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Bako Lifter
06-27-2011, 07:26 PM
Thoughts?

Anybody currently using crossfit as a way of lifting?

Just curious. I've recently jumped on the band wagon and am really enjoying it.

StLRPh
06-27-2011, 07:59 PM
It really depends on what you mean by Crossfit. Do you mean following the mainsite WODs? Or adding metabolic conditioning to your programming?

There are several good articles on programming and also some really good affiliates that incorporate different goals (strength, endurance, gymnastics, etc...). Depending on your goals and programming it can be really good, just depends.

Tom Mutaffis
06-27-2011, 08:03 PM
Here is one Crossfit gym that implements a lot of Westside powerlifting principles into their programming:

http://crossfit-strength.com/

These workouts could be good for someone who enjoys the metabolic work but also wants to increase or maintain strength.

chris mason
06-27-2011, 08:31 PM
CrossFit is a great way to train to get into incredible shape. I'm curious why you created this thread in this forum?

vdizenzo
06-27-2011, 09:14 PM
Here is one Crossfit gym that implements a lot of Westside powerlifting principles into their programming:

http://crossfit-strength.com/

These workouts could be good for someone who enjoys the metabolic work but also wants to increase or maintain strength.

Great site! Thx for sharing.

Bako Lifter
06-27-2011, 09:18 PM
Because crossfit is a metabolic conditioning program that incorporates strength, olympic, and competitive training. I figured here or general chat.

I don't think following the mainsite WOD is a good way to train. However I do check the site daily just to see what they're doing, and if the workout seems cool I'll throw it in at some point during the week. I mainly just like their methods and overall mindset.

I'm currently doing a strength/crossfit type regimen. That's a great post tom. I think that type of training can create some crazy athletes.

Dan Fanelli
06-27-2011, 09:28 PM
Some of the principles behind it are great. The application, not so great. It more of a success at marketing rather than training.

Probably my biggest pet peeves of the 'religion' are kipping pullups, and olympic lifting with full ROM for EVERYONE.

Bako Lifter
06-27-2011, 09:36 PM
Whats wrong with full ROM oly lifting?

SEOINAGE
06-27-2011, 10:11 PM
I don't like their excessive use of oly lifting for cardio, when it is an explosive lift and needs to really be trained the proper way. Also I don't think they have as big a focus on strength as they should, but overall you can get in good shape, just be careful. And you really could do better adapting similar principles into your training, and keep in mind, they didn't come up with most of the stuff that they based their training on.

chris mason
06-27-2011, 10:54 PM
Bako, I figured. I'll leave it here, but you would probably get more action in general chat. This forum is really pretty much for strength specific training which CrossFit is not. Oh, and I know a LOT about CrossFit as I write for their journal, work at Louie's CrossFit certs for strength training, and sponsor the Games etc.

Bako Lifter
06-27-2011, 11:00 PM
I thought that was you in the journal. I read a few of your articles but wasnt sure if it was the same mason.

Dan Fanelli
06-27-2011, 11:44 PM
Whats wrong with full ROM oly lifting?

Nothing. But when they have people doing them that shouldn't and are doing high rep cardio with them it's just plain wrong. I see plenty of crossfitters that can't deadlift with proper form dropping down into ATG squats with more weight than they can handle and completely rounded backs.

As for the Kipling pullups, they are just stupid and dangerous. I'm waiting for the day when I see one of them bust their teeth out on the bar.

Mark!
06-28-2011, 02:47 AM
I don't have anything against cross fit type workouts, they certainly kick my ass, but I think it's a lot, A LOT of marketing hype, but...they're good at marketing and getting people in, and people who stick with it certainly do make good progress. I'm like Dan, it seems like when you get away from the traditional strict teachings of crossfit, all you have is a group of people throwing, literally, weight around and just seem to be injury prone, it's about the instructors in that sense though. I guess it's a thin line sort of...I like some of their workouts on conditioning days, but will hold strong to my strength related workouts.

jharris520
06-28-2011, 03:45 PM
Thoughts?

Anybody currently using crossfit as a way of lifting?

Just curious. I've recently jumped on the band wagon and am really enjoying it.

Crossfit is a good way to lift for a lot of people. But, one thing I've often thought about: what's your goal? If your goal is to look and feel great, awesome. Are you trying to increase your Olympic Lifts - well you better think again about the work load and reps that are in done in Crossfit. Again, what's your goal? Then it's easier to answer your question more directly. harrissport.com

thecityalive
07-04-2011, 12:20 AM
Crossfit is taking over my damn Powerhouse. I'm pissed. See my post here

http://www.wannabebig.com/forums/showthread.php?143950-Rant-about-my-gym

I think it's this years P90X if you ask me.

Bako Lifter
07-04-2011, 12:26 AM
I could see them making everybody leave the crossfit section during a paid session, but that's lame if you can't use the equipment in the mean time. Like at my old gym, nobody could play basketball on indoor court during spin classes, but as soon as they were done the court was open again.

thecityalive
07-05-2011, 06:09 PM
Photos up on my rant page.

ScottYard
07-05-2011, 08:21 PM
Some of the principles behind it are great. The application, not so great. It more of a success at marketing rather than training.

Probably my biggest pet peeves of the 'religion' are kipping pullups, and olympic lifting with full ROM for EVERYONE.

Exactly lol

BloodandThunder
07-06-2011, 10:40 AM
I once trained at a Oly-lifting academy that had a big strongman and Crossfit contingent. I didn't know much about Crossfit and while I was squatting, someone asked me "If I wanted to do Fran".

It was only 10 minutes later after searching for this hopefully attractive Fran, that I realized what he was talking about.

Quite disappointed that day lol.

Alex.V
07-06-2011, 11:59 AM
Nothing. But when they have people doing them that shouldn't and are doing high rep cardio with them it's just plain wrong. I see plenty of crossfitters that can't deadlift with proper form dropping down into ATG squats with more weight than they can handle and completely rounded backs.

As for the Kipling pullups, they are just stupid and dangerous. I'm waiting for the day when I see one of them bust their teeth out on the bar.

True this. All of this. I remember doing crossfit workouts back in the day with some buds out in san diego, all military guys (most were SEALs). That was an ass kicking. Now... man, this shit's overprescribed for everything.

Maybe I'm too much a fan of the SAID principle, but... if you want to get stronger, lift heavy. You want to get faster, run. You want to be better at a specific sport movement, practice that movement. Use crossfit to, well, get better at crossfit.

Sure, it's a decent method of training everything at once, but there are better ways to do it. Now bear in mind, I'm talking about crossfit specifically, not just GPP. Once any training style becomes a religion, it's lost me.

4g64fiero
07-06-2011, 03:30 PM
Whats wrong with full ROM oly lifting?

They seem to confuse oly lifting as superior other mentalities. Thats the problem.

ATG squats does not always equal an oly squat. A powerlifting style squat done ATG will have FAR more ROM than and olympic squat not to mention much less of an elastic bounce from the hole. Low box squats dominate them both. Those are tools that are unforgivable to leave out of a program.

There have been plenty of arguments against using power cleans in training so consistantly. In my own personal endeavors, I have found crossfit to severely inhibit recovery with the deadlift.

Kipping pullups are also silly when those are the only type you do.

That being said, I love doing crossfit workouts for short periods of time(6 weeks) then switching to steady state cardio for a while. The conditioning is great. I just dont think its as sustainable as the initial impression I recieve from reading their forums. I would never do it exclusively.

thecityalive
07-06-2011, 04:16 PM
ATG = Ass to grass?

KoSh
07-06-2011, 06:24 PM
ATG does = ass to grass.

Question for Tom or whoever...

I went to that site. Really cool site. I could still train the way I have been and add in some "metcons" 2-3 times a week... How bad do you think metcons would screw with recovery using a 4x a week Juggernaut Template?

I'm guessing the easiest way is to throw one into my training and find out

thecityalive
07-08-2011, 10:07 PM
if you want to get stronger, lift heavy. You want to get faster, run. You want to be better at a specific sport movement, practice that movement. Use crossfit to, well, get better at crossfit.


I am a graphic designer, and <seriously> if I produced that as a tee shirt...would anyone buy that?

That has got to be the most brilliant thing I have ever seen.

Dan Fanelli
07-09-2011, 12:06 AM
True this. All of this. I remember doing crossfit workouts back in the day with some buds out in san diego, all military guys (most were SEALs). That was an ass kicking. Now... man, this shit's overprescribed for everything.

Maybe I'm too much a fan of the SAID principle, but... if you want to get stronger, lift heavy. You want to get faster, run. You want to be better at a specific sport movement, practice that movement. Use crossfit to, well, get better at crossfit.

Sure, it's a decent method of training everything at once, but there are better ways to do it. Now bear in mind, I'm talking about crossfit specifically, not just GPP. Once any training style becomes a religion, it's lost me.

Agree and disagree. Your spot on with the SAID principle, BUT that doesn't mean you cant train for A FEW fitness components at a time, or even many concurrently.

I prefer the EDT system, because its easier to tie back to the SAID principle, and can be easily modified for just about any goals.

Probably my biggest beef with CF (besides claiming that training as a generalist makes you 'elite') is their methods of exercise selection. Exercise selection is arguably the most important factor of training, and they completely miss the boat here. Im tired of seeing everyone in the gym work toward kipping pullups for weeks/months, whe they could just progress toward real pullups. And then everyone is trying to do full ROM squats and olympic lifting, when they dont have the structure, experience, or coaching to do so.

Its just a recipe for disaster.

And then theres the cult / religion aspect to it of which I agree 100% with you.

But I think you could take some of CF's principles and methods and apply those in a SMART manner to have some damn good programming.

Bako Lifter
07-09-2011, 01:11 AM
ATG does = ass to grass.

Question for Tom or whoever...

I went to that site. Really cool site. I could still train the way I have been and add in some "metcons" 2-3 times a week... How bad do you think metcons would screw with recovery using a 4x a week Juggernaut Template?

I'm guessing the easiest way is to throw one into my training and find out

I've been doing this. I have 2 max effort days, a repetiton day, and a dynamic day. Sort of westsideish layout. But ive thrown in one crossfit day. I also do a metcon on my dynamic and rep day at the end of the workout. I just take a few movements I want to work on and create my own metcon. For example, on my dynamic lower day, I might do 3 rounds of 10 OH squats followed by a 200 meter sprint. Just whatever I can think of. It keeps things interesting, increases my gpp, and still fits into the workout I'm doing that day. I think it's working great.

Crossfit alone might not be so great, bit if you find a way to incorporate some of their stuff into your own programing, I think it has huge benefits.

Sensei
07-09-2011, 01:45 AM
I've been doing this. I have 2 max effort days, a repetiton day, and a dynamic day. Sort of westsideish layout. But ive thrown in one crossfit day. I also do a metcon on my dynamic and rep day at the end of the workout. I just take a few movements I want to work on and create my own metcon. For example, on my dynamic lower day, I might do 3 rounds of 10 OH squats followed by a 200 meter sprint. Just whatever I can think of. It keeps things interesting, increases my gpp, and still fits into the workout I'm doing that day. I think it's working great.

Crossfit alone might not be so great, bit if you find a way to incorporate some of their stuff into your own programing, I think it has huge benefits.With all due respect, CF did not invent circuit training or met-cons. People who add weights for conditioning, cardio, or "GPP" into their training programming are not necessarily doing anything Crossfit or even Crossfit-related.

Bako Lifter
07-09-2011, 02:54 AM
Good point.

Patz
07-17-2011, 09:43 AM
I have no intention of arguing on the Internet, so this is me telling some of you what we do at my crossfit gym. Just based on a lot of the comments, I can tell a lot of you really don't know what a typical crossfit day consists of. There is much more to it than the WOD and there are reasons why things are done a specific way. As Alex said, most of us want to get better at Crossfit. I certainly do. The people that surround me there are the fittest and strongest I know. Strong meaning 500+ dead lifters, 400+ squatters, and 300+ benchers. Many of them can also run long distance or compete in triathlons.


We do plenty of dead hang pull ups. On the flipside, crossfit preaches functional strength. Kipping is a technique used for power and explosiveness. It's not a deadhang pullup and was never intended to be. Aside from being able to move the weight a bit easier, dead hang strength has very little carry-over to kipping technique and stamina.

If you were stranded hanging from a cliff or tree branch would you say "I need to pull myself up to save my life, but I'd better do it DEAD HANG!". If you're knocked to the ground in a fight are you gonna put your hands behind your head before sitting back up?

We have 1-2 heavy lifting (not incorporated into met con) days every week. Heavy lifting is also incorporated into NFT (not for time) work done after the WOD.

We're taught to go below parallel on everything but ATG has never been required.

Proper form is coached. If you see a crossfitter using bad form that's their decision. Dont blame crossfit. Scaling weight in the WODs to something you can handle with good form is preached and never looked down upon. I've had my bar weight lowered without my request during a timed workout. Maybe I just have better coaches than most.

thecityalive
07-17-2011, 10:45 AM
I'd like to see someone kip up a wall.
I would then like to collect the blood from said wall in a vial and look at it for a few days.

4g64fiero
07-17-2011, 07:41 PM
I have no intention of arguing on the Internet, so this is me telling some of you what we do at my crossfit gym. Just based on a lot of the comments, I can tell a lot of you really don't know what a typical crossfit day consists of. There is much more to it than the WOD and there are reasons why things are done a specific way. As Alex said, most of us want to get better at Crossfit. I certainly do. The people that surround me there are the fittest and strongest I know. Strong meaning 500+ dead lifters, 400+ squatters, and 300+ benchers. Many of them can also run long distance or compete in triathlons.


We do plenty of dead hang pull ups. On the flipside, crossfit preaches functional strength. Kipping is a technique used for power and explosiveness. It's not a deadhang pullup and was never intended to be. Aside from being able to move the weight a bit easier, dead hang strength has very little carry-over to kipping technique and stamina.

If you were stranded hanging from a cliff or tree branch would you say "I need to pull myself up to save my life, but I'd better do it DEAD HANG!". If you're knocked to the ground in a fight are you gonna put your hands behind your head before sitting back up?

We have 1-2 heavy lifting (not incorporated into met con) days every week. Heavy lifting is also incorporated into NFT (not for time) work done after the WOD.

We're taught to go below parallel on everything but ATG has never been required.

Proper form is coached. If you see a crossfitter using bad form that's their decision. Dont blame crossfit. Scaling weight in the WODs to something you can handle with good form is preached and never looked down upon. I've had my bar weight lowered without my request during a timed workout. Maybe I just have better coaches than most.


What I get from this is that there are alot of different interpretations of crossfit. That happens when the methods are never explained. Not trying to be hostile, but changing a program nearly completely then giving the original full credit is silly. As others have said, crossfit was not the first to do what they're doing. They have done a great job of bring more focus onto it and I actually appreciate that.

I honestly have no idea what to think about crossfit still. I know metcons work. I know the WOD circuits work. I know they have to be changed for them to be successful in my workout. I have to change nearly everything about the program to my individual needs. There comes a point, where the spirit of the original idea is all thats left- to improve conditioning. At what point is the skeleton no longer human? I hope thats the lamest metaphor you guys have to read today.

StLRPh
07-18-2011, 07:37 AM
I think of Crossfit as a brand. It's like saying Nike sucks or Ford sucks. Some do and some don't. Find the specific version that fits your goals and go for it.

Travis Bell
07-18-2011, 11:07 AM
I have no intention of arguing on the Internet, so this is me telling some of you what we do at my crossfit gym. Just based on a lot of the comments, I can tell a lot of you really don't know what a typical crossfit day consists of. There is much more to it than the WOD and there are reasons why things are done a specific way. As Alex said, most of us want to get better at Crossfit. I certainly do. The people that surround me there are the fittest and strongest I know. Strong meaning 500+ dead lifters, 400+ squatters, and 300+ benchers. Many of them can also run long distance or compete in triathlons.

I'm going to throw my 2 cents in here in hopes of this discussion coming to a conclusion. This thing is on its second page and it's getting a tad silly

The above quote about you wanting to get better at CF is great. That's a perfect reason to do CF (free country right?) and at the same time you are able to increase some task specific strengths. Nothing wrong with that



We do plenty of dead hang pull ups. On the flipside, crossfit preaches functional strength. Kipping is a technique used for power and explosiveness. It's not a deadhang pullup and was never intended to be. Aside from being able to move the weight a bit easier, dead hang strength has very little carry-over to kipping technique and stamina.

If you were stranded hanging from a cliff or tree branch would you say "I need to pull myself up to save my life, but I'd better do it DEAD HANG!". If you're knocked to the ground in a fight are you gonna put your hands behind your head before sitting back up?

Again, pull ups are great, kipping is great for CF, etc. But the scenario outlined is pretty unlikely and not necessairly a great reason for someone to start throwing in kipping pull ups. It's not the most productive way for a person to increase upper body explosiveness out of all the other ways a person can train. Just putting it into perspective.


We have 1-2 heavy lifting (not incorporated into met con) days every week. Heavy lifting is also incorporated into NFT (not for time) work done after the WOD.

We're taught to go below parallel on everything but ATG has never been required.

Proper form is coached. If you see a crossfitter using bad form that's their decision. Dont blame crossfit. Scaling weight in the WODs to something you can handle with good form is preached and never looked down upon. I've had my bar weight lowered without my request during a timed workout. Maybe I just have better coaches than most.

Long and the short of it is no, CF isn't the absolute best way for a person to be a better POWERLIFTER.

CF is a great way to get better at CF. C'mon guys. Great for what's its for. Just like powerlifting isn't super for someone training for a CF competition.

Arguments like this arise when powerlifters say they are better athletes than CFers and visa versa. Let it go. Each is good at what they train for.

Although there will be people mis apply each and end up sucking at either one.

Patz
07-18-2011, 07:38 PM
What I get from this is that there are alot of different interpretations of crossfit. That happens when the methods are never explained. Not trying to be hostile, but changing a program nearly completely then giving the original full credit is silly. As others have said, crossfit was not the first to do what they're doing. They have done a great job of bring more focus onto it and I actually appreciate that.

I honestly have no idea what to think about crossfit still. I know metcons work. I know the WOD circuits work. I know they have to be changed for them to be successful in my workout. I have to change nearly everything about the program to my individual needs. There comes a point, where the spirit of the original idea is all thats left- to improve conditioning. At what point is the skeleton no longer human? I hope thats the lamest metaphor you guys have to read today.

Lol..It's not the worst metapho ir've ever heard. :) I've never heard any CF'er claim that the founder invented this stuff and certainly not the CF founder. Crossfit no more invented GPP/HIIT than westside invented the bench press or MMA invented Muy Thai.

But, it wouldn't surprise me if one of the crossfit extremist people tried to make that claim. There are whack jobs in every sport I suppose..lol

Sensei
07-21-2011, 11:58 PM
I know I shouldn't but I can't resist... Before I do, I hope everyone knows that I love a lot of things CF. I'm just not a big fan of Kool-Aid and before anyone flames me, I dislike ALL flavors of Kool-Aid, whether it's kettlebell, Westside, CrossFit, or 5x5.

I have no intention of arguing on the Internet, so this is me telling some of you what we do at my crossfit gym. Just based on a lot of the comments, I can tell a lot of you really don't know what a typical crossfit day consists of. There is much more to it than the WOD and there are reasons why things are done a specific way. As Alex said, most of us want to get better at Crossfit. I certainly do. The people that surround me there are the fittest and strongest I know. Strong meaning 500+ dead lifters, 400+ squatters, and 300+ benchers. Many of them can also run long distance or compete in triathlons.
Okay, I'll bite. Exactly how many at your box DL 5 AND SQ 4 AND BP 3, AND compete in triathlons? If you have more than zero, your box would be exceptional and you know that.

Proper form is coached. If you see a crossfitter using bad form that's their decision. Dont blame crossfit. Scaling weight in the WODs to something you can handle with good form is preached and never looked down upon. I've had my bar weight lowered without my request during a timed workout. Maybe I just have better coaches than most.Proper form is coached perhaps, but does your CF coach frequently stop people in the middle of WODs because of compromised technique? If so, I would say that your box is in the minority and again, you are probably aware of that. You're right that it's not CF's fault exactly, but when an emphasis is placed on competition and powering through to the end come hell or high water, then, IMHO, it's a pretty safe to say that technique could very well get thrown out the window when you have a bunch of, at best, intermediate lifters with mediocre technique even on their best days.

mikesbench
07-25-2011, 07:19 AM
Like everything there are pros an cons. I'll also say that I don't know "everything" abou crossfit.

Some good points that I see -
It's made lifting weights more appealing to the general public.... many crossfitters seem to have come to it to either add a dimension to their training (i.e. triathlete working on strength), or after getting sick of traditional "fitness" (by which I mean check into your local club and jog on teadmill or ride an elliptical for a prescribed time, then call it a day). I feel everyone can benefit from strenthtraining, so this is good.

It seems to be reaching a wide audience, so it must be exposing a lot of people to a wider array of training styles which will give people more options to decide what they like to do. (Some may do CF for the sake of CF, some may want to gain fitness, some may really enjoy the OL fragment of it and go on to learn more about that).

Some cons -
It irritates me the same way anything excessively popular / successful does... Like the Yankees, the Patriots, Lady Gaga, etc. These things are great when you're on the inside (from NY, from NE, a Gaga fan), but they are obnoxious to those on the outside largely because of their success. I guess this somewhat stems from jealousy... I mean I'd love powerlifting to have the popularity and financial backing CF seems to have developed.

It's cool if you want to do everything and be fairly good at each thng, but many seem to think this makes them better than those that choose one thing to excel at. We can all have different goals and appreciate the effort the other puts into acheiving their's.


All in all if people like to do CF, great for them; I have no desire to, but I keep my eyes open to see if I might learn something useful that I can apply to my own situation; much the same way they seem to use concepts from other disciplines.

Alex.V
07-25-2011, 07:56 AM
Okay, I'll bite. Exactly how many at your box DL 5 AND SQ 4 AND BP 3, AND compete in triathlons? If you have more than zero, your box would be exceptional and you know that.

....

:)