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bobbydeniro
04-20-2011, 11:56 AM
Hi everyone, first time poster!

I'm a 22 year old female, 5'5" and 132 Ibs.

Basically, I've been losing weight/working out for about 6 months now and have lost a good deal of weight, something like 20Ibs. However, looking at my body, it appears to have been mostly muscle and water, because I'm still a bit wobbly looking in places. I have only a couple of weeks before I go on holiday where I plan to wear a bikini and really want to lose some of this flab.

I was recently intrigued by a rapid weight loss diet that claims to spare muscle but lose large amounts of fat in a short time.It is called '2 shakes and 1 chicken salad', and as the name implies, you drink a meal replacement protein shake for breakfast and lunch, and then have a large salad with a couple of chicken breasts for dinner. I am guessing that the calories on this diet add up to about 1,000 - 1,200 per day.

Since up til this point, my training has been almost exclusively cardio-based, I am starting this '2 shakes 1 salad' diet as well as starting to do resistance training 2-3 times a week, with a short cardio session on 2 of those days in addition.

I understand that these calories are too low for a long-term diet, and of course I don't plan to follow the diet for much longer than 2 weeks, just up until my holiday. Yes, it's a crash diet and yes, it's against most of the cardinal diet rules people talk about on other websites, but I'm fairly desperate, and all I want to know is, will it work? Remember that I'm a first-time weight-trainer and as I understand it, people like me can expect to see something called 'Newbie Gains' in my first few weeks of starting a new lifting program. I am also aware that because of the high protein content of the diet, I am unlikely to lose much muscle. Is this true?

Thanks so much for your thoughts in advance. I know that a lot of people will blast me for doing something like this, but I am usually sensible in these respects and for once just need fast results. :)

Behemoth
04-20-2011, 12:04 PM
1000-1200 for a 132lb female isn't even all that low. If you can stick with it, yes it will work.

bobbydeniro
04-20-2011, 12:06 PM
1000-1200 for a 132lb female isn't even all that low. If you can stick with it, yes it will work.

Really? That's brilliant news, I posted this on another forum called Livestrong and the members on there were telling me that I need something like 2500 per day and that 1200 would be the maintenance amount for a toddler!

What sort of weight loss can I expect to see in the 2 week period, as well as (if any) muscle gains?

Thanks!

Behemoth
04-20-2011, 12:17 PM
In two weeks? I wouldn't expect a whole lot of either.

bobbydeniro
04-20-2011, 12:19 PM
Ah, ok.

But if you're saying that those calories aren't too low then theoretically I could follow the plan for longer than 2 weeks? That guy Rusty on Fitness Black Book says that fat loss should be rapid and visible after a couple of weeks, so I assumed that it was a good amount of time to do it for. Confused now!

Behemoth
04-20-2011, 12:36 PM
It will be rapid. But only so much can happen in 2 weeks, and even if you lose 150% the weight you would at a more moderate deficit, its still not a lot of weight given the time.

You may be able to follow that for an extended duration or you may not. if you're inexperienced in dieting I wouldn't suggest trying to use an intake less than 11-12 calories/pound for an extended period unless you already knew it was too many for you to lose on.

bobbydeniro
04-20-2011, 12:40 PM
It will be rapid. But only so much can happen in 2 weeks, and even if you lose 150% the weight you would at a more moderate deficit, its still not a lot of weight given the time.


Thanks for clearing that up.

One last thing - as for muscle building, if I am to continue following the high-protein low-carb thing, what are my chances of building muscle in the long term? Do I have to up the calories in order to see any significant changes in the future, or is it possible to build in such a big deficit?

Behemoth
04-20-2011, 01:02 PM
Thanks for clearing that up.

One last thing - as for muscle building, if I am to continue following the high-protein low-carb thing, what are my chances of building muscle in the long term? Do I have to up the calories in order to see any significant changes in the future, or is it possible to build in such a big deficit?

Its extremely unlikely you will build any muscle in your deficit (regardless of protein intake). Perhaps for a short time but I would not expect it to be very much, very noticeable, or very long lived. Even in a surplus real muscle building is relatively slow and can even halt at times. Expecting much in a deficit would be pretty optomistic. Being a woman the cards are stacked even moreso against you for muscle building, unfortunately so.

colinS3
04-20-2011, 02:51 PM
That's a pretty small amount of calories, but I suppose if you're really desperate and it's only for two weeks it'll be okay. You shouldn't maintain that level of calories after your trip though, especially with all of the exercise you're going to be doing. You're basically putting your body into something called "starvation mode" which means it's primary objective concerning food is to store it as fat.

With that said, you should slowly build up your calories to a normal level once the two weeks of this diet is over. If you still want to lose weight once you reach a normal amount of calories, only drop your caloric intake by about 300 calories. That kind of decrease with exercise should allow you to lose around a pound a week (maybe 2), which is optimal. Keep that up until you reach your target weight. If you stop losing weight before your target weight is reached, just drop another couple hundred calories off of your diet. Just don't go too low or you'll hit starvation mode again and that definitely isn't a good place to be for extended periods of time.

bobbydeniro
04-20-2011, 04:45 PM
Thanks so much for those replies! Very useful info. I'm slightly confused still about the muscle building aspect of all this for certain reasons - about a year ago, when I first joined a gym, I started doing Body Pump classes about twice a week for around a 2 month period. I was eating at a severe calorie deficit, quite dangerously netting about 800-1000 calories, and probably not getting close to adequate protein. However, within about 3 weeks of doing Body Pump classes, I noticed visible muscle definition, especially in my legs, shoulders and the v-shaped bit in the bottom of my abs above my hipbones. Was this just due to fat loss, as opposed to building muscle? Because it truly seemed like I'd built up muscle where there was none before, even though this seems impossible based on what I've been told in this thread. Again, apologies if this is annoying to have to explain over and over.



With that said, you should slowly build up your calories to a normal level once the two weeks of this diet is over. If you still want to lose weight once you reach a normal amount of calories, only drop your caloric intake by about 300 calories. That kind of decrease with exercise should allow you to lose around a pound a week (maybe 2), which is optimal. Keep that up until you reach your target weight. If you stop losing weight before your target weight is reached, just drop another couple hundred calories off of your diet. Just don't go too low or you'll hit starvation mode again and that definitely isn't a good place to be for extended periods of time.

This is also a point of confusion for me - I really don't know what my 'normal' calorie level is anymore.

I've basically been eating at the 1200-1400 level (for periods of weeks when I'm being good) and going way off the calorie charts in recent weeks due to college-related stresses (bad, I know), i.e. bingeing. This has resulted in a fairly precarious metabolism, I think, because it seems as though anything I do causes a virtually instant change in my body, and I am not really sure what my 'perfect', 'normal' calorie goal is. I really don't want to put on weight in trying to experiment to find that number, so trial and error isn't really on the cards for me. I know there are online calculators and BMR measurements I can use, but I really feel that my metabolism doesn't work the way it once did due to months of sporadic dieting and overeating.

Obviously I'll follow your advice, Cman, and build up slowly 100 calories at a time, but do you have any advice on how I can figure out what my magic number is? My workouts aren't ridiculously intense, though I am starting to go for it with my weights. I only ever do about half an hour at most of steady-state cardio a few times a week, so calorie expenditure isn't huge and other than that I live a fairly sedentary life.

Behemoth
04-20-2011, 06:34 PM
"Starvation mode" is more myth than truth. While unfavorable things often come with extreme deficits, your body "holding onto its fat" is not one of them.

Sean S
04-21-2011, 07:48 AM
I've worked with several females around your same size, weight, and age, including my wife. With all of them they would would slowly get leaner on 1500-1800 calories a day doing ~4 days a week of lifting and moderate cardio. They were also able to demonstrate some visible muscle, but not exteme amounts. The key was staying in that calorie range consistently. Going lower than that almost always ended up with some sort of rebound binge because they simply felt too restricted and it didn't really speed up the fat loss process all that much. In my opinion dropping below this calorie range is unnecessary for most females who exercise regularly unless it is short-term for some sort of physique competition.
Also make sure you get the binging issue under control. This is a problem with more women than most people would think. It can be a real struggle, so get professional help if you need to. Periods of binging can be damaging both physically and psychologically. It's also a reason I wouldn't restrict the calorie intake too much as it sets you up for a binge if you are prone that anyway.

IronRanger
04-21-2011, 11:12 AM
You can look into the Rapid Fat Loss Handbook by Lyle McDonald: http://forums.lylemcdonald.com/forumdisplay.php?f=7

All the info you'll need is on the site, or you could buy the book. Basically, you'd set your protein requirements first and you'll only eat low fat protein such as: skinless chicken breast, tuna, super lean ground beef, etc Then, he adds essential fats (EFA) with fish oil. The rest is fibrous carbs: cauliflower, broccoli, etc.

The diet can also be extended, but usually with added re-feeds.

Behemoth
04-21-2011, 11:45 AM
You can look into the Rapid Fat Loss Handbook by Lyle McDonald: http://forums.lylemcdonald.com/forumdisplay.php?f=7

All the info you'll need is on the site, or you could buy the book. Basically, you'd set your protein requirements first and you'll only eat low fat protein such as: skinless chicken breast, tuna, super lean ground beef, etc Then, he adds essential fats (EFA) with fish oil. The rest is fibrous carbs: cauliflower, broccoli, etc.

The diet can also be extended, but usually with added re-feeds.

:thumbup: Almost linked her to this book in my first post.

bobbydeniro
04-21-2011, 12:16 PM
:thumbup: Almost linked her to this book in my first post.

Wow, that really is some interesting info! I guess because I have very little money at the moment, (and very little 'real food' protein in the house) the meal replacement protein shakes diet I'm doing is similar enough to Lyle McDonald's plan? I mean, I'm still on low calories and very high protein, so in essence it is the same diet, right?

I'm just about to finish day 3 of the shake/salad diet, and I've noticed a lot of water weight lost, especially in my face, neck and collarbone area. Good so far! It's been pretty tough, but I think I'll manage to get used to it and stick out the next couple of weeks. I just really hope I start seeing myself shrinking from the waist downwards soon!

Behemoth
04-21-2011, 12:26 PM
I don't own that particular book but I'm pretty sure lyle says no shakes on RFL.

IronRanger
04-21-2011, 12:27 PM
the meal replacement protein shakes diet I'm doing is similar enough to Lyle McDonald's plan?

No. Aside from satiety, there are nutritional aspects you won't get from shakes. Plus, an extremely low fat diet isn't healthy. Advertising campaigns would have you believe otherwise.

Also, if your protein requirements aren't met, you can definitely count on losing muscle weight. People often confuse weight loss with fat loss. If your bodyfat percentage were higher I wouldn't worry as much, but you're not obese.

If shakes and chicken breast are all you have, I'd opt for chicken breast, especially once you have some cash. Get some fish oil and a multi-vitamin too.

The point is: we don't know if you have any present deficiencies which would be exacerbated by an extreme diet, regardless if it's only two weeks.

bobbydeniro
04-21-2011, 12:54 PM
If your bodyfat percentage were higher I wouldn't worry as much, but you're not obese.


Although I'm not overweight, I recently measured my bodyfat % using an online calculator (which required measurements from my wrist, forearm, waist and hips) and it was 30%!! So, unless there is some shocking numerical trickery afoot, I'd say I have a pretty large amount of fat to lose. :P Does that change your opinion, out of interest?

IronRanger
04-21-2011, 01:02 PM
Females normally have a higher bodyfat percentage than males. 30% isn't high for females. Multiply your lean body mass by 1.25, for now, to find your protein requirements. As you get leaner, your protein needs will go up.

132 lbs x 30% = 40

132-40=92

92x1.25=115

115 grams of protein would be a good starting place for you. Increase your protein intake incrementally to 2 grams/lb of lean body mass as you get leaner.

You could also go the generic route and use 1 gram per pound of bodyweight for your protein intake, but I've found this approach works better if you're including enough carbs to stave off catabolism. Yes, carbs fight catabolism too. :)

bobbydeniro
04-21-2011, 01:07 PM
Females normally have a higher bodyfat percentage than males. 30% isn't high for females. Multiply your lean body mass by 1.25, for now, to find your protein requirements. As you get leaner, your protein needs will go up.


Fantastic, that's really good to know. I was alarmed to read that I was apparently teetering dangerously close to obesity according to my body weight, despite the fact that I'm the smallest I've been in a long while!! .. And as for that protein intake, I've been hitting about 120g per day for the past 3 days, and from tonight I'm adding in a couple of 1000mg fish EPA fish oil capsules too. I will update progress in here, should anybody wish to read it :)

IronRanger
04-21-2011, 01:14 PM
I was apparently teetering dangerously close to obesity according to my body weight

Yea, that's the problem with scale weight and BMI: they don't account for muscle. Basically, by that standard, everyone's a shapeless blob composed of the same amount of muscle. I have a cousin who's 5'7", 240 pounds. He's "built like a brick shithouse"...he's a slab of muscle with a small gut, but obese by scale weight to height measurements.

If you can't afford veggies, buy some psyllium husk for fiber. Otherwise, unless you're lucky, you'll be passing kidney stones through your butt.

bobbydeniro
04-23-2011, 12:48 AM
Couldn't hack it, guys! Yesterday I felt horrible and unfocused so I had a bowl of oatmeal with protein powder in it, instead of one of my shakes. Felt so much better, and so much fuller, that I was able to stay pretty carb-free for the rest of the day and had tuna mayo 'tacos' with romaine lettuce for dinner, etc. I think my net carbs were something like 55g for the whole day (including the oatmeal), and the calories were the same as if I'd just had shakes.

I blame my 'failure' on a number of factors - lack of appropriate and immediately available high protein foods in the house (thereby making it more difficult to stick to the plan), massive stress due to college finals in a couple of weeks, (the draw of carbs for comfort food is strong!) and the fact that prior to starting the diet I was VERY high carb, so it was a fairly sharp contrast and my body didn't like it.

However, as I understand it, around 50g carbs a day still counts as 'low carb', and I am still getting more than adequate amounts of protein, so I think this means I can stick to this new, adapted diet for a few more weeks than I'd planned. Essentially, I get one high-carb meal in the morning, and then 2 carb-free, protein-full meals later in the day. I'm pretty happy I figured this out, because I seem to have lost inches over the 5 days I did the stricter, carb-free diet and haven't suddenly swelled up after reintroducing carbs.

IronRanger
04-23-2011, 06:48 AM
I think my net carbs were something like 55g for the whole day (including the oatmeal), and the calories were the same as if I'd just had shakes.

50 g is about what's needed for the brain. 50-100g also is in the anti-catabolic range. When calorie restricting, I stay in the 100-125g of carbs range. I feel better mentally and physically. The last time I restricted carbs severely, I felt like I had the flu for 3 weeks - that's the length of time most experts call the "adaptation" period. I felt like I had the flu for 3 weeks. I won't try a keto-style diet ever again.

There's a learning curve for which diet style will work for whom.

As for eating patterns, I love intermittent fasting: Eat, Stop, Eat (ESE), The Warrior Diet (TWD) and LeanGains (LG) are some of the well-known IF diets. I'm currently running LG, but I often combine LG and TWD: I'll fast for 16 hours, then break my fast with a small underfeed meal (usually 1/2 cup cottage cheese and berries) and a protein shake. Repeat and then have a big supper.


Essentially, I get one high-carb meal in the morning, and then 2 carb-free, protein-full meals later in the day.

Yea, this is often referred to as a carb cutoff diet. The biggest thing, with any diet, is a calorie deficit.

bobbydeniro
04-23-2011, 06:54 AM
Yeah, I agree about calorie counting being the big thing overall - I lost all my initial weight eating as many carbs (crackers, sandwiches, cereals, sweets!) as I could fit into my restricted calorie goal, and it worked.

Good to know that eating at 50-ish grams of carbs is sustainable and generally OK. I was feeling like I was going a bit mad back there!

Behemoth
04-23-2011, 11:49 AM
Couldn't hack it, guys! Yesterday I felt horrible and unfocused so I had a bowl of oatmeal with protein powder in it, instead of one of my shakes. Felt so much better, and so much fuller, that I was able to stay pretty carb-free for the rest of the day and had tuna mayo 'tacos' with romaine lettuce for dinner, etc. I think my net carbs were something like 55g for the whole day (including the oatmeal), and the calories were the same as if I'd just had shakes.

I blame my 'failure' on a number of factors - lack of appropriate and immediately available high protein foods in the house (thereby making it more difficult to stick to the plan), massive stress due to college finals in a couple of weeks, (the draw of carbs for comfort food is strong!) and the fact that prior to starting the diet I was VERY high carb, so it was a fairly sharp contrast and my body didn't like it.

However, as I understand it, around 50g carbs a day still counts as 'low carb', and I am still getting more than adequate amounts of protein, so I think this means I can stick to this new, adapted diet for a few more weeks than I'd planned. Essentially, I get one high-carb meal in the morning, and then 2 carb-free, protein-full meals later in the day. I'm pretty happy I figured this out, because I seem to have lost inches over the 5 days I did the stricter, carb-free diet and haven't suddenly swelled up after reintroducing carbs.

People often try to separate dietings psychological effects from it's physiological effects without realize how extremely closely they are tied. Thinking that it is simply about "toughing it out" could not be farther from the truth. You're altering your hormones as you diet and like it or not, just like your body operates different on a diet so does your mind.

bobbydeniro
04-23-2011, 04:04 PM
Agreed! I tend to gravitate towards extremity of some sort, and I'm not going to pretend I haven't been fairly stupid in the past few years and been on some XXXXTREEEEME diets (such as trying to eat as close to nothing as possible, ideally under 500 calories a day) for months on end. These resulted in rapid weight loss and I looked amazing (apart from my hair falling out and my boobs looking like old mens' balls).

I don't know if I've ever really thought about it like this before, but now that I do, I feel that I have verged on anorexia or at least some kind of totally distorted, disordered eating problems. I really don't understand how I did some of those 'diets', though - because in these last few months of getting used to eating sensibly, even this current diet (which Behemoth pointed out, is not that extreme) has been difficult to stick to - how did I ever get through many, many weeks on end surviving on a yogurt and a couple of crackers a day?!!!!

Aaaanyway. I like to think I can practise at least some sort of moderation nowadays, although I am prepared to be disciplined in the process. I like knowing exactly how many calories I am eating, and I must admit I do like to restrict, too. How this is ever going to be conducive to losing body fat whilst maintaining or even building muscle, I don't know!! I guess this has turned into a bit of a self-important ramble, and for that I am sorry. :)

IronRanger
04-23-2011, 04:32 PM
and my boobs looking like old mens' balls

I'll be taking that one to the shower with me.


how did I ever get through many, many weeks on end surviving on a yogurt and a couple of crackers a day?!!!!

In a relationship, or crushin on some guy? hehe...I tend to lean out when I've got my eye on a woman or if I'm in a relationship. Go figure. :D But, when I'm lifting, I focus more on diet, plus I feel happier and more motivated. Right now, I've got some shoulder/back/hip issues and I've gained 10 pounds. Plus, I'm a bit of a dick to be around 'cause I miss lifting so much. It's my one hobby I thoroughly enjoy.


I tend to gravitate towards extremity of some sort

As do I. I think people who lift are more prone to it.

Sean S
04-23-2011, 05:55 PM
Agreed! I tend to gravitate towards extremity of some sort, and I'm not going to pretend I haven't been fairly stupid in the past few years and been on some XXXXTREEEEME diets (such as trying to eat as close to nothing as possible, ideally under 500 calories a day) for months on end. These resulted in rapid weight loss and I looked amazing (apart from my hair falling out and my boobs looking like old mens' balls).

I don't know if I've ever really thought about it like this before, but now that I do, I feel that I have verged on anorexia or at least some kind of totally distorted, disordered eating problems. I really don't understand how I did some of those 'diets', though - because in these last few months of getting used to eating sensibly, even this current diet (which Behemoth pointed out, is not that extreme) has been difficult to stick to - how did I ever get through many, many weeks on end surviving on a yogurt and a couple of crackers a day?!!!!

Aaaanyway. I like to think I can practise at least some sort of moderation nowadays, although I am prepared to be disciplined in the process. I like knowing exactly how many calories I am eating, and I must admit I do like to restrict, too. How this is ever going to be conducive to losing body fat whilst maintaining or even building muscle, I don't know!! I guess this has turned into a bit of a self-important ramble, and for that I am sorry. :)

This sort of bouncing between extremes is very common among women. It's not a stereotype, it's what I have observed in working with people over the years. I believe a huge number of women have eating disorders that would likely be classified "eating disorder not otherwise specified". I have no idea if your behaviors meet that criteria or not, so I'm not trying to diagnose you over the internet. It sounds like you are at least aware of your tendencies, so that's a good start. My advice would be to be very careful with any dietary regimen that is very rigid or restrictive as it can encourage those obsessive diet behaviors if you have that tendency. I've witnessed first-hand how obsession with food can be huge struggle and take years to get a true handle on.
Just be careful with any "get ripped quick" diets as they will work in the short term but may spiral you way off course and require months or more to get back into the middle ground and out of the extremes.

bobbydeniro
04-24-2011, 12:16 PM
I'll be taking that one to the shower with me.

In a relationship, or crushin on some guy?



Funnily enough, yes! It was quite a new relationship back then, so I guess I felt I had to try extra hard to be skin and bones :)


This sort of bouncing between extremes is very common among women. It's not a stereotype, it's what I have observed in working with people over the years. I believe a huge number of women have eating disorders that would likely be classified "eating disorder not otherwise specified".

Yup, I think you're right and no, it's no stereotype - I have seen it both in some of my friends and, more recently, in myself.

I think the problem lies in that I tend to give myself deadlines for losing weight/looking awesome, for example: 'I must have lost X amount by X time, because of this party/event/date/holiday'. Then I feel so much pressure to slim down in however many (or few) weeks I give myself, and restrict too much, eventually failing, every time! I just can't stop - I think it may have to do with the fact that I have a boyfriend who lives in a different city and whom I rarely get to see, so on the rare occasions we do set a date to meet up, I always try very hard to be in better shape than the last time he saw me.

But on the other hand, I'm not altogether sure how to get over this problem - I am a goal-oriented person and tend to work better when I have a specific, very tangible date or target in mind. When people talk about weight loss/fitness being a 'lifestyle change', it seems to take away some of the challenging, competitive aspect of it. Stupid and self-sabotaging, I know, but it's the way my brain seems to work. I think I must have got addicted to the very fast and easy weight loss I first experienced during my initial months of crash dieting, and no longer have the patience or mindset to be able to moderate consistently in the long term.
(This has turned into a bit of a pity-party, sorry!!)

Do any of you have advice on how to beat this silly pattern I've formed? Be aware that I really don't want to have to put on weight by increasing my calories to a 'normal' amount straight away, because I feel like my metabolism has been knocked significantly out of whack by my strange culinary habits over the last year or so, and fear dramatic and dispiriting weight loss would be the result.

Thanks!

Sean S
04-24-2011, 01:09 PM
Here is what I have found to be helpful with people over the years. Granted, it still isn't easy and it will likely take a long time to break those patterns of thinking you have. This is what I would suggest trying to do.
1) Focus your goals on the process, not the end result. Each day or week your goal should be to eat in a way that is healthy and will move you toward a good place both physically and psychologically. If you eat too much or too little you don't meet this goal. Apply this to your exercise as well. If you are continually meeting these behavioral goals, the weight and physique goals will eventually take care of themselves.
2) Think long-term with this stuff (easier said than done, I know). This is truly about a lifelong pursuit, not the next party or event or vacation or whatever. Again, if you are meeting your behavior goals consistently, chances are you will look better at whatever that next event is without obsessing about the event itself.
3) Learn to deal with small setbacks or slips. Many people let one bad meal or one bad day snowball into a week or more of terrible eating and binging. It sounds like you are very "all or nothing" so I suspect you may do this as well. Learn to have a small serving of a dessert or some other "cheat" food without obsessing about it or going crazy. If you do this this only occasionally and keep the portion at least somewhat reasonable, you can eat anything you want (again occasionally) and still stay lean and healthy. One bad meal does not ruin anyone, it's the weeks of bad eating that you let it turn into that is the problem.
4) Pick diet plans that offer tons of flexibility or better yet don't pick a "plan" at all. Make healthy food choices with reasonable portions most of the time and you will be fine. Sometimes these message boards aren't the greatest thing because they cause you obsess about every little detail and feel like your diet has to be perfect all the time.
5) Seek professional help if necessary. There is no shame in this if you continue to struggle to get this stuff under control. I think far more women and men need some professional psychological help in this area than actually go get it. Ideally find someone who has experience with eating disorders (anorexia and bulemia are not the only ones out there.

Again, don't jump from diet to diet to diet. Pick some general dietary principles and stick to them, but don't freak out about one bad day or meal.
Disclaimer: This advice is for the OP here and doesn't necessarily apply to everyone. I'm not a psychologist, but actually an RD who has probably spent as much time in my career talking with people about the psychological and behavior change aspects of diet than about the nuts of bolts of nutrition, so I've certainly seen these behavior patterns before.

Feel free to PM me if you want more specifics.

IronRanger
04-24-2011, 01:14 PM
I'm a bit of a hypocrite for saying this: once you hit your target bodyfat %, monitor it weekly and once it increases to your set high limit, start a cut. This should help with the swings, and give you a quickly achievable goal. Also, set your goals on strength gains, it should focus you on the extremes of lifting heavy weights (remember, kids, always focus on form before adding weight to the bar).

IronRanger
04-24-2011, 01:20 PM
It sounds like you are very "all or nothing" so I suspect you may do this as well. Learn to have a small serving of a dessert or some other "cheat" food without obsessing about it or going crazy.

This is why I love intermittent fasting. Martin Berkhan will sit down and eat an entire cheesecake (he refers to it as "cheesecake mastery"). I think IF is perfect for people who are attracted to extreme eating.

Sean S
04-24-2011, 01:28 PM
This is why I love intermittent fasting. Martin Berkhan will sit down and eat an entire cheesecake (he refers to it as "cheesecake mastery"). I think IF is perfect for people who are attracted to extreme eating.

Maybe and maybe not. The problem I could see with that approach is that many people will let than one big eating session turn into days or weeks on end of that type of eating with no "fasting" portion of the day whatsoever. This probably varies from person to person, so someone with those extreme tendencies may be able to make something like that work if they are aware of their triggers and have things reasonably under control.

bobbydeniro
04-24-2011, 02:08 PM
Maybe and maybe not. The problem I could see with that approach is that many people will let than one big eating session turn into days or weeks on end of that type of eating with no "fasting" portion of the day whatsoever.

This.

Having said that, on many days, I find myself doing some kind of 'intermittent fasting' without meaning to, by just skipping breakfast, or at least having a very late breakfast at what normal people call lunchtime. I end up feeling guilty afterwards though, as my mothers' words about breakfast being 'the most important thing in the whole wide world' reverberate in my head.

Thanks for the replies and advice everyone, this is the first time doing something vaguely sensible diet-wise has seemed like a viable option for me - the key is, obviously, to just learn to move on and continue eating well after a high-calorie day/meal instead of throwing in the proverbial towel and devouring the entire refrigerator. Also, to stop being so rigid as to what is and is not 'allowed' on a diet would make my life a whole lot easier. Hurrah!

Sean S, I will most likely be PM-ing you soon, with questions so frequent and extensive that you'll wish you'd never offered.

bobbydeniro
04-24-2011, 02:16 PM
Unrelated to my original post - recently when I have been lifting, I have had a strange twinge-like pain in the joints of my elbows, most noticeable when I'm on my back doing bench presses, and also when I'm doing tricep work with free weights, standing up with my arms raised and bending at the elbow to lower the plates behind my head (I don't know the technical term for this exercise). It's almost as though something is 'popping' in the joint (on the outer side where the little dimple is), and it certainly doesn't feel natural. I haven't upped my weight drastically or anything, so am wondering if it is a problem with my form? Is there a very incorrect way to hold a barbell or something? Ta.