PDA

View Full Version : Increased protein



Off Road
01-05-2011, 04:39 PM
Has anybody noticed increased gains by upping their protein intake to large ammounts? Like 300-400 grams a day? Good idea or bad?

dechrist
01-05-2011, 04:57 PM
Since i've upped my protein amounts i've noticed higher energy levels and a bit more size. I say good idea but you may be able to get away with eating your desired bodyweight in protein or something to that effect

Iplan
01-05-2011, 06:04 PM
If I consumed 300g or protein a day, I'd never leave the bathroom...... just sayin....

StLRPh
01-05-2011, 06:35 PM
Make sure its high quality protein (I'm sure Nitrean would fit the bill). I did 300+ for a month or so, GOMAD + as much food as I could handle. I gained 15lbs but then again I was very new to everything and eating more than everyone else in my family combined :)

Might want to check out the diet associated with DC training. It's super high protein. May get more info by adding Dave Palumbo's name to the search string.

4g64fiero
01-05-2011, 07:03 PM
I did not. Since then, I have stuck with around 200 grams per day from chicken/beef/milk/eggs and have had a much happier digestive track.

Clone
01-06-2011, 04:56 AM
I tried it in the past and didn't notice anything positive.

For a few months I took in more than 2g of protein per lb of bodyweight. Just as an experiment.

I weighed 180 and made sure I got over 360g protein a day. Other than feeling like crap and bloated, I got no positive gains from it.

I was rather surprised.

Off Road
01-06-2011, 07:05 AM
Thanks. I'd always wondered if it made a difference. I've read accounts where people have said great things about it, but thought I'd check with you guys since you will deal it straight.

Iplan
01-06-2011, 08:38 AM
[QUOTE=StLRPh;2419462]Make sure its high quality protein (I'm sure Nitrean would fit the bill). QUOTE]

That's what I was use... Nitrean.... I can only handle about 90 g (3 shakes) of protein from Nitrean per day, and that is really stretching the limits. 60 g a day (2 shakes) is comfortable, but then I'm nowhere near my target of 220 g.

IronDiggy
01-06-2011, 09:37 AM
Seeing as your body will just convert extra protein to insulin I would think the extra would go to waste. I'd say increase fats a bit and see where gains go.

J.C.
01-06-2011, 11:05 AM
Vincent asked this a while back and Chris responded with something clever about carbohydrates and hormone manipulation. I'll see if I can go find it... The gist of it was no, don't bother, but try and get more food into fewer meals to reap more rewards from the insulin response. So more protein synthesis, not more protein. Something like that.

On the other hand, I know Bill Kazmaier ate over 400g protein a day and it obviously helped him. But he was the Kaz...

JeffreyXL
01-06-2011, 12:10 PM
Protein a heavy debated subject! Research has pointed out that megadosing protein wont give you better results. (I'm talking about naturals)


1: J Sports Sci. 2004 Jan;22(1):65-79.Links
Protein and amino acids for athletes.Tipton KD, Wolfe RR.
Department of Surgery, University of Texas Medical Branch, Shriner's Hospital for Children, 815 Market Street, Galveston, TX 77550, USA. ktipton@utmb.edu

The main determinants of an athlete's protein needs are their training regime and habitual nutrient intake. Most athletes ingest sufficient protein in their habitual diet. Additional protein will confer only a minimal, albeit arguably important, additional advantage. Given sufficient energy intake, lean body mass can be maintained within a wide range of protein intakes. Since there is limited evidence for harmful effects of a high protein intake and there is a metabolic rationale for the efficacy of an increase in protein, if muscle hypertrophy is the goal, a higher protein intake within the context of an athlete's overall dietary requirements may be beneficial. However, there are few convincing outcome data to indicate that the ingestion of a high amount of protein (2-3 g x kg(-1) BW x day(-1), where BW = body weight) is necessary. Current literature suggests that it may be too simplistic to rely on recommendations of a particular amount of protein per day. Acute studies suggest that for any given amount of protein, the metabolic response is dependent on other factors, including the timing of ingestion in relation to exercise and/or other nutrients, the composition of ingested amino acids and the type of protein.

PMID: 14971434 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

When we look for nitrogen balance in urine (since protein consist lots of nitrogen) we see that the highest amount of protein recommanded is by a guy named Lemon. Lemon adviced 1.6-1.8g/kg. For more info about this check out: http://www.jacn.org/cgi/content/full/19/suppl_5/513S

My bet is that when regular gym rats go into a gym and get first introduced to something like the DC protocol (which advise hyooge protein amounts) he starts to eat lots of protein for the first time. the question is, does he get bigger it because of the protein or because of the extra amount of cals he get? for example 150gr of protein will get you around 600 cals extra, that along with some fat from the meat he is eating we get a totall of 800-1000 cals extra on his regular diet which could cause growth as well.

IronDiggy
01-06-2011, 12:13 PM
My bet is that when regular gym rats go into a gym and get first introduced to something like the DC protocol (which advise hyooge protein amounts) he starts to eat lots of protein for the first time. the question is, does he get bigger it because of the protein or because of the extra amount of cals he get? for example 150gr of protein will get you around 600 cals extra, that along with some fat from the meat he is eating we get a totall of 800-1000 cals extra on his regular diet which could cause growth as well.

Don't forget a lot of it will be red meat which provides many benefits to growth as well.

Dan Fanelli
01-06-2011, 12:16 PM
I believe that if you are bulking, and in a calorie balance with a decent amount of carbs, then going over 1-1.5 g/lb of lean mass isn't going to make much difference. But if you are cutting and lowering carbs, then upping it a bit might help. But even then it would just be a bit more.

Behemoth
01-06-2011, 12:30 PM
Vincent asked this a while back and Chris responded with something clever about carbohydrates and hormone manipulation. I'll see if I can go find it... The gist of it was no, don't bother, but try and get more food into fewer meals to reap more rewards from the insulin response. So more protein synthesis, not more protein. Something like that.

On the other hand, I know Bill Kazmaier ate over 400g protein a day and it obviously helped him. But he was the Kaz...

Different people can utilize different amounts. Just because Kazmaier ate 400g and was big doesn't mean 400g of protein was the cause. That's just correlation without causation. However people with good genetics and on gear will make use of more protein.

Behemoth
01-06-2011, 12:40 PM
Seeing as your body will just convert extra protein to insulin
No


I'd say increase fats a bit and see where gains go.
No.

Raleighwood
01-06-2011, 01:38 PM
Protein does trigger an insulin release, but it is not converted to insulin by the body. This isn't a bad thing.

If your body needs glucose (aka sugar/carbs) it will convert amino acids (protein) through a process dubbed gluconeogenesis. This can come from muscle protein or dietary protein. That is why you need higher protein during a cut, more than any other time.

Protein will seldom be converted to body fat. What will happen if you are consuming large amounts is that your body's metabolism will shift away from burning fat to burning protein. This isn't a bad thing.

If you are fulfilling your body's recovery requirements, I don't see the need to megadose protein. You'd have to be eating ridiculous amounts of meat or protein powder to hit 300-400g of protein.

Behemoth
01-06-2011, 02:20 PM
If your body needs glucose (aka sugar/carbs) it will convert amino acids (protein) through a process dubbed gluconeogenesis. This can come from muscle protein or dietary protein. That is why you need higher protein during a cut, more than any other time.


Thats backwards. Thats why carbs are important during a cut. They're the more efficient fuel beyond your basal needs for protein and fat.

chevelle2291
01-06-2011, 02:32 PM
Has anybody noticed increased gains by upping their protein intake to large ammounts? Like 300-400 grams a day? Good idea or bad?

I've had stretches of time (couple of months) where I've been in the mid-high 300s for protein. I noticed a difference. I felt more recovered after workouts and felt like I gained weight/size easier. How much of that is pschological? Who knows.

I'm definitely in the "more is better up to a certain point" camp when it comes to protein, however.

Lately, what I've been doing is setting myself a certain number of protein shakes to have for the day. Usually I use about 6 servings of protein powder, which equals about 140g of protein or so for the day from shakes alone. I do this so that, no matter what happens with regards to food, I know I'll have at least 140g of protein for the day. After a full day's eating, I'm probably in the low-mid 200s for protein intake.

If I were to re-incorporate skim milk, however, I'd be in the mid- to high-300s easily. Lactose intolerance sucks. :(

Dan Fanelli
01-06-2011, 02:52 PM
Thats backwards. Thats why carbs are important during a cut. They're the more efficient fuel beyond your basal needs for protein and fat.

Wow, deja vu. Here we go again.

Behemoth
01-06-2011, 03:20 PM
Wow, deja vu. Here we go again.

*Sigh*
I know...:(

IronDiggy
01-06-2011, 03:45 PM
Thats backwards. Thats why carbs are important during a cut. They're the more efficient fuel beyond your basal needs for protein and fat.

Sooo what you're saying is, if your body needs protein it will convert carbs into amino acids?

Behemoth
01-06-2011, 04:05 PM
Sooo what you're saying is, if your body needs protein it will convert carbs into amino acids?

No! That's not what I said! I said to give your body the protein it needs. After that, if glucose is optimally used for fuel (it is) then give it carbs! Why would you make it go through gluconeogenesis to attain what it could simply be given (damn near) directly?

Lets look at this again...

Raleighwood said:


If your body needs glucose (aka sugar/carbs) it will convert amino acids (protein) through a process dubbed gluconeogenesis. This can come from muscle protein or dietary protein. That is why you need higher protein during a cut, more than any other time.


I said:


Thats backwards. Thats why carbs are important during a cut. They're the more efficient fuel beyond your basal needs for protein and fat.

I feel like I'm treading water with cinder blocks tied to my feet sometimes...

Dan Fanelli
01-06-2011, 04:40 PM
I dont want to get this argument going again, because we already agreed to disagree, and I dont think either one of us is necessarily wrong; or right. And im far from an expert on nutrtition, but here is how I see it.

The argument for Carbs during cutting - The benefit here would not be from carbs being converted to amino acids, but instead protein sparing effects of carbs. Like Behemoth said, why make your body create glucose, when it can be obtained from a more direct route by ingesting it. Other hormonal factors affected by the ingestion of carbs would be of benefit as well.

The argument against carbs during cutting - Ingestion of carbs is linked to insulin. While this will help with maintaining muscle, it will also hurt fat loss. Carbs are not an essential nutrient and glucose can be created by the body. Thus you can keep insulin levels suppressed to maximize fat burning, and your body will still replenish glycogen.

The argument for increased protein - Protein intake is directly linked to protein synthesis and protein degredation. In a caloric deficit, (especially with lower carbs) protein degredation will be higher, and it will take larger amounts of protein to maintain protein synthesis. Also, taking in too much protein is less likely to be detremental to fat loss than taking in too much carbs.

If you look at whats bolded that should clear up the argument. If you are in a deficit and lower carbs, then you NEED to make sure you are getting sufficient protein, and probably take in extra just in case.

If you are in a deficit but keep carbs higher, then protein will not need to be as high.

Carb allowance during a cut will be affected a lot by genetics and carb tolerance. There are some people that will not lose mainly fat during a cut with higher carbs. If they are losing weight, but not losing mainly fat, then they'll be losing muscle.

On the other hand, there are people that handle carbs well, and can still lose mainly fat while still ingesting carbs.

IronDiggy
01-06-2011, 05:11 PM
No! That's not what I said! I said to give your body the protein it needs. After that, if glucose is optimally used for fuel (it is) then give it carbs! Why would you make it go through gluconeogenesis to attain what it could simply be given (damn near) directly?

Lets look at this again...

Raleighwood said:



I said:



I feel like I'm treading water with cinder blocks tied to my feet sometimes...

Well that makes sense, you should offer a little more insight to your reasoning. We weren't arguing that carbs aren't better for fueling your muscles than protein. We are saying your body will turn excess protein through this "gluconeogenesis". In the end we came to the same point that excess protein is kinda pointless.

Off Road
01-06-2011, 05:50 PM
I feel like I'm treading water with cinder blocks tied to my feet sometimes...
Haha...I know what you mean. Same feeling - different thread :)

Songsangnim
01-06-2011, 06:44 PM
I'm not going to get into this argument about protein (see what Mr. Behemoth said about cinder blocks and I'm off to the Philippines tomorrow anyway) but I will say two things.

In my experience upping protein (over 200 grams per day) resulted in more digestive problems.


If you are going to up your protein intake significantly be sure to up your water intake as well to reduce the risk of kidney stones. And you might want to look into taking a calcium supplement as well.

And that is all.

Raleighwood
01-07-2011, 05:39 AM
Thats backwards. Thats why carbs are important during a cut. They're the more efficient fuel beyond your basal needs for protein and fat.

Your body is going to require glucose, and make it, whenever it's in an energy deficit. And one of the first place it's going to tap is muscle protein (when in a deficit.)

Glucose is the more efficient fuel and that's why it's preferred by your body. Your body also prefers to be fat and is going to trigger a plethora of hormones to compel you to eat and crave sugar.

If what you say is true, and that carbs are more important than protein, how do you explain the effectiveness of ketogenic diets? Especially cyclical ketogenic diets.

Carbs can be useful for glycogen replenishment and staving off hunger (fructose is good for this). But it needs to be strategic and under the preface of a calorie deficit.

The bottom line is, IMO, that protein is far more important than carbs during a cut. Beyond setting your protein requirements, your essential fat intake, the rest is really personal preference. As long as you are in a deficit you will lose weight.

Edit: I read threw your posts a little more closely and can find a part to agree on...

Yes, if you can dial in your carb intake, while maintaining the deficit, you can spare performance and lean mass more effectively.

However, dialing it in will add another level of complexity and may be very challenging for some people.

To meet in the middle... a good swipe of carbs, from a nutrient-fiber rich source, post-work out should do the trick. E.G. A sweet potato with some steak.

J.C.
01-07-2011, 05:49 AM
Different people can utilize different amounts. Just because Kazmaier ate 400g and was big doesn't mean 400g of protein was the cause. That's just correlation without causation. However people with good genetics and on gear will make use of more protein.

I feel like you latched onto the insignificant part of my post. I don't know where Vincent's post I'm thinking of is - so ignoring strongman legends with incredibly high protein intakes - here is the article in which Chris further explains the theory:

http://www.wannabebig.com/diet-and-nutrition/eating-optimally-for-massive-size-and-strength/

This is beyond my scope, but I think the point is that if you're eating for size you might be better off getting the most out of your insulin spikes via increased, well-placed carbohydrates, instead of just increasing protein. It also seems slightly healthier to keep protein to sensible levels and limit the insulin spikes. The thing which is not specifically mentioned in that article but was in the post, is that this is a more effective route than just consuming more protein.

Kiff
01-07-2011, 06:19 AM
I drink 4 pints of milk a day most days, along with at least one shake and a steak at least once a day. Normally i tip the 300 mark. I prefer to eat that kind of stuff than carbs or fat, just my preference, i get bloated very quickly on any form of carbs just me i guess...

jstarcarr
01-07-2011, 07:25 AM
If on high levels of gh your body can take alot more protein circa 30% more

Behemoth
01-07-2011, 09:15 AM
This is really simple. One that I've stated "beyond your basal needs for protein" and two apparently we're talking out of context for non lifting individuals.

Yes, the first and most important thing to allott in your diet is protein, along with fat. After that carbs are filler, I do agree. My point I'm making is that once a training individual meets his protein needs, carbs are then more muscle sparing and more fuel efficient. I do not contest in anyway that low carb or ketogenic dieting is not extremely effective for fatloss, but it's extremely ineffective for performance (for nearly all). Again, I'm stating that carbs are a more efficient source of energy and more muscle sparing beyond meeting your protein needs. If one is consuming insufficient protein, the presence of carbs are still muscle sparing, but protein is more important at this time yes.

Is ketogenic dieting faster? Most likely. Is it riskier? Hell yes. Is it worth the lack of performance for a hard training individual? Well I guess that's individual.

I've dieted in many, many fashons. Never completely ketogenic but I have gone very low carb (50g daily). To date, my most successful diet was last years where I got the leanest to date (6.5%) with seemingly all my muscle preserved. This diet was my first one that started high carb (270g/day 45% of my cals) and in the final stages was rotating 225/175/125 with still a 600g refeed every 7 days, and I'm pretty insulin resistant folks. In theory - I probably could have attainedmy final weight a week or two earlier dropping some additional calories from carbs and replacing them with equivalent protein, sure. But in reality, it never happened in years before going much lower in carbs at times (remember, I had done such diets before [higher protein, less carbs]). The fact of the matter is beyond my necessary protein, the carbs kept my metabolism up, my energy up (though it was still in the ****ter, but it did longer than protein would have), and saved seemingly all my muscle (while never going over 220g protein/day!). But everybody around in here wants to dismiss carbs for dieting, can't get over their fear of insulin (laugh), and somehow thinks that speed = efficiency. For a bodybuilder, efficiency is doing it at the fastest rate while preserving as much muscle as concerivably possible. If you just want to lose quick weight, don't eat. That's even quicker than your favored low carb/high protein diets, but it's not more efficient. The most efficient will (most of the time) be for the individual to find the largest amount of carbs he can continue to lose bodyfat on, and stick with those high carbs for as long as possible. Drop them when he/she has to, but the longer you can keep them present, the longer you'll train better, think better, spare more muscle, and have a weapon to strike you really need to. You can lose fat in the presence of insulin all day. Do so for as long as possible and when you've stalled you're sitting pretty because you still have room to lower your carbs when you actually need to.

Daniel Roberts
01-07-2011, 10:05 AM
Well said Behemoth (again!).

Behemoth
01-07-2011, 10:11 AM
Well said Behemoth (again!).

Thank God, some accredited support around here! Thanks Daniel.

Kiff
01-07-2011, 10:21 AM
Well said Behemoth (again!).

Second that.



when you've stalled you're sitting pretty because you still have room to lower your carbs when you actually need to.

Guess that is the crucial one right Rory? No point loosing weight and dropping off the radar in terms of strength and energy when it does not need to be like that.

Your reply was less geared towards losing weight quickly but more loosing weight with purpose?

Raleighwood
01-07-2011, 10:24 AM
This is really simple. One that I've stated "beyond your basal needs for protein" and two apparently we're talking out of context for non lifting individuals.

Yes, the first and most important thing to allott in your diet is protein, along with fat. After that carbs are filler, I do agree. My point I'm making is that once a training individual meets his protein needs, carbs are then more muscle sparing and more fuel efficient. I do not contest in anyway that low carb or ketogenic dieting is not extremely effective for fatloss, but it's extremely ineffective for performance (for nearly all). Again, I'm stating that carbs are a more efficient source of energy and more muscle sparing beyond meeting your protein needs. If one is consuming insufficient protein, the presence of carbs are still muscle sparing, but protein is more important at this time yes.

Is ketogenic dieting faster? Most likely. Is it riskier? Hell yes. Is it worth the lack of performance for a hard training individual? Well I guess that's individual.

I've dieted in many, many fashons. Never completely ketogenic but I have gone very low carb (50g daily). To date, my most successful diet was last years where I got the leanest to date (6.5%) with seemingly all my muscle preserved. This diet was my first one that started high carb (270g/day 45% of my cals) and in the final stages was rotating 225/175/125 with still a 600g refeed every 7 days, and I'm pretty insulin resistant folks. In theory - I probably could have attainedmy final weight a week or two earlier dropping some additional calories from carbs and replacing them with equivalent protein, sure. But in reality, it never happened in years before going much lower in carbs at times (remember, I had done such diets before [higher protein, less carbs]). The fact of the matter is beyond my necessary protein, the carbs kept my metabolism up, my energy up (though it was still in the ****ter, but it did longer than protein would have), and saved seemingly all my muscle (while never going over 220g protein/day!). But everybody around in here wants to dismiss carbs for dieting, can't get over their fear of insulin (laugh), and somehow thinks that speed = efficiency. For a bodybuilder, efficiency is doing it at the fastest rate while preserving as much muscle as concerivably possible. If you just want to lose quick weight, don't eat. That's even quicker than your favored low carb/high protein diets, but it's not more efficient. The most efficient will (most of the time) be for the individual to find the largest amount of carbs he can continue to lose bodyfat on, and stick with those high carbs for as long as possible. Drop them when he/she has to, but the longer you can keep them present, the longer you'll train better, think better, spare more muscle, and have a weapon to strike you really need to. You can lose fat in the presence of insulin all day. Do so for as long as possible and when you've stalled you're sitting pretty because you still have room to lower your carbs when you actually need to.

I agree with this.

I'll go out on a limb and say that it's going to vary person to person on their optimal carb/fat ratio. Obviously you've had a significant amount of experience and have successfully dialed yourself in.

Personally, I like the relaxed carb/fat cycling combined with intermittent fasting (pretty much Martin Berkhen's Leang Gains style). While I don't totally fast for 16 hours, delaying the majority of my feeding until post work out seems pretty effective. With that I also rotate higher carb on training days, lower carb on off days. All I do is count protein, eat by hunger and track my weekly bodyweight.

While I'm not a competitive body builder nor powerlifter, nor care to be one, this method seems to be keeping me from bulking up too much and now that I've begun peaking my strength again, my performance seems to do well with this too.

(If you noticed that it says I edited your post, I accidentally hit the edit button, instead of quote. My bad)

superdonut
01-07-2011, 03:12 PM
I've noticed an increase in strength and energy in the gym since I've been getting in 300g or more of protein a day. But I'am eating more food in general now than I have before.

Time+Patience
01-09-2011, 08:24 AM
I've dieted in many, many fashons. Never completely ketogenic but I have gone very low carb (50g daily). To date, my most successful diet was last years where I got the leanest to date (6.5%) with seemingly all my muscle preserved. This diet was my first one that started high carb (270g/day 45% of my cals) and in the final stages was rotating 225/175/125 with still a 600g refeed every 7 days

I've had a similar experience with my dieting compared to this post (solid post as a whole BTW).

Over the span of April 2009-March 2010 I did 2 types of diets. I started in April 2009 at a BW of 220 or so and dieted down to 175 on a low-carb keot type of diet, then Jan 2010 I started at a BW of 195 and dieted down to 170 by March 2010 on a low-fat moderate-carb diet.

Now I'm not a very scientific guy on the matters of how things are digested and what works optimally for people, because simply put everyone IS DIFFERENT and there is not one set way of optimal dieting for everyone.

I found that when I did keto I dropped weight EXTREMELY FAST, but I did lose a good deal of muscle. While dieting low-fat and moderate-carb I dropped the weight, but not nearly as fast, but I preserved more muscle through time.

I personally find that carbs are my best friend with regards to dieting and bulking. I'm starting my second contest-prep again and I'll be doing moderate-carbs with low-fat again. I may tweak things throughout and follow what Behemoth outlined (alternating carb amounts) later on, but I won't restrict them as I feel they are vital for MY BODY.

ORIGINAL POST: to get back to OffRoad's question at hand. I noticed by best gains by upping my carb and protein intake together. I was following the DC routine and decided to actually bulk up and add some weight. I was making sure I was exceeding 350 grams or protein (Closer to 2 times my BW) totaling 1,400 calories, and my carbs were over 500 grams (2.5 times my BW) totaling 2,000 calories, with workout days at a much higher amount. I was going for 4,000+ calories, and between those 2 macro's I was getting in 3,400 calories, while filling in the rest with fat approximately 100 grams.

I think the biggest predicator with macro's and even strength is going by a ratio regarding your BW, not an arbitrary number. I don't believe that a 150 pounder and a 250 pounder should ever take in the same amount of protein or carbs, or calories for that matter. They should find the appropriate ratio for their BW and go from there.

I think that taking in a protein amount that is 1.5 times your BW is an ideal # for bulking purposes and that carbs could be taken up to 2-2.5 times your BW. Of course all #'s can be changed and I'm using my personal experience. Taking what Behemoth discussed about carbs and protein I think they're both necessary for bulking or dieting and you adjust the total #'s to fit your goals.

Damn I'm so un-scientific with my dieting, I feel like a 3rd grader coming into some of these threads.

I do approach things as a Math teacher though, I'm all about percentages, that's the best indicator of getting accurate #'s and ratios IMO.

Time+Patience
01-09-2011, 08:30 AM
Personally, I like the relaxed carb/fat cycling combined with intermittent fasting (pretty much Martin Berkhen's Leang Gains style). While I don't totally fast for 16 hours, delaying the majority of my feeding until post work out seems pretty effective. With that I also rotate higher carb on training days, lower carb on off days. All I do is count protein, eat by hunger and track my weekly bodyweight.

I'm definitely a fan of this type of mentality when it comes to dieting and bulking for that matter. It's imperative to listen to your body, and I've done the route where I try to take in a larger amount of my diet post workout. It does make sense to nourish your body at certain times, and post-workout is important.

Rotating carbs is beneficial, but I've tried to experiment to where I have more days of high-carbs and higher-calories when bulking than low-carb days. Rather than exclusively having high-carbs on workout days and low-carbs on off days, I'll go with the majority of my days with higher carbs. Like a 5 days a week with higher carbs and 2 days lower carbs and lower calories.

I'm trying to come to a new evaluation of how total calories can be influenced over certain time periods. Some people argue the calories-in and calories-out per day, some do it per week, but what's the optimal time period to where calories-in and calories-out recycle with regards to muscle gain or fat loss.

It's hard to follow what I might be saying, but once I know more with what I'm doing I'll put it into words, haha, it might make sense, but maybe it won't. That's for a later date.

Off Road
01-09-2011, 08:33 AM
This thread really took off and I am learning a lot from it.
T&P just touched on this a bit; Do you think the bigger you are (LBM), the higher your percentage of protein intake should be?

Kiff
01-09-2011, 10:09 AM
This thread really took off and I am learning a lot from it.
T&P just touched on this a bit; Do you think the bigger you are (LBM), the higher your percentage of protein intake should be?

Shouldnt it increase in direct proportion? Surely to maintain that level of LBM @ 200LBS you would need the same PERCENTAGE as you would having 150LBS of LBM?

Would be interesting to see Rory or someone like that pipe in!

Behemoth
01-09-2011, 10:29 AM
This thread really took off and I am learning a lot from it.
T&P just touched on this a bit; Do you think the bigger you are (LBM), the higher your percentage of protein intake should be?

I don't see why the percentage to LBM would change. An answer might lie in what percentage an individuals glycogen capacity goes up with each dry pound of muscle gained. Meaning if a pound of muscle could store more grams in glycogen than the trainee had dialed in as grams of protein per pound of LBM, then the percentage would likely actually go down IMO. Which I'm guessing is likely the case.

So I'm speculating that a pound of dry muscle can store more grams of glycogen than the average 1 to 1.5g of protein that most people need to match this one pound gain.

Ansel
01-10-2011, 12:18 AM
Has anybody noticed increased gains by upping their protein intake to large ammounts? Like 300-400 grams a day? Good idea or bad?

Amino acid is the essential element of our diet.The protein is a rich source to get these amino acids.Protein are the organic compounds made of amino acid.Yes i have noticed it by taking it in large counts but not up to the amount that you mention.It is a good idea to have 300-400 grams a day.