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storm235
05-19-2011, 08:41 PM
How much protein is the appropriate amount to take? I know its always been 1.5g per 1lb of bodyweight but that seems like alot. I am 230 and that would mean i have to take 345 gms of protein. That seems like alot. If that is true but can't do it everyday, is it better to take in that much on workout or off days???

Dan Fanelli
05-19-2011, 08:55 PM
There are a lot of factors here. Some people prefer to use 1-1.5 g per lb of LEAN MASS, which might work better if you aren't that lean. Another way you can figure it, is take your total calorie needs, fat needs, carb needs, and everything else is protein.

You can also look at protein intake in terms of % of diet. It sounds counter-intuitive, but the leaner you are and the more active you are, the lower the amount of protein you need in terms of %. So fatter, less active individuals need a larger percentage of their diet to be protein, and less to be carbs and fat, but overall just less calories all around.

I dont think 345 is anything crazy for a person your size. Your definately going to need to use supplementation to get their though. 3-4 50g protein shakes and then 3-4 meals of 50-60g and its doable.

Songsangnim
05-19-2011, 08:59 PM
How much protein is the appropriate amount to take? I know its always been 1.5g per 1lb of bodyweight but that seems like alot. I am 230 and that would mean i have to take 345 gms of protein. That seems like alot. If that is true but can't do it everyday, is it better to take in that much on workout or off days???


Actually the gold standard has been 1 gram per 1lb of bodyweight. That would put you at 230 g of protein a day which is a lot more doable and easier on the wallet. As for workout or off days it doesn't matter that much .

Tom Mutaffis
05-20-2011, 08:55 AM
How much protein is the appropriate amount to take? I know its always been 1.5g per 1lb of bodyweight but that seems like alot. I am 230 and that would mean i have to take 345 gms of protein. That seems like alot. If that is true but can't do it everyday, is it better to take in that much on workout or off days???

There are a lot of different formulas that people use but I generally consume about one gram per pound of bodyweight; with diet the most important thing is consistency.

bighollow99
05-21-2011, 05:46 AM
i am pretty big guy and I usually consume 1.2g of protein for body weight. sometimes you have to smell bad to look good. eating a lot of protein can give you a lot of gas

joey54
05-21-2011, 07:46 AM
1.3765 gms per lb of bw if under 200 lbs

1.8376 per lb of bw if between 201- 283.74 lbs

2.1459 per lb of bw if 283.75 lbs or over

Dan Fanelli
05-21-2011, 09:14 AM
1.3765 gms per lb of bw if under 200 lbs

1.8376 per lb of bw if between 201- 283.74 lbs

2.1459 per lb of bw if 283.75 lbs or over

These formulas look good, but what if you are 200.5 lbs?

Off Road
05-21-2011, 09:32 AM
These formulas look good, but what if you are 200.5 lbs?
Seriously? Half a pound?
If you want to continue to gain, obviously you'd go to the higher level.

Dan Fanelli
05-21-2011, 10:55 AM
Seriously? Half a pound?
If you want to continue to gain, obviously you'd go to the higher level.

It was sarcasm.... His model didn't have a guidline for people between 200-201lbs.

Off Road
05-21-2011, 11:37 AM
It was sarcasm....
I know it was. And I think joey's guidelines are a little too sarcastic too... fractional percents? Who needs to be that accurate?

joey54
05-21-2011, 04:24 PM
If you are over 200, go to 201.

chris mason
05-21-2011, 06:24 PM
Something I think people need to be reminded of is that suggestion is total protein intake from all food and drink, NOT just supplements. Nearly everything we eat has protein, and 300g of protein is only 1,200 calories. If you are 230 lbs you are likely consuming at least 3,500 per day and likely a lot more, so that would mean that on the low end it was 34% of your total intake. That really isn't hard to do in the Western world.

Invain
05-21-2011, 06:30 PM
It's really hard to tell, depends on so many different factors. Try 1 gram per pound for a month, then switch to 1.5 grams per pound the next month and see if there's any difference. It all comes down to nitrogen balance and amino acid intake vs breakdown. If you're eating way more protein than necessary, it's not harmful, just a waste, as protein is usually the most expensive macro nutrient. If you're not eating enough protein however, you are severely undercutting all your efforts in the gym, as you cannot repair muscle without amino acids.

ZAR-FIT
05-23-2011, 12:51 AM
It's really hard to tell, depends on so many different factors. Try 1 gram per pound for a month, then switch to 1.5 grams per pound the next month and see if there's any difference. It all comes down to nitrogen balance and amino acid intake vs breakdown. If you're eating way more protein than necessary, it's not harmful, just a waste, as protein is usually the most expensive macro nutrient. If you're not eating enough protein however, you are severely undercutting all your efforts in the gym, as you cannot repair muscle without amino acids.

I agree with Invain, nitrogen balance is key! So whatever your total protein amount is you want to make sure that it is split evenly throughout all your meals... I'd say within 5 grams +/- just throwing out a number. That way you're constantly and consitantly feeding the muscle.

Alex.V
05-24-2011, 11:06 AM
I would start at 0.8 grams per day of lean body mass. Then over the next two weeks I would slowly increase to 1 gram per day of lean mass. If, through careful methods of data collection (possibly including self-dissection), you are noting that nitrogen balance is not ideal and your overall fat free mass in relation to body mass is not increasing favorably, then I would say go as high as 1.2 grams per pound of lean body mass, possibly utiziling 1.3 grams per pound of skeletal muscle and 1.15 for all other kinds of non-fat body mass.

Of course, don't forget to take into account protein utilization ratios and speed of digestion. Also bear in mind that animo acid release profiles are far more prone to fluctuations based on other food in your system, enzyme concentrations, etc. than they are influenced by type of protein. (whey, casein, etc.).

Trial and error over the next five years should generally bring you to the conclusion that all these measurements mean fuck all, and you should just generally try to eat a good amount of lean meats, drink protein supps if you really have the extra money, and otherwise spend the time you'd normally spend next to your food scale either in the gym lifting some god damn weight or doing other things, like working for a living.

Good luck.

Alex.V
05-24-2011, 11:08 AM
PS- if you spend your time thinking about nitrogen balance, you're thinking too much. If you ever accidentally say or speak those words, go do three sets of deadlifts and eat five eggs as penalty.

Imagine the effect this would have on the internet?

Off Road
05-24-2011, 01:20 PM
spend the time you'd normally spend next to your food scale either in the gym lifting some god damn weight or doing other things, like working for a living.


PS- if you spend your time thinking about nitrogen balance, you're thinking too much. If you ever accidentally say or speak those words, go do three sets of deadlifts and eat five eggs as penalty.

Imagine the effect this would have on the internet?


Posts of the year right there...
Too bad most will ignore it because they have to make this crap so damned complicated.

4g64fiero
05-24-2011, 01:28 PM
OP....keep it 1:1 then lift consistently on a balanced program for a year. After that, you will have a better idea of what affects you in your diet.

Behemoth
05-25-2011, 12:45 PM
There's nothing wrong with wanting to understand what would be most optimal in an extremely specific scenario (in this case the ratio of protein intake : lean mass or total bodyweight). But the wisdom is in understanding what exactly is just not worth wasting your time being anal about (as belial said). But one doesn't get to the latter without first understanding the former.

The OP's question has merit and shouldn't be dismissed as irrational. But I do agree that if he only wants to know so that he can practice exactly what he's told then it's a moot point.

To the OP - I've used some extremely high protein intakes in my day and I've used so more modest bodybuilder protein intakes. My belief is though it is individual, protein needs [for a natural trainee] are massively over exaggerated due to anabolics and those who use them reaping benefits of higher intakes.

arctic
05-30-2011, 08:50 AM
I agree with everything everyone has posted.

OP, I've attached the following formula to help you with your goal. God speed.

http://i1089.photobucket.com/albums/i344/arcticbodybuilder/cubic.gif

http://www.math.vanderbilt.edu/~schectex/courses/cubic/

ataglance
06-01-2011, 04:47 PM
Depends on your body type i suppose.

Im more of a meso/endo so i need at least 1.5g per pound. Im 215 atm so getting in around 320 or so grams daily.

Dont think your count is that abnormal, but you will have to wake up early to get in numerous meals to get that protein intake in.

Again, depends on the body type and how lean you already are.

Invain
06-02-2011, 07:05 PM
PS- if you spend your time thinking about nitrogen balance, you're thinking too much. If you ever accidentally say or speak those words, go do three sets of deadlifts and eat five eggs as penalty.

Imagine the effect this would have on the internet?

Yeah, everybody would be over-trained and have developed an egg intolerance.

Every 5 hours I take samples of my urine and test for levels of urea. I then calculate how much nitrogen I'm expending and adjust my intake for the next 5 hour period accordingly.

LAM
06-05-2011, 12:58 AM
I have always based my macros and caloric intake off the amount of fat free mass and not total body weight. nutrient partitioning is different if one is 10% bf or 20% at 200lbs along with overall daily energy requirements.

Alex.V
06-05-2011, 02:38 PM
Yeah, everybody would be over-trained and have developed an egg intolerance.


I dunno man, most people I know don't say those words all that often.

Then again, I know mostly normal people.

joey54
06-05-2011, 08:34 PM
Regardless of what the optimum amount is, which I clearly was joking about in the earlier post, great way to ensure you meet your daily protein requirements is through a quality protein powder. At Large Nutrition provides several options for protein supplementation, which includes Nitrean, Nitrean+, and Opticen.

amonroe
06-10-2011, 02:37 PM
Aim for 1g per 1 lb - there are a lot of different theories on this and to be completely honest, I think it's different for different people. Experiment and see whats best for you...

dynamo
06-13-2011, 09:20 AM
what i do, is eat a high protein diet, and eat until i am full. Its mostly paleo, but I'm not a douche about grains, if its taboo or disrespectful to abstain from the grain I won't.

On the other hand all my meals I prepare are lean meats and veggies with low glycemic indices, like carrots, green beans, brussel sprouts, certain squash. I don't count calories any more, and I don't force food down my throat unless its a protein shake I have made. I have lost about a pound of weight per week for the past few weeks, and I am starting to lean out really well (also running 4x week 15-30 minutes depending on the day).

Its not as fast as a body builder would lose weight, but I haven't lost any strength, and haven't noticed a reduction in muscle mass. So I would say diet is key, preferably, a high protein diet with some way to replenish your glycogen (low glycemic carbs) and make sure you have all the proper vitamins and minerals coming in as well. I also found with myself that if I can avoid fats and high glycemic index carbs at the same time I do a much better job of cutting the weight. with all that said, I do cheat once a week or two weeks, with some tasty junk food or something more often than not it actually energizes me to continue eating in a paleoesque style mostly because I feel like sh-- afterwards even though my body was craving that crap. Hope this helps, I'm at work now (aka kind of scatter brained), but if you want me to flesh any of this out I can later tonight.

fyi, typical lunch is about a pound of veggies and meat. I'll cook up 5-7 pounds of meat and 2-3 pounds of veggies in a crock pot on sunday and use that as lunch, and sometimes dinner, through out the week.
This week was:
7 pounds of chicken breast with the fat drained off
2.5 pounds of carrots
pound of artichokes
bunch of garlic
28 oz canned tomatoes
24 ounces (before cooking) of uncured bacon with the fat drained off of that too.