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jAy_Dub
03-27-2011, 05:13 PM
Here a few shots from today. Sitting around 203 lbs. Definitely gotta lose another 5 to make the light heavy class I'm thinking.

Still got some ab fat I need to get rid of. I'm working with a guy whos done some NANBF state shows in the area with my posing. Definitely a big help. I gotta work on that from here out with posing being my main focus.

http://a7.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/188871_10150121708860098_500475097_6756957_2455920_n.jpg

http://a8.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/200316_10150121708900098_500475097_6756958_2309926_n.jpg

http://a7.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/199753_10150121708940098_500475097_6756960_5937527_n.jpg

http://a3.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/200167_10150121709005098_500475097_6756962_7948662_n.jpg[/QUOTE]

chevelle2291
03-27-2011, 05:16 PM
Lookin good Jay.

Invain
03-27-2011, 05:24 PM
You look great man. A tan will make you look twice as lean lol.

f=ma
03-28-2011, 05:12 AM
looking awesome jay. the tan will def help, its so bright you almost look washed out.. but youre clearly lean as fukkk. you're going to look like a giant next to most of your competitiion!!

Behemoth
03-28-2011, 09:20 AM
Looking real good jay. The peak week + tan will have you looking extrmely competitive. Speaking of peak week, do you know what alexs plan is?

chevelle2291
03-28-2011, 12:16 PM
Jay, what do you do for your legs---quads/hams specifically? That VMO is insane.

Time+Patience
03-28-2011, 12:36 PM
Vascularity is outstanding, especially in the legs. Definition is solid as hail, lean and on point.

How has your posing been going? With how lean you are I'd assume that your hams should be very diced up, but with how you pose them it doesn't allow for that to show through. I would think that you should focus on squeezing the glutes together and then tighten your hamstrings allowing for all of the lines to come through.

It's very tough to hold your glutes and hamstrings during the rear shots and it's a good idea to become comfortable with being able to have each leg back individually as you can cramp up easily if you keep the same leg back for the rear lat spread and the back double bi.

Also you may want to try different variations of hitting your back double bi shot. You may want to take a few shots where you bring your arms down a bit. I've seen it be recommended to keep them a bit higher, but I don't see the point when doing the back shot? When you bring your arms down so that they are more parallel to the ground it will allow for more of your back muscles to come out and would help with the lower back and getting the detail to show through better.

When I try to flare my lats out more by bringing my arms up it makes my back double bi look worse, so I keep my arms down, there will be less lat width, but it can show a greater amount of detail, and helps show the christmas tree better even in that shot.

killxswitch
03-28-2011, 01:58 PM
Looking super lean. Good luck with this final push.

KIBBLES N BITS
03-28-2011, 03:11 PM
Looking awesome man, you're going to look incredible once you get a tan going on (no homo). As others have said the legs are looking unreal.

I have a ton of respect for what you're doing, I realize how hard the dieting and cardio can be. Final push now though so keep going !

jAy_Dub
03-29-2011, 03:36 PM
Looking real good jay. The peak week + tan will have you looking extrmely competitive. Speaking of peak week, do you know what alexs plan is?

I dont know quite yet, he said he wont know until he can see what I look like at that point. He just said sodium and water manipulation with carb loading.


Jay, what do you do for your legs---quads/hams specifically? That VMO is insane.

Squats and more squats. Front and back, heavy as possible to failure or 1 short of failure. Right now I'm training legs twice a week (as with all body parts) and doing one set of squats per workout, 3 sets to failure. I usually do about 6 reps for my first set, drop the weight 10-20 percent, failure, drop another 10 percent and hit failure again. Short breaks in between sets but enough to catch my breath.


looking awesome jay. the tan will def help, its so bright you almost look washed out.. but youre clearly lean as fukkk. you're going to look like a giant next to most of your competitiion!!

Yeah I'm completely washed out in these pics. I'm actually pretty tan cuz everyone is asking me where I went on vacation. You can't be tan in the midwest without people making stupid comments and asking about it. I'm thinking I should move down where your at and I can be tan all year round :hello:


Vascularity is outstanding, especially in the legs. Definition is solid as hail, lean and on point.

How has your posing been going? With how lean you are I'd assume that your hams should be very diced up, but with how you pose them it doesn't allow for that to show through. I would think that you should focus on squeezing the glutes together and then tighten your hamstrings allowing for all of the lines to come through.

It's very tough to hold your glutes and hamstrings during the rear shots and it's a good idea to become comfortable with being able to have each leg back individually as you can cramp up easily if you keep the same leg back for the rear lat spread and the back double bi.

Also you may want to try different variations of hitting your back double bi shot. You may want to take a few shots where you bring your arms down a bit. I've seen it be recommended to keep them a bit higher, but I don't see the point when doing the back shot? When you bring your arms down so that they are more parallel to the ground it will allow for more of your back muscles to come out and would help with the lower back and getting the detail to show through better.

When I try to flare my lats out more by bringing my arms up it makes my back double bi look worse, so I keep my arms down, there will be less lat width, but it can show a greater amount of detail, and helps show the christmas tree better even in that shot.

Thanks for the tips bro, I'll definitely take it all into consideration. I'll admit I have a lot of work to do. I can do poses just fine but its being smooth inbetween poses and making it all flow well that I have to work on. I'll try those tweaks you mentioned though.


Looking super lean. Good luck with this final push.

Thanks


Looking awesome man, you're going to look incredible once you get a tan going on (no homo). As others have said the legs are looking unreal.

I have a ton of respect for what you're doing, I realize how hard the dieting and cardio can be. Final push now though so keep going !

Thanks KNB, no stopping me now

chevelle2291
03-29-2011, 05:36 PM
Jay, would you mind posting your split in a comprehensive fashion when you get a chance? I'm very curious. Sets/reps/ex. selection, etc.

joey54
03-29-2011, 07:46 PM
Looking on point and ready to roll. Good luck and have fun with the experience.

Time+Patience
03-29-2011, 09:05 PM
Thanks for the tips bro, I'll definitely take it all into consideration. I'll admit I have a lot of work to do. I can do poses just fine but its being smooth inbetween poses and making it all flow well that I have to work on. I'll try those tweaks you mentioned though.

A bodybuilding contest is all about manipulating your body to look its best. Some do the vaccum pose as it helps accentuate their lats, or it helps hide a weak point.

The back double biceps and rear lat spread are 2 poses that can vary drastically. On the back double biceps the idea of holding your arms up higher or keeping them closer to parallel to the ground can make a big difference. On the rear lat spread you can hunch over a bit more and help accentuate the width, or you can stay more upright and give your back more thickness.

My wife actually helped me out a bit last year with my posing! It could be a good idea to ask someone who has limited knowledge of BBing and what they would look for in a pose and ask for their input. Just go on ahead and find a grandma walking down the street and tell her that you need her advice on something, then proceed to take your shirt off and have her judge 2 different rear double biceps poses and ask her "which shot looks better?"

mchicia1
03-31-2011, 08:01 AM
Lookin good man, especially for being on the taller side. Good dedication.

Mark!
04-03-2011, 10:31 PM
I know I'm late to the party, but man you do look great. Can't wait to see show pics.

RBB
04-04-2011, 07:30 AM
Looking great, Jay. Lean and vascular even in the washed out photos. I agree, you'll look much better with a tan. Bro, you don't look like you've lost much size at all during your prep. Has your weight stayed pretty consistent?

jAy_Dub
04-04-2011, 10:06 PM
Jay, would you mind posting your split in a comprehensive fashion when you get a chance? I'm very curious. Sets/reps/ex. selection, etc.

No problem man. Its actually Phil Hernon's routine. For as big of a douche bag he is, I'll admit I love his setup. I literally got stronger during this prep, so I can only imagine how well it work with more cals to grow on... Here it is:

Day 1 Chest/Back/Calves

Dips or Decline Press 3 sets
Chins or Pulldown 3 sets
Bent Over Row(he likes dumbbells) 3 sets
Seated Calves 3 sets

Day 2 Legs
Back Squat or Front Squat 3 sets
Stiff Leg Dead or Lying Leg Curls 3 sets
Abs

Day 3
Lateral Raises 3 sets
Dumbbell or EZ Bar Curl 3 sets
Close Grip or Dips 3 sets
Standing Calves 3 sets

Day 4
off

Repeat

All the sets are done with a heaviest set in the 6-10 range and decreasing 10% for the subsequent sets. So a decline press workout might look like 250x7 225x10 205x12. Workouts are done quickly, only resting as long as needed to get your breath back.


Looking on point and ready to roll. Good luck and have fun with the experience.

Thanks Joey, looking forward to it.


A bodybuilding contest is all about manipulating your body to look its best. Some do the vaccum pose as it helps accentuate their lats, or it helps hide a weak point.

The back double biceps and rear lat spread are 2 poses that can vary drastically. On the back double biceps the idea of holding your arms up higher or keeping them closer to parallel to the ground can make a big difference. On the rear lat spread you can hunch over a bit more and help accentuate the width, or you can stay more upright and give your back more thickness.

My wife actually helped me out a bit last year with my posing! It could be a good idea to ask someone who has limited knowledge of BBing and what they would look for in a pose and ask for their input. Just go on ahead and find a grandma walking down the street and tell her that you need her advice on something, then proceed to take your shirt off and have her judge 2 different rear double biceps poses and ask her "which shot looks better?"

Once I feel comfortable enough I'm going to post up a vid this week and I'd like to get your input :) The grandma thing made me laugh lol


Lookin good man, especially for being on the taller side. Good dedication.

Thanks, been a long road


I know I'm late to the party, but man you do look great. Can't wait to see show pics.

I'll have my girl take lots :)


Looking great, Jay. Lean and vascular even in the washed out photos. I agree, you'll look much better with a tan. Bro, you don't look like you've lost much size at all during your prep. Has your weight stayed pretty consistent?

Thanks Russ. My weight has stayed very consistent. I've been around 205 for the past few weeks and I was getting nervous because my weight wasnt dropping at all but this week I was down to 202 (mostly water with some small tweaks). Obviously I gotta get down to 198 to make light heavies, but with 2 weeks left that should be easy. Other than on my really bad days where I feel like absolute shit, my strength has actually been increasing on some lifts. Really the only two that havent increased are my heavy squats and rows.

chevelle2291
04-04-2011, 10:51 PM
Why do you think Hernon is a douche? I'm curious.

jAy_Dub
04-04-2011, 11:19 PM
Why do you think Hernon is a douche? I'm curious.

Cookie cutter diet he gives to all paying clients. You get this routine and him telling you to eat when hungry, buy his lbas, and dont ask any questions, for $250.

He's a huge scam artist over on another forum I go to and doesnt give a shit about anything but making money. I could go on and on with specifics but I just dont have enough time lol.

chevelle2291
04-05-2011, 12:55 AM
Cookie cutter diet he gives to all paying clients. You get this routine and him telling you to eat when hungry, buy his lbas, and dont ask any questions, for $250.

He's a huge scam artist over on another forum I go to and doesnt give a shit about anything but making money. I could go on and on with specifics but I just dont have enough time lol.

Yea, that's kind of the stuff I've heard to. He's a god at PM tho.

RBB
04-05-2011, 06:58 AM
Cookie cutter diet he gives to all paying clients. You get this routine and him telling you to eat when hungry, buy his lbas, and dont ask any questions, for $250.

He's a huge scam artist over on another forum I go to and doesnt give a shit about anything but making money. I could go on and on with specifics but I just dont have enough time lol.

Agreed. I always see his "eat only when hungry" posts and just laugh. How many guys do you know that could actually grow doing that? I sure as hell couldn't.

jAy_Dub
04-05-2011, 09:40 AM
Yea, that's kind of the stuff I've heard to. He's a god at PM tho.

Thats the "other forum" I was referring to. A lot of guys over there are willing to get down on their knees for him but if all his little followers put up pics of themselves about 90% of their physiques would be laughable at best. Occasionally you'll have a guy with a fantastic build giving Phil some credit (like Brad Davis) but the majority of his minions are mindless idiots looking for a discount.

jAy_Dub
04-05-2011, 09:44 AM
Agreed. I always see his "eat only when hungry" posts and just laugh. How many guys do you know that could actually grow doing that? I sure as hell couldn't.

Only time that *might* work is if I was running a gram of EQ or something lol

But no according to Phil all you gotta do is use his training routine, eat when hungry (a certain macro of literally fruit, olive/coconut oil, chicken/fish and of course his lba's), and at most 250mg of test a week and you'll be a monster.

RBB
04-05-2011, 10:18 AM
Only time that *might* work is if I was running a gram of EQ or something lol

But no according to Phil all you gotta do is use his training routine, eat when hungry (a certain macro of literally fruit, olive/coconut oil, chicken/fish and of course his lba's), and at most 250mg of test a week and you'll be a monster.

Yes, of course. The key ingedient being his LBA's....you'll never put on any size without them. Did you actually try his diet? I'm guessing you weren't too impressed with it if you did.

jAy_Dub
04-06-2011, 06:53 PM
Na RBB, never did his diet thankfully. Just have talked to a few guys that did.

10 days out here, the last pic shows my ab fat that is really pissing me off. Other than the fat covering my abs I'm happy with my condition. I dont see much changing from here on out though. Who knows, Alex said to send him pics this sat and we'll make changes as he sees necessary. He said he doesnt want me to lose any size just to lose that last bit of fat so no changes right now.


http://a2.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/208080_10150148673395098_500475097_6826018_3457313_n.jpg

http://a8.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/207668_10150148673215098_500475097_6826012_1212089_n.jpg

http://a2.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/216311_10150148673245098_500475097_6826013_8169068_n.jpg

http://a5.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/206264_10150148673305098_500475097_6826015_7976814_n.jpg

http://a1.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/216795_10150148673360098_500475097_6826017_8216381_n.jpg

http://a6.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/216847_10150148673175098_500475097_6826011_7921398_n.jpg[/QUOTE]

Auzzie
04-06-2011, 09:17 PM
i know its all relative but DUDE, you're pretty damn ripped and built like a brick shit house... you've obviously put in the work!

Time+Patience
04-16-2011, 03:36 PM
I will bump this up to the top for fun.

We are waiting......

Mark!
04-17-2011, 04:19 AM
How'd it go Jay? You looked great in all the photos.

jAy_Dub
04-18-2011, 12:13 AM
Alright guys here were the results.

I still dont know what to think about what ended up happening with Alex but the results were good nonetheless. I ended up not making weight, so I was stuck in the heavies. I'll elaborate on the whole story later, I'm exhausted right now. Classes were small, there were no Novice classes at all but it was like being in a novice category... I got first place in the Iowa NPC Open heavy division, out of 2 guys total lol. Then I got 2nd place in the Midwest Open out of 7 guys total I believe. The guy who beat me was a fucking monster. He looked like muscled up gremlin lol. The pics really dont do him justice, this guy was HUGE. He was talking about how he was pulling high 800's in deads. The dude is built perfectly to pull some crazy weight.

Heres some pictures. I have TON so I'll post them all up tomorrow.

http://a6.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/206289_10150157268480098_500475097_6906003_4183187_n.jpg

http://a7.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/207081_10150157268515098_500475097_6906004_1854622_n.jpg

http://a1.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/221952_10150157268565098_500475097_6906005_4004647_n.jpg

Heres some from the overall.

http://a4.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/208249_10150157269645098_500475097_6906035_6104633_n.jpg

http://a7.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/208101_10150157269710098_500475097_6906038_1050319_n.jpg

http://a4.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/207029_10150157269795098_500475097_6906040_7179068_n.jpg

Repping AtLarge with my awesome girl. She really enjoyed the experience as well.

http://a8.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/222040_10150157269860098_500475097_6906042_2648380_n.jpg

French toast, pancakes, bacon, eggs, and the super steak omelet at IHop afterwards. Only the beginning to the massive binge that has taken place since the show ended last night at 11. I weighed in at 202, and am currently weighing 225 LOL. 23 lbs gained in a 24 hour period. Mission accomplished ;) I now have kancles too.

http://a3.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/216944_10150157269930098_500475097_6906044_7808398_n.jpg

I got a ton more pics to come.

chevelle2291
04-18-2011, 01:06 AM
Hell yea dude good shit!

ThomasG
04-18-2011, 05:27 AM
Congratulations Jay!! Have you been bitten by the bug?

Mark!
04-18-2011, 06:17 AM
That's some bad ass stuff Jay! And nice gain afterwards, haha. Totally awesome bro, congrats.

ThomasG
04-18-2011, 07:53 AM
What happened with Alex?

KIBBLES N BITS
04-18-2011, 11:53 AM
Nice f'ing choice on the Ihop, place is amazing...I hope to god they were doing endless pancakes when you were there, probably close to being in heaven haha...

Congrats too on making it to the show, true showing of amazing discipline, willpower and dedication, I admire it. Can't wait to see what happens from here

Irish Pilot
04-18-2011, 12:45 PM
What happened with Alex?

This


Nice f'ing choice on the Ihop, place is amazing.....

This.

You looked fantastic bud. Congrats on the show as well as putting in the work to achieve that level of leanness! Well done!

Invain
04-18-2011, 01:10 PM
Congrats bro. Takes a lotta guts to get on stage and you looked fucking awesome to boot!

Behemoth
04-18-2011, 05:00 PM
Congratulations Jay. You deserve the glory from all your hard work!

cphafner
04-18-2011, 06:23 PM
You looked awesome man. That little guy was jacked, but his color sucked. Just my opinion, you can look great, but I think you need to take a year off and come in a bigger heavy weight. You are really tall right? 6 foot+? Nonetheless, condition was great.

jAy_Dub
04-19-2011, 10:31 AM
Hell yea dude good shit!

Thanks chevelle


Congratulations Jay!! Have you been bitten by the bug?

It was a great experience but I wont be up on stage again anytime soon. This got me the experience, I now know what to expect in the future. Now its time to get as big as possible.


That's some bad ass stuff Jay! And nice gain afterwards, haha. Totally awesome bro, congrats.

Thanks Mark, I wouldnt advise eating like I did afterwards, I'm still recovering lol.


What happened with Alex?

So I had been talking with Alex obviously the last few days up until the show. He knew my weight exactly, at times of each day and what I was eating. He told me we'd have no problem making weight. So when I was weighing 200 at my lowest while carb depleted and he said we'd have no problem getting down to 198 carbed up I was a little skeptical but he siad to trust him and not worry. Well I carbed up and cut water, my weight was 205 all afternoon on friday and up until midnight. I was stressing out, we even went to wal mart and got a brand new scale to make sure it was accurate. Sure enough 205. So I emailed him and let him know I was still 205 at midnight, and he told me I was a heavyweight! The whole time he had been saying I HAD to make weight but when he realized it wasnt happening he told me to eat up (carbs) and to not worry, heavyweights are sloppier and not as tight as the light heavies.

I was extremely pissed off to say the least. I called up Chris (big guy whos won this show before) and told him what was up. He said I could take diuretics of some sort but it would probably ruin my condition and I'd come in flat and depleted. So I said screw it and went with it and these were the results. I'll post up a pic of the light heavies, the class had wayyy more people but I still think the results would have been the same. It would have been a more respectable placing though... Oh well.

Afterwards Alex says he told me that because regardless if I made weight or not if I had been thinking in the back of my mind that I was a heavy I may have been a little more laid back with my diet and came in at a higher weight with less conditioning. He said he wanted me at my best, regardless of my class. It makes sense, but he could have saved me much stress by being upfront to begin with and tell me that I may not make it. Oh well.



Nice f'ing choice on the Ihop, place is amazing...I hope to god they were doing endless pancakes when you were there, probably close to being in heaven haha...

Congrats too on making it to the show, true showing of amazing discipline, willpower and dedication, I admire it. Can't wait to see what happens from here

IHop was amazing bro lol. Nothing would have tasted better at that point, they didnt have endless pancakes but I had multiple orders so I got my fill ;)


This



This.

You looked fantastic bud. Congrats on the show as well as putting in the work to achieve that level of leanness! Well done!

Thanks Irish!


Congrats bro. Takes a lotta guts to get on stage and you looked fucking awesome to boot!

Thanks man, I always thought I'd be nervous as hell up there, but when you put in the work that it takes to stand on that stage, I was actually completely calm. It was surprising because I've always had issues with any sort of mass crowd public attention.


Congratulations Jay. You deserve the glory from all your hard work!

Thanks bro, now we just gotta get your ass up there!


You looked awesome man. That little guy was jacked, but his color sucked. Just my opinion, you can look great, but I think you need to take a year off and come in a bigger heavy weight. You are really tall right? 6 foot+? Nonetheless, condition was great.

Yeah the short guy told me he put on one coat of some weird brand of tanning stuff on. Just one coat got him that dark! He was black when he wasnt in the lights lol. I definitely will take atleast a year off, I dont plan on competing again for a long time. Size size size is the only thing on my mind from here on out. I'd love to be competitive at the top of the heavy weight class if I do it again, at a much bigger show. And yeah I'm 6'2.

Irish Pilot
04-19-2011, 10:36 AM
Jay check your pm's ;)

Time+Patience
04-19-2011, 10:38 AM
Congratulations on everything. It sucks that your class had a low turnout, but you can't control who shows up, you can only present yourself in the best fashion possible and go from there.

I think the experience is valuable as it gives you an idea of what you need to do if you plan on doing it again in the future.

If you are going to be a heavyweight from here on out then adding more muscle is the only way to go. How much wiggle room do you have with the Heavyweight class? I'm assuming 198-216 or around there?

More size will only make you look better, and don't lose the conditioning. Alex does have an interesting way of thinkin things through, but I agree that it probably caused you more undue stress.

How do you feel you held onto muscle throughout? Do you think you could have held onto a bit more size, while maintaining a high level of conditioning, if you knew that you would be a Heavyweight?

Behemoth
04-19-2011, 01:06 PM
If alex was telling the truth and that wasn't a last minute ditch to save face on his part its actually very rational. I would think he would have told you one maybe two days prior though. I see no reason he would have to make you wait up until within hours if he actually knew that you weren't going to be a LH for some time before that.

cphafner
04-19-2011, 08:40 PM
I gave you crap in this thread (and yes I have no problem eating crow!) but you have totally proved me wrong.
http://www.wannabebig.com/forums/showthread.php?94229-3-years-at-WBB&highlight=

I can't wait to see you come back in a couple years with true heavy weight (or super heavy!!!) size. That situation with Alex just sounds really shady to me.

jAy_Dub
04-20-2011, 09:00 AM
Congratulations on everything. It sucks that your class had a low turnout, but you can't control who shows up, you can only present yourself in the best fashion possible and go from there.

I think the experience is valuable as it gives you an idea of what you need to do if you plan on doing it again in the future.

If you are going to be a heavyweight from here on out then adding more muscle is the only way to go. How much wiggle room do you have with the Heavyweight class? I'm assuming 198-216 or around there?

More size will only make you look better, and don't lose the conditioning. Alex does have an interesting way of thinkin things through, but I agree that it probably caused you more undue stress.

How do you feel you held onto muscle throughout? Do you think you could have held onto a bit more size, while maintaining a high level of conditioning, if you knew that you would be a Heavyweight?

Heavies go up to 225 I believe or somewhere close maybe 228...

I held onto muscle way better than I expected... I'm sure I actually grew into the show. My strength went UP as I got closer until about 3 weeks out, then it was only downhill lol.




If alex was telling the truth and that wasn't a last minute ditch to save face on his part its actually very rational. I would think he would have told you one maybe two days prior though. I see no reason he would have to make you wait up until within hours if he actually knew that you weren't going to be a LH for some time before that.

He literally told me it was "critical I make weight" and "lets hope your scale is off". Then 1 hour later after I went to Wal Mart and stepped on the brand new scale and it read the same, he said "fuck it bro, your a heavyweight!".

At that point in time I could have killed someone, I was STEAMING. It was past midnight and my stress levels were through the roof. It makes sense of everything that he said, but it was all said after the fact, he could have easily been upfront to begin with. Not like I was going to blow my condition after suffering that much and being so close to the show...


I gave you crap in this thread (and yes I have no problem eating crow!) but you have totally proved me wrong.
http://www.wannabebig.com/forums/showthread.php?94229-3-years-at-WBB&highlight=

I can't wait to see you come back in a couple years with true heavy weight (or super heavy!!!) size. That situation with Alex just sounds really shady to me.

Shit Conor, your comment was completely in line and I think I deserved crap. I would change a lot of things if I could go back to that point...

I'm looking forward to putting on some size as well. Its always been a challenge for me but I enjoy challenges :evillaugh:

I still dont know what to think about Alex... He did get me into great condition though and he was the only reason I looked like I did. Its just too bad that had to happen last minute. I always spoke very very highly of him.

RBB
04-21-2011, 06:55 AM
I gave you crap in this thread (and yes I have no problem eating crow!) but you have totally proved me wrong.
http://www.wannabebig.com/forums/showthread.php?94229-3-years-at-WBB&highlight=

I can't wait to see you come back in a couple years with true heavy weight (or super heavy!!!) size. That situation with Alex just sounds really shady to me.

I agree with Conor here. Can't wait to see you as a super heavy. You've got a ton of room to fill out. You'd be real tough to beat as a super. Take a few years off and put on the size.

You looked damn good, though, Jay. Conditioning was solid....nobody had anything on you in that area. Nice work, buddy.

killxswitch
04-21-2011, 07:20 AM
Jdub I just took that walk down memory lane, it's pretty weird to see you as a scrawny little guy. How much did you weigh back then, 150? Very impressive to see how far you've come.

jAy_Dub
04-21-2011, 10:39 AM
I agree with Conor here. Can't wait to see you as a super heavy. You've got a ton of room to fill out. You'd be real tough to beat as a super. Take a few years off and put on the size.

You looked damn good, though, Jay. Conditioning was solid....nobody had anything on you in that area. Nice work, buddy.

Thanks Russ, I cant imagine myself as a super. That is my ultimate goal...


Jdub I just took that walk down memory lane, it's pretty weird to see you as a scrawny little guy. How much did you weigh back then, 150? Very impressive to see how far you've come.

Yeah its funny stuff to go back to my original thread on "3 month progress" hahaha. I originally weighed around 165, at the same height!

Here are a couple more pics from after the show. First is the morning after, the crazy thing is, this doesnt even show the true detail of how vascular my legs really looked. It was insane. Second pic is me weighing 226, literally 24 lbs heavier than what I weighed in at.

http://www.professionalmuscle.com/forums/attachments/members-photos/44298d1303324937-first-show-legs.jpg

http://www.professionalmuscle.com/forums/attachments/members-photos/44299d1303324947-first-show-chest.jpg

Behemoth
04-21-2011, 11:51 AM
In retrospect would you have done a more extensive carb load?

Allen Cress
04-21-2011, 02:32 PM
Jay, first off congrats! You did great, especially for your first show. Now as far as your coach, I don't know him so can't comment on him personally, but you could have absolutely made light-heavyweights. Especially weighing 200 lbs. Any coach should always be upfront and honest no matter what the situation even if he was wrong.

There is no way you can carb load and drop more weight, regardless if you cut water or not, which should never be cut completely on a carb load anyway. At best you would have stayed the same weight. So it seems he doesn't really understand how the body absorbs carbs. The problem with peaking or loading is that a lot of people don't truly understand it especially if a competitor needs to make weight. At this point the diet shouldn't change until after weigh ins. You usually have 24 + hours after weigh in to load if needed so once you make weight you can start loading at that point.

Only being 2 lbs over weight if you would have stuck to your current diet and just had a couple of regular diet meals and cut water until after weigh ins you would have made it easy. There are other tricks if weight is higher like using a glycerine suppository (anally) which will only empty the stomach and not dehydrate you like a laxative taken orally.

Carb loading works, Fat loading works, High protein works, its just all individual and how your body works, which should be understoood for the most part by the coach if he has been working with you the last 12-16 weeks. The only loading method you would ever cut water out completely one day prior would be fat loading. The reason it works is the introduction of high sodium foods, carbs, and fats will keep the body hydrated for at least 24 hours, but still needs monitoring which is why I have my clients that do this keep in contact with me all day. You can have a certain amount of liquid after prejudging depending on person. This is just one of many examples on loading.

So being your first contest take it as a learning experience. You did a great job.

jAy_Dub
04-23-2011, 06:20 PM
In retrospect would you have done a more extensive carb load?

I actually just watched a video series on "peak week" made by Layne Norton. In it he explains everything from training and cardio, to diet (carb loading, sodium, water intake), and posing. He says everyone should begin carb loading at the beginning of your peak week about 5-6 days out from your show. I agree with everything that was said in his videos. I'm going to post them up in the bodybuilding section. If you havent already seen them, you should definitely give them a watch.


Jay, first off congrats! You did great, especially for your first show. Now as far as your coach, I don't know him so can't comment on him personally, but you could have absolutely made light-heavyweights. Especially weighing 200 lbs. Any coach should always be upfront and honest no matter what the situation even if he was wrong.

There is no way you can carb load and drop more weight, regardless if you cut water or not, which should never be cut completely on a carb load anyway. At best you would have stayed the same weight. So it seems he doesn't really understand how the body absorbs carbs. The problem with peaking or loading is that a lot of people don't truly understand it especially if a competitor needs to make weight. At this point the diet shouldn't change until after weigh ins. You usually have 24 + hours after weigh in to load if needed so once you make weight you can start loading at that point.

Only being 2 lbs over weight if you would have stuck to your current diet and just had a couple of regular diet meals and cut water until after weigh ins you would have made it easy. There are other tricks if weight is higher like using a glycerine suppository (anally) which will only empty the stomach and not dehydrate you like a laxative taken orally.

Carb loading works, Fat loading works, High protein works, its just all individual and how your body works, which should be understoood for the most part by the coach if he has been working with you the last 12-16 weeks. The only loading method you would ever cut water out completely one day prior would be fat loading. The reason it works is the introduction of high sodium foods, carbs, and fats will keep the body hydrated for at least 24 hours, but still needs monitoring which is why I have my clients that do this keep in contact with me all day. You can have a certain amount of liquid after prejudging depending on person. This is just one of many examples on loading.

So being your first contest take it as a learning experience. You did a great job.


Thanks for the response Allen. This particular show had weigh-ins the day of the show at 9 am. Prejudging began at 12. So I only had a window of 3 hours between weigh-ins and prejudging.

And I know I absolutely could have made weight, it just would have taken a couple days heads up that I would need to drop 4 more lbs. 4 lbs is nothing really, just extra water weight. The problem was it being 12 am, 9 hours before weigh-ins, and me having 3 coats of pro tan on so I couldnt sweat it out.

cphafner
04-23-2011, 07:30 PM
I actually just watched a video series on "peak week" made by Layne Norton. In it he explains everything from training and cardio, to diet (carb loading, sodium, water intake), and posing. He says everyone should begin carb loading at the beginning of your peak week about 5-6 days out from your show. I agree with everything that was said in his videos. I'm going to post them up in the bodybuilding section. If you havent already seen them, you should definitely give them a watch.


Did you post them up, would love to see them.

My thing with this weight discussion is if he didn't think you could come down, why would he fill you at as much as possible? You said you filled out and put on 20lbs just after the show? Seems like if you couldn't be a light heavy you should have tried to be a heavier heavy weight, but what do I know. Alex has worked with hundreds of competitors.

jAy_Dub
04-23-2011, 08:04 PM
Did you post them up, would love to see them.

My thing with this weight discussion is if he didn't think you could come down, why would he fill you at as much as possible? You said you filled out and put on 20lbs just after the show? Seems like if you couldn't be a light heavy you should have tried to be a heavier heavy weight, but what do I know. Alex has worked with hundreds of competitors.

I posted the video link here

http://www.wannabebig.com/forums/showthread.php?142958-Everything-you-need-to-know-about-peak-week

I put on 20 lbs but it was all water obviously. I'm still holding about 13-15 lbs of it. I gotta stop eating junk, but I can't lol. Unfortunately it all still tastes amazing and I cant get rid of my sweet tooth. This Monday I'm back in the gym and eating clean though.

As far as coming in heavier, I think I just would have looked sloppier. I really honestly believe I kept all my muscle.

Alex is great for getting you into competition lean status, but hes not the best at adding mass to your frame. Last time I told him I wanted to add mass, I basically just ended up maintaining.

Gabrielle
04-29-2011, 11:47 AM
Im suprised you responded to well to that Hernon training routine, but to each their own. Your conditioning was pretty much spot on, once you put on some more mass you will be a force. Glad to see you being honest about how you felt about your contest prep and the people involved.

missiontomuscle
05-01-2011, 04:29 AM
Wow - fantastic effort!

I'm considering comps in the future and this was a great read.

Time+Patience
05-01-2011, 06:31 PM
I haven't commented on that recent leg shot.

Ridiculous. Were you able to achieve that level of vascularity being displayed during the contest? Legs are looking quite sick in that shot.

jAy_Dub
05-02-2011, 08:54 AM
Im suprised you responded to well to that Hernon training routine, but to each their own. Your conditioning was pretty much spot on, once you put on some more mass you will be a force. Glad to see you being honest about how you felt about your contest prep and the people involved.

Thanks Gabrielle, I cant wait to do it again but next time at the very top of the heavy weight class at a much bigger show.


Wow - fantastic effort!

I'm considering comps in the future and this was a great read.

Hey mission, I'd recommend hiring a trainer, listen to every word, and go for it! You wont regret it.


I haven't commented on that recent leg shot.

Ridiculous. Were you able to achieve that level of vascularity being displayed during the contest? Legs are looking quite sick in that shot.

I had barely any vascularity at all during the show unfortunately... After watching Layne Nortons videos on carbing up and sodium intake, I think I may have needed more carbs and much more sodium. I was a little flat at the show.

mchicia1
05-02-2011, 09:12 AM
How do you get your legs that vascular? Good god, that is awesome.

Seems like we have similar frames, so I will be tracking your progress...maybe what works for you will work for me too, although I am a little bit taller. Luckily, most of my extra height is in my legs so I can still fill out my upper body.

jAy_Dub
05-04-2011, 09:46 AM
How do you get your legs that vascular? Good god, that is awesome.

Seems like we have similar frames, so I will be tracking your progress...maybe what works for you will work for me too, although I am a little bit taller. Luckily, most of my extra height is in my legs so I can still fill out my upper body.

4 things for the vascularity...

1. Heat (just jumped out of a super hot shower)
2. Shit ton of carbs
3. High sodium intake
4. Drugs

How do you feel your diet is coming so far?

I'm loving my setup from the lean gains principles book. I've been used to eating the same damn foods for literally the past 6 months. I love having the flexibility of enjoying carbs one day and a lot more fats on the low carb day. Seeing as I'm still doing Phil's routine (3 days on, 1 off) my setup is high carb (arm day, since arms are my weakest link), then 2 medium carb days, and one low carb day on my day off. Doing 20-30 minutes of cardio daily as well. I asked Shelby about this and he said it should be a good starting point. Can't wait to see where I am in a couple months. Weight seems to be coming on pretty easily still. I gotta take full advantage of the post show gains!

mchicia1
05-04-2011, 10:40 AM
4 things for the vascularity...

1. Heat (just jumped out of a super hot shower)
2. Shit ton of carbs
3. High sodium intake
4. Drugs

How do you feel your diet is coming so far?



I'm loving my setup from the lean gains principles book. I've been used to eating the same damn foods for literally the past 6 months. I love having the flexibility of enjoying carbs one day and a lot more fats on the low carb day. Seeing as I'm still doing Phil's routine (3 days on, 1 off) my setup is high carb (arm day, since arms are my weakest link), then 2 medium carb days, and one low carb day on my day off. Doing 20-30 minutes of cardio daily as well. I asked Shelby about this and he said it should be a good starting point. Can't wait to see where I am in a couple months. Weight seems to be coming on pretty easily still. I gotta take full advantage of the post show gains!

My diet is going perfect so far...It has been about 10 days and I have lost close to two pounds. This is after already crash dieting down about 10 pounds prior to buying the book, so its not just water weight that is coming off now. My gym strength is actually going up and my wife is making comments about my physique popping out more. So, it has been great so far. I have been the same weight the last 3 days though, so if it doesn't drop tomorrow morning, I will probably make a small adjustment.

No drugs for me :). This is purely a recreational hobby of mine. I still do want to get freaky large and lean though.