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View Full Version : Raw squat vs geared squat form differences



Kevin K
05-26-2011, 07:48 AM
So I was watching EliteFTS's SYTYCS videos and Matt Wenning was telling all of the things that the guy is doing wrong. One of the things he mentions is "knees going forward". I was watching some videos of raw squatting and geared squatting and one thing I noticed is with geared squatting the lifter sits back. When raw squatting the lifter's knees go forward.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T26_-Y72Rpk
In this video Chuck is sitting back.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C8HyDzV0KU4
In this video I noticed how CWS's knees go forward.

Any opinions would be helpful. I squat raw and I'm trying to figure out why my squat sucks.

AdamBAG
05-26-2011, 08:03 AM
A geared squat out of a monolift is almost always going to be from a much wider stance than a walked out raw squat. Also, Chuck is one of the widest squatters there is. If you are that wide, there is no way your knees are going to come forward.

If you have a closer stance you are going to get more travel of the knees forward with most lifters.

There are a few guys out there that squat wide when they squat raw (Shae Jones is one) and they don't get much travel of the knee forward.

Kevin K
05-26-2011, 08:13 AM
Thanks Adam. I squat in a rack and when I bring my feet out wide ( a few inches past shoulder width) my feet touch the base of the rack and I don't feel like this is a good squat position. Since I am raw, for now, should I squat like CWS. Would there be anything wrong with squatting like this?

Sean S
05-26-2011, 09:06 AM
With a raw SQ, a moderate width stance with some modest forward knee travel is fine and actually puts many people in the strongest position to SQ. Provided the forward knee travel doesn't dump everything forward or cause you to shift the weigh to your toes, it's probably fine. Even with the moderate or narrow stance, push your knees out hard as this will help engage the hips and help prevent any forward knee travel from becoming excessive. You could also take a look at videos of Scott Yard or Jim Wendler squatting raw since they both have raw SQ form that would work well for most people. The CWS video above seems to have more forward knee travel than most, but that's likely due to the fact that he is pretty tall and thus movements seem more pronounced compared to someone who is more compact.

IronDiggy
05-26-2011, 09:10 AM
Nope. I squat similar to CWS geared and raw. I however only squat single ply. Not quite the same thing as most that squat out of a mono.

SEOINAGE
05-26-2011, 09:55 AM
I noticed lately I either have to squat really wide or barely past shoulder width, the in between just doesn't work. I like wide because I am able to keep my knees out further, and my glutes tighter, and can squat more.

CrazyEyesPat
05-26-2011, 10:06 AM
i 2nd this---- imo a multi-ply squat is a LOT different than a raw squat--- and those i know who try to take the same wide position/sitting way back raw as they do w/ gear-- can't squat diddly shit raw. for me raw is very slightly wider than shoulder width, back, and then straight down. W/ gear on--- it's wide, sit way the frick back, and then back up.

SELK
05-26-2011, 11:37 AM
I squat geared and raw exactly the same way, my best geared is 903 and best raw is 650 x 3.

The reason why I squat like this, is that I learned how to squat from a geared powerlifter and continued to squat that way, raw, for years, including a few runs of smolov. This works well for me because I use alot of raw work to bring up my geared squat and I don't have to change my form. If I was to enter a raw meet I may change things up.

I think the squat is alot like the deadlift in the sense that you just have to find what works for you. Some people will squat more narrower and pretty much doing a good morning, while others are better off going wide and staying upright.

mastermonster
05-26-2011, 02:19 PM
I squat geared and raw exactly the same way, my best geared is 903 and best raw is 650 x 3.

The reason why I squat like this, is that I learned how to squat from a geared powerlifter and continued to squat that way, raw, for years, including a few runs of smolov. This works well for me because I use alot of raw work to bring up my geared squat and I don't have to change my form. If I was to enter a raw meet I may change things up.

I think the squat is alot like the deadlift in the sense that you just have to find what works for you. Some people will squat more narrower and pretty much doing a good morning, while others are better off going wide and staying upright.

Agreed. I've squatted exremely wide for years in multi-ply. So, those are the muscle groups that are most dominant on me. I don't alter my form to squat raw or single ply now that I've started competing all 3 ways the last 2-3 years. My best multi-ply squat has been 955 (gym) - single 804 (meet) - raw 650 (meet). As a side note; all 3 of these were out of monolifts. It is very difficult for me to walk out to the same width with more than 700. It gets risky! I've only done it at 2 meets. The 1st RUM meet, and 2006 USPF Nationals. I probably made the spotters very nervous!

Kevin K
05-26-2011, 05:34 PM
Thanks for all your opinions! CrazyEyesPat summed up why my squat sucks. Next week I'll change my form and see what happens.

ScottYard
05-26-2011, 05:42 PM
Sitting back is a geared term. Try it raw and youll fall over. theree no suit to sit into. I wear olympic shoes and that alleviates a good bit of the forward shin lean. Im not saying its impossible but to me its more importtant to focus on your arch and being upright raw