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shocker4221
02-09-2011, 11:01 PM
I was just curious as to what is the most carryover anyone has got from a single ply bench shirt compared to their RAW bench? Does this translate usually to a percentage or is it just by the quality of shirt and how much you train in it? Thanks for any responses

SELK
02-10-2011, 01:05 AM
Many factors, including technique, lockout strength, limb lengths etc.. Somewhere between 100 and 300lbs.

jtteg_x
02-10-2011, 02:20 AM
Many factors, including technique, lockout strength, limb lengths etc.. Somewhere between 100 and 300lbs.

and body fat too!

I was able to press 405lb for a double off a "meet fit" single ply super katana. my best raw bench at that time was somewhere in the 310-325lb range. another factor i'd like to add is you either dedicate training your raw bench or shirted bench.

blong
02-10-2011, 04:32 AM
I got a fury that doesn't give near the carryover of a katana. So I do think shirt type makes a difference along with the other factors mentioned by others. Main thing is experiment with different shirts and find which one is best for your body type. I 'm not as good with a shirt as others and I get about 75-80 lbs out of a standard katana.

AdamBAG
02-10-2011, 07:27 AM
I'm getting about 150-180 out of a single-ply SK. Closer to 250 out of a double-ply Rage-X.

douglasoh5
02-10-2011, 09:58 AM
Id say 275+ out of my ACE when I was stronger. Im weak rite now so prolly alot less

David Lewis
02-10-2011, 02:26 PM
I get 300 out of my Super Katana

shocker4221
02-10-2011, 04:32 PM
I get 300 out of my Super Katana

your getting 300 over your raw max from a single ply?

shocker4221
02-11-2011, 03:39 AM
and body fat too!

I was able to press 405lb for a double off a "meet fit" single ply super katana. my best raw bench at that time was somewhere in the 310-325lb range. another factor i'd like to add is you either dedicate training your raw bench or shirted bench.

I'm still new to geared lifting, but have done one meet with a shirt and got about 90 lbs out of it. Since then I have been training raw but am planning on getting another shirt for a meet in June. I know i need to break in the shirt and work in it to get the most out of it, but I am also entering a raw meet in August. You mention either dedicate to one or the other, but is there a way to maintain both?

shocker4221
02-11-2011, 03:41 AM
I'm getting about 150-180 out of a single-ply SK. Closer to 250 out of a double-ply Rage-X.

how long have you been workin in your SK to get that type of carryover?

NickAus
02-11-2011, 04:14 AM
Yeah 150-200 from a single ply is common.

David Lewis
02-11-2011, 05:43 AM
your getting 300 over your raw max from a single ply?

Yup!! I am only 20lbs off my multi ply meet PR with my single Super Katana.

AdamBAG
02-11-2011, 08:20 AM
how long have you been workin in your SK to get that type of carryover?

A few months maybe? I'd done a lot of benching multi-ply before I tried single-ply so the transition wasn't very tough.



Yup!! I am only 20lbs off my multi ply meet PR with my single Super Katana.

I hate you Dave! 300! :)

What size are you wearing? I've got a 50 and I'm 255. I think I either need a 48 or to at least take the sleeves in.

David Lewis
02-11-2011, 10:32 AM
A few months maybe? I'd done a lot of benching multi-ply before I tried single-ply so the transition wasn't very tough.




I hate you Dave! 300! :)

What size are you wearing? I've got a 50 and I'm 255. I think I either need a 48 or to at least take the sleeves in.

I am sitting at 350 right now and have a 54...it is definatly tight and a pain to get on and off, but I am really impreesed with the shirt. Even the old regular Katana that I have I am getting 200+ out of...

BloodandThunder
02-11-2011, 10:38 AM
Hit 530 in a six year old off the rack Fury (probably close to 120 carryover). I also maybe have a shirt on 10-12 weeks a year for two meets. Yea ideally I'd wear it more often, but I can see 200-300 lbs carryover from a single if you have good leverage and a big belly.

JK1
02-11-2011, 11:21 AM
I would guess I get about 200 or a little more from my single ply SK. The problem is I never take my raw bench to an absolute true max, so I don't know what I can or cannot do (I'm a shirted bencher, I just don't see a point of pushing for a raw max anymore). All I can say is I've hit in the upper 400's raw without too much struggle and I've gotten 735 full range in the shirt. I've also gotten 600 off a 3 board RAW and I've hit 805 off the same boards in my competition single ply SK if you want to use that as any kind of a reference.

When I benched in a single ply Rage X, I was alot weaker---benching 435 (done raw in a bench contest) and benching 635 in a meet.

So, based on that I'd say 200 is very believable for either shirt .


One thing to be aware of is you absolutely have to have an SK set just perfectly for it to work right. If you can get consistent with it, its a great shirt. If you are not consistent with it or you have things off just a little bit, you will not be able to use the shirt to its maximum potential.

shocker4221
02-11-2011, 06:15 PM
I would guess I get about 200 or a little more from my single ply SK. The problem is I never take my raw bench to an absolute true max, so I don't know what I can or cannot do (I'm a shirted bencher, I just don't see a point of pushing for a raw max anymore). All I can say is I've hit in the upper 400's raw without too much struggle and I've gotten 735 full range in the shirt. I've also gotten 600 off a 3 board RAW and I've hit 805 off the same boards in my competition single ply SK if you want to use that as any kind of a reference.

When I benched in a single ply Rage X, I was alot weaker---benching 435 (done raw in a bench contest) and benching 635 in a meet.

So, based on that I'd say 200 is very believable for either shirt .


One thing to be aware of is you absolutely have to have an SK set just perfectly for it to work right. If you can get consistent with it, its a great shirt. If you are not consistent with it or you have things off just a little bit, you will not be able to use the shirt to its maximum potential.

when you say set just perfectly, what do you mean, the neck, sleeves?

kingns
02-11-2011, 10:30 PM
My best raw bench so far is 365 and my best shirted is 450 in a meet and 455 in the gym. The lifts were all done around the same time. I'm hoping to get 400 raw and 500 in the shirt, so maybe I'm doing something wrong but thats only 100.

shocker4221
02-11-2011, 11:18 PM
My best raw bench so far is 365 and my best shirted is 450 in a meet and 455 in the gym. The lifts were all done around the same time. I'm hoping to get 400 raw and 500 in the shirt, so maybe I'm doing something wrong but thats only 100.

your not alone. I have a Fury and was only getting about 100 lbs out of it, but maybe that's cause I had only worked in the shirt for a short time and being a beginner with them.

JK1
02-12-2011, 12:01 AM
when you say set just perfectly, what do you mean, the neck, sleeves?

Thats a bit hard to explain because it does vary a bit depending on a lifters proportions and how that lifter sets up--ie if they Arch into their setup or they do a "metal militia" type setup on the bench can make a difference in how the shirt has to be set..

in a single ply SK, I think the sleeves need to be TIGHT and the collar a bit looser. If the collar is too tight, you'll never touch weight. If the sleeves are too loose, you lose support towards the lockout. Ken Anderson told me to break the shirt in, then have the chestplate and arms tightened until it is near my previous meet best before I can touch. The shirt will stretch quite a bit---it was frustrating at first because I had to have the arms tightened and the chestplate tightened. Now the shirt is broken in, it seems like its not stretching as much. If you use a single ply SK, plan on it having to be tightened. DO NOT try to stretch the arms if they are tight. Just pull them on, they'll stretch on your arms.

Where you set the seam as it curves (remember this shirt has the 'torque sleeve' design with a curved seam) on the arm will determine how much you jack up the shirt. I personally seem to get more out of the shirt by rotating the sleeve seam vs just pulling the collar down. I've seen people put it on and then yank the collar down to the point their nipples are almost popping out and then go out to the platform and bomb.

I don't use it extremely jacked up because I can't touch weight with it----if its set right I'll touch at somewhere around 600 give or take a bit. This does vary depending on how fat I am. Right now I'm a bit heavier, so I am touching with a heavier weight. I set the sleeves with the degree of twist I want based on the curve of the seam being at the point of my elbow wen I put it on. then when I'm in it, I just have my handler pull the front of the shirt tight, they don't pull on the collar, instead they pull the collar down by pulling the front of the shirt down.. I think you can stretch the **** out of the collar of a stock SK if you grab the collar and yank it down like you can a Rage X with a reinforced collar or a double ply shirt.


Also always pull the back of the shirt up BEFORE you pull the front tight. I bench in a stretchy back. That back will work the collar of the shirt up as you get setup on the bench, so pulling it up gives a bit of leeway. I actually try to bunch it a bit on top of my shoulders.

You will have to play with it a bit to determine how exactly it needs to be set for your proportions/body shape.

shocker4221
02-12-2011, 12:31 AM
JK1,

I am planning on getting the SK but am a bit concerned now that you mention the need to get the alterations done after breaking it in. The only meets I plan on competing in don't allow any type of alterations to a shirt.

hulk242
02-12-2011, 09:57 AM
I have been dedicated to raw lifting for almost 2 years. I threw an old karins dd on and get 300 lbs from it. When I was really working it before it was a bit more. There is not a huge difference in peaking for either. You have to throw a bit more mid and lockout work for gear and more low range for raw. I actually went back to training like I had when I was in gear and my raw is up. Goes to show..... As far as the singles out today, I don't get much more impressed, as I have seen some get around the same as a double. Not everyone but a lot are real close.

I think just having and working the CNS to a great capacity will allow a big carryover. Along with dropping a sack and allowing your mind realize you can.

AdamBAG
02-12-2011, 01:08 PM
JK1, you are right about stretching. I'm definitely getting the sleeves taken in on mine after my meet next week. I'm not getting the carryover to lockout like I get with my double rage-x, which has super tight sleeves.



JK1,

I am planning on getting the SK but am a bit concerned now that you mention the need to get the alterations done after breaking it in. The only meets I plan on competing in don't allow any type of alterations to a shirt.

If you are going single-ply then SK is the way to go in my opinion. Every shirt will stretch. The SK is still really durable as bench shirts go.


I have been dedicated to raw lifting for almost 2 years. I threw an old karins dd on and get 300 lbs from it. When I was really working it before it was a bit more. There is not a huge difference in peaking for either. You have to throw a bit more mid and lockout work for gear and more low range for raw. I actually went back to training like I had when I was in gear and my raw is up. Goes to show..... As far as the singles out today, I don't get much more impressed, as I have seen some get around the same as a double. Not everyone but a lot are real close.

I think just having and working the CNS to a great capacity will allow a big carryover. Along with dropping a sack and allowing your mind realize you can.

Very well said (as usual). My training is best when I just get in the shirt every three weeks or so and otherwise just try to get strong.

JK1
02-12-2011, 01:17 PM
JK1,

I am planning on getting the SK but am a bit concerned now that you mention the need to get the alterations done after breaking it in. The only meets I plan on competing in don't allow any type of alterations to a shirt.

What I'm talking about isn't doing anything but tightening seams that are already there. As far as I know, even the IPF/USAPL allows you to tighten the existing seams on a shirt---you just can't add new seams or add or remove additional material.

That should be legal--but I will say I do not compete in USAPL or IPF, so there may be something in the rules I do not know about.



If that is the case, your only choice is to get a shirt that is smaller and stretch into it. That will be a bit harder to do, but it can be done.

JK1
02-12-2011, 06:14 PM
JK1, you are right about stretching. I'm definitely getting the sleeves taken in on mine after my meet next week. I'm not getting the carryover to lockout like I get with my double rage-x, which has super tight sleeves.



Very well said (as usual). My training is best when I just get in the shirt every three weeks or so and otherwise just try to get strong.


For me in a single ply SK, if the sleeves are too loose, I'll have a good pop off my chest, then basically nothing at about the level of a 3 board. If the sleeves are adequately tight, it feels as if there is pressure on the arms to just about lockout.


Its funny you mention a Rage X. When I benched in that shirt, I had the arms relatively loose---much looser than the SK I use now. I also had a much tighter chest plate. In my mind, the chest plate is the key with a single ply Rage X. You have to have that chestplate tight or you won't get as much out of it. Ease of touchign is determined by how tight the sleeves are. If the sleeves are too tight, you won't be able to touch weight. To me its nearly the opposite of a Super Katana in terms of chest plate and sleeves and which one should be tight.


I also agree raw stregth is the real key, even if you compete in gear. For me, the key is pushing raw strength up, especially raw board work on a 3 or 4 board. There seems to be a direct correlation between what I can do off a 3 or 4 board raw and what I bench full range in a shirt.

shocker4221
02-24-2011, 09:47 PM
well I got my new Sk and tried it out today, but didn't have too much time in because my buddy had to leave. Just to give some info out there, my RAW is somewhere around 400 and last year I was able to get 475 out of a Fury so I started today with 455 and needed help just getting my hands on the bar because it was so tight. When I ordered it from Ken he originally suggested a 50 but then said I should be able to squeeze into a 48 so that's what I got. Well 455 didn't come down far at all so I put 505 on and got down to between a 2 and 3 board for a single. When I took the bar down as far as it would go and began to push, the weight just flew up like it was nothing. So finally here's my question, should I keep the last weight and just try to work triples in it bringing it down lower each time or should I add a bit more weight? And at what point should I try to jack the shirt up a bit? Thanks for any help

kingns
02-24-2011, 10:22 PM
1. I'd say triples. If you did an easy single, im sure that if you had done a triple with it the second and third rep would have gone down easier and lower. I like doing 3's to practice touching and just shirt practice in general.
2. I wouldn't try jacking the shirt down unless I had already touched with it. I have a rage x and without lowering the collar I can touch anything, but once its really pulled down it all changes. So if you have trouble touching a 30lb pr I would not try to make the shirt HARDER to touch in. Just my advice

AdamBAG
02-25-2011, 08:07 AM
I agree, no need to jack it down. I'd just set it where it feels comfortable and then just get some work done in it.

Triples are a great way to do it, but I don't think just going up some in weight and trying to touch is a terrible idea either. If you are getting it down to a 1-2 board height then you aren't going to have to go up a huge amount to touch.

mastermonster
02-26-2011, 03:45 PM
Before my shoulder got so bad (about 2008) I could get about 235 lbs. carry over in a 50 super katana. About 405 strict raw and 640 in the shirt.

shocker4221
02-27-2011, 12:53 AM
I really appreciate all the feedback from everyone. Since I've only had one other shirt before the SK I am still new to geared lifting. I do have one question or concern, i am not able to get the new shirt seated properly all the way up into my armpits yet. I had the same problem with my first shirt and it eventually stretched a bit and now fits fine. Would using less weight still break in the shirt or should I continue using a weight that comes down farther?