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JT111
03-03-2011, 10:14 AM
I 've been lifting a year so i was recommend to take the madcow 5x5 program! just been reading through the Strong lifts 5x5 where you do 5 working sets, on the madcow you only do one heavy and 4 ramping sets. I didn't really feel like it was enough volume at all, but i 've stuck with it.. was just wondering why you only have one heavy set, and if its worth switching to the Strong lifts as this seems more geared towards muscle gains which is primarily what i want.

Captain Awesome
03-03-2011, 11:51 AM
I don't know too much about stronglift's 5x5, but if its anything practical or like texas method, it runs about 80% of your 5RM. Madcow ramps up to a sub-maximal or maximal set of 5. It would be impractical to to 5x5 of a 95-100% + 5RM for 5 straight sets.

I think 5x5 straight sets are a great way to build strength. However, I also believe that its a great way to overtrain if your workouts are not properly set up. Texas method is excellent for building strength, but most intermediate lifters only make progress for about 4-6 weeks because adding 5lbs to the bars every week becomes damn near impossible at that stage of training.

I think 5x5 straight sets with 5lb increases starting at 80% of your current 5RM is an excellent way to add some more to your numbers, but I would only recommend it in 4 week blocks before having some periodization in the mix, or a deload.

Personally, I prefer a modified version of MC 5x5 and TM with a mix of periodized training. I think that's a good way to keep your lower back healthy, but still make decent gains.

Captain Awesome
03-03-2011, 11:55 AM
You might consider a 2-4 week strength block, then a 2-4 week hypertrophy block and then a 2 week deload block. Or separate strength and hypertrophy with a 2 week deload block in the middle, this way you can train heavy on your hypertrophy block. Back to the over usage of the word impractical; it would be impractical for an intermediate trainee to run 8 weeks heavy with a two week deload. Unless you modify it so there isn't such dramatic linear progression.

cant hit bombz
03-03-2011, 12:17 PM
I just started SL 5x5. It looks like it is geared more toward the beginning/ low intermedite lifter. once you stagnate on 5x5 you progress to the SL intermedite program which i believe closley resembles a 5/3/1 format.


oh and the E30 AVY = dassex ^

JT111
03-03-2011, 01:00 PM
You might consider a 2-4 week strength block, then a 2-4 week hypertrophy block and then a 2 week deload block. Or separate strength and hypertrophy with a 2 week deload block in the middle, this way you can train heavy on your hypertrophy block. Back to the over usage of the word impractical; it would be impractical for an intermediate trainee to run 8 weeks heavy with a two week deload. Unless you modify it so there isn't such dramatic linear progression.

firstly, thanks alot for your help! So i 'm in about week 4 of madcow 5x5 do you think maybe a mix up of either SL5x5 or say something more volume geared such as GVT for 4 weeks would be a good mix up?? Alot of people emphasised keeping on the 12 week program.

Thanks again for your help

mike mcgee
03-03-2011, 01:15 PM
I've played around with some of the various 5X5 methods and am currently doing 5/3/1. As Captain Awesome mentioned, I did burn out, I burned out quick. I guess I have to ask you, what are your goals? Your training should always be geared toward accomplishing a goal. Why was MadCow suggested, what was the reasoning... I'm sure you must've had some training goal in mind. IMO 5X5 training is good for volume, 5/3/1 is good for setting PRs. There are also hybrid methods that incorporate strength and metabolic conditioning. If you know what you're trying to accomplish, someone should be able to point you in the right direction.

Captain Awesome
03-03-2011, 01:23 PM
No, I'm definitely not a fan of GVT. I believe its to the point of ridiculousness, or as much as I know about it. I'm talking about working with sets of 3-4x8-10 with the occasional 12 rep sets, obviously with different intensities. Stick with the same style; mainly compounds with a few isolation movements and attention to problem areas like the calves.

When you switch methods of training, or different blocks, is completely up to you. I don't know your recovery or the difficulty of your workouts. You need to know that yourself and know how to look for tell tale signs, such as inability to keep strict form. When things start getting a little squirrely on you, like you compensate 1 side on squats, or aren't hitting normal ATG depth or whatever, it may be a good time to switch things up and come back to it. Or even lower your work sets to 3x5 of straight sets.

Ultimately, as long as their is sufficient tension and consistency, muscles will grow and you will become stronger. How you mix it up, whether it be short blocks or long blocks, is up to you. Also keep in mind that you don't always have to progress. Sometimes you can chill at a weight or work under normal weights - mix it up. These are all tips that will help you avoid injury and symptoms of overtraining on your lower back.

RichMcGuire
03-03-2011, 02:19 PM
firstly, thanks alot for your help! So i 'm in about week 4 of madcow 5x5 do you think maybe a mix up of either SL5x5 or say something more volume geared such as GVT for 4 weeks would be a good mix up?? Alot of people emphasised keeping on the 12 week program.

Thanks again for your help

At week 4, you still arent lifting your max 5rm. It takes 4 weeks to get to your old pr's..week 5 is when it gets harder. And in all reality, it's not a 12 week program either.

In my opinion, if you start ****ing with it now, you just wasted 4 weeks of building up as per billstar(madcow) 5x5.

Captain Awesome
03-03-2011, 02:44 PM
At week 4, you still arent lifting your max 5rm. It takes 4 weeks to get to your old pr's..week 5 is when it gets harder. And in all reality, it's not a 12 week program either.

In my opinion, if you start ****ing with it now, you just wasted 4 weeks of building up as per billstar(madcow) 5x5.

This.

JT111
03-03-2011, 03:40 PM
This.

Good point, just was questioning the volume, worried that it wasnt enough for muscle gains which is m goal.

Thanks alot for your help!! Also thanks to the others above fpr your time :)

RichMcGuire
03-03-2011, 03:58 PM
Good point, just was questioning the volume, worried that it wasnt enough for muscle gains which is m goal.

Thanks alot for your help!! Also thanks to the others above fpr your time :)

thx, but its just what the program says.

Friday has quite a bit of volume though with the dips, curls, and tricep extensions though.

RichMcGuire
03-03-2011, 04:22 PM
I should add, if your specific goal is muscular gains, you might be better off with a different program. Just keep in mind what I said about throwing away your first 4 weeks of climbing up to your old pr.

joey54
03-03-2011, 06:49 PM
Check out my journal starting in October to see what Madcow 5x5 run to the T can do for you. Granted, I am recovering from an injury, but sticking to it consistently has allowed me to come back pretty quickly and strongly.

JT111
03-04-2011, 04:35 AM
I should add, if your specific goal is muscular gains, you might be better off with a different program. Just keep in mind what I said about throwing away your first 4 weeks of climbing up to your old pr.

Sure, go i guess i should keep it up for another 3-4 weeks?? What would you recommend after?
Thanks

JT111
03-04-2011, 04:36 AM
Check out my journal starting in October to see what Madcow 5x5 run to the T can do for you. Granted, I am recovering from an injury, but sticking to it consistently has allowed me to come back pretty quickly and strongly.

Have you got a link? i cant find it... But really interested to see!
Thanks :)

Captain Awesome
03-04-2011, 07:17 AM
I should add, if your specific goal is muscular gains, you might be better off with a different program. Just keep in mind what I said about throwing away your first 4 weeks of climbing up to your old pr.

I agree with this. You're looking for growth, but following a strength rep/set scheme. You'd do better to do a hypertrophy oriented rep/set scheme, but with mostly compounds. Although, many people, including myself, have made excellent gains following strength programs - so don't write them off as if they are no good for building muscle. A lot of bodybuilding programs, IMO, are simply stupid. Too many exercises, too many sets/reps, too much isolation, too many ways of hitting a muscle from every angle; you name it. I believe most strength programs can be modified for hypertrophy.

But, as Rich is saying; that could be 4 weeks thrown out. Plus, hypertrophy requires tension (weight), so the more you can move, the better your gains will be. Finish out your program, and then find a program more suitable for your goals. Strength and hypertrophy go hand & hand, so don't drop strength training all together, but learn to run different variations of training methods. *Don't take this as me suggesting to switch programs every month...*

JT111
03-04-2011, 11:12 AM
I agree with this. You're looking for growth, but following a strength rep/set scheme. You'd do better to do a hypertrophy oriented rep/set scheme, but with mostly compounds. Although, many people, including myself, have made excellent gains following strength programs - so don't write them off as if they are no good for building muscle. A lot of bodybuilding programs, IMO, are simply stupid. Too many exercises, too many sets/reps, too much isolation, too many ways of hitting a muscle from every angle; you name it. I believe most strength programs can be modified for hypertrophy.

But, as Rich is saying; that could be 4 weeks thrown out. Plus, hypertrophy requires tension (weight), so the more you can move, the better your gains will be. Finish out your program, and then find a program more suitable for your goals. Strength and hypertrophy go hand & hand, so don't drop strength training all together, but learn to run different variations of training methods. *Don't take this as me suggesting to switch programs every month...*

Awesome, so say i continued this for another 4 weeks, so i get good benefit from the strength program, then hit something like the SL 5x5, so..

A,
Squat 5x5 (5x working sets)
Bench 5x5 (5x working sets)
Row 5x5 (5x working sets)
Dips 3x8

B,
Squat 5x5 (5x working sets)
Overhead Press 5x5 (5x working sets)
Deadlift 1x5 (1x working set)
Pull Ups 3x8
Barbell curl 3x8

Would something like this be effective post madcow 5x5? I guess i could add weight every workout where i hit the 5 reps on the last set?
Thanks for your advice, i understand what your saying about not changing workouts every month :P i guess it would be effective to switch every 2 - 3 between strength (madow) and something like this?
thanks again

Captain Awesome
03-04-2011, 11:22 AM
That would be damn hard to keep up with, if you're using heavy weights. Run MC until you feel like progress is starting to inhibit your ability to keep good form. When that happens, take 2 weeks using deload protocols, and then PM me. I have a routine that I designed that is an Upper, Lower, Full body split that is designed to be run for hypertrophy. Higher reps, typically less sets, but more total volume. It also allows for a little bit of flexibility and some isolation for problem areas. Overall though, it will whoop your ass though. My wife and I are finding that out now, and I'm following a modified maintenance version of my own program.

Off Road
03-04-2011, 12:55 PM
Do the Madcow 5x5 program, then deload, then run it again...
You won't get everything out of it with one run-through.
Get some big strength before worrying about bodybuilding routines.

JT111
03-04-2011, 03:25 PM
Do the Madcow 5x5 program, then deload, then run it again...
You won't get everything out of it with one run-through.
Get some big strength before worrying about bodybuilding routines.

What sort of numbers do you think i should be hitting? I 'm 194lbs @ 13-15% BF at the moment.
Cheers for input :)

JT111
03-04-2011, 03:45 PM
That would be damn hard to keep up with, if you're using heavy weights. Run MC until you feel like progress is starting to inhibit your ability to keep good form. When that happens, take 2 weeks using deload protocols, and then PM me. I have a routine that I designed that is an Upper, Lower, Full body split that is designed to be run for hypertrophy. Higher reps, typically less sets, but more total volume. It also allows for a little bit of flexibility and some isolation for problem areas. Overall though, it will whoop your ass though. My wife and I are finding that out now, and I'm following a modified maintenance version of my own program.

Brilliant thank you very much :)

RichMcGuire
03-04-2011, 08:13 PM
Awesome, so say i continued this for another 4 weeks, so i get good benefit from the strength program, then hit something like the SL 5x5, so..


Would something like this be effective post madcow 5x5? I guess i could add weight every workout where i hit the 5 reps on the last set?
Thanks for your advice, i understand what your saying about not changing workouts every month :P i guess it would be effective to switch every 2 - 3 between strength (madow) and something like this?
thanks again

You'd be going from an intermediate program to a beginner 5x5 program. Thad be dumb.

Billstarr 5x5(madcow) is an intermediate program. If anything, the order would have gone SL 5x5 or SS and then move on to Madcows.

You sound kind of like a beginner to me. I agree with Offroad in that you should focus on gaining strength.

JT111
03-05-2011, 06:44 AM
You'd be going from an intermediate program to a beginner 5x5 program. Thad be dumb.

Billstarr 5x5(madcow) is an intermediate program. If anything, the order would have gone SL 5x5 or SS and then move on to Madcows.

You sound kind of like a beginner to me. I agree with Offroad in that you should focus on gaining strength.

Im suggesting using the program as written (5x5) but as i've just finished i strength program, i would only increase weight once i start fully completing the 5 sets of 5, i.e building in load as normal instead of the suggested increase every workout.

You tell me if i 'm a beginner? I've lifted for 18 months, i defiantly can improve my overhead press, deads and squats, but i am benching 285.

Off Road
03-05-2011, 07:36 AM
How much do you squat and deadlift?

JT111
03-05-2011, 07:59 AM
How much do you squat and deadlift?

around 200 squat and 215 dead.. i know I need to improve, typically focused on bench when i first started, only been dead'n and squatting for 3 months, not sure how this affects everything..

Off Road
03-05-2011, 08:36 AM
i know I need to improve,..

And that is why we recommend the strength routine over the hypertrophy routine for guys like you, because you just won't have enough strength to make hypertrophy work that well yet. Spend some time building the strength and eating, that will build muscle, and will make the hypertrophy work more productive later.

It's a long process, but you have to go through it. My personal opinion, and we can debate this, but I think a typical guy should be able to press 150 for 5 reps, bench 250 for 5 reps, squat/deadlift 350 for 5 reps, and increase their recovery and work capacity before switching to a pure hypertrophy routine. Ya, I stole that from Iron Addict, but I agree with it 100%.

JT111
03-05-2011, 11:13 AM
And that is why we recommend the strength routine over the hypertrophy routine for guys like you, because you just won't have enough strength to make hypertrophy work that well yet. Spend some time building the strength and eating, that will build muscle, and will make the hypertrophy work more productive later.

It's a long process, but you have to go through it. My personal opinion, and we can debate this, but I think a typical guy should be able to press 150 for 5 reps, bench 250 for 5 reps, squat/deadlift 350 for 5 reps, and increase their recovery and work capacity before switching to a pure hypertrophy routine. Ya, I stole that from Iron Addict, but I agree with it 100%.

Ok sure! Well i can bench 285 x 5, and press 135 x 5, so i guess i need to pick up my DL & squats. I 'm trying to eat 3,500 cals per day ect for recovery, although i 'm on a strength program will i get decent size gains anyway? How will i know when i 'm ready to switch it up? when i hit these numbers?
Thanks for a informative post btw :) really helping :)

RichMcGuire
03-05-2011, 11:20 AM
around 200 squat and 215 dead.. i know I need to improve, typically focused on bench when i first started, only been dead'n and squatting for 3 months, not sure how this affects everything..

Yea, you sound like a beginner to me stil. As offroad also said, you'll be much better off with a simple strength routine. I'd suggest a linear progression where you add weight to the bar every workout you can.

"Well, you want to push one lift hard and not bother much with others - you wind up with an asymmetry in your ability to adapt. You have to pay the price for not pushing as hard on your squat, deads, rows, and overhead regardless of the program and that's just how it is" - Madcow

So for your overly disproportionate benchpress, you may need a more complex loading progression for just that lift such as a heavy - medium - light thing or whatever.

Either way, your other lifts don't sound advanced enough to be using madcows programming. You want to select a program that will allow you the fastest possibile progression before you move onto more complex programming.

RichMcGuire
03-05-2011, 11:24 AM
Ok sure! Well i can bench 285 x 5, and press 135 x 5, so i guess i need to pick up my DL & squats. I 'm trying to eat 3,500 cals per day ect for recovery, although i 'm on a strength program will i get decent size gains anyway? How will i know when i 'm ready to switch it up? when i hit these numbers?
Thanks for a informative post btw :) really helping :)

There is overlap with sacroplamic hypertrophy and myofibrillar hypertrophy and you will get sacroplasmic hypertrophy (what ppl attribute to high reps usually) just from doing enough work in a given amount of time. Excess Calories is a bigger notification of hypertrophy.

So yes, you will get bigger along with getting stronger with a 5x5.

imho, you shouldnt get caught up on when you can switch it up already because you have a long way to go.

JT111
03-05-2011, 11:52 AM
Yea, you sound like a beginner to me stil. As offroad also said, you'll be much better off with a simple strength routine. I'd suggest a linear progression where you add weight to the bar every workout you can.

"Well, you want to push one lift hard and not bother much with others - you wind up with an asymmetry in your ability to adapt. You have to pay the price for not pushing as hard on your squat, deads, rows, and overhead regardless of the program and that's just how it is" - Madcow

So for your overly disproportionate benchpress, you may need a more complex loading progression for just that lift such as a heavy - medium - light thing or whatever.

Either way, your other lifts don't sound advanced enough to be using madcows programming. You want to select a program that will allow you the fastest possibile progression before you move onto more complex programming.

Ok so i switch to a beginner program like SL 5x5 and add weight every workout for deads squats, OHP, Rows and use the madcow sheet for my bench, so stedy increase for bench and fast for other lifts?

RichMcGuire
03-05-2011, 04:20 PM
Ok so i switch to a beginner program like SL 5x5 and add weight every workout for deads squats, OHP, Rows and use the madcow sheet for my bench, so stedy increase for bench and fast for other lifts?

That would be one way to do it, yea. SL 5x5 is basically a copy of SS though - especially if you saw how much SL changed over the years. Seems like each year it became more and more like SS except with a couple extra sets.

Keep in mind Madcow has you bench twice a week though because you OH press on wed which still acts as an active recovery for your benchpress. So with that in mind, you might have something like this:


Week 1:

Mon:

Squat 3x5
Benchpress (ramp your way up to a top set of 1x5)
Row 3x5

Wed:

Squat 3x5
Overhead press 3x5
Deadlift 1x5

Fri:

Squat 3x5
Benchpress 1x3 @ 2.5% heavier than monday, 1x8 @ 3rd set weight from monday
Row 3x5

Week 2:

Mon:

Squat 3x5
Benchpress 1x5 (ramp your way up to this top set @ fridays top weight)
Overhead press 2x5
Deadlift 1x5

Wed:

Squat 3x5
Benchpress light (like the squats in madcow so its first 3 sets are same as monday and 4th set is a repeat of the 3rd set weight again)
Row 3x5

Fri:

Squat 3x5
Benchpress 1x3 @ 2.5% heavier than monday, 1x8 @ 3rd set weight from monday
Overheadpress 2x5
Deadlift 1x5

I should note that the reason you dont have a light bench on wed of the first week is because the overhead press 3x5 acts as an active recovery just like in madcows. The second week you do a light benchpress because there is no overhead press and this helps to maintain nerve pathways for strength.

JT111
03-05-2011, 04:55 PM
That would be one way to do it, yea. SL 5x5 is basically a copy of SS though - especially if you saw how much SL changed over the years. Seems like each year it became more and more like SS except with a couple extra sets.

Keep in mind Madcow has you bench twice a week though because you OH press on wed which still acts as an active recovery for your benchpress. So with that in mind, you might have something like this:


Week 1:

Mon:

Squat 3x5
Benchpress (ramp your way up to a top set of 1x5)
Row 3x5

Wed:

Squat 3x5
Overhead press 3x5
Deadlift 1x5

Fri:

Squat 3x5
Benchpress 1x3 @ 2.5% heavier than monday, 1x8 @ 3rd set weight from monday
Row 3x5

Week 2:

Mon:

Squat 3x5
Benchpress 1x5 (ramp your way up to this top set @ fridays top weight)
Overhead press 2x5
Deadlift 1x5

Wed:

Squat 3x5
Benchpress light (like the squats in madcow so its first 3 sets are same as monday and 4th set is a repeat of the 3rd set weight again)
Row 3x5

Fri:

Squat 3x5
Benchpress 1x3 @ 2.5% heavier than monday, 1x8 @ 3rd set weight from monday
Overheadpress 2x5
Deadlift 1x5

I should note that the reason you dont have a light bench on wed of the first week is because the overhead press 3x5 acts as an active recovery just like in madcows. The second week you do a light benchpress because there is no overhead press and this helps to maintain nerve pathways for strength.

Awesome thanks a ton dude!! looks great, i really appreciate it but I think i might just keep to the SL 5x5 because its easy to follow. Is it possible to add dips, or chins to SL 5x5? Also are you suggesting its a better idea to scrap madcow?? I guess i could follow the madcow bench press ramping sets and just add weight every workout to my squats and deads. Do i need anything for arms? or will they bulk with the compounds?
Thanks again!!

RichMcGuire
03-05-2011, 05:11 PM
Awesome thanks a ton dude!! looks great, i really appreciate it but I think i might just keep to the SL 5x5 because its easy to follow. Is it possible to add dips, or chins to SL 5x5? Also are you suggesting its a better idea to scrap madcow?? I guess i could follow the madcow bench press ramping sets and just add weight every workout to my squats and deads. Do i need anything for arms? or will they bulk with the compounds?
Thanks again!!

The one I layed out is easier to follow than the straight up madcow 5x5 you were doing.

If you want a slightly less optimal program, then do SL 5x5 and add dips and chinups to wherever you want. You could pair the dips with bench days and chinups with deadlift days. It really doesn't matter. It's more of a volume consideration. And yes, your arms will bulk up from rows and presses. Increasing your bodyweight is the secret to getting bigger arms. At least for a beginner.

Just be prepared to reset your benchpress a few times while you go for linear gains on your squat, dead, and overhead press.

JT111
03-05-2011, 05:22 PM
The one I layed out is easier to follow than the straight up madcow 5x5 you were doing.

If you want a slightly less optimal program, then do SL 5x5 and add dips and chinups to wherever you want. You could pair the dips with bench days and chinups with deadlift days. It really doesn't matter. It's more of a volume consideration. And yes, your arms will bulk up from rows and presses. Increasing your bodyweight is the secret to getting bigger arms. At least for a beginner.

Just be prepared to reset your benchpress a few times while you go for linear gains on your squat, dead, and overhead press.

Sure, whats less optimal about the SL5x5? out of curiosity.

JT111
03-05-2011, 05:26 PM
Sure, whats less optimal about the SL5x5? out of curiosity.

oh also, what sort of RM? say my max is 200 for squat, would i do 200 5 times or 190 instead?

RichMcGuire
03-05-2011, 06:56 PM
Sure, whats less optimal about the SL5x5? out of curiosity.

Less optimal because of your benchpress. You'll have to deload your bench or figure something out with it.

RichMcGuire
03-05-2011, 06:58 PM
oh also, what sort of RM? say my max is 200 for squat, would i do 200 5 times or 190 instead?

if 200 is your 5rm, you wont be able to do 5 sets with it. Just give yourself some room to grow. In that example, you might go for 185 and get all 5 sets of 5 and add weight each time you can.

JT111
03-06-2011, 07:44 AM
Less optimal because of your benchpress. You'll have to deload your bench or figure something out with it.

Cool, i guess i could just increase my bench once every two weeks then my other body parts would overtake with the extra 5lbs per workout. Hopefully not wasted 4 weeks on the madcow :S.. I 've certainly increased my squat but i guess on SL it would of come quicker..
Thanks alot for your help!

NITF
06-04-2011, 10:37 AM
And that is why we recommend the strength routine over the hypertrophy routine for guys like you, because you just won't have enough strength to make hypertrophy work that well yet. Spend some time building the strength and eating, that will build muscle, and will make the hypertrophy work more productive later.

It's a long process, but you have to go through it. My personal opinion, and we can debate this, but I think a typical guy should be able to press 150 for 5 reps, bench 250 for 5 reps, squat/deadlift 350 for 5 reps, and increase their recovery and work capacity before switching to a pure hypertrophy routine. Ya, I stole that from Iron Addict, but I agree with it 100%.

That's an interesting premise. I'm not really sure I understand why this would be the case though. Why would hypertrophy training not work for someone who hasn't trained for strenght before? Wouldn't the only difference be that the weights being lifted would be lighter? That shouldn't really matter since whatever wt being lifted is still in the appropriate RM range. Maybe I'm missing something?

Off Road
06-04-2011, 11:06 AM
That's an interesting premise. I'm not really sure I understand why this would be the case though. Why would hypertrophy training not work for someone who hasn't trained for strenght before? Wouldn't the only difference be that the weights being lifted would be lighter? That shouldn't really matter since whatever wt being lifted is still in the appropriate RM range. Maybe I'm missing something?
Because getting stronger teaches you to use more available muscle fibers, thus making the lifts more productive. This is accomplished much faster by working with basic compound movements in a low to moderate rep range.

JT111
06-06-2011, 03:40 AM
This is quite an old post, i did SL 5x5 for 3 months and made outstanding progress. Gained great size all over! Currently cutting down and hitting this program again, highly recommended! Thank you to everyone who contributed!

joey54
06-07-2011, 09:17 AM
What are your squats and deadlift at now?

JT111
06-07-2011, 11:22 AM
What are your squats and deadlift at now?

Squat up from 80kg 5x5 - 120 5x5
Dead 1RM up from 120kg - 190kg

made this in about 10-12 weeks, was really pleased! Bench also increased from 95kg 5x5 - 115kg 5x5

So impressed with the program.

JT111
06-07-2011, 11:23 AM
Squat up from 80kg 5x5 - 120 5x5
Dead 1RM up from 120kg - 190kg

made this in about 10-12 weeks, was really pleased! Bench also increased from 95kg 5x5 - 115kg 5x5

So impressed with the program.

Note: I did increase the weight on every lift EVERY workout, this forced progress and for me to grit teeth and lift. No doubt this helped me achieve these results!

joey54
06-07-2011, 06:21 PM
So about jumps of 85 and 150 lbs respectively.

Off Road
06-07-2011, 06:49 PM
Congrats on the progress.

JT111
06-08-2011, 02:10 AM
So about jumps of 85 and 150 lbs respectively.

Yeah i was thrilled with the progress could feel it every week!

I gained a good 8-10 pounds in the 10 weeks, I had a high cal diet around 3500 cals (750-1000 above maintenance aprox so im not sure how much was pure muscle.

I added in a mix of chinups dips and pull ups on mondays and fridays from the original program.

Was very very happy this this program, noticed massive leg growth during the program! The 5x5 on squats seriously pays off! This program also taught me the importance of compounds, (before this i was just a gym rat and pretty uncoordinated). I stalled after 3 months and just couldnt keep up. I kept my weights and made slow progress for 2-3 weeks after that, I'm just about to give HCT a go for 12 weeks then ill run it again with smaller increases (every week or so)

JT111
06-08-2011, 02:11 AM
Congrats on the progress.

Thanks Off Road! - Also thanks for the advice in the first place, really made a difference!

yayeti
06-11-2011, 02:40 PM
can you give a sample diet while you made these gains?

also based on your example i want to give this a try. Could i replace bench press with incline bench press becaause I think my upper chest is lagging, or would this be dumb? Im guessing u didnt start the program with just the barbell. How far below your 5RM did u start each exercise?

JT111
06-12-2011, 04:40 AM
can you give a sample diet while you made these gains?

also based on your example i want to give this a try. Could i replace bench press with incline bench press becaause I think my upper chest is lagging, or would this be dumb? Im guessing u didnt start the program with just the barbell. How far below your 5RM did u start each exercise?

Hey there Yayeti!

Firstly, I AM NOT AN EXPERT WHAT SO EVER! I am just a 'gym rat' and i take a majority of my advice from this forum! Here you get honest advice, no broscience or bullshit, so i would highly recommend asking the other users here. However here is my experience / advice based on what i did.

RE: Sample Diet.

Im going to be honest.. I didn't follow anything strict! I was careful about what i ate, but not amounts ect. My BMR is around 2800 so i was aiming for 3500ish per day for a nice excess. I was eating all the right foods and just watching the scales. However, I did count protein and aimed for 250-300 per day. Towards the end i was drinking a ton of milk because i am a student and its a very cheap 1300ish cals (semi skimmed). So for me, nothing was strict but i DIDNT eat shit just the usual recommended foods (BR, Chicken, good fats ect), & i did monitor the scales plus made sure i was in range each day for my 3500.

RE: Work out
I wouldnt recommend swapping the bench at all. I am fortunate with my chest, it's full and grows very well (hence the bench / squat ratio to some extent). The only exercise i have focused on in my year of lifting for my chest is bench press, and i have pushed and pushed to lift heavier and heavier. I would recommend you keep with bench and keep pushing and pushing!

This is exactly what i was doing...

ABA

A
Squat 5x5
Bench 5x5
Rows 5x5

(Mondays)
I would then add in a superset of...
Chins 3x5
Dips 3x5

& then maybe 1-2 sets of an arm movement if i felt like it / had time ( try and keep under an hour, plus REALISE THE IMPORTANT OF COMPOUND MOVEMENTS! dont spend your time doing a shit load of isolation)

B

Squats 5x5
Press 5x5
Deadlift 1x5

(wednesdays)

I would either run or keep this one shorter around 45 minutes.

The workout would then repeat A

Fridays i would usually hits chin ups, and dips again with 5 sets this time, and maybe hit 1-2 sets of either bar curls or french presses. This is because you get an extra day recovery and i enjoyed hitting these hard after the compounds.

Then you would start with B again.. Ect

RE: Starting the program

I didnt start from the bar. I got my 5RM and took away a fair bit of weight, obviously this depends on the movement. For squats i took away around 20-30kg, bench i took away 10-20, deadlifts was around 30kg, press i took away around 15-20, and rows i also took 15-20. This probably isnt the best approach lol! but i took the weight down to something that i could easy handle, make sure form is very good ect and make long term progress on! I made an excel sheet with a 2.5kg increase each session, this gave me good targets and helped me push hard (especially in weeks 9-12). Towards then end of this program it gets very very very tough to make progress, I'd come back here and ask guys what they think, Madcow may be worth a shot if your ready for it.

I hope this helps! I think the most important thing this progress teaches you is that compounds are key, and these 5 lifts WORK you DO NOT NEED STUPID ISOLATIONS!!!! The heavier you get on here the more you prgress and you can see it coming on, ESPECIALLY with squats! jesus did my legs grow! Another thing it shows is the fact that workouts dont need to be complex! (albeit i slightly modified it).

Please remember to ask other guys on here, they are far more knowledgable than me, good luck with the program!!!