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Andemusprime
10-05-2011, 11:51 PM
The situation is i have been training as a power lifter at a notable gym (rather not say cause i dont want to get picked on in gym). I gained a good deal of strength and weight but put on some fat too. Im no longer happy with the training or my looks so i have switched it up. I thought i could figure it out on my own based on what i had learned but i began to feel like i was treading water in the gym. The lack of results i was seeing turned to a lack of motivation i had before watching my lifts rise in max. So i went to some of the body builders in the gym for advice. One of them, who looks like he knows whats up, wrote me out a routine and a diet he thinks i should follow. The routine is great but its the diet that im worried about. After finding my fat percentage and my daily calorie needs it seems the diet is way off compared to one i developed for my self. So i figured i would see if someone could fill in the gap for me.

Diet he has is about 7 meals a day including 3 shakes. Its 3,804 cals, 90.6 fat, 292.5 carbs, and 391 protein.

Diet i had just made is 6 meals a day with post shake(dark matter) and 1 protein.
Its 2,333 cals. 50.7 fat, 165.2 carbs, 306.1 protein.

I use oodos oil, multivitamin, digestive enzymes, dark matter, concrete, bcaa.

I am 5'11" at 238 with a 38" waist. I dont know if you want arm and chest and ect... stats but my lifts are just shy of 600 on dead lift. 385 raw bench, and i dont squat. I cant think of any other info to give but advice is very welcome.

krazylarry
10-06-2011, 02:44 AM
If you are doing a low carb diet, which most people feel is the best for fat loss than you fat intake is way to low. Google Shelby Starnes and the anabolic diet. But guys not way more than I do.

Oh and if you want to loss diet cardio, in the morning on a empty stomach is best, but any time will do.

greemah
10-06-2011, 04:34 PM
Diet he has is about 7 meals a day including 3 shakes. Its 3,804 cals, 90.6 fat, 292.5 carbs, and 391 protein.

Diet i had just made is 6 meals a day with post shake(dark matter) and 1 protein.
Its 2,333 cals. 50.7 fat, 165.2 carbs, 306.1 protein.

Since you know your daily calorie needs then you are in a better position to sort out your diet than him. If his diet is 3804 calories that is highly unlikely to be good for cutting for you (doubt your maintenance is over 4000 calories).

If you decide to go with your diet, I would suggest you bump up the fats a bit to at least 60g, you can afford to take that from the protein I think. This is my opinion, others may think otherwise

Behemoth
10-06-2011, 05:13 PM
If you are doing a low carb diet, which most people feel is the best for fat loss than you fat intake is way to low. Google Shelby Starnes and the anabolic diet. But guys not way more than I do.

Oh and if you want to loss diet cardio, in the morning on a empty stomach is best, but any time will do.

No they don't. People who don't understand fat loss and don't train feel low carb is best. I'm not against low carb if it suits the person but it's ridiculous for people to choose a low carb diet because they think it's inherently better at removing fat from their body.

Behemoth
10-06-2011, 05:18 PM
The situation is i have been training as a power lifter at a notable gym (rather not say cause i dont want to get picked on in gym). I gained a good deal of strength and weight but put on some fat too. Im no longer happy with the training or my looks so i have switched it up. I thought i could figure it out on my own based on what i had learned but i began to feel like i was treading water in the gym. The lack of results i was seeing turned to a lack of motivation i had before watching my lifts rise in max. So i went to some of the body builders in the gym for advice. One of them, who looks like he knows whats up, wrote me out a routine and a diet he thinks i should follow. The routine is great but its the diet that im worried about. After finding my fat percentage and my daily calorie needs it seems the diet is way off compared to one i developed for my self. So i figured i would see if someone could fill in the gap for me.

Diet he has is about 7 meals a day including 3 shakes. Its 3,804 cals, 90.6 fat, 292.5 carbs, and 391 protein.

Diet i had just made is 6 meals a day with post shake(dark matter) and 1 protein.
Its 2,333 cals. 50.7 fat, 165.2 carbs, 306.1 protein.

I use oodos oil, multivitamin, digestive enzymes, dark matter, concrete, bcaa.

I am 5'11" at 238 with a 38" waist. I dont know if you want arm and chest and ect... stats but my lifts are just shy of 600 on dead lift. 385 raw bench, and i dont squat. I cant think of any other info to give but advice is very welcome.

First off don't take his advice. He's an idiot if he thinks he can immediately ascertain your needs. Don't worry about the how many meals it's spread across either.




First things first, was the following determined by you or by him? And how was it determined?

After finding my fat percentage and my daily calorie needs

krazylarry
10-06-2011, 09:57 PM
No they don't. People who don't understand fat loss and don't train feel low carb is best. I'm not against low carb if it suits the person but it's ridiculous for people to choose a low carb diet because they think it's inherently better at removing fat from their body.

Shelby Starnes goes with the low carb cycling, I have seen him work wonders with people, hence why I recommend him and his style.

Behemoth
10-06-2011, 11:24 PM
Shelby Starnes goes with the low carb cycling, I have seen him work wonders with people, hence why I recommend him and his style.

Carb cycling is not low carb, it's carb cycling.

krazylarry
10-07-2011, 01:31 AM
I'm looking at his Ebook right now. He eats less and less carbs as he diet goes. "4 low days, 2 medium and 1 high" Isn't that low carb? Its almost the same as the anabolic diet, 5 days low, 2 high, and that is called low carb.

Holto
10-07-2011, 09:03 AM
I'm looking at his Ebook right now. He eats less and less carbs as he diet goes. "4 low days, 2 medium and 1 high" Isn't that low carb? Its almost the same as the anabolic diet, 5 days low, 2 high, and that is called low carb.

Generally when people say "low carb" I think "Ketosis". I don't think you reach ketosis if you carb cycle.

Off Road
10-07-2011, 10:54 AM
Generally when people say "low carb" I think "Ketosis". I don't think you reach ketosis if you carb cycle.That's the way I was leaning with the subject but know far too little about it.

Behemoth
10-07-2011, 03:48 PM
I'm looking at his Ebook right now. He eats less and less carbs as he diet goes. "4 low days, 2 medium and 1 high" Isn't that low carb? Its almost the same as the anabolic diet, 5 days low, 2 high, and that is called low carb.

If we disagree it may be on definitions. What I am stating is that a diet that is lower in carbs does not inherently make it more productive or efficient than a diet that is higher in carbs.

krazylarry
10-07-2011, 05:35 PM
True, it because I when I say low carb I mean under 100 g a day, not keto which is under 20-30 g. On a side note the worst beating I ever took was while sparring while trying a keto diet, holy shit did that suck.

Behemoth
10-07-2011, 08:59 PM
True, it because I when I say low carb I mean under 100 g a day, not keto which is under 20-30 g. On a side note the worst beating I ever took was while sparring while trying a keto diet, holy shit did that suck.

So if your definition is to be applied to the original statement I had issue with, which was
If you are doing a low carb diet, which most people feel is the best for fat loss I am still going to vehemently disagree. Under 100g a day is not inherently better for fatloss.

The problem I have with the phrase I've quoted is that it would steer people to believe that a certain carb allotment (read: cookie cutter allotment) means that it's more effective for someone without knowing anything else.

krazylarry
10-08-2011, 02:41 PM
What would you feel was the best then?

Almost everything I have read about fat loss while staying strong, is about low carbs.

Behemoth
10-08-2011, 03:21 PM
What would you feel was the best then?

Almost everything I have read about fat loss while staying strong, is about low carbs.

*bangs head against wall*

I feel the best is the most carbs the individual can get away with losing fat on. And it's going to vary. Maybe it low or keto for some, maybe it's cycling at times but it is in no way, shape, or form, simply "low carb".

Andemusprime
10-13-2011, 06:33 PM
First off don't take his advice. He's an idiot if he thinks he can immediately ascertain your needs. Don't worry about the how many meals it's spread across either.




First things first, was the following determined by you or by him? And how was it determined?

the diet with 2,333 cals was what i came up with by doing some online reading, there is just sooo much info out there. The other one is what he recomended. I went to him mainly cause there is soo much info out there and i dont have experince with any of it. I dont know if i should cut, bulk, slowly do both. I wanna look big and good, not just work on my strength and be another over weight out of shape wanna be powerlifter (no offense to any one.)

Behemoth
10-13-2011, 07:54 PM
the diet with 2,333 cals was what i came up with by doing some online reading, there is just sooo much info out there. The other one is what he recomended. I went to him mainly cause there is soo much info out there and i dont have experince with any of it. I dont know if i should cut, bulk, slowly do both. I wanna look big and good, not just work on my strength and be another over weight out of shape wanna be powerlifter (no offense to any one.)

Your initial post sounds like a slow diet is what you need to do. If your body causes you to not feel great about yourself well what's the point of being big and strong? First thing I would emphasize is do not change your training. You're strong as hell, the same training that builds muscle is strength is also best to preserving muscle and strength while on reduced calories. Lifts aren't going to keep rising like they did while eating an abundance but you'll probably find over time the gratification of gaining more definition and appearing more muscular may rival or top that of hitting PRs.

First thing with your diet is just about figuring out how much you need to eat. It's ludacris to jump into fancy diet if you don't even know where to start the calories. To figure those out know that it's better to start a diet with too many calories than it is too few. And if you've never actively tracked calories before it can take a little trial and error finding the appropriate amount to eat. A couple of really generic formulas are bodyweight * 15 for maintenance and bodyweight * 12 for dieting. But like I said, better to start too high and need to chip off a few more off than to start too low.

If I were you I would try about 14 * your bodyweight and CONSISTENTLY eat that amount every day for two weeks. Weigh yourself every morning before you eat or drink but after bathroom usage and write down the weigh ins. I wouldn't be overly concerned with specific macros or how many meals you eat for time to get things dialed in. Eat your bodyweight in grams of protein each day is the only thing I would emphasize.

There's nothing fancy about losing weight. It truly is just about eating less. Once you get ahold of that then it's time to try out different variations in carbs and fat and mess with meal timing and what not. You can gradually start to see what you feel best on, stay the fullest with, and complements your training and lifestyle best. But right now, trying to set up 20 different stipulations when all you need is 2 or 3 (track calories, consistently eat your trial amount each day, hit your protein) just makes things confusing, frustrating, overly complicated and actually FAR more likely to not be successful IMO.

Andemusprime
10-14-2011, 06:56 PM
Thanks Behemoth. Im not comfortable with my body and want to get the defenition. I wasnt sure about rutine, thanks for clearing that up and thanks for the compliment. Strength training was easy, dieting had me lost. So i work in a bar as well, what is the thought on alcohol? And how about cardio. When strength training i never did cardio or cared what i eat, and i always got 300+ grams of protein a day.


So 14xmy bodyweight in cals, is there a break up of fat and carbs i should be aware of as well as the body weight in protein a day?

Thanks again

Behemoth
10-14-2011, 07:22 PM
Thanks Behemoth. Im not comfortable with my body and want to get the defenition. I wasnt sure about rutine, thanks for clearing that up and thanks for the compliment. Strength training was easy, dieting had me lost. So i work in a bar as well, what is the thought on alcohol? And how about cardio. When strength training i never did cardio or cared what i eat, and i always got 300+ grams of protein a day.


So 14xmy bodyweight in cals, is there a break up of fat and carbs i should be aware of as well as the body weight in protein a day?

Thanks again

This is my favorite article on alcohol (http://www.leangains.com/2010/07/truth-about-alcohol-fat-loss-and-muscle.html).

Cardio is just a means to expend calories. I really wouldn't advise doing much if any until you figure out the amount of calories you need or it will just complicate things. After that you may wish to incorporate it.

I really wouldn't worry about the macro breakdown off the bat. I mean if you want to pick something specific and try it out off the bat that's perfectly fine. A very important thing I've come to realize over the years is that there is no "best way" for everybody. The utmost important part is adherence and consistency. If you (or someone else) sets up your diet in a manner that isn't complementary to you well then it's a shitty diet.

If you're getting 1-1.5g/lb protein, and getting in some quality fats, it's not going make a big difference (or really any off the bat) on how you want to divide the remaining calories. I personally like to advise keeping a significant portion of carbs off the bat. They serve a much bigger role in sparing muscle and training hard on a diet than extra fat or protein beyond meeting those needs. If you can lose fat with carbs in your diet (and everybody can for quite some time) then you're going to be better off from a muscle preserving standpoint than a very low carb diet. But they do have their drawbacks, they're less satiating and can be harder to diet with than eating foods more filling. As well as when you start getting to some leaner levels fatloss can be expedited for some by lowering them or eliminating them at times. I would never advise carb cycling as a must have until someones at least 12% bodyfat or less. And even then it's hit or miss if it's going to be necessary at all.

I hope you're grasping the gist of what I'm saying and that is pretty that it's going to be a process of trial and error as you settle into what works for you. Here's a sticky I made a while back that may also help. http://www.wannabebig.com/forums/showthread.php?141719-How-to-setup-an-initial-diet

Andemusprime
10-14-2011, 07:23 PM
ohh by the way. This week i hit 405 on bench and 600 on deadlift.