafner
03-01-2011, 07:49 PM
wow, awesome. That most muscular is killer

RBB
03-02-2011, 08:20 AM
Nice....great vascularity, jay.

DavyRen
03-02-2011, 02:54 PM
Massive improvement over the last few weeks Jay can't wait to see the photos from when you're on stage

Mad Max
03-05-2011, 05:51 AM
Physqiue looks incredible, especially the legs. Just a few questions as I'm a similar height and weight to what you were before the cut. What's your arm size? And, as a tall fella, what exercise has worked best for your quads?

jAy_Dub
03-09-2011, 09:22 PM
Thanks for comments guys....


Physqiue looks incredible, especially the legs. Just a few questions as I'm a similar height and weight to what you were before the cut. What's your arm size? And, as a tall fella, what exercise has worked best for your quads?

My arms measure around 17 but havent measured in awhile. They're small... As for my quads, I stick to heavy squats. Right now the only exercises I've been doing are back sqauts and front squats for quads, as heavy as I can.


Just an update here. Things are getting rough. Working slave hours and lifting/cardio is killing me. Not only phyiscally, but mentally and emotionally. I'm a walking zombie. I fell into a depressed state last week- no motivation, moody as all hell, lethargic, didnt want to get out of bed. Just standing up and my legs would feel weak... So what did I do? I snapped and had a 24 hour binge session. Cookies, cakes, desserts, pop tarts, burgers, fries, half gallon of chocolate milk, half gallon of milk with cereal, cinnamon roles, ice cream, my mom's home made cherry pie, a pizza, etc. I'm talking 10K + cals of basically pure sugar. I gained about 15 lbs. I felt amazing, I felt happy again, mood was great, workouts were awesome for the next 2 days...

Fast forward a few days and its back to hell. I've lost all the weight and have leaned up more. But I feel horrible. And its not like I'm even close to show ready. I have a ton of fat on my stomach and lower back to lose yet... I cant imagine how I'm going to feel at about 4 percent bf...

I feel like a whiney little girl right now but man... Luckily I got my lifting taken care of this morning, I just got off work from a 12 hour shift and now I have a hour of cardio to do, sleep, then back at it. It just never ends...

One positive note, I have jackass 3 on dvd to watch while i bust out this cardio. Hopefully it will lighten my mood some :)

One last thing, I give the natty guys all the props in the world... Getting stage lean with basically no help at all? Man, you guys are the most hardcore of them all...

Anyway, so far this is the realities of my bodybuilding experience. Hopefully things pick up soon. Alex says he gets a boost about 4 weeks out. No idea where the **** a boost will be coming from but at-least I can have a little hope it MIGHT get better.

Behemoth
03-10-2011, 05:18 AM
/can relate.

Bet you looked pretty stellar 6 hours into that bingefest!

Time+Patience
03-18-2011, 10:28 AM
I snapped and had a 24 hour binge session. Cookies, cakes, desserts, pop tarts, burgers, fries, half gallon of chocolate milk, half gallon of milk with cereal, cinnamon roles, ice cream, my mom's home made cherry pie, a pizza, etc. I'm talking 10K + cals of basically pure sugar. I gained about 15 lbs. I felt amazing, I felt happy again, mood was great, workouts were awesome for the next 2 days...

Talk about a binge, LOL! I just kept reading and reading through the list of foods. That sounded delicious.

What are your macro's and calories at right now? And your cardio per day/week?

At least you are getting closer and closer to the contest. I had days where I felt very lethargic and definitely know the feeling of being physically drained.

Have you thought of increasing calories a bit throughout the week? Maybe 1 day a week, refeeds or any of that?