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Parker 1995
01-27-2011, 08:15 AM
Hey guys I am intrested in Westside im an athlete Wrestling and football. Well anyways Is there anyway I can do westside with only a dip bar a squat rack and a pull up bar, and I obviously have the Bench. Thanks for the help guys I have been looking at westside and Making the Routine is a big overwelming.

Dan Fanelli
01-27-2011, 08:35 AM
Hey guys I am intrested in Westside im an athlete Wrestling and football. Well anyways Is there anyway I can do westside with only a dip bar a squat rack and a pull up bar, and I obviously have the Bench. Thanks for the help guys I have been looking at westside and Making the Routine is a big overwelming.

Ya, that will work. Each week you'll need a different bench variation, as well as a different squat/deadlift variation. As long as you have a barbell, a squat rack, a bench, and enough weights you can do all of these.

You might be a bit limited on accessory work if you dont have any db's or machines, but you still could make it work.

joey54
01-27-2011, 08:37 AM
Dan, you train at Westside now?

joey54
01-27-2011, 08:39 AM
Op, since you are an athlete you may want to read these.

http://www.wannabebig.com/forums/showthread.php?123372-Joe-DeFranco-articles

How had you been training previously?

gmen5681
01-27-2011, 08:41 AM
go with defrancos WS4SB. it will benefit your sports and you will be able to get away with your limited equipment

Parker 1995
01-27-2011, 09:02 AM
Thanks for the help guys I have done some previous training and i forgot to mention I do own some dumbells. I jus made a ruitine could you critisise it please

ME Upper body
Bench
Barbell pushups
Db Rows( can it be one armed?)
Rear Delt Flies
Barbell Shruggs
Hammer curls

Dynamic Lower body
Vericle Jumps
Bulgarian Split Squats
Romianian Dead Lifts
Hanging Leg Raise

Repition Upper body
Bench
Chinups
Rear delt flies
Db Millitary Press
Barbell Shruggs
Barbell Curls
Thick Bar holds

Max effort Lower
Front Squat
Walking Lunges
romianain Deads
Abdominal Circuitt
hanging leg raise
v-ups
situps
knee ups

KoSh
01-27-2011, 10:18 AM
Looks like you took it right off WS4SB.

Which is a good thing.

Make sure you're doing the super sets and following the set/rep schemes DeFranco lays out.

Parker 1995
01-27-2011, 10:47 AM
Looks like you took it right off WS4SB.

Which is a good thing.

Make sure you're doing the super sets and following the set/rep schemes DeFranco lays out.

will do is there anyway I can throw in dips?

AdamBAG
01-27-2011, 10:56 AM
will do is there anyway I can throw in dips?

Sure. Dips are a great exercise.

Remember, you don't have to use every exercise every workout.

If you look at DeFranco's program I believe he includes dips/pullups quite often.

KoSh
01-27-2011, 11:05 AM
Sure. Dips are a great exercise.

Remember, you don't have to use every exercise every workout.

If you look at DeFranco's program I believe he includes dips/pullups quite often.

DeFranco gives a ton of choices for variety in his program. And really, even those can be toyed with as long as you're following the category... if he says do a unilateral leg movement you don't HAVE to do one of the ones he lists, but you really should be doing a unilateral leg movement. Tons of flexibility with WS4SB.

Parker 1995
01-27-2011, 11:06 AM
Sure. Dips are a great exercise.

Remember, you don't have to use every exercise every workout.

If you look at DeFranco's program I believe he includes dips/pullups quite often.

so I can mix them up? So lets say I do chin ups this week, I can do dips next week or how would that work?

AdamBAG
01-27-2011, 11:14 AM
so I can mix them up? So lets say I do chin ups this week, I can do dips next week or how would that work?

Sorry, I see where that was confusing.

I meant to say that you can do something like DB bench for a couple of weeks, then dips a couple of weeks etc. You would rotate exercises that generally hit the same movers. So dips and DB presses would be "push" movements that mostly hit the chest/shoulders/triceps. Rotating pullups, rows, lat pulls etc. would be "pull" movements.

Here is a link to DeFranco's program. I think all your questions will be answered here. Designed with athletes in mind.

www.yale.edu/gradrugby/WS4SB.pdf

If you are looking for a powerlifting program there are other options that follow the westside methods.

Parker 1995
01-27-2011, 11:27 AM
Thank you for the link soo Can I switch out the barbell pushups and the dips? I saw tricep death soo That works your triceps obviously so Im gussing I can work dips in with that right?

AdamBAG
01-27-2011, 11:29 AM
Thank you for the link soo Can I switch out the barbell pushups and the dips? I saw tricep death soo That works your triceps obviously so Im gussing I can work dips in with that right?

I'm sure you could do that. I don't see why not. I think he covers this sort of thing in the manual.

As Kosh was saying above, the exercises he lists are not all inclusive.

Parker 1995
01-27-2011, 11:34 AM
allright thanks guys if you wanna see how I progress in this you can check out my journal, and Im starting this Monday

Dan Fanelli
01-27-2011, 04:46 PM
That program with that amount of volume is going to require some serious calories. Make sure to read Defranco's nutrition recommendations.

Dan Fanelli
01-27-2011, 04:47 PM
Dan, you train at Westside now?

Your annoying, please go away.

NickAus
01-27-2011, 04:50 PM
Thanks for the help guys I have done some previous training and i forgot to mention I do own some dumbells. I jus made a ruitine could you critisise it please

ME Upper body
Bench
Barbell pushups
Db Rows( can it be one armed?)
Rear Delt Flies
Barbell Shruggs
Hammer curls

Dynamic Lower body
Vericle Jumps
Bulgarian Split Squats
Romianian Dead Lifts
Hanging Leg Raise

Repition Upper body
Bench
Chinups
Rear delt flies
Db Millitary Press
Barbell Shruggs
Barbell Curls
Thick Bar holds

Max effort Lower
Front Squat
Walking Lunges
romianain Deads
Abdominal Circuitt
hanging leg raise
v-ups
situps
knee ups

Are you planning on doing all this while you Wrestle?

If so it is way too much for anyone.

How will your week look as far as sports go?

Dan Fanelli
01-27-2011, 04:58 PM
Didn't realize the OP was a wreslter.

Are you willing to gain weight, and if so how much. If you are willing to eat and gain weight it could work pretty well, but if you are trying to stay in the same weight class, then that program is not going to be good.

ThomasG
01-27-2011, 05:03 PM
Dan, you train at Westside now?

Why does that matter?


OP as previously stated ws4sb is right up your alley.

Hobo Beard
01-27-2011, 07:06 PM
Hey guys I am intrested in Westside im an athlete Wrestling and football. Well anyways Is there anyway I can do westside with only a dip bar a squat rack and a pull up bar, and I obviously have the Bench. Thanks for the help guys I have been looking at westside and Making the Routine is a big overwelming.

I trained Westside when I was your age.

It's a great system, but I feel I would have benefitted from a more basic routine when I was a beginner.

I'd recommend Wendler's 5-3-1 system because it focuses on/helps you master the squat, bench press, deadlift and overhead press.

You'll need a lower volume system since you aren't lifting in gear and you also have to recover from your sports training.

Plus, Westside can be very esoteric if you don't have an experienced training partner/coach.

Are you familiar with the 5-3-1 method?

vdizenzo
01-27-2011, 07:18 PM
I think wrestling and trainng four day a week for a teenager is just too much. Plus you don't need to put that much thought into your program. I'd go with 5/3/1, starting strength, or Bigger Faster Stronger. Just lift two days a week, three tops, and just keep rotating days.

Travis Bell
01-27-2011, 07:30 PM
I think wrestling and trainng four day a week for a teenager is just too much. Plus you don't need to put that much thought into your program. I'd go with 5/3/1, starting strength, or Bigger Faster Stronger. Just lift two days a week, three tops, and just keep rotating days.

Agreed.

In season wrestlers, with cutting weight and intense training at practice every day, weight lifting is over the top.

Speaking from personal experience, even at 2 days a week I really have to reign in their workouts otherwise they are way too sore the following days.

Hobo Beard
01-27-2011, 07:33 PM
I think wrestling and trainng four day a week for a teenager is just too much. Plus you don't need to put that much thought into your program. I'd go with 5/3/1, starting strength, or Bigger Faster Stronger. Just lift two days a week, three tops, and just keep rotating days.


Agreed.

In season wrestlers, with cutting weight and intense training at practice every day, weight lifting is over the top.

Speaking from personal experience, even at 2 days a week I really have to reign in their workouts otherwise they are way too sore the following days.

What would you recommend for 2 days a week?

Maybe something like:

Day 1:
Squat, Deadlift, Pull-Ups, Abs

Day 2:
Bench Press, Overhead Press, Dips, Curls?

joey54
01-27-2011, 07:53 PM
Your annoying, please go away.

It matters because you joined this board no less than 2 months ago with countless threads and questions about Westside training. You can't figure your own training out, yet are the first to jump on board and offer advice to a kid, when we have lifters on the board who actually train at Westside and are more qualified to answer questions like these. You basically are trying to teach someone how to **** on the toilet when you are still in diapers.

I appreciate your enthusiasm, willingness to learn, and desire to help others. But, just shut up sometimes.

Learning2Lift
01-27-2011, 09:23 PM
I wrestled in high school and we lifted 2 days a week in season but it was designed more to maintain strength and rehab. Like stated above, westside in season would be way to hard on the body even if ur not cutting weight. Westside out of season would be great.

pricedtosell
01-27-2011, 09:33 PM
For anything like wrestling, muay thai, MMA, etc., you really shouldn't be lifting more than 2-3 times a week. With the amount of actual live wrestling and conditioning you'll be doing, 2 heavy strength training sessions a week should be more than enough. Starting Strength is perfect for this. With your limited resources (time and equipment), Westside probably isn't the best choice.

"The less experienced the athlete, the simpler the program should be." - Rippetoe in Starting Strength

Workout #1 - Squat - 3x5, Bench - 3x5, Deadlift - 1x5.
Workout #2 - Squat - 3x5, Press - 3x5, Power clean - 3x5.

Just perform both of these workouts once a week and add 5 lbs to your lifts every workout. Keep adding weight each week until you plateau, which at your age and experience level, shouldn't be for a long time.

Dan Fanelli
01-27-2011, 10:26 PM
It matters because you joined this board no less than 2 months ago with countless threads and questions about Westside training. You can't figure your own training out, yet are the first to jump on board and offer advice to a kid, when we have lifters on the board who actually train at Westside and are more qualified to answer questions like these. You basically are trying to teach someone how to **** on the toilet when you are still in diapers.

I appreciate your enthusiasm, willingness to learn, and desire to help others. But, just shut up sometimes.

Whatever man. I joined this board 2 months ago, but didn't just start training. If I say something and you disagree with it, then go ahead and correct me. I dont train at Westside and never will. The OP doesn't either, and probably never will.

He asked a simple question, and I gave a simple answer. You dont seem to disagree with anything im saying, but instead you disagree with me as a person. I dont have time for you, so im done. Im ignoring you unless you have something productive to offer.

Cmanuel
01-27-2011, 11:17 PM
I think wrestling and trainng four day a week for a teenager is just too much. Plus you don't need to put that much thought into your program. I'd go with 5/3/1, starting strength, or Bigger Faster Stronger. Just lift two days a week, three tops, and just keep rotating days.

This 100%.

And why don't we have an ignore feature on this forum?

joey54
01-28-2011, 05:09 AM
Whatever man. I joined this board 2 months ago, but didn't just start training. If I say something and you disagree with it, then go ahead and correct me. I dont train at Westside and never will. The OP doesn't either, and probably never will.

He asked a simple question, and I gave a simple answer. You dont seem to disagree with anything im saying, but instead you disagree with me as a person. I dont have time for you, so im done. Im ignoring you unless you have something productive to offer.

You didn't answer the question with anything substantive enough to provide actual assistance, as a lot of your responses are. I have no problem with you or anyone I meet on the Internet as a person. I have no idea who you are other than how you present yourself here. It us just that regurgitating tidbits of advice people give to you and making the advice out to be your own is irresponsible.

You obviously are intelligent, want to learn, and are trying to figure thing out. Sometimes the best way to do this is by simply observing, rather than asking a million questions or always offering input. The threads I learn the most from are the ones I don't participate in.

If I was the only one who notices this, I can assure you I would not be this vocal. However, others do share my opinion on the matter. Maybe hijacking this thread is not the best way to go about it, and for this I apologize to our members who are put off by this.

Dan Fanelli
01-28-2011, 06:23 AM
I'm sorry Joey you are wrong.

Simple question: can I do "westside" with my limited equipment?

Simple answer: Yes, all you need is a barbell, squat rack, bench, and weights.

There is no regurgitation there, and that was as substantiative as it needed to be.

You may learn by not participating, but I don't. So I'm going to continue participating. Feel free to disagree with me on anything though. (something you still haven't done)

Off Road
01-28-2011, 07:00 AM
Let's get the thread back on topic...

Travis Bell
01-28-2011, 07:41 AM
This 100%.

And why don't we have an ignore feature on this forum?

It's on the user control panel.

I'm with Off Road, This thread is way off topic. We had a good discussion going here, lets keep it that way

Parker 1995
01-28-2011, 08:02 AM
Are you planning on doing all this while you Wrestle?

If so it is way too much for anyone.

How will your week look as far as sports go?

Wrestling just ended, and Right now I will be doing 2 days a week wrestling and 4 days conditioning(running, tire flips, sleds etc) I will be doing those either in the morning or I will do weights in the morning so there not over lapping.

Parker 1995
01-28-2011, 08:03 AM
Didn't realize the OP was a wreslter.

Are you willing to gain weight, and if so how much. If you are willing to eat and gain weight it could work pretty well, but if you are trying to stay in the same weight class, then that program is not going to be good.

Yes I am trying to gain weight I want to wrestle 171 or 189, and I am wrestling 160 right now.

Parker 1995
01-28-2011, 08:08 AM
Whatever man. I joined this board 2 months ago, but didn't just start training. If I say something and you disagree with it, then go ahead and correct me. I dont train at Westside and never will. The OP doesn't either, and probably never will.

He asked a simple question, and I gave a simple answer. You dont seem to disagree with anything im saying, but instead you disagree with me as a person. I dont have time for you, so im done. Im ignoring you unless you have something productive to offer.

I actually Will starting monday, but to everybody stating Starting Strength etc, I did those back when I first started Lifting Like 2 years ago. It worked great, but didnt excite me, I will be doing Westside from now on Looks like a great program.

ThomasG
01-28-2011, 08:24 AM
In a caloric surplus and enough sleep I say give it a shot. You may have to reduce your volume on the RE and DE days if you start to feel burned out. Everyones work capacity is so different you'll never know if it works till you try it.

Dan Fanelli
01-28-2011, 08:25 AM
If wrestling just ended don't you have a lot of time to prepare before it starts back up? I'd minimize conditioning and focus on the strength and size. WS4SB will still maintain a decent level of conditioning. Then as the season approaches you can up the conditioning a bit.

Sounds like your good to go. Start a log in the journal section and others will help you as you progress

Parker 1995
01-28-2011, 08:27 AM
In a caloric surplus and enough sleep I say give it a shot. You may have to reduce your volume on the RE and DE days if you start to feel burned out. Everyones work capacity is so different you'll never know if it works till you try it.

Thanks Yeahh I dont know how many calories I should consume, and Im goona spread it like this
ME Upper Monday

Re Lower Wensday

Re Upper Friday

Me Lower Sunday
That should Give me plenty of time for rest, and I usually recover very quickly

BloodandThunder
01-28-2011, 08:28 AM
To OP, yes you can do a basic Westside routine with some basic equipment. Those guys, including the original WS out west, got very strong without using accommodating resistance, foam, and many of the tools they use now.

But to go along the lines with Vinny, I'd do starting strength or a 5x5. There is a very good reason many lifters starting out in their teens go on these programs, they work. Are they fancy? No. But if you simply work hard and not bastardize them too much, they'll produce results. Especially, since you want to do conditioning, wrestling, and lifting at the same time.

Westside is a great program, but often than not, they get bastardized so much by new lifters that they don't work longterm (ie doing 50 exercises a day, not waving your volume, etc.). If you want a simple Westside routine, look up the Eight Keys article and basic template by Dave Tate. It's somewhere on EliteFTS from the earlier 2000's. Don't change one thing, read up on Westside more (Book of Methods or their articles), and go from there.

Parker 1995
01-28-2011, 08:30 AM
If wrestling just ended don't you have a lot of time to prepare before it starts back up? I'd minimize conditioning and focus on the strength and size. WS4SB will still maintain a decent level of conditioning. Then as the season approaches you can up the conditioning a bit.

Sounds like your good to go. Start a log in the journal section and others will help you as you progress

Yes But I love conditioning, and I know how alot of you say foucus on the strength then yout tummy, but I lost alot of weight, and I dont wanna jus gain that all back, well Muscel wise yes, but Im gonna condition so my stomach doesent expand.

Parker 1995
01-28-2011, 08:33 AM
To OP, yes you can do a basic Westside routine with some basic equipment. Those guys, including the original WS out west, got very strong without using accommodating resistance, foam, and many of the tools they use now.

But to go along the lines with Vinny, I'd do starting strength or a 5x5. There is a very good reason many lifters starting out in their teens go on these programs, they work. Are they fancy? No. But if you simply work hard and not bastardize them too much, they'll produce results. Especially, since you want to do conditioning, wrestling, and lifting at the same time.

Westside is a great program, but often than not, they get bastardized so much by new lifters that they don't work longterm (ie doing 50 exercises a day, not waving your volume, etc.). If you want a simple Westside routine, look up the Eight Keys article and basic template by Dave Tate. It's somewhere on EliteFTS from the earlier 2000's. Don't change one thing, read up on Westside more (Book of Methods or their articles), and go from there.
Thanks man im very religious when it comes o working out the only reason i bought my bench, and stuff was ause my parents would take me to the gym anymore so Illll have no problem following through with it, and I just finished HCT 6 weeks

Off Road
01-28-2011, 08:38 AM
You've got some pretty strong and advanced lifters telling you to do Starting Strength or 5x5...I'd be inclined to listen to them.

Parker 1995
01-28-2011, 08:40 AM
You've got some pretty strong and advanced lifters telling you to do Starting Strength or 5x5...I'd be inclined to listen to them.

I have in the past I did it and made some good gains on it, and what is 5x5?

joey54
01-28-2011, 09:09 AM
I have in the past I did it and made some good gains on it, and what is 5x5?

The more popular versions are Bill Starrs or Madcow's. The difference between the two would be I believe either doing cleans and high pulls, or rows and deadlifts. A simple google search on both will provide all the information you need. I am doing the madcow one at the moment in an attempt to regain strength lost due to injury and I am 31.

Parker 1995
01-28-2011, 09:40 AM
The more popular versions are Bill Starrs or Madcow's. The difference between the two would be I believe either doing cleans and high pulls, or rows and deadlifts. A simple google search on both will provide all the information you need. I am doing the madcow one at the moment in an attempt to regain strength lost due to injury and I am 31.

Ohh I see If I was to do that I would definetly pick cleans.

BloodandThunder
01-28-2011, 10:19 AM
Pick either of the available 5x5's. Although SS would still be applicable to you looking at your listed stats. Run either one into the ground, reset it, run it into the ground again, and refrain from any extra lifting. Eat some good food, get alot of sleep, take advantage of youth. These routines build a great foundation and will hone your technique. Paying attention to technique and form now will pay off immensely in the future. Lifting is not a sprint, it's a marathon. It's not until you're out of the area of linear strength increases that you should do any differently. You have two of the best benchers around telling you the same, two of which trained with one of the best minds in the sport.

I know it seems "sexy" to just keep switching routines every 5 weeks or so, but just follow the above steps and you profit. Simple sometimes works!

vdizenzo
01-28-2011, 12:31 PM
Lifting does not need to be sexy. It needs to be hard work. If you need a fancy routine to get motivated, you are not in the right frame of mind for training. I know as a wrestler you must have a very good work ethic. Quick question, do you ever cut weight for matches?

pricedtosell
01-28-2011, 03:11 PM
I actually Will starting monday, but to everybody stating Starting Strength etc, I did those back when I first started Lifting Like 2 years ago. It worked great, but didnt excite me, I will be doing Westside from now on Looks like a great program.

Way back 2 years ago when you were 13? Take the hint from the number of people on here telling you to do Starting Strength. You're young, small and your numbers are still low, SS will generate the best gains possible for you at this point.

Parker 1995
01-28-2011, 03:33 PM
Lifting does not need to be sexy. It needs to be hard work. If you need a fancy routine to get motivated, you are not in the right frame of mind for training. I know as a wrestler you must have a very good work ethic. Quick question, do you ever cut weight for matches?

Yeahh I cut very frequently for matches... Its not as fun as it looks.

ThomasG
01-28-2011, 03:38 PM
Yeahh I cut very frequently for matches... Its not as fun as it looks.

Yea since Vinny doesn't know anything about cutting lol.

BoAnderson71
01-28-2011, 05:31 PM
do a 5x5 routine. do a heavy squat day doing 5x5 add 5 pounds every week if you hit all the reps. Then do cleans and bench on a different day same principle, and assisatance do a lighter squat day and a lighter clean and bench day, simple, easy, effective. Last year I tried out westside. I lifted by myself mostly in my garage, it did not work well for me. It is too easy to choose the wrong ME movements etc. Just stick to something basic.

Parker 1995
01-28-2011, 05:39 PM
Yea since Vinny doesn't know anything about cutting lol.

Is that sarcasm haha

Parker 1995
01-28-2011, 05:40 PM
do a 5x5 routine. do a heavy squat day doing 5x5 add 5 pounds every week if you hit all the reps. Then do cleans and bench on a different day same principle, and assisatance do a lighter squat day and a lighter clean and bench day, simple, easy, effective. Last year I tried out westside. I lifted by myself mostly in my garage, it did not work well for me. It is too easy to choose the wrong ME movements etc. Just stick to something basic.

allright thanks

vdizenzo
01-28-2011, 08:59 PM
I have done a few 18+ 24 hour cuts. My point is, I bet you use the same method to cut each time. I know I do. You know why, because it works. Think about your training, it doesn't have to be fancy, it just has to work. Just like a cut, it's hard f'ing work. Stop trying to look for a better answer. Best of luck with your efforts.