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Eric Cartman
06-30-2011, 03:51 PM
I've done the research on a successful hypertrophy bulk, and come up with the following theory:

1. If you eat the correct number of surplus calories, you add 250-500 calories per day above maintenance.

2. The optimal ratio of muscle gain to fat is 2.5 to 1, if you eat efficiently and clean.

3. If you are eating 3500 surplus calories per week, you will gain 1 lb per week.

4. In 2 months you will have gained 8 lbs.

5. Of those 8 lbs, about 6 will be muscle and about 2 will be fat.

6. You can cut for 1 week and lose 2 lbs of fat while maintaining muscle.

Therefore, the ratio of cutting to bulking cycles would be 2 months bulking, 1 week cutting.

Are my calculations correct?

Dan Fanelli
06-30-2011, 06:02 PM
Absolutely none of that is correct. The human body does not act like a machine in a science lab. It was an admirable attempt though.

4g64fiero
06-30-2011, 06:47 PM
Absolutely none of that is correct. The human body does not act like a machine in a science lab. It was an admirable attempt though.

Yep. OP, you are waaaay overthinking this.

Measure your BF% now, add 500 calories a day and lift for 6 months. Measure new BF%. Cut to desireable %.

Rinse. Repeat.

Dan Fanelli
06-30-2011, 07:03 PM
Yep. OP, you are waaaay overthinking this.

Measure your BF% now, add 500 calories a day and lift for 6 months. Measure new BF%. Cut to desireable %.

Rinse. Repeat.

Ya this is probably the smartest way to go, but you could take it a bit deeper if you wanted, and depending on your experience.

I'd go like this if possible, eat enough to fuel your workouts and gradually gain weight. When you reach the point where you notice you are putting fat on at a more than acceptable rate, or your workouts get 'stale', cut back a bit and maintain. From there decide whether you are able to continue building or if its time to "cut".

The 'cutting' process works just about the same way, but can a bit more extreme since you can lose fat faster. Whatever method you choose to "cut" keep going until the point where you are losing muscle or strength at a more than acceptable rate. Go into maintanence, re-assess and repeat the process.

As for cycling the two. You can either improvise it, or follow a schedule. There is no exact formula, but I probably wouldn't 'cut' for less than 3 weeks at a time, and I wouldn't bulk for less than 6-8 weeks at a time. BUT even this recommendation is not a definate. If your bulk/cut cycles are not very drastic and you are basically just trying to recomp, then something like 2 weeks cut, 4 weeks bulk can work. I think this is similar to how Layne Norton recommns things. And sometimes a 1-2 week "cut" can be beneficial just to get things in order before going into a longer slow 'bulk'.

As much as we'd like to believe this stuff is all science, its more a mix of science and art.

Eric Cartman
06-30-2011, 08:19 PM
Yep. OP, you are waaaay overthinking this.

Measure your BF% now, add 500 calories a day and lift for 6 months. Measure new BF%. Cut to desireable %.

Rinse. Repeat.

Well, I thought that my math was pretty good, based on what I've read.. if you eat 3500 extra calories, you should gain 1 lb a week... but okay., maybe it varies...

Would you bulk for 6 months at 15% body fat?

Travis Bell
06-30-2011, 08:49 PM
Of course it varies. There is no set amount of calories for everyone to take in order to gain or lose weight. You have to take into account body type, metabolism, daily caloric expenditure, current BF etc.

You look at what you're eating right now and maintaining at and increase that number by a bit.

Bulking for 4-6mths would be just fine.

Eric Cartman
06-30-2011, 10:01 PM
Of course it varies. There is no set amount of calories for everyone to take in order to gain or lose weight. You have to take into account body type, metabolism, daily caloric expenditure, current BF etc.

You look at what you're eating right now and maintaining at and increase that number by a bit.

Bulking for 4-6mths would be just fine.

6 month bulk would give at least 10 lbs of fat if not more, wouldn't it?

Does anyone want to look that fat? It would take a long cut cycle to get rid of it too, wouldn't it?

Isn't that a bit long for a cycle, given that I'm already 15% BF right now?

Off Road
06-30-2011, 10:37 PM
You are WAY overthinking this stuff...just lift some weights and eat some food and keep it up for YEARS!

Eric Cartman
06-30-2011, 10:56 PM
You are WAY overthinking this stuff...just lift some weights and eat some food and keep it up for YEARS!

Yes, I will....

But if I'm getting fat after a few months bulk, I'm gonna have to stop the bulk...

Doesn't that make sense?

Dan Fanelli
06-30-2011, 11:20 PM
Yes, I will....

But if I'm getting fat after a few months bulk, I'm gonna have to stop the bulk...

Doesn't that make sense?

Not necessariliy. Its very possible that you could "recomp" for 4-6 months and not gain any fat at all. It really depends on where you are according to your potential, what you've been doing, and what you are going to do.

And gaining fat is NOT the end of the world. It will come down to how much fat you are willing to gain to put on a significant amount of muscle. If you put on 10lbs of fat in 6 months, that could be considered good if you put on 20lbs of muscle. But if you put on 10lbs of fat, and only 5 lbs of muscle, that would be bad.

You've got too many threads going now, its going to be hard to get straight advice. Go into the thread you started about the "best hypertrophy program" and give us a DETAILED post of what youve been doing and where you are at now.

Important things to list:
Current and previous training
Height/weight/BF%
Current / previous diet
Pics would help
Short and long term goals
Etc.

Do this, and then people will be able to make more substantial recommendations

Eric Cartman
06-30-2011, 11:26 PM
Not necessariliy. Its very possible that you could "recomp" for 4-6 months and not gain any fat at all. It really depends on where you are according to your potential, what you've been doing, and what you are going to do.

And gaining fat is NOT the end of the world. It will come down to how much fat you are willing to gain to put on a significant amount of muscle. If you put on 10lbs of fat in 6 months, that could be considered good if you put on 20lbs of muscle. But if you put on 10lbs of fat, and only 5 lbs of muscle, that would be bad.

You've got too many threads going now, its going to be hard to get straight advice. Go into the thread you started about the "best hypertrophy program" and give us a DETAILED post of what youve been doing and where you are at now.

Important things to list:
Current and previous training
Height/weight/BF%
Current / previous diet
Pics would help
Short and long term goals
Etc.

Do this, and then people will be able to make more substantial recommendations

Ok, I do have 3 threads going...

This thread, and two others "which hypertrophy program is best", and "tried to cut,. hit brick wall"...

Actually, I thought they were all on slightly different topics, but I guess they over-lap..

I will do as you suggest..

4g64fiero
07-01-2011, 01:32 PM
EC, 15% BF seems to be the highest your typical lifter wishes to go if they care about asthetics. Its really up to you, but there is no benefit in going beyond that. I would cut back down to 10% but thats hard to do if you havent got used to counting calories yet. Having a 37" waist doesnt look good on a 200lb guy.

Basically, Behemoth definitely explained this well in your other thread.