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Spiderfx
01-19-2011, 07:09 PM
Theres so much info on here, its really hard to digest (pun intended ;) all the info and make sense of it!
Im beginning starting strength and will obviously be bulking to get the best results.

Im 6'2" 280lbs and not fully sure on my body fat % but i dont really care at this stage to loose or gain it. Am i right in thinking my maintenance is roughly 3,700 calories, and therefore i need to be eating around 4,200 calories a day, with 30% fat/ 30% carbs/ 40% protein?

Obviously, the last thing i want to do is put out maximum effort lifting, and then destroy most of it with what i eat. And, aslong as i eat things like fish, veg, eggs, chicken, lean meat etc ill be on the right track for eating good foods? The last thing is, it seems quite pricey eating all the better foods, or is it just that i havent looked properly?

Thanks in advance, really wouldnt know where to start without you guys!

Dan Fanelli
01-19-2011, 08:22 PM
You probably don't need to he bulking on starting strength at 280lbs. What's your goal weight?

Probably better off just eating a bit better and following the program.

tom183
01-19-2011, 09:59 PM
Am i right in thinking my maintenance is roughly 3,700 calories

Possibly. How did you estimate 3,700?


i need to be eating around 4,200 calories a day

If you're looking to gain, +500 calories a day will definitely get you there. Like the above poster, I'm curious what your goal weight is though.

Spiderfx
01-20-2011, 04:38 AM
I suppose I've not really thought about that, I'm just set on progressing well. It's certainly more complicated than I thought, lots to learn eh.

JeffreyXL
01-20-2011, 08:19 AM
I suppose I've not really thought about that, I'm just set on progressing well. It's certainly more complicated than I thought, lots to learn eh.

Its not all that complicated. Most important thing to remember is if you want to gain weight eat more than you use, if you want to lose weight eat less than you use. Make sure you get enough proteins and you'll be fine at this level. Dont make the same mistake I did by overthinking everything while losing the big picture. Keep it simpel!

Spiderfx
01-20-2011, 09:41 AM
I spose though, im only 22, so i should set realistic goals. SO maybe if i do the complexes for fat loss first, then when i drop the body fat down i can then look into serious bulking? Or could i do the Starting Strength routine, the complexes for fat loss on my off days? But then ive read you cant drop the body fat % while increasing strength at the best rate? Maybe i am over complicating things in my head ha!

Dan Fanelli
01-20-2011, 09:49 AM
Yes, you are overthinking things. Starting strength is the most basic of programs. Usually it is done with a bulking diet, but it is also usually done by 16 year old guys that weigh 135lbs. At your weight you don't need to bulk. You need to eat better.

Do SS, don't do the complexes. Eat good, and get stronger. Eventually you'll hit a plateue and need to make a change. It may be diet, it may be training.

But at your weight, it's reasonable to cut on SS and still get much stronger, unless you are very strong, in which case you wouldn't be doing SS

Spiderfx
01-20-2011, 10:38 AM
Right now its making sense! So eat good, at my weight what is eating good to drop body fat and gain strength? Nearly there now haha thanks

Dan Fanelli
01-20-2011, 10:50 AM
Right now its making sense! So eat good, at my weight what is eating good to drop body fat and gain strength? Nearly there now haha thanks

Eat less "junk" and eat more meat and vegetables. Are you trying to stay the same weight, or lose?

Spiderfx
01-20-2011, 10:55 AM
Ideally I obviously want the strength gains from SS and to loose the fat. But I guess I'd like to drop the fat because afterall, I'm 22 with many years to lift so I might aswell be in reasonable body fat % range when I start

Off Road
01-20-2011, 01:23 PM
This is what you should do...

1. clean up your diet, start slowly and make it a habit to eat well.
2. start a good stretching program and make it a habit every day.
3. start a conditioning program, start easy (walking or ?) and increase it over the next few months.
4. start the Starting Strength routine, don't add weight, just work on perfect form on every lift.
5. do the above for the next three months, drop some body fat, get into condition, and learn the lifts.
6. after a few months of the above, start adding weight slowly to the lifts and keep going for the next year or so...

You can adjust your diet to increase weights and body size as needed.

greemah
01-20-2011, 01:36 PM
If you are new to lifting then you gain muscle very fast when you start, even without the best diet (though better diet obviously gives better gains). A mistake I made was cutting to lose fat when I first started lifting weights, so I gained some muscle but not much due to the fact that I was cutting.

If I could do it over again, and maybe the best option for you, would be just sort out your diet and maybe do cardio in order to lose the fat first, and then start weight lifting on a bulking diet, that would be the best option if you are looking to build muscle

Spiderfx
01-20-2011, 01:45 PM
This is what you should do...

1. clean up your diet, start slowly and make it a habit to eat well.
2. start a good stretching program and make it a habit every day.
3. start a conditioning program, start easy (walking or ?) and increase it over the next few months.
4. start the Starting Strength routine, don't add weight, just work on perfect form on every lift.
5. do the above for the next three months, drop some body fat, get into condition, and learn the lifts.
6. after a few months of the above, start adding weight slowly to the lifts and keep going for the next year or so...

You can adjust your diet to increase weights and body size as needed.

Fantastic! Thankyou very much, I can't tell you how much I appreciate this. Only thing then is what calorie intake a day should I be looking at aiming for?

Dan Fanelli
01-20-2011, 01:48 PM
Too many mixed messages going on here. You might be better off going over to the SS forum and asking those guys what to do.

But either way, it is a good idea to know your current weight/bf, and your goal weight/bf , as well as your training background.

But some of these recommendations here are way too general without more information (no offense to the other posters)

Spiderfx
01-20-2011, 02:58 PM
Ok, so my current weight is 280lbs 26% bodyfat (oh dear lord :( ) I would love to drop the bf % to around 10-15% at least, and would like to loose at least 40lbs. The thing is, this is quite evidently all new to me, so whether that is realistic or not i don't know. But well i have to start somewhere. While i was at uni, i trained with some power lifters for a while but i really cannot remember what i was lifting because that was a fair while ago, but it only lasted a couple of months at most.

Thanks guys :)

tom183
01-20-2011, 03:09 PM
^--Eh? Last time I posted in this thread you were bulking, lol.

Anyways, for a guy of your weight, to lose 40 pounds and reduce bodyfat by ~10% is definitely achievable.


Only thing then is what calorie intake a day should I be looking at aiming for?

We'd only be guessing. The best way is to track your calories to determine your maintenance level. Subtract about 10% from that and eat that amount till it stops working.

Spiderfx
01-20-2011, 03:15 PM
I know, but reading around some more, and getting even more info. If i were to bulk now, following what it says in the SS FAQ, i would just essentially get even fatter. Then i was thinking, im only 22 years of age, ive got **** loads of time to sort my body fat % out before i bulk, at least when i bulk i will be in better shape and have a better physique. I read the FAQ on SS and it said its best to bulk, but then someone said thats basic guidelines for a 16 year old who weights 135lbs so its different for me considering my weight and stuff.

Pain in the arse im sorry ha, but im definitely getting somewhere to a complete lifestyle change, which i cannot thank you guys enough for! So now i know that loosing 40 pounds and ~10% bf is achievable, then i will make that a goal, while doing SS to get good form going on before i start to increase what i lift to bulk so i get maximum gains. Its certainly not as complicated now as i first though.

Dan Fanelli
01-20-2011, 03:40 PM
NOT SO FAST!

The 40lbs and 10% BF is just an abitrary number. We still know very little about you.

If you are 280lbs and 12%, then you aren't going to lose 40lbs and 10% BF.

But if you are 280lbs and close to 20-30%, then this is very possible.

Also, if you have been eating like crap, and are sedentary, then you can expect some pretty good progress. If you already eat very "clean" and have been training hard, then you cant expect such good progress.

That covers the body composition expectations. As for strength.


If you are more or less "untrained", then you can expect rapid strength improvements (regardless of diet). You could likely lose 1-2 lbs per week and still progress rapidly in strength.

On the otherhand, if you've been training hard and are getting closer to your genetic potential, then you'd expect to LOSE some strength as you lose weight.


Lastly, if you have a pretty clear goal in mind, you can get a good idea of how much you should eat.
http://www.wannabebig.com/diet-and-nutrition/to-bulk-or-to-cut-that-is-the-question-or-is-it/
It might be an estimate, but it will give you a good idea of how you should start eating to approach your goal. Otherwise, if you dont have a clear goal, then the simple answer would be to eat less and eat "better".

A picture, or waist measurement would help a lot, as well as your training experience.

Spiderfx
01-20-2011, 03:42 PM
NOT SO FAST!

The 40lbs and 10% BF is just an abitrary number. We still know very little about you.

If you are 280lbs and 12%, then you aren't going to lose 40lbs and 10% BF.

But if you are 280lbs and close to 20-30%, then this is very possible.

Also, if you have been eating like crap, and are sedentary, then you can expect some pretty good progress. If you already eat very "clean" and have been training hard, then you cant expect such good progress.

That covers the body composition expectations. As for strength.


If you are more or less "untrained", then you can expect rapid strength improvements (regardless of diet). You could likely lose 1-2 lbs per week and still progress rapidly in strength.

On the otherhand, if you've been training hard and are getting closer to your genetic potential, then you'd expect to LOSE some strength as you lose weight.


Lastly, if you have a pretty clear goal in mind, you can get a good idea of how much you should eat.
http://www.wannabebig.com/diet-and-nutrition/to-bulk-or-to-cut-that-is-the-question-or-is-it/
It might be an estimate, but it will give you a good idea of how you should start eating to approach your goal. Otherwise, if you dont have a clear goal, then the simple answer would be to eat less and eat "better".

A picture, or waist measurement would help a lot, as well as your training experience.


This was my previous post, maybe you missed it?

Ok, so my current weight is 280lbs 26% bodyfat (oh dear lord ) I would love to drop the bf % to around 10-15% at least, and would like to loose at least 40lbs. The thing is, this is quite evidently all new to me, so whether that is realistic or not i don't know. But well i have to start somewhere. While i was at uni, i trained with some power lifters for a while but i really cannot remember what i was lifting because that was a fair while ago, but it only lasted a couple of months at most.

To add:
Also i have a 2 year old daughter who runs me ragged on a daily basis so i guess thats some activity. I have been eating shed loads of junk, my last "diet, get fit" went well for a month or so and i stopped for some unknown reason and i drastically shot up in weight, gaining nearly 2 stone in a few months :(
This time however im in the indset to change my lifestyle, not just a pathetic attempt at a diet for a few months

Thanks guys

Dan Fanelli
01-20-2011, 04:02 PM
Sorry I didn't see that previous post. Ok, so you are in a good position to do what you are trying. There is ABSOLUTELY no reason in your current situation to be bulking. Its not necessary, and will only take you further from your goal.

Look at it this way. You are about 280, and 25% fat. That is 70lbs of fat. You will very likely lose 1-2lbs of fat per week, and probably build some muscle as well. Give that 3 months to start. So in three months, a reasonable goal might be to lose about 20lbs of fat. That would put you around 19% fat. From there, things might slow down, and you might need to get more dialed in, but you'll have a very good start.

NOW, forget about all of those numbers. More importantly, you need to find a program and diet that works for you and that you can stick with FOR THE REST OF YOUR LIFE. The reason I suggest this, is whats the point of going for some quick progress if you cant make it stick.

Like other posters suggested, you'll need to learn how to lift properly, as well as learn what "healthy nutrition" is. This things aren't always simple, but they are much simpler than you'd think based on all of the things you can read on the internet.

The good news is this site has a ton of great info.

But for now, all you need to worry about is:

1) Getting consistant with your training (and learn proper form)
Resistance training 3-4x per week
Cardio 1-2 x per week

2) Get consistant with your diet (80% compliance is a good place to start)
Cut down on carbs and junk (sweets, grains, breads, chips, etc.)
Increase protein (meats, lean meats, dairy, and supplementation)
Increase vegetables

3) Make it work for you. It needs to be something you enjoy and that you actually WANT to do. If you are missing workouts, or cheating too much on your diet, you need to either make a change or find more motivation.

Starting Strength is a good place to start. You can run that program for 6-12 months and get great progress in terms of body composition and strength. You'll learn the lifts, and learn a lot about yourself. From there, you'll have to move onto different programs, but the changes wont be that drastic.

Good luck. Looking forward to seeing you around the forums.

Off Road
01-20-2011, 05:18 PM
Just do what I suggested. If everybody would stop being in such a hurry and start with the guidelines that I gave, they would make faster progress and be much happier.

Don't try to figure out your eating while you are trying to build muscle, it will only slow your gains. Don't try to increase your conditioning while trying to increase strength, it will only eat into recovery. Don't try to learn proper form while pushing heavy weights, you will only get injured. All these things will serve to slow your progress once you start lifting heavy. Do what I said and in three months you will be in better shape, have less bodyfat, know how to properly perform the lifts, and the extra calories you take in will be used for groth instead of maintenance. We should all have been so smart when we started...

Dan Fanelli
01-20-2011, 06:42 PM
Just do what I suggested. If everybody would stop being in such a hurry and start with the guidelines that I gave, they would make faster progress and be much happier.

Don't try to figure out your eating while you are trying to build muscle, it will only slow your gains. Don't try to increase your conditioning while trying to increase strength, it will only eat into recovery. Don't try to learn proper form while pushing heavy weights, you will only get injured. All these things will serve to slow your progress once you start lifting heavy. Do what I said and in three months you will be in better shape, have less bodyfat, know how to properly perform the lifts, and the extra calories you take in will be used for groth instead of maintenance. We should all have been so smart when we started...

A lot of what you said isn't in line with the end results. While I dont think a new lifter should be maxing out before they learn the form, or focusing on the tiniest of nutrition details, ignorning these aspects is pointless.

He'd be just fine following SS as its supposed to be done with the exception of being in a deficit.

It is a good idea to be patient for the long run, but there is no reason to avoid results when it is not necessary.

Sean S
01-20-2011, 07:25 PM
This is what you should do...

1. clean up your diet, start slowly and make it a habit to eat well.
2. start a good stretching program and make it a habit every day.
3. start a conditioning program, start easy (walking or ?) and increase it over the next few months.
4. start the Starting Strength routine, don't add weight, just work on perfect form on every lift.
5. do the above for the next three months, drop some body fat, get into condition, and learn the lifts.
6. after a few months of the above, start adding weight slowly to the lifts and keep going for the next year or so...

You can adjust your diet to increase weights and body size as needed.

This sounds about right. You can add weight to your lifts, but you may not progress as fast as "normal" on SS. Again make sure your technique is very good before you add weight to anything. Right now you need to simply establish healthy eating habits and a regular training schedule. Once you build a basic baseline of fitness, strength, and improved body composition you can choose a specific direction you want to go. Right now just get the basics down and tweak the details later.

Off Road
01-20-2011, 08:38 PM
It is a good idea to be patient for the long run, but there is no reason to avoid results when it is not necessary.
It's all about priming yourself for results. Ask yourself what are the main causes for somebody not making good progress over a long period of time? Then see if these causes aren't lessened by a simple three months of prep work?

And if you need a list of causes for lack of progress, I'll get you started...

1. conditioning
2. recovery
3. diet
4. effort
5. injury

You could throw programming in there, but that's a non-issue since he's already picked a decent routine.

Dan Fanelli
01-20-2011, 10:33 PM
It's all about priming yourself for results. Ask yourself what are the main causes for somebody not making good progress over a long period of time? Then see if these causes aren't lessened by a simple three months of prep work?

And if you need a list of causes for lack of progress, I'll get you started...

1. conditioning
2. recovery
3. diet
4. effort
5. injury

You could throw programming in there, but that's a non-issue since he's already picked a decent routine.

Not entirely disagreeing with you, but the program is called "Starting Strength" and there is no reason why you cant address all of those things adequately and still follow the program.

Condtioning - Not needed in SS. Its untrained individuals, their warm-up and workout is their conditioning
Recovery - Its built into the program
Diet - We addressed that in this thread
Effort - He doesn't need to worry abou that yet, he just needs to do the program and see how he progresses.
Injury - Theres always a potential risk, but its usually low. If he follows the program, and the Wiki and learns the lifts correctly, he'll be fine.

There is no reason why a beginner can not train progressively on starting strength and still learn the lifts properly and safely. Its actually a really good program for that. Low volume, low reps, high frequency.

Mark!
01-21-2011, 03:44 AM
Spider seems happy with the answer OR gave, and it's a good one. SS may be the kind of program where he jumps right in feet first and go for gold! But...he's already got some time to condition, set things straight with his diet and get things moving as far as weight loss goes anyway, so in my opinion following OR's advice towards starting with FORM (because in all honesty, if you don't have form and technique you're priming for injury, plus not getting the max out of the lift as far as building the body) and fixing the diet, getting great technique, stretching (essential for recovery) and learning the ins and outs of the program and his body.

A few years back when I started SS, I went straight in while trying to lose weight and it just wasn't working. I was trying to cram knowledge about dieting, the lifts, accessory work, maintenance, recovery, and everything else I could. Setting an overall goal and shooting for that is the main thing, set one...lose or gain and set everything else up around that. If you have a goal, but don't set things up to achieve the goal, you're cheating yourself by not giving yourself the best absolute chance of success.