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power16
01-07-2012, 05:53 AM
Hi there i follow westside training methods my raw bench is about 170kg and shirted about 220kg what sort of weight should i be using on speed day at the moment i use about 70-80kg bar weight and bands doubled up which are roughly 70 kg band tension at the top 35kg a side . what should i be doing any help would be great thanks ?

Niko_El_Piko
01-07-2012, 12:23 PM
If I am reading properly, your 1RM RAW is 170kg, and you are trying to go Dynamic at the top for 70+70=140Kg?
Too heavy. Work in the 40/55% 1 Rep Max (frew weight + bands) range x 8-10 sets x 3 reps, varying your grip inside the power rings (little finger inside the ring).

andy51
01-07-2012, 12:41 PM
Generally you don't add the accommodating resistance to the calculation of you dynamic work weight. What bands are you using...generally minis or monster minis are used. The bands are doubled. A very basic wave is 50-55-60% over three weeks. Some guys are having success with even lighter weights. Seems like you are on the right track.

Hopefully some of the other guys will chime in. I don't train at Westside...so basically this is all from articles etc.

Keep reading. There is tons of info about what goes on at Westside.

power16
01-07-2012, 01:17 PM
i think they are mini monsters doubled up . Thanks for the replies as i wasnt sure if you included the band resistance or not.

RFabsik
01-07-2012, 02:16 PM
Hopefully, Travis will chime in, but I think the current bench parameters at Westside are 55% bar weight of your 1RM raw bench ~9 sets for 3 reps, vary the grips, 1 minute or less between sets and add accomodating resistance to the 55% straight weight.

So at the bottom you'll have just a little more than 55% of force on the bar, at the top, you might be 75% or above at the top--and I think one of Louie's recent articles defines how DE day isn't a light day its a speed day with lower weights but not light weights.

Doubled minis or monsters are probably fine for your strength level and if you use chains you'll probably need 2 sets of 5/8" chain. They haven't been waving the straight weight on the bench. But every 3 weeks change the form of accomodating resistance--modify band tension, modify chain weight, switch accomodation method, mix bands and chain.

In the end if you are moving slow, you need to make something less.

ScottYard
01-07-2012, 02:48 PM
% are guidelines. I know vinny used as low as 135 for sets and was a 600 raw bencher. Move weight fast then focus on increasing it once you have speed with lighter weights

SELK
01-07-2012, 04:27 PM
The day I actually got something out of speed work (in the squat anyway) was the day I stopped worrying about percents and just tried to go fast. I never actually go over about 40-45%1rm bar weight in the squat. Ive found a little less bar weight and more tension works good for my weaknesses, in a few months things could change and I could be better off with more straight weight and less tension.

Niko_El_Piko
01-07-2012, 05:05 PM
Hopefully, Travis will chime in, but I think the current bench parameters at Westside are 55% bar weight of your 1RM raw bench ~9 sets for 3 reps, vary the grips, 1 minute or less between sets and add accomodating resistance to the 55% straight weight.

So at the bottom you'll have just a little more than 55% of force on the bar, at the top, you might be 75% or above at the top--and I think one of Louie's recent articles defines how DE day isn't a light day its a speed day with lower weights but not light weights.

Doubled minis or monsters are probably fine for your strength level and if you use chains you'll probably need 2 sets of 5/8" chain. They haven't been waving the straight weight on the bench. But every 3 weeks change the form of accomodating resistance--modify band tension, modify chain weight, switch accomodation method, mix bands and chain.

In the end if you are moving slow, you need to make something less.

I agree that this is very personal once you get some experience.
The guidelines for Dynamic method (press) at WSB: The training percent with a combination of bar weight and bands looks like this: The bar weight is 33%, the bar and band weight at the bottom is 42% and the bar and band weight at the top is 50% (B of M page 96).

Brian C
01-07-2012, 07:35 PM
Just move the weight fast. If its slow, its too heavy.

jtteg_x
01-07-2012, 08:18 PM
% are guidelines. I know vinny used as low as 135 for sets and was a 600 raw bencher. Move weight fast then focus on increasing it once you have speed with lighter weights


Just move the weight fast. If its slow, its too heavy.


^^
there's no set magic number. start with 40% then gradually work up in weight along with speed. I believe it was Mark Bell from Super Training Gym that said; if you can't complete the 3rd rep by 3 seconds, its not fast enough.

Travis Bell
01-07-2012, 08:38 PM
Vincent will correct me if I'm wrong, but in that same cycle, although he started with as low as 135, he eventually ended up using around 365 if I'm not mistaken, in that particular training cycle.

We rotate the percentages a little based upon where we are at in the training cycle as well as in our pre meet training.

However what's been said thus far is correct, the percentages are just a guideline to a point. By that I mean if you're using much less than 40% it's not going to be of much benefit to you and if you're using a whole lot more than 65% - even if you can move it fast the chance for injury greatly increases.

But in between there is up to you. I've worked with a lot of kids who had very low bench numbers to start (think around 150) and we still did speed work and it really helped their bench along, they just had to get faster as they got stronger.

Speed work is tricky though. If you do it sloppy it's not going to benefit you any.

Niko_El_Piko
01-07-2012, 09:30 PM
^^
there's no set magic number. start with 40% then gradually work up in weight along with speed. I believe it was Mark Bell from Super Training Gym that said; if you can't complete the 3rd rep by 3 seconds, its not fast enough.

I Agree with this and Travis comments.

vdizenzo
01-07-2012, 11:31 PM
For the training cycle up to my first 600 I did go as low as 185. I just was not feeling fast when I started with higher weights. Surely enough, Travis was correct, I ended up finishing that cycle with 365 for DE bench.

DE is very confusing for me as well. For my current Intensification Block I just finished my DE work with 340 and I know it did not feel fast enough. I think I need to work within parameters of percentages. If I am feeling good and strong I can work with the higher number. Conversely, if I am feeling like crap I can work lower. Being tied to a number does not always work for me.

If it's not fast with decent form, it's not DE work.

RhodeHouse
01-08-2012, 04:00 PM
I think basic percentages to GUIDE you are 50-70% if you're raw and 30-50% if you're shirted. This all takes into account accomodating resistance if you use it.

Like Vincent said, speed kills. The whole point of the day is to be fast. If you're not, then it's not speed work.

power16
01-10-2012, 02:12 PM
Thanks for all your help really helpfull