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mrunknown
05-20-2002, 04:29 PM
are sweetners bad for you like stuff in diet coke, diet ice tea, or anything with citric acid or asparatnae

are they bad if your trying to lose weight

Paul Stagg
05-24-2002, 09:52 AM
Probably not.

ericg
05-24-2002, 02:21 PM
i use stevia for coffee and tea, great stuff, no effect on blood sugar levels at all.

Prelude
05-24-2002, 02:31 PM
Does artificial sugars like aspartame, stevia, and splenda have any bad effect while on CKD? I heard somewhere that aspartame acts like regular sugar when inside your system. Not sure how true that is.

Clark
05-24-2002, 09:01 PM
if you're talking short term I don't think they do anything aside from sweeten the flavour (ie no insulin spike), but if you're thinking long term I sweeteners do have detrimental effects

Clark
05-24-2002, 09:07 PM
http://www.nexusmagazine.com/Aspartame.html

don't know if this'll help, or even how much is exactly true, but can't hurt to read it

Vido
05-25-2002, 02:00 PM
Aspartame has been linked to over 100 health-related problems ranging from acute toxicity to chronic toxicity. So yes, they are bad.
In addition, I would hope that you are not consuming any pop or iced tea while trying to cut anyway.

Alex.V
05-25-2002, 02:01 PM
No. They're not bad.

btw, life has been found to be the leading cause of death. And oprah has been linked to cancer.

mrunknown
05-25-2002, 04:58 PM
im cutting but ill drink like a diet coke a day a regular bottle the 20 ounce

SweetP
05-25-2002, 06:02 PM
Originally posted by mrunknown
im cutting but ill drink like a diet coke a day a regular bottle the 20 ounce



tuttut How about say 20oz of water instead? :clap:

mrunknown
05-25-2002, 07:41 PM
a drink 1.5 gallons a day

mrunknown
05-25-2002, 07:41 PM
of water

Clark
05-25-2002, 07:50 PM
i think you should be closer to 2 or 3 gallons per day if you're cutting.....never stop drinking water

Prelude
05-26-2002, 10:45 PM
I drink diet RC, no aspartame but it has splenda. Good for cutting or just substitute water? The reason I drink is when I crave something sweet while on CKD.

Behemoth
05-27-2002, 12:58 PM
Aspartame has been linked to over 100 health-related problems ranging from acute toxicity to chronic toxicity. So yes, they are bad.

Your joking right? Unless your competing (even skeptical there), what reason would the 0 calorie, 0 effect on raising your blood sugar level possibly have to deter your cutting phase from it's fullest results?

Vido
05-28-2002, 11:10 AM
Originally posted by TryingToBeBig


Your joking right? Unless your competing (even skeptical there), what reason would the 0 calorie, 0 effect on raising your blood sugar level possibly have to deter your cutting phase from it's fullest results?

Sorry guy we're talking about 2 different things here. I didn't say that artificial sweeteners didn't help you cut. They are linked to problems internally, not externally. "Aspartame has been reported to have numerous physiological and medical consequences, such as decreased vision, pain in the eyes, ringing in the ears, hearing impairment, headache, dizziness and unsteadiness, confusion, memory loss, drowsiness, slurring of speech, numbness and tingling, tremors, depression, irritability, aggression, anxiety, insomnia, phobias, heart palpitations, shortness of breath, high blood pressure, nausea, diarrhea, abdominal pain, itching, hives, menstrual changes, weight gain, hair thinning, urinary burning, excessive thirst, fluid retention, bloating, increased infection, and even death." That was a brief excerpt from a research essay I did at university this past year and only covers a few of the many problems associated with aspartame use.
I personally cannot believe your naievty when it came to my original comment. I mean why not use roids as well if you're looking for your "fullest results". Many things that help you look better don't help you much in the health department.

Paul Stagg
05-28-2002, 11:21 AM
"Has been linked" doesn't mean much. Neither does 'has been reported'.

Where is the evidence showing a causal relationship?

ElPietro
05-28-2002, 11:28 AM
Some journalists just need a story...and it's easy to get people hyped up and paranoid over something and not provide a shred of evidence backing their statements up.

You'd probably starve to death if you refrained from eating anything that has been linked to a bad health warning...

How many people still think creatine is a steroid? I'm guessing a very large percentage of non-lifters...yet there isn't anything backing that up either...

Paul Stagg
05-29-2002, 04:15 PM
I'm quite certain we won't be provided with any.

Paul Stagg
06-06-2002, 08:54 AM
Still waiting for someone to back up what Vito posted.

raniali
06-06-2002, 08:59 AM
I have read numerous things that aspartame (not sure about Splenda) can kick you out of ketosis if too much is ingested. What too much is depends on the person, I guess.

ericg
06-06-2002, 10:56 AM
Originally posted by Prelude
Does artificial sugars like aspartame, stevia, and splenda have any bad effect while on CKD? I heard somewhere that aspartame acts like regular sugar when inside your system. Not sure how true that is.

Stevia is not artificial, it is an extract from plants. All natural. no effect on blood sugar levels at all. There are a couple good website out there on it, and there have been some threads on it before.

http://www.stevia.net/

there are some others as well

Prelude
06-06-2002, 11:04 AM
Will aspartame, stevia, spenda, etc. kick you out of ketosis?

Paul Stagg
06-06-2002, 11:29 AM
Nope. Why would they?

The thought was that citric acid in diet colas might... but I'm not aware of how, or if, that's actually true.

I drank diet coke while keto dieting (a lot of it), and had no trouble getting into or staying in ketosis.

g-dot
06-06-2002, 12:26 PM
I can't believe how naive everyone in this thread is other than Vido. Judging by the fact no one here has decided to go *gasp* look for themselves to find out legitimate information on the topic I'll give you the simple answer to the question that was asked. Aspartame IS bad for you. That's the bottom line answer. Are there numerous factors involved in how it will affect you? The asnwer is yes. I know people will jump on this thread and demand citations and research proving this and theres lots out there, and personally I'd be more than willing to pull out 10 or so peer reviewed publications to prove my point if it weren't for the fact that I'm home for the summer from school and don't have access to their subscriptions to countless academic journals. I took the liberty of including a website that cites information taken from studies on aspartame that I came upon in a quick search. I don't have to prove to myself that aspartame is bad, but perhaps for the people out there putting it into their bodies in large quantities they should look into a few things first before making hasty conclusions.

http://www.holisticmed.com/aspartame/aspfaq.html

(No that is not the end all to be all of research on aspartame but frankly its my summer break and i have better things to do than go run about finding 100 studies)

*By the way for anyone wanting to look into aspartame seriously I suggest you look at the manufacturing process (it's made under refridgeration) because the compound breaks down into formaldehyde when exposed to higher temperatures (even at room temperature).

Vido
06-06-2002, 12:33 PM
Thank-you g-dot. It's about time someone got their head out of their ass and actually made a statement that can be backed by some research, not just personal opinion.

Paul Stagg
06-06-2002, 12:49 PM
LMAO

'Holisticmed.com' THAT's going to be a reliable source. Might as well use 'vegan.org' to show how eating meat is bad for you.

Tip offs:

'May cause'
'Reported'

The first link - the 'Reported' effects, has glaring issues from teh get go.

First they discuss acute toxic reactions by discussing a study on 551 people who 'reported' toxic reactions after ingesting aspartame. Right off the bat, this is meaningless. I had aspartame today, and I have an itch on my forehead. I'm reporting it. Absolutely meaningless without some explanation of the reaction, and of course, there is none. No definition of the levels of ingestion are given. Worthless.

Then, they discuss pilots, and again, not a shred of actual evidence of any problem.

They mention that aspartame toxicity is frequently misdiagnosed (with no supporting documentation) - perhaps that's because all of the effects are general and could be attributed to a host of causes?

They have a list of things that 'may be caused or worsened'. No explanation, no studies showing HOW it happens.

This incredibly stupid site suggests that reported = caused. Simply not true.

There is not a shred of actual evidence cited on that page.

No study, ever, has shown a causal relationship between artificial sweeteners and any illness. No one, as far as I know, has ever explained HOW aspartame would cause any illness.

Nice try, though.

ElPietro
06-06-2002, 01:14 PM
Where is Matt with his crowbar when you need him. Wake up you hung-over redneck!

ElPietro
06-06-2002, 01:16 PM
Oh and I wonder how many of those half-assed studies were funded by the sugar manufacturers...

Fudomyo
06-06-2002, 01:17 PM
Cut-n-pasted

Aspartame is made by joining two natural amino acids, aspartic acid and phenylalanine, and a tiny amount of methanol (the methanol thing must be where this "wood alcohol" started). What some people don't realize is that methanol is found naturally in the body and in many fruits and vegetables. Methanol is produced in the body through normal metabolism of many different foods. In fact, a glass of tomato juice provides 6 times as much methanol as a typical diet drink sweetened with aspartame.

Another thing that aspartame critics don't seem to realize is that aspartame itself never enters the bloodstream. It is digested like any other protein. After digestion, the individual components are absorbed and utilized by the body. It's physiologically impossible for aspartame to ever enter the bloodstream much less permeate the blood-brain barrier.

Myself, I don't see how two amino acids could be the cause of these hundreds of problems.

Fudo

The_Chicken_Daddy
06-06-2002, 01:37 PM
Let's also think about how much of the sweetner is actually in diet soda, and also, how much you'd put on your oats etc...

djr5901
06-06-2002, 02:33 PM
a wise man once said....everything in moderation

but, if you can, just stick to water bro

g-dot
06-06-2002, 02:35 PM
Paul Stagg,


No study, ever, has shown a causal relationship between artificial sweeteners and any illness. No one, as far as I know, has ever explained HOW aspartame would cause any illness.

The suggested method of causation for illness is formaldehyde poisoning. In reply to the rest of your post I said that, that website is NOT the end all to be all of evidence and merely suggested it as a place to start. As I stated in my first post I'm not in the position to obtain credible peer reviewed journals because I'm away from school for the summer. I suggested that people look into it themselves because I personally believe that aspartame is not a good sugar substitute. I suffer headaches when I consume the sweetner in any considerable quantity and that is why I myself do not use any product with it. That being said this isn't meant to be a post bashing people that use the sweetner, I intend to shed some light on the situation because everyone has merely replied that they are not bad. The bottom line here is they aren't good. In no way am I trying to say that taking them in lieu of sugar is the same as taking arsenic or any other MORE toxic substance, but what I am trying to say is that they are not free from their problems.

People have adopted an attitude that because it's in products it must be safe, etc. and from an anecdotal stand point you could certainly use sugar free products your entire life and never see any negative side effects BUT that is not the case for all people.

In reply to Fudomyo's comment that
Myself, I don't see how two amino acids could be the cause of these hundreds of

I can't say anything other than how absurd a generalization that is with regard to the chemistry of a substance. In a molecular sense the absolute configuration of a given molecule can have DRASTICALLY different results on the human body so saying if A and B are harmless then A+B is also harmless is a severely flawed line of logic. If you don't believe me on that consider Thalidomide which was widely used in the 70s/80s as a cure for morning sickness in pregnant women. One configuration (R or S) relieved morning sickness, the other configuration caused severe birth defects.

This argument can go on infinitely because other than Paul Stagg and Vido, everyone is speaking in anecdotes which don't mean anything at all.

Clark
06-06-2002, 02:38 PM
*applause for G-dot*

ElPietro
06-06-2002, 02:41 PM
Originally posted by g-dot
This argument can go on infinitely because other than Paul Stagg and Vido, everyone is speaking in anecdotes which don't mean anything at all.

Until there is any actual evidence presented as to aspartame being harmful, I don't see why there is an argument at all.

Clark
06-06-2002, 02:43 PM
Do you think just because aspartame is linked to all these problems then it's merely a coincidence? Of course not. It is bad for you, end of story. I believe G-dot made a great point when he said just because A and B are harmless by themselves doesn't mean they'lll be harmless when combined. Thinking that way is just ignorant.

ElPietro
06-06-2002, 02:50 PM
LMAO! I don't know why I bother today. So Clark you are saying that all these alleged instances are all absolutely correct, and they are all caused by aspartame, even though not one shred of proof has been presented to you...so now it is fact and you have made you conclusion that it is bad based on hearsay from unknown sources. Then you go on to say that we are thinking ignorantly? :rolleyes:

It's thought processes like that led to people being put under house arrest for saying the world is round.

g-dot
06-06-2002, 02:51 PM
ElPietro, there are numerous studies on the dangers of aspartame. I don't need to bash my head on a table trying to hammer this point home that there are risks involved in taking the substance. Obviously a lot of people REFUSE to acknowledge the risks and possible side effects that result from consumption and that's their own problem. If YOU need so much to convince you that the it's not a perfectly safe substance than I highly suggest that YOU go and research it yourself. Out of personal interest I have read numerous studies on problems related to aspartame ranging from an increased incidence of brain cancer to things as simple as gastrointestinal problems and headaches. I made an educated choice not to use aspartame and chose to eliminate soda from my diet entirely. What you or anyone else choose to do is your business, but before you blindly make a stance on a issue perhaps you and everyone else involved with the exception of a few, should go do some work yourself and make an educated stance. I frankly don't have enough money to waste on registering personally to get articles from the New England Journal of Medicine and the AMA, especially when I can get them free when I'm at school, just to prove to you that there are health risks associated with aspartame use.

Clark
06-06-2002, 02:54 PM
EP, I'm not saying everything ever said is absolutely true, I'm merely saying that consuming aspartame carries an inherant risk. Do you hear of people complaining about these problems from consuming too much tuna? No. So if you want to take it go ahead, but don't whine to me when you start feeling the side effects.

Paul Stagg
06-07-2002, 07:37 AM
I can not locate a single study showing any 'dangers' of aspartame.

I could list a host of general malaise (like what has been done with aspartame) and link it to just about anything.

The same number of people who eat carrots get sick as those who eat aspartame. Better stop eating carrots.

Anyone remenber Dihydrogen monoxide? I had the website as a bookmark, but lost it.

None of the evidence provided specifies the DOSE. If you eat a pound of aspartame, will you get sick? How about the milligrams in a soda?

Ultimately, it's up to you weather you want to use it or not. I do. I use a lot of it. I've seen nothing to make me change my mind.

*I'm going to drop out of this conversation now. I'm not exactly impartial, and don't want that to cloud the discussion. If this gets out of hand, or if any more insults get hurled, the thread will be gone.*