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View Full Version : Food & drinks to avoid during a cut?



Hugol
04-05-2011, 12:45 PM
Bread? Soda's? Tortillas? Chips? Ice Cream?Any other?



Or how much is too much? I know many would say that it depends on calorie intake, but I dont use it because I dont know how much calories many I eat have.

Any comment will help.

Thanks

Majik
04-05-2011, 01:37 PM
there are the usuals as you pointed out... booze too.

Usually I would say be smart about it... but i'm a strength athlete, cutting to me is losing water weight.

Floid
04-05-2011, 01:37 PM
I give up all liquid calories (except protein shakes). Hardest thing there is beer, which I will usually cheat and drink 2-3 on either Friday or Saturday night.

Food wise, I cut out anything made of flour, potatoes, or rice except for when I eat sandwhiches which is usually once per day. Not a big sweets eater so I don't really have any of those to cut out to begin with.

Off Road
04-05-2011, 02:02 PM
I'd think that just about anything is fair game as long as it fits into your macros for the day.
I see guys like Behemoth, T&P, and F=MA using carbs during their cuts, and they are pretty lean guys.

Mercuryblade
04-05-2011, 02:06 PM
I'd think that just about anything is fair game as long as it fits into your macros for the day.


This and this and this.

I eat bread and drink beer and sometimes have McDonalds when I'm cutting.
The calorie is king.

DHSBigD03
04-05-2011, 02:31 PM
It really doesn't matter a whole lot what you eat. It just matters when and that you are cutting your caloric intake. And from personal experience, eating 4-5 meals a day amounting to a little less than 2000 calories, you want to eat stuff that will make you feel full so you're not starving yourself throughout the day. Also, i've found its best to eat most of your carbs when cutting before and after a workout.

Hugol
04-05-2011, 02:46 PM
Is there any websites you guys use to know exactly how many calories an item contains?

I know I have seen a formula that tells how many calories your supposed to eat in order to loose weight, anybody know it?

Is there really foods that helps burn fat?

When on a cut, what recomended when lifting? heavy and low reps or light and high reps? My short time goal is just to loose weight while starting to create a fisical apperance of a guy who goes to a gym.

Thanks

Mercuryblade
04-05-2011, 03:17 PM
Is there any websites you guys use to know exactly how many calories an item contains?
http://www.fitday.com

I know I have seen a formula that tells how many calories your supposed to eat in order to loose weight, anybody know it?
You must eat less calories than you consume. This is dependent on a variety of factors and there is no formula that works for one person. You must figure this out on your own.

Is there really foods that helps burn fat?
No.

When on a cut, what recomended when lifting? heavy and low reps or light and high reps? My short time goal is just to loose weight while starting to create a fisical apperance of a guy who goes to a gym.
Some people end up going for heavier weights and lower reps because calorie deficits over time can tend to deplete energy levels.

Thanks

Answers bolded.
Also, I'm not a grammar nazi but "fisical", really?

RichMcGuire
04-05-2011, 03:24 PM
Is there any websites you guys use to know exactly how many calories an item contains?

Fitday.com or google "calorie counters"


I know I have seen a formula that tells how many calories your supposed to eat in order to loose weight, anybody know it?

There are lots but they are just a guess. Try your bodyweight x 15 and subtract 300-500 and adjust as needed. Or monitor your food intake for a week or two to get an exact number and then subtract 500 to lose fat.


Is there really foods that helps burn fat?

The ones that have less Calories.


When on a cut, what recomended when lifting? heavy and low reps or light and high reps? My short time goal is just to loose weight while starting to create a fisical apperance of a guy who goes to a gym.

I wouldn't change anything right away. Contiue to lift and get stronger as you let your Calorie deficit from food/cardio take care of the fat. If you need to lower the volume down the road, do it, but maintain your working weights/intensity.

Hugol
04-05-2011, 03:37 PM
Thanks guys, Mercury sorry dude english is not my primary language:thumbup:

Dan Fanelli
04-05-2011, 05:25 PM
Everything has its place as long as it fits into the bigger picture of calories and macros. But, just make sure you understand that there are different types of calories, different types of carbs, fats, and proteins. 50g of carbs from soda isn't the same as 50g of carbs from a sweet potato. Fried chicken is not the same as a lean chicken breast and avocado.

A calorie isn't just a calorie.

Hugol
04-08-2011, 03:07 PM
Thanks for the fitday website, its very helpfull :thumbup:

Shaun Mirjavadi
04-10-2011, 09:07 PM
I agree with Dan Fanelli here for sure. A calorie is not just a calorie. Or else I'd cut with cheesecake and burgers. Different carbs effect insulin differently, you cant get optimal results on a cut without keeping the insulin hormone in check. All foods can have a hormonal effect in your body. Thats one of the reasons that we eat a lot of protein. If you eat 300g protein in a day, you don't turn even a percent of it to new lean mass. But, it fits great into your macros because it keeps you anabolic and keeps your blood sugar low and stable. Bread, simple sugars, etc should be avoided when cutting. Now if you're just trying to lose a few pounds, then just cutting back can be ok. I guess Im not sure exactly what you're cutting for or what you are expecting to do. But you won't get shredded and maintain all your muscle mass without paying attention to your macros, rather than just your calories. No offense to anybody, by the way

Hugol
04-11-2011, 01:19 PM
I agree with Dan Fanelli here for sure. A calorie is not just a calorie. Or else I'd cut with cheesecake and burgers. Different carbs effect insulin differently, you cant get optimal results on a cut without keeping the insulin hormone in check. All foods can have a hormonal effect in your body. Thats one of the reasons that we eat a lot of protein. If you eat 300g protein in a day, you don't turn even a percent of it to new lean mass. But, it fits great into your macros because it keeps you anabolic and keeps your blood sugar low and stable. Bread, simple sugars, etc should be avoided when cutting. Now if you're just trying to lose a few pounds, then just cutting back can be ok. I guess Im not sure exactly what you're cutting for or what you are expecting to do. But you won't get shredded and maintain all your muscle mass without paying attention to your macros, rather than just your calories. No offense to anybody, by the way

The reason for cutting is because I ask a member from here what he would recommend to obtain a body similar to the one he has and I told him my body weight at the time which was 197lbs and he told me to first drop a few pounds.

I went from 197 to 190(today) and I go up a lbs or down 1 and can't seem to go down anymore....and thats the reason for this post. My goal is to try to go down to at least 180, but Iam stuck on 190. :(

RichMcGuire
04-11-2011, 05:24 PM
I agree with Dan Fanelli here for sure. A calorie is not just a calorie. Or else I'd cut with cheesecake and burgers. Different carbs effect insulin differently, you cant get optimal results on a cut without keeping the insulin hormone in check. All foods can have a hormonal effect in your body. Thats one of the reasons that we eat a lot of protein. If you eat 300g protein in a day, you don't turn even a percent of it to new lean mass. But, it fits great into your macros because it keeps you anabolic and keeps your blood sugar low and stable. Bread, simple sugars, etc should be avoided when cutting. Now if you're just trying to lose a few pounds, then just cutting back can be ok. I guess Im not sure exactly what you're cutting for or what you are expecting to do. But you won't get shredded and maintain all your muscle mass without paying attention to your macros, rather than just your calories. No offense to anybody, by the way

Protein can have just a great of insulin spike as carbohydrates as well. I think saying "avoid bread and simple sugars" is a mistake. It's an absolute when its not needed. Lots of things work. For one, carbohydrates can be more muscle sparing than protein itself. And 2, if you're in a deficit of Calories, you'll lose fat regardless. Also, having periods during the week where you consume higher amounts of starches/Calories can help offset Leptin levels. Cutting is catabolic regardless of the amount of protein you consume.

I agree with the last part you said aboutmacros being the most important thing.

Shaun Mirjavadi
04-11-2011, 07:09 PM
Im not saying to avoid carbs, I actually diet down to nothing using a lot of carbs. They are greatly protein sparing, therefore on high carb days you can lower your protein and keep the overall calories low. To say that a carb is a carb is a mystake I believe. There are better choices, say a cup of brown rice over a handful of jelly beans. All foods will have some impact on insulin, but to say that protein has an equal effect as sugar is false. Huge calorie deficits do not always mean lots of fat burning. If you are in starvation, your body will not efficiently burn fat rather than muscle mass. Without enough fat, your body will try to hoard it. Without enough carbs, gluconeogenesis (converting your amino acids to glycogen for energy) is a risk. Cutting carbs and fats low is definitely not a wise choice. And protein intake is important for any athlete, especially a bodybuilder. And yes, a diet can be catabolic regardless of protein intake, but it doesn't have to be. Your high carb days are your most anabolic. However, if you did it every day, it would soon equate to increased fat storage. Insulin can be your friend or your enemy. Its all macros that are important at some time or another. The best results come from proper timing of when they are used.

The thing is, if you want to argue that somebody can lose weight with bread and simple sugars by just watching calories, the answer is definitely yes. But there are more optimal ways to shed the pounds. If you're going to do it, you might as well do it right and get the best results. Try it both ways if you want to. See for yourself. At your goal weight, you will surely look your best with a cleaner diet.

Shaun Mirjavadi
04-11-2011, 08:59 PM
[QUOTE=RichMcGuire;2459603]. Also, having periods during the week where you consume higher amounts of starches/Calories can help offset Leptin levels.



Talking about Leptin levels, it is true that having a calorie or carbohydrate spike can increase Leptin production. Leptin is valuable to increase satiety and metabolism. However, it is important to note that leptin levels are directly proportional to stored adipose tissue, as that is where it is primarily manufactured. So why do obese people with consistently high levels of circulating Leptin not have the increase of satiety and metabolism? Well, there are many studies that show that high levels of fructose and sugars can cause Leptin resistance (and insulin resistance). They have more circulating Leptin, but less functional use of it.

By the way, I don't mean to start a huge debate or argument with you here, there are just a lot of variables to consider. There are a lot of good reasons to try to limit simple sugars, there are better choices most times.

RichMcGuire
04-12-2011, 01:00 AM
All foods will have some impact on insulin, but to say that protein has an equal effect as sugar is false.

Oh really? Beef ranks up there on the insulin index as a 51 and white pasta is only 40. You said to eliminate bread. Rye bread is 56 on the insulin index. Thats about the same as some fish. You might want to actually look at the II relations of food before you generalize. As with all things, it depends.

RichMcGuire
04-12-2011, 01:09 AM
Well, there are many studies that show that high levels of fructose and sugars can cause Leptin resistance (and insulin resistance). They have more circulating Leptin, but less functional use of it.

.

So we should avoid fruit?

Can you link the studies for us? I would like to see how much fructose they are actually talking about.

I also see you're from Michigan. Grand Rapids here :)

Shaun Mirjavadi
04-12-2011, 08:36 AM
Nice. I lived in GR for 3 years a while back. Maybe we've trained at the same gyms. I can link some studies, but Im working right now and will have to try to find time later. As with insulin resistance, it would probably take a lot and is probobly somewhat genetic as well. Im just making the point.

Im not saying to avoid bread and sugars. I think fruits are great, but its much different eating natural real foods than something like fruity pebbles. I know many people who have great results with a paleo type diet, and they eat a lot of fruit. I probobly have anywhere from 2-4 fruit servings per day, depending on my carb cycle. And the sugar does have its place, for one it very quickly can replenish liver glycogen. and yes, some breads are much better than others. I love Ezikial bread (im sure I spelled that wrong) and Its a great carb. But in general, there are better carbs than white bread. As for fruit, I put blueberies in my oatmeal every morning. I also like an apple with my lunch, and they are pretty low GI for fruit. Berries and wonderful, oranges, grapefruits, pretty low GI with great nutritional benefits.

Like i said, it really depends on the goals of the individual. If you just want to shed a few lbs, you definitely don't have to be so picky. For me, Im doing a national qualifier in August (in GR actually) and Im not going to carb cycle with bread and I will be avoiding sugars until showtime. A hope my competition goes by the calorie is a calorie theory! lol. The main thing is finding something that the individual can stick with for the long haul. However, if my client is competing, I definitely want them to choose good carb sources.

Ill have to look at the insulin index of meats compared to pasta. Inflammatory index of foods is also interesting, it compares the nutritional value to the impact it has on insulin overall. Meat ranks much lower than bread and pasta. Inflammation is the root of many evils, pancreatic, liver, joint pain, aging in general, most diseases are a result of some type of inflammation.

RichMcGuire, where do you train at down there? I trained at Cascade Gym, then at Champion. Whats your phone number and address? haha just kidding with ya. Come on man... will you be my friend? Don't make me facebook your ass! lol anyway, to each his own, I don't have too much time for arguing. Peace not war! Ive gotten all the face smashing in that I need in a lifetime. We're all birds of the same feather, we should flock together! :)

RichMcGuire
04-12-2011, 10:31 AM
Berries and wonderful, oranges, grapefruits, pretty low GI with great nutritional benefits.


RichMcGuire, where do you train at down there? I trained at Cascade Gym, then at Champion. Whats your phone number and address? haha just kidding with ya. Come on man... will you be my friend? Don't make me facebook your ass! lol anyway, to each his own, I don't have too much time for arguing. Peace not war! Ive gotten all the face smashing in that I need in a lifetime. We're all birds of the same feather, we should flock together! :)

Yea, but GI doesn't always correlate with Insulin spikes.

Lol, Cascade is like 15 mins from me. I train at the powerhouse (now called strength and beyond) over on plainfield because they are open 24/7 and it only costs 298 for 2 years of membership. It used to be good or 2 people.but I had to fork over another 300 for the gf.

RichMcGuire
04-12-2011, 10:33 AM
Thanks for the fitday website, its very helpfull :thumbup:

Were you able to track your Calories okay on there? I so, you can show us your breakdowns and we can see exactly what you are eating.

Hugol
04-12-2011, 12:46 PM
Iam about to start drinking herbal life meal replacements. One in the morning and 1 for dinner. I usually would just take one in the morning for breakfast but I know that if you do it for dinner pounds will drop. I just didn't like to do it for dinner because after a hard days work I really get home super hungry , but since I stopped loosing weight I think Iam gonna go this route to see if I can still loose some pounds.

Thanks for all the help guys:thumbup:

Behemoth
04-12-2011, 04:42 PM
I saw some very good points made by both rich and shaun, good stuff in here.

Like rich alluded to in that GI isn't always the most important part in the insulin equation glycemic load must also be considered. 60g worth of whey might cause a greater secretion than 30g worth of apple (it might not either I'm just throwing random possibilities out there as I can't look it up atm).

The point about "the main thing is finding something individual that one can stick with for the long haul" made by shaun is of the utmost importance. People can get contest shredded on garbage if they can adhere to it and it fits their necessary macros. Most all can't adhere to it.

Shaun Mirjavadi
04-13-2011, 08:10 AM
Yea, but GI doesn't always correlate with Insulin spikes.

No it doesn't, GI is really about blood glucose, but it does trigger some insulin response, regardless. Both GI and Insulin index are really just relative, I believe. The important thing really is eating whole, real foods. Avoiding all the processing and empty calories. I tend to like the old mantra that if it comes from the ground or has a face, you can eat it! (for the most part)

[QUOTE=Behemoth;2460002]I saw some very good points made by both rich and shaun, good stuff in here.

Like rich alluded to in that GI isn't always the most important part in the insulin equation glycemic load must also be considered. 60g worth of whey might cause a greater secretion than 30g worth of apple (it might not either I'm just throwing random possibilities out there as I can't look it up atm).

Yes, some foods, such as proteins and fats, actually have a higher insulin response than we were originally taught. and some, like Fructose, have a lower insulin response than we thought. But yeah, glycemic load is important. I think that timing and a combination of foods is important. Insulin is a key to cells, not JUST fat cells. It doesn't really differentiate between tissues. As athletes/ bodybuilders our muscles are often in a depleted state, so muscle glycogen/ amino acid storage is often promoted. Without foods that we eat having some effect on insulin, nutrients wouldn't be shuttled to the proper cells so efficiently. The trick is creating the demand in the proper cells, as fat storage can be easy. (ie insulin sensitivity) I mean, come on, its easy for a lot of people to get fat! At the same time, some people have such a difficult time gaining an ounce. So really, all this is just relative. It all just varies from person to person.

Originally Posted by Behemoth

The point about "the main thing is finding something individual that one can stick with for the long haul" made by shaun is of the utmost importance. People can get contest shredded on garbage if they can adhere to it and it fits their necessary macros. Most all can't adhere to it.

Yeah, like the guy who did that study by eating all hostess cupcakes and twinkies and lost weight, and lowered his blood pressure and cholesterol. Thats just disheartening to us all in a way, lol. The thing is, if I get say, 600 calories in a meal, do I want half of a big mac and a small fry, which taste good but leaves me starving for more, and will yield about 15g pro, 40g carbs, and 50g fat (ballpark)? or do I want to stuff myself with, say, 2 cups of brown rice, 8 oz chicken breast, and a cup of steamed broccoli, yielding about 65g pro, 65g carbs, and 10g fat and leaving me very full and satisfied. Also better muscle building food, fits into macros nicely :). This is why I go by macros instead of overall calories.


Oh really? Beef ranks up there on the insulin index as a 51 and white pasta is only 40. You said to eliminate bread. Rye bread is 56 on the insulin index. Thats about the same as some fish. You might want to actually look at the II relations of food before you generalize. As with all things, it depends.

It does all depend, but I don't put all my money on the Insulin Index right now. There isn't much good data on it yet and its really pretty broad. Like I said, it all varies from person to person. Meat might raise insulin, but its not chocking your veins full of glucose, so there is a difference. Insulin index aside, Rye Bread and Fish are completely different foods with completely different macros and purpose for the body. I don't mean to eliminate bread. It really depends on where somebody is at in the diet. The thing is, if you give people an inch, they tend to take the whole foot. Ive told clients they could have bread, come to find out, they're putting a bunch of processed lunch meat on it for their protein, some swiss cheese, and a bunch of mayo. Now hold on... its gotta fit into the macros! Im not saying that a deli sandwich is horrible either, but there are better choices, especially if somebody is in competition mode.

Getting back to this poor guy who started the thread, it would be nice to know what you are eating before we critique why you can't lose weight. What are you currently doing that you can't lose weight? What are your workouts like? Things like that. Im not a big fan of going to a liquid diet, not that it won't work, but there might be better options. Especially drinking one when you are your hungriest right after work. It will take a whole lot of will power, day after day, to not binge out at that time. Maybe you should implement a smaller meal 2-3 hours before the time that you come home and are starving? Like I said, we need to see what you are doing to give a better judgment call.

Hugol
04-13-2011, 11:57 AM
When you guys talk about MACROS is this it?

Its the proportional nutritional breakdown of food groups consumed, For example, a 40/40/20 breakdown would be 40% carbs, 40% protein and 20% fat

:confused:

Behemoth
04-13-2011, 12:07 PM
Yes, that would be your macronutrient percentage. More importantly one is best off to determine how many grams of protein they need, how many grams of fat they need, and then what amount above and beyond those two necessities should be carbs, more protein or more fat. The amounts will tend to vary based on goals so this makes ones macro "percentage" different at varied intakes. When I say "what are your macros" I means how many grams of protein, fat, and carbs are you taking in, not what percentage of you total caloric intake is each.

I know that all sounds complicated but its really not. Really if you're eating good meals that contain good nutrients all most people need worry about is tracking the amounts consistently to match their goals.

Shaun Mirjavadi
04-13-2011, 03:25 PM
Yes, that would be your macronutrient percentage. More importantly one is best off to determine how many grams of protein they need, how many grams of fat they need, and then what amount above and beyond those two necessities should be carbs, more protein or more fat. The amounts will tend to vary based on goals so this makes ones macro "percentage" different at varied intakes. When I say "what are your macros" I means how many grams of protein, fat, and carbs are you taking in, not what percentage of you total caloric intake is each.

I know that all sounds complicated but its really not. Really if you're eating good meals that contain good nutrients all most people need worry about is tracking the amounts consistently to match their goals.




Great advice. Take it from the guy with the shredded lat spread pic, looks like he's doing something right!

ArmyM
05-09-2011, 12:10 AM
The hardest thing for me is to cut out the caffeine. I usually drink 2 cups of coffee a day and a coke.