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View Full Version : Why you shouldn't Dirty Bulk



ripped87
06-03-2011, 01:48 PM
Great video with science and explanations.

RsNRG1Q0Iog

mchicia1
06-03-2011, 02:19 PM
Good vid and I agree 100%, although the speaker isn't exactly the model of a bodybuilder yet hes talking shit on people who bulk to get bigger. I just found that ironic. Talks about trying to "look like you work out" yet doesn't look like hes ever picked up a weight.

Off Road
06-03-2011, 03:54 PM
There's a lot of that going on lately. I think he just jumped on the bandwagon.

RichMcGuire
06-03-2011, 03:57 PM
I donno, hes wearing a pretty baggy - ish jacket. Its not a good indicator to compare how muscular he is or anything like that, lol. Some people look "okay" with jackets or bigger shirts but totally transform when they pose or even wear a 'wife-beater'. People just dont get that. Besides that, how credible would some huge guy taking steroids like water be for most of us anyways? ;)

I liked the research provided and agree mostly. The only comment I would have is that there were no lines drawn. Things like, what is fat? How much fat does it take for these negative effects to occur? Is it individual and does it vary with genetics? But I really like the general message.

krazylarry
06-03-2011, 05:43 PM
You need calories to grow, Try getting 6000-10000 calories a day eating clean...

mchicia1
06-03-2011, 05:59 PM
You need calories to grow, Try getting 6000-10000 calories a day eating clean...

Who the hell needs 10,000 to grow? Maybe Ronnie in his prime?

RichMcGuire
06-03-2011, 07:52 PM
Nope, he got about 6 :P

Mercuryblade
06-04-2011, 02:33 AM
Who the hell needs 10,000 to grow? Maybe Ronnie in his prime?

Maybe if Ronnie had sex with a blue whale that took steroids and was a powerlifter.

f=ma
06-04-2011, 07:36 AM
i bet there are some guys carrying a lot of muscle with ridiculous metabolisms that would required 6-7k. berfles from here comes to mind.. i dont know if he ever hit 6k consistently but im pretty sure he was 5k+ measured cals/day

Off Road
06-04-2011, 07:49 AM
Allen Cress eats some pretty high calorie meals during different parts of the year.

ThomasG
06-04-2011, 08:54 AM
Haha I cut on 4,000 calories all the way down to 194lbs. Yes I weigh/measure my food.

BallsWideDeep
06-04-2011, 09:00 AM
I was maintaining 192lbs at 4400 calories at over 15% BF. I am a newbie to weight lifting, but I'm 27. I believe there are definitely people who need 6000+ calories.

Phenom
06-04-2011, 05:00 PM
When you see those "stupid" dirty bulkers squatting 600, 700, 800+ pounds, yeah, I'd say it looks like they work out.

mchicia1
06-04-2011, 05:05 PM
When you see those "stupid" dirty bulkers squatting 600, 700, 800+ pounds, yeah, I'd say it looks like they work out.

I am sure they are a model of health too.

Dan Fanelli
06-04-2011, 06:11 PM
When you see those "stupid" dirty bulkers squatting 600, 700, 800+ pounds, yeah, I'd say it looks like they work out.

I gotta agree. There are has been so much talk in the past few years of "clean bulking" or "lean gains" and then these threads. Im guessing its going to be beneficial for a small number of people that would have dirty bulked themselves into being too fat.

But more importantly, I think this mindset is going to hold back a HUGE population of skinny guys, and skinny fat guys. This fear of losing hot abz and suddenly becoming fat is not productive to those that NEED to eat a ton to gain weight.

RichMcGuire
06-04-2011, 06:58 PM
When you see those "stupid" dirty bulkers squatting 600, 700, 800+ pounds, yeah, I'd say it looks like they work out.

Not when they dont have any weight on their back..

RichMcGuire
06-04-2011, 07:01 PM
Why people cant have a middle of the road approach I will never know. You dont have to stay super lean but you dont have to become a fat ass because you think your metabolism is just sooooo fast!

mchicia1
06-04-2011, 07:03 PM
I gotta agree. There are has been so much talk in the past few years of "clean bulking" or "lean gains" and then these threads. Im guessing its going to be beneficial for a small number of people that would have dirty bulked themselves into being too fat.

But more importantly, I think this mindset is going to hold back a HUGE population of skinny guys, and skinny fat guys. This fear of losing hot abz and suddenly becoming fat is not productive to those that NEED to eat a ton to gain weight.

No, it is actually refreshing to see people actual caring about their appearance for once. There are still going to be just as many skinny guys, skinny-fat guys, and dirty bulkers who think all their size is muscle.

As for the PLing argument and people squatting 6,7,800 lbs...there is a reason Matt Kroc is the best 220 of all time. Because he carries the most muscle mass of any 220 pounder. Why? Because he watches his diet and doesn't just stuff his face with 9 double cheeseburgers because he is "bulking". He stays lean. Also, people argue that bulking up increases your lifts at a dramatic rate (some truth). Yeah, because your leverages are improving, not because you are gaining immense amount of muscle.

Dirty bulking is just the term *LAZY* people use who still have the desire to get strong but don't have the dedication or patience to set up an actual diet that will help them gain solid mass while keeping their BF% at a respectable level.

I used to dirty bulk and it was simply because I was LAZY AS HELL. I really loved working out (the EASY part). I didn't have enough dedication to put 100% effort into the diet part, so I got strong and fat instead of just strong and muscular.

Look around your gym sometime. What do you see? You see the same people 99% of the time you workout because they are dedicated enough to keep going to the gym 3-5 days a week. Too bad it requires a 24/7 effort to attain a good physique..that is why you see those same 99% of guys looking exactly the same after a year (or fat as hell) because they won't take the time to setup a good mass gaining diet.



Here is the real bottom line guys, and hopefully this helps bring my point across of why I am so against dirty bulking and this concept that you need 1 million calories to gain muscle and strength.

***NONE**** of us on here other than the sponsored guys (WHO ARE PROS by the way and are MAKING MONEY from their incredible strength) are going to break any records in the squat, deadlift, or bench...so why the HELL are us average joes, who haven't been given any genetic gifts, eating so much just so we can bring up those 3 lifts? Who gives a flying fuck if any of us on here gained 50 pounds (read 40 lbs fat, 10 lbs muscle) in a year and brought our bench up to 350-405 or squat to 500. Ok maybe you will be amazed at your accomplishment. Ok congrats, you are now an average-dime-a-dozen intermediate level "powerlifter" who has high blood pressure,gets winded walking up the stairs, and has erectile dysfunction.

I fully believe ANYONE can attain a 405 bench, a 500 squat, and a 600 deadlift, no matter what their genetics are. Do you think you have to be a complete fat, 25-30% BF guy to reach that level? HELL NO. It just cracks me up that the natty "dirty" bulkers on here have such a naive perception of how much muscle they actually gained.

Wouldn't you rather have a GREAT Physique AND be able to put up numbers like that? BECAUSE ANYONE CAN DO THAT WITH DEDICATION AS LONG AS THEY ARE CONSISTENT AND ARE ABLE TO PREVENT INJURIES. Hell, I am getting close to the 500 squat and 600 deadlift after only 3.5 years of training and I have AWFUL genetics for gaining muscle and was given no natural strength AT ALL and I have shitty leverages. The funny part is, I have been destroying the log book lately at 25 pounds lighter than 3 months ago. Yeah that fat was really helping me!

mchicia1
06-04-2011, 07:17 PM
There is a reason Tim, Rory, and invain were chosen for the being real article.

Because they are just average guys (like 99% of us on here) who fucking work their asses off on their diet as well as their training and look what the finished product is. Three strong as HELL guys who look fucking GOOD.

ThomasG is another one...stays lean and is strong as balls.

Phenom
06-04-2011, 07:43 PM
No, it is actually refreshing to see people actual caring about their appearance for once.

For once? Are you high? Appearance is all anybody ever cares about. Looking good so girls will want to screw them. That's 99% of the people who take an interest in weight lifting. It's the ones who aren't able to break their emotional ties and alarming obsession with their abs, pecs, and biceps that persistently preach clean bulking. If you're going to generalize dirty bulkers as people who are simply lazy, then I'm going to generalize clean bulkers as lifters who don't like the fact that the guys around them training to get as strong as possible (and not for the approval of women or perhaps the other men that they would like to display their muscles to) are getting much stronger than they are, and they want to see those guys make as slow strength/size gains as them. So with a scare tactic effort they swear that everybody needs to clean bulk to "maintain yur hawt abdominalz"

Just a thought :thumbup:

mchicia1
06-04-2011, 07:49 PM
For once? Are you high? Appearance is all anybody ever cares about. Looking good so girls will want to screw them. That's 99% of the people who take an interest in weight lifting. It's the ones who aren't able to break their emotional ties and alarming obsession with their abs, pecs, and biceps that persistently preach clean bulking. If you're going to generalize dirty bulkers as people who are simply lazy, then I'm going to generalize clean bulkers as lifters who don't like the fact that the guys around them training to get as strong as possible (and not for the approval of women or perhaps the other men that they would like to display their muscles to) are getting much stronger than they are, and they want to see those guys make as slow strength/size gains as them. So with a scare tactic effort they swear that everybody needs to clean bulk to "maintain yur hawt abdominalz"

Just a thought :thumbup:

It is also a generalization to say that the people dirty bulking are getting stronger than the people who are smart about their diet.

And no I am not high , most people on here only care about their big 3 numbers. This is definitely not a bodybuilding forum.

And just to be clear, I am not saying you need to stay ridiculously lean all year round. I still believe you need a caloric surplus. My post is geared towards those who honestly believe 10 pounds in a month is the best way to do things.

Phenom
06-04-2011, 07:50 PM
It is also a generalization to say that the people dirty bulking are getting stronger than the people who are smart about their diet.

And no I am not high , most people on here only care about their big 3 numbers. This is definitely not a bodybuilding forum.

Believe it or not, WBB is not the extent of the weight lifting population. I wasn't talking about 99% of WBB only caring about appearance so that's my mistake if I was vague about that. Most of the members on this forum are a component of that 1% that hasn't lost sight of the top priority of strength training. And I personally like that a lot about this forum.

Phenom
06-04-2011, 07:58 PM
And can I just add something regarding the myth that the dork in the video is talking about. He said that the myth states that "you need junk food..."

I don't ever recall anybody saying junk food is necessary. When I think of junk food I think candy, ice cream, cake, donuts, etc. Not pizza, burgers, french fries, sausage, fried chicken.

But of course this is all dependent on a person's definition of junk food. So this post is essentially useless.

Off Road
06-04-2011, 08:00 PM
Seriously, it's enough already. People have different goals and different ways to reach them. Idolize anybody you want, just don't expect everybody to agree with you.This whole lean bulk/dirty bulk civil war is getting stupid.

Just go to the gym and lift something heavy. You'll all feel better.

mchicia1
06-04-2011, 08:04 PM
Believe it or not, WBB is not the extent of the weight lifting population. I wasn't talking about 99% of WBB only caring about appearance so that's my mistake if I was vague about that. Most of the members on this forum are a component of that 1% that hasn't lost sight of the top priority of strength training. And I personally like that a lot about this forum.

It was a little vague on Dan's post actually, I wasn't sure what he was referring to (just here locally or entire lifting population). My 99% was just people on here because this is really the only site I go to (other than IM).

It is refreshing on the strength aspect, I agree...
And I still train with heavy weights every time I set foot in the gym.

The thing is, you can get freaky strong without AAS and still look like you lift weights, that is really just the point I am trying to get across.

I like how Rich made a point of going some where in the middle.

Anyway, this has kind of run it's course, I said what I wanted to say in my long post and I still abide by that.

Dan Fanelli
06-04-2011, 09:50 PM
Why people cant have a middle of the road approach I will never know. You dont have to stay super lean but you dont have to become a fat ass because you think your metabolism is just sooooo fast!

THIS.... Also, why not do what YOU want to do, and what works for YOU. This is also in regards to Mchicia's post following this one. Regardless of whether you are going to set records or not with your lifts, shouldn't determine what you are willing to sacrifice to hit PR's.


And my above post was in regards to my experience, and observations with MANY others. For me, breaking the 185-190lb range was not easy. I had to "dirty bulk" to get above 200. And I probably took it to far when I got all the way up to 218 (about a 25-30lb weight gain in 4-6 months). A good portion of this was muscle, and a good portion of it was fat. But also a lot of it was just glycogen and water, so it wasn't the end of the world. But for ME, I have always had such a hard time gaining weight, and I decided I was just gonna do whatever it took to put the weight on and I did it. There was no looking back, and I have no regrets.

This might not be the best method if you going to step out on stage, or out in a bikini anytime soon, but it worked, and it was the only thing I could get to work. I still would advocate this method for anyone that hasn't been able to make progress or gain weight. For these people, I would never recommend limiting your progress because of some theoretical broscience that says you can only gain 6lbs of "lean muscle per year" or .25lbs per week, or whatever it is.

***Oh, and as a side note, I think these threads are a bit confusing, because people are vague or misusing the term "dirty bulk". To me, 'dirty bulking' is more about WHAT foods you are including, and they tend to be ones that are more caloricly dense, and less filling. Beef over chicken, Eggs over egg whites, PB&Js, etc. For me, these "dirty" foods were needed to hit the amount of calories I needed to gain weight.

So I dont think the RATE of bulk is necessarily what makes it dirty, but the food selection. Regardless of those semantics, I agree to some extend with what others are saying about "dirty bulking" and trying to gain weight too quickly. Sure, if you can consistantly and slowly put on weight so that its mainly lean muscle, then thats probably your best option. But if this isn't working too well, then you might just have to set a target weight goal, and do whatever you have to in order to reach it. Fat gain is NOT the end of the world. You can lose it later.

Songsangnim
06-04-2011, 10:03 PM
I think Madcow said it best (I'm paraphrasing not quoting.)

Clean bulking is not essential to gaining strength and size although it might be critical for a long and healthy life.

No program will work if you don't eat enough. If you can get all your calories from clean foods so much the better...but it's not a unbreakable rule or even a rule if it comes to that.

I agree. It all depends on what's important to you and what your capabilities are in regards to reaching your goals.

justiNCSU
06-05-2011, 11:14 AM
Also, people argue that bulking up increases your lifts at a dramatic rate (some truth). Yeah, because your leverages are improving, not because you are gaining immense amount of muscle.

Could you explain what you mean by this one?

4g64fiero
06-05-2011, 01:26 PM
Could you explain what you mean by this one?

I believe he is implying that the extra size reduces one's ROM which is true whether or not its muscle. Thus, the lifter can lift more.


Am I the only one that thinks an indiviual needs to experiment and find out what the optimum range for said trainee is? I think people are cutting themselves short if they dont learn to isolate and monitor the effects of changes to their diet.