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View Full Version : no ketone breath or traces of ketones in urine, why am i not in ketosis?



the_hall
05-22-2002, 09:37 PM
I stopped carbing up a little over 65 hrs ago. I am sure i haven't had more than 10g of carbs a day, my fat is making up 75% everyday. I am not getting that much water, about 10 cups (16oz cups) a day. Is it possible I am in ketosis if i haven't showed any symptoms of it? I dont even show traces of ketones, and my breath hasnt smelled at any point for the 3 weeks i have been on this diet. I only showed traces of ketones the first week, but now there are no traces eventhough im not getting much water to dillute my urine. Im doing the carb ups exactly how lyle says.

Could saw palmetto, l-lysine, or xenadrine cause me not to be in ketosis? I didn't want to do cardio because it burnes mucle, but will i maintan more muscle in the long run if i just do the cardio and get into ketosis which is a muscle sparing state? All my lifts have gone up since I have been on the ckd, they are progressing better than at any time in my life. I dont see why im not showing any signs of ketosis.

Its frustrating.

Tiare
05-23-2002, 12:00 AM
Are your calories high enough? Ketones are a fuel source for your muscles and it might be possible that your muscles are burning up all the ketones? Not sure if that's realistic or not though.

And 1 session of cardio won't burn a significant amount of muscle IMO.

the_hall
05-23-2002, 06:15 AM
5% below my bmr on monday, 10% below all other days except carb up.

raniali
05-23-2002, 10:15 AM
SKD ?

And why anti-CKD? I am having good results and (like the_hall) my lifts are going up too. Hmmm?

Paul Stagg
05-23-2002, 01:57 PM
I prefer a TKD to a CKD because it works with any lifting routine, and you don't need to do the depletion workout.

I'm also an idiot, and would go overboard carbing up.

If you are under 20g carbs (are you SURE?) and you are 25% protein, 75% fat, you should be in ketosis within 48 hours or so. Don't worry.

the_hall
05-23-2002, 02:53 PM
Im going to stay with the ckd for a little while. From most of the stuff i have read it should work well for losing fat and retaining mass. I was actually at the library today looking for both lyle and dans books, but they didnt have them. I might try a tkd or skd in the future when i want to cut up again.

Paul, unless the labels are wrong i shouldn't be getting anywhere close to 20g of carbs. The only carbs i get are 4 a day from fiber and maybe a maximum of 7 more from my designer and i believe my baloni has a carb per slice. That is 11 per day max. Should i shorten my carb ups maybe? i have been going for 48hrs, if i shorten this should i eat the same amount just shorten the period over which i consume them?

Im going to try and get lyle or dans book soon. Ive been reading his journals and many of lyles articles, so my ratios and stuff should be perfect. Only thing i did wrong on the carb up was i didn't spread my fat out over as many meals as i should, i kinda ate 34g at the last minute because i had to work all day and forgot to pack a good fat source.

Hallow, on a ckd i have been using a different workout on monday and tuesday. Basically regular training in the 6-8 rep range, i think i got the exact routine from lyles journals. It sounds like you are suggesting monday and tuesday should be depletion workouts? From what i have gathered, lyle says that monday and tuesday should be heavy training days, that is what he did i believe. THe only thing i am doing differently is doing my push day monday, and pull and legs tuesday for no other reason than I would rather retain more mass in my upper body than lower. Im just making sure the parts that are most important to me are done monday. Should i be doing legs monday though, the squats might help me get into ketosis faster.

raniali
05-24-2002, 02:11 PM
I actually like the CKD ... except for the first carb up day. BAM! By midday I want to fall over from lethargy (which several people have attributed to a seratonin surge). I sleep less (perhaps cuz less seratonin) and I don't have terrible cravings. AND - like I said before - my strength has gone up on several lifts although I don't have the energy reserves to do the higher rep ranges with it. All in all - I can't complain. But I think I might have my cholesterol tested in the future to determine if a CKD is creating any problems.

Paul Stagg
05-24-2002, 02:51 PM
Hall - it is very possible you are in ketosis and just don't know it.

You might want to shorten the carbup.

Prelude
05-24-2002, 03:29 PM
I do my depletion Sat. morning and start having sugary carbs afterwards. But later at night and Sunday til noon, I have mostly slow burning carbs like wheat bread and brown rice. Then Mon. and Tues., I do my two day split to used up all the stored glucose. Then I try to squeeze in about 2 cardio sessions within the week. My question is, I'm seeing results but slowly, is it my body or my routine? Any input is appreciated. Thanks!!!

Maki Riddington
05-24-2002, 10:44 PM
Why hot chnage your ratios to 85% fat and 15% pro?
This will help with the transition.

the_hall
05-25-2002, 08:44 PM
Originally posted by Maki Riddington
Why hot chnage your ratios to 85% fat and 15% pro?
This will help with the transition.

On the first day I have been doing 80% fat (monday) but I dont want to get protien too low. However if the higher f/p ratio helps me get into ketosis faster, it will probably spare more muscle wont it?

Paul, if i make the carb up 36 hrs, then should i eat the same number of calories and carbs as i would on a 48 hr carb up? Should I eat all the carbs and calories from day 2 over a span of 12 hrs, instead of 24, or should i cut all the numbers in half too?

Also, what do you all think about doing cardio on wed, would it be worth it, or would it lead to too much muscle loss.

the_hall
05-27-2002, 10:18 AM
another thing to run by you guys, in his faq lyle says to do 10 min of cardio before and after the workout to hasten fat loss (and get into ketosis i assume). i dont see how cardio right after my workout will do me any good, since i am already in a catabolic state. wont this just lead to muscle breakdown? im thinking about doing the pre-workout 10 minute cardio, then just train and get my shake (26g designer, with 45g fat from whipping cream). THen i might just do 10-20 minutes of light cardio monday evening, i just dont see how cardio right after training without a shake can be any good if i want to retain muscle.

raniali
05-28-2002, 10:47 AM
Originally posted by Maki Riddington
Why hot chnage your ratios to 85% fat and 15% pro?
This will help with the transition.


How would changing your f/p ratios induce ketosis faster? My understanding is that ketosis is induced in the absence of carbs...not carbs AND protein. What am I missing here?:confused:

Paul Stagg
05-28-2002, 11:12 AM
Too much protein can keep you out of ketoland.