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Thuggish
09-23-2011, 11:12 PM
So I hear a lot of people saying that CrossFit Football is solid programming both for strength and conditioning for the power athlete. I also know that the Conjugte Method is the best training to up strength in the world for 99% of people. I have also learned that assistance exercises to bring up lagging and/or important muscle groups are a must to achieve a certain level of strength.

Louis Simmons says in his book that there are three ways to increase strength- the maximal effort method, dynamic effort method, and repetition method. Why can the repetition method of this trio not be covered in a typical CrossFit (or CrossFit Football) WOD?

For example, why not take two ME days with some normal assistance work, then two DE days with a quick MetCon kind of workout afterward that just so happened to cover the bases for the day.(E.g. after speed sets of box squats, your workout consists of box jumps, sit-ups, and power cleans... or whatever). Or on the two ME days you do a MetCon as well and after that some tricep extensions or GHRs or whatever you need.

And if you're feeling good, take one more day to do a bit longer of a workout, like the CFFB programming does.

This way you do your maximal effort work to get really strong, you do your dynamic effort work to keep your speed, and you get your conditioning and some repetition (volume) in the timed workout. Eat a lot, and you'll put on some muscle mass while you're at it.

Am I missing anything here?

chris mason
09-24-2011, 09:05 AM
Too much work on the days you train the way you have outlined it. You will overtrain. People who just do Westside run the ragged edge, now you are going to throw in a bunch of extra work on top of it? What you are proposing is not the way to do it at least for any length of time.

Sensei
09-24-2011, 10:42 AM
Well, you certainly can do it but, unless you are a novice with a lot of extra time and a stress-free life, it's probably not going to be something you'll be able to continue for very long.

Chris' advice is dead on. I know a lot of people think they can take a good thing and make it better by adding this and that, but it doesn't usually work out that way. I like ice cream and pepperoni pizza too, but I don't throw a scoop on my pie and chow down...

Thuggish
09-24-2011, 11:34 AM
What I don't understand is how it's too much work IF, for example, on a DE day, the only difference is that instead of doing a bunch of GHRs or triceps extensions I do four rounds of kettlebell swings, sit-ups, and maybe box jumps or 100m sprints.

Example:

Box Squats w/ chains or bands 8x2

Four rounds for time:
15 kettlebell swings
15 sit-ups
10 box jumps

or...

Bench w/ chains or bands 9x3

AMRAP in ten minutes:
5 Ring Dips
10 Push Press
15 Pull-ups

The above workouts wouldn't be terribly hard on my muscles, but it would give them a little work, and get my lungs pumping too. You could put prowler pushes in there or burpees or whatever, but you get the point.

And the ME days go unchanged, meaning you hit your 1RM doing whatever, then hit your GHRs and your banded good mornings and all that.

Am I still flirting with over training with this kind of schedule? I'm simply looking for a way to keep my strength gains coming while maintaining at least some level of fitness outside of strength.

Thuggish
09-24-2011, 11:35 AM
Thanks for the inputs by the way

chris mason
09-24-2011, 12:04 PM
Did I mention I am part of the Westside cert team for CrossFit?

For your goal I would recommend a strict Westside template with 2 WODs on 2 of your 3 off days. The WODs can then serve as a form of active recovery and you can focus on the training goal for a given day.

Thuggish
09-24-2011, 12:43 PM
No, but I did know that. What you said is interesting, it's actually more than what I'd thought I could do before over training. Would you recommend that the WODs be more metabolic based, i.e. a lot of sprinting, burpees, double-unders, that sort of thing, with limited volume in movements like kettlebell swings, thrusters, and such taxing movements? I figure that would serve more to active recovery as opposed to beating me down further.

chris mason
09-24-2011, 04:17 PM
The type of WOD doesn't really matter unless we are talking about King Kong. Most of the WODs involve a lot of reps and thus are quite different than standard strength training.

joey54
09-24-2011, 06:33 PM
We had quite the discussion on crossfit for football a few years ago on here. Maybe you would be interested in it, so I suggest doing a search for that one as well.

If I could ask, how old are you and what is your football playing experience?

Thuggish
09-24-2011, 11:39 PM
27, and none. I mention it because of the goal to make power athletes, which is another way to say athletes biased a little toward strength.

Thuggish
09-25-2011, 08:59 AM
Here's a good example of what I'm after. I just found this by accident this morning.

http://games.crossfit.com/node/58666

Look at his lifts. That happens to be about the numbers I've wanted. Once that base level of strength is built, I'll be one huge step closer to a very high level of fitness. (And no, I don't plan on actually competing in the games, just saying.)

chris mason
09-25-2011, 11:36 AM
Thuggish, I've told you exactly how to achieve your goal. It 100% works. It has been proven to work. Why are you not satisfied with the answer? Are you worried that a Westside template is too hard to do?

Thuggish
09-25-2011, 02:52 PM
Uh, no, I was engaging with the other guy for the sake of conversation. I plan on following your advice, because I trust it- which is rare coming from me- that's why I joined these boards.

I am actually good with the Westside approach, I have been doing it (it's the only thing that makes me stronger any more), I just wanted inputs as to how I can keep up at least a little conditioning, because with none I feel like a slug.

chris mason
09-25-2011, 03:44 PM
Trust me again on this one, do 2 WODs per week (of your choice) on 2 of your 3 off days. Give yourself one day of total rest.

Thuggish
09-25-2011, 09:40 PM
You don't have to tell me about a day of total rest. I might slack and make it two. But anyway, thanks for the input, I will report back in a little while.

thehulk0316
10-11-2011, 02:45 PM
MEBB = Max Effort Black Box, to me, the best method out there to prioritize your goals, stay in shape and progress in CrossFit. Although I am very sure you can use this method for an array of things.

http://www.cathletics.com/zen/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=61 (WFS)


- hulk

Thuggish
10-23-2011, 08:40 PM
edit- wrong thread