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thewicked
12-12-2011, 09:39 PM
I did a max effort rack pull from below the knees at the hardest point in the deadlift transition. With 625 without a belt it was what I would consider max effort... then added a belt and pulled 715 for the same amount of effort and called it done.

is 90lbs unusual to get from a belt? is this a bad sign?

chris mason
12-12-2011, 10:15 PM
It likely means you are putting your back in a highly dangerous position using the belt.

thewicked
12-12-2011, 10:44 PM
i don't feel anything in my back though..i feel just overall straight and hips straining but never does my lower back get sore save pulling off a high deficit. My back position is the same wether it be with or without the belt. I always pull rounded

drew
12-13-2011, 07:40 AM
It could mean anything. Maybe you're correcting a form issue or putting more focus into the 715, knowing the 625 was hard. Maybe you took the 625 for granted and it was harder than it should have been. Without seeing what you actually did on each lift, it's hard to say. Why would you make a 90lb jump if the 625 was that hard? You must have been confident that you could get the 715. Regardless of what or why, I think it probably has more to do with your mental approach than anything else.

chris mason
12-13-2011, 11:43 AM
i don't feel anything in my back though..i feel just overall straight and hips straining but never does my lower back get sore save pulling off a high deficit. My back position is the same wether it be with or without the belt. I always pull rounded

Soreness doesn't mean you aren't compromising tissue. A belt should not make that big of a difference unless you are using it to augment what is already dangerous form.

RhodeHouse
12-13-2011, 12:34 PM
Soreness doesn't mean you aren't compromising tissue. A belt should not make that big of a difference unless you are using it to augment what is already dangerous form.

The belt helps tremendously. It doesn't necessarily mean he's using bad form. If his back doesn't bother him after a big lift, that's a pretty good sign he's doing alright. If he's way out of position, his back would hurt.

To the OP, I wouldn't waste my time thinking about this stuff. Lift. When it's time to put on the belt, put it on and lift.

ScottYard
12-13-2011, 06:55 PM
Dont over thinkin it. training is hard enough. I would work on some core work though.

chris mason
12-13-2011, 06:59 PM
The belt helps tremendously. It doesn't necessarily mean he's using bad form. If his back doesn't bother him after a big lift, that's a pretty good sign he's doing alright. If he's way out of position, his back would hurt.

To the OP, I wouldn't waste my time thinking about this stuff. Lift. When it's time to put on the belt, put it on and lift.

Not necessarily true. He can be fatiguing tissue with little or no pain. That fatigue can be cumulative and will one day result in potentially significant injury.

A belt can make a difference, but unless you are using it in a manner that is potentially dangerous you should not be getting 90 lbs out of it.

JK1
12-13-2011, 07:49 PM
Not necessarily true. He can be fatiguing tissue with little or no pain. That fatigue can be cumulative and will one day result in potentially significant injury.

A belt can make a difference, but unless you are using it in a manner that is potentially dangerous you should not be getting 90 lbs out of it.

Chris, you may be forgetting something really important with belt vs not belted lifting---the psychological status of the lifter. I think 90 lbs is easily believable, depending on the individual lifter. Its not necessarily a strength issue as much as it is their brain needing the belt to lift more.

chris mason
12-13-2011, 09:23 PM
Chris, you may be forgetting something really important with belt vs not belted lifting---the psychological status of the lifter. I think 90 lbs is easily believable, depending on the individual lifter. Its not necessarily a strength issue as much as it is their brain needing the belt to lift more.

I might agree except for the fact he has pulled without a belt for prolonged periods, so I don't think that applies in his case.

Just to be clear, I like him a lot. I am just expressing concern based upon some reading I have been doing as of late regarding back pathology.

JK1
12-14-2011, 12:21 AM
Just to be clear, I like him a lot. I am just expressing concern based upon some reading I have been doing as of late regarding back pathology.

I can understand that fully.

I personally don't follow his training enough to be able to say anything about what he's done in the past.

The whole topic of belt vs no belt is a topic Rob and I seem to end up discussing quiet a bit off and on in the gym,especially if we are pushing for a meet The psychological aspects of a belt, even a loose one, can play a huge roll with some lifters on some lifts.

NickAus
12-14-2011, 01:08 AM
Good discussion!

RhodeHouse
12-15-2011, 06:43 PM
Not necessarily true. He can be fatiguing tissue with little or no pain. That fatigue can be cumulative and will one day result in potentially significant injury.

A belt can make a difference, but unless you are using it in a manner that is potentially dangerous you should not be getting 90 lbs out of it.

I guess I can see your point. I think where I get caught up is that everything we do could potentially hurt us, badly.

I look at my own line of injuries and can point o periods where things came on slowly and I was able to fix the problem. If I'm lifting and it doesn't hurt, that's a good indicator to me that things are just fine. I expect injuries doing this, so if they creep up, I'm not surprised.

I guess my question is, or what I'm getting hung up on is how do I know if I'm lifting wrong? My shoulders feel great. Could I be damaging them? My answer is, of course I'm damaging them. I'm lifting weights that are heavy and sometimes the groove just isn't right. Wear and tear is going to take its toll no matter how good my form is.

With my back problems, I saw herniated discs on an x-ray way before they even hurt. In fact, my doctor wasn't even a bit concerned with them. I can tell you what i believe led to my injury, but I can't be sure. I just have a feeling. But, I felt no pain until I started experimenting with very light Round Back Good Mornings. Again, no pain until I started usng these. To me, no pain is a good sign.

Not arguing, just trying to equate what you said to my own situation.