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colinS3
06-14-2011, 02:38 PM
I've never been serious enough to change my diet around or take supplements, but starting this summer I'm planning on changing that. Here's a very general outline of what I'm thinking of doing, and it needs work.

Slight caloric surplus (gaining 2-3 pounds a month)
1g of protein for every 1g of lean body mass
- I'm going to use this at first, then after my first month or two I'll go up to 1.5g of protein. If I see any difference I'll keep it at 1.5 or increase it by smaller increments until I feel like I'm getting the right amount of protein. I think that's a good way to go about finding a good individualized amount of protein.
Pre-Workout Supplement before workouts
Protein shake after workouts
Somewhere in the neighborhood of 5-7 meals each day

Not too specific, I know, but that's the general plan I'm going to start out with (and change accordingly). There are a few things that I'd like to ask. First off, do you recommend supplements like creatine? If you don't, why not? Just curious.

Secondly, I hear a lot about fish oil pills and other things of that nature. Is that necessary or could I just have a few servings of nuts instead? Or do the fish oil pills give you much more nutrients than a few servings of nuts?

And lastly, what percentage of protein/carbs/fats do you recommend for building lean muscle. For athletes I've heard it's good to be 1:1 or 1:2 with protein:carbs (well, endurance athletes) and have fat be the smallest percentage of the three. I won't be doing much distance running for a while, but I would still like to stay lean and conditioned if that helps you guys give me a recommended ratio for building muscle. I also know it won't be a golden ratio that I'll always be able to follow. I just need an idea of where to start, that's all.

Thanks for the help guys

Off Road
06-14-2011, 02:55 PM
If you are really serious, I'd look at ordering some Results.

Behemoth
06-14-2011, 03:13 PM
You're asking for fine tuning but don't have anything to go off of. Eat the 1g/ lb LBM protein. Make sure your caloric surplus is consistent. Monitor your progress.

Fish oil is a necessity IMO.

colinS3
06-14-2011, 04:01 PM
If you are really serious, I'd look at ordering some Results.

Thanks for the recommendation, I'll definitely check it out. I wish supplements weren't so expensive, but oh well. I have a job this summer so I shouldn't have any problems covering it.


You're asking for fine tuning but don't have anything to go off of. Eat the 1g/ lb LBM protein. Make sure your caloric surplus is consistent. Monitor your progress.

Fish oil is a necessity IMO.

I suppose, but I'm also asking for some basic recommendations that will help me get started on the right track. I didn't want to start off wrong only to realize it weeks or months later and then have to change things up. You have much more experience under your belt than I do so I'll trust your opinion on the fish oil. As for the advice on diet, thanks. I'll make sure to monitor my diet and progress as best I can.

Off Road
06-14-2011, 04:41 PM
Thanks for the recommendation, I'll definitely check it out. I wish supplements weren't so expensive, but oh well. I have a job this summer so I shouldn't have any problems covering it.If it were me, I'd skip the pre-workout supplement and spend the money on something else. But I'm not a fan. If you can't get yourself up to lift, then maybe it's not the hobby for you :)

ZAR-FIT
06-14-2011, 05:32 PM
creatine is great. no reason not to use it. and its cheap. a 1:1 ration pro/carb will definately keep you leaner than a 1:2 ratio. but what i would do is make the 1:1 ration a total for the day, not a ratio for every meal. Have larger carb meals around your workouts and lower carb meals when less active. for example, your post workout meal may be 1 : 1.5 and your meal before bed may be 1 : 0.5. but it will equal out to 1:1 over the day.
And like OFF ROAD said... Results is an amazing post workout supplement. I personally Love it. I have 2-3 scoops after every workout.

colinS3
06-14-2011, 05:48 PM
If it were me, I'd skip the pre-workout supplement and spend the money on something else. But I'm not a fan. If you can't get yourself up to lift, then maybe it's not the hobby for you :)

Haha an excellent point. I'm just interested in the growth the supplements help give, the actual lifting is no problem for me! The more work it takes the better I feel afterwards :). From what you've told me and from the threads I checked out, I think I'll just use Results as a post workout supplement. Besides that I'll rely on protein in whole foods to get the right amount. It shouldn't be too hard to get 1g protein for every 1 lb LBM since I weigh so little right now haha.


creatine is great. no reason not to use it. and its cheap. a 1:1 ration pro/carb will definately keep you leaner than a 1:2 ratio. but what i would do is make the 1:1 ration a total for the day, not a ratio for every meal. Have larger carb meals around your workouts and lower carb meals when less active. for example, your post workout meal may be 1 : 1.5 and your meal before bed may be 1 : 0.5. but it will equal out to 1:1 over the day.
And like OFF ROAD said... Results is an amazing post workout supplement. I personally Love it. I have 2-3 scoops after every workout.

Yes that's a great idea. Trying to get 1:1 for every meal would be too troublesome in my opinion. Plus, the more carbs around my actual workout will help to provide that long term energy when I really need it. Thanks for the tip!

Dan Fanelli
06-14-2011, 06:39 PM
I'll give my crude recommendations that I would for anyone in your shoes(I know others are going to disagree, but whatever). Its hard to be specific, because you didn't give much specifics, but these are the general rules i'd follow.

*Focus on getting the calories you need to move toward your desired weight, while eating "clean" foods over "dirty" foods when possible.
*Just as important if not more important than the calories will be your macros. There is a lot of variety here, but protein will be the most important. I'd start MUCH higher than 1g/lb of lean mass. Just start out with 250-300g and stick to that. As for fats and carbs, this will be even more individual. Just start out with a moderate amount of both and both coming from good sources. Adjust from there and see what happens.

But basically this would likely start out as a 40/30/30 type diet. Depending on your activity level and genetics, the carbs and fat might switch around a bit, and the protein may come down, but this basic starting point would serve most people. I'd keep carbs under 250g starting out for the average active person.

Supplements: (in order of importance-my opinions)
Protein powder
Multi-vitamin
caffeine
creatine
fish oil
BCAA (optional but could be very important)
Magnesium/Zince (same)

Other than all of that, sleep, rest and recovery are just as important.

Behemoth
06-14-2011, 07:40 PM
1:1 ration pro/carb will definately keep you leaner than a 1:2 ratio.

... why's that

ZAR-FIT
06-14-2011, 10:56 PM
... why's that

assuming fats are same in both cases... if he were to eat 300 grams pro a day... he would certainly stay leaner eating 300 grams carbs vs. 600 grams carbs a day...

Dan Fanelli
06-14-2011, 11:35 PM
... why's that

Insulin.... Lipogenesis.....

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/nutrition/how-many-carbohydrates-do-you-need.html

Unless a person is exercising very frequently and performing a ton of work, there is no reason to not START out with less than 250g per day. Certainly overfat individuals and those that dont train frequently should not be taking in more than 250g and in many instances <100-150g is probably better. Carbohydrates are NOT essential, and by logic they should thus NOT take priority in ones diet. Yet this is often not the case.

Having said all of that, carbohydrate tolerance and "needs" is VERY individual. The range of possible intakes that can and will work optimally could range from 0g to around 600g+ per day depending on the individual and the circumstances

But really, it all comes back to Insulin and Lipogenesis.

Behemoth
06-14-2011, 11:37 PM
assuming fats are same in both cases... if he were to eat 300 grams pro a day... he would certainly stay leaner eating 300 grams carbs vs. 600 grams carbs a day...



I figured that's what you meant initially, your wording was just misleading as it's not the ratio of protein to carbs, it's merely the total combined amount.

Behemoth
06-14-2011, 11:39 PM
Insulin.... Lipogenesis.....

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/nutrition/how-many-carbohydrates-do-you-need.html

Unless a person is exercising very frequently and performing a ton of work, there is no reason to not START out with less than 250g per day. Certainly overfat individuals and those that dont train frequently should not be taking in more than 250g and in many instances <100-150g is probably better. Carbohydrates are NOT essential, and by logic they should thus NOT take priority in ones diet. Yet this is often not the case.

Having said all of that, carbohydrate tolerance and "needs" is VERY individual. The range of possible intakes that can and will work optimally could range from 0g to around 600g+ per day depending on the individual and the circumstances

But really, it all comes back to Insulin and Lipogenesis.

This wasn't where I was going with it.

Dan Fanelli
06-14-2011, 11:40 PM
assuming fats are same in both cases... if he were to eat 300 grams pro a day... he would certainly stay leaner eating 300 grams carbs vs. 600 grams carbs a day...

what you are saying is confsusing, because you are talking about an extra 1200kcals....... A better example might be that 100g fat, 300g protein, 600g carbs vs. 100g fat, 600g protein, 300g carbs. You cant without a doubt say that the higher carbs will lead to more fat gain, because in some instances those carbs will be needed, but most instances the higher protein would lead to less fat AND less body weight.

Behemoth
06-14-2011, 11:47 PM
what you are saying is confsusing, because you are talking about an extra 1200kcals....... A better example might be that 100g fat, 300g protein, 600g carbs vs. 100g fat, 600g protein, 300g carbs. You cant without a doubt say that the higher carbs will lead to more fat gain, because in some instances those carbs will be needed, but most instances the higher protein would lead to less fat AND less body weight.

Maybe for the mere fact of the TEF of protein but it's hardly quantifiable amount in comparing any two non-extreme diets.

colinS3
06-15-2011, 07:05 AM
Yeah... I'm just gonna go with the 1:1 ratio of protein and carbs to start out with. The science of it certainly holds its merit, but as all of you always say, everyone is different. After a couple months of 1:1 protein/carb ratio I'll just switch to 1:1.5 or 1:2 carb ratio for another month or two and compare how I feel. Fats would stay around the same level. Gotta experiment with it yourself to find your best numbers, right?

I've already been eating a 1:2 or 1:3 protein/carb ratio diet, but I've also been distance running for a while. I've had plenty of energy in the gym and I've never had any energy problems, but I'm not going to be distance running for a while. Since I'm not distance running, some of the excess carbs are just going to go to waste. So yeah, I think starting at a 1:1 ratio is a good idea. I've never done it before so it'll be a good experiment to see how I feel with that type of diet.