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walken1
05-30-2002, 08:03 PM
The supplement peddlers have all convinced the general public that browses their mags, that a man who works out with weights needs 1.5g of protein per pound of lean bodyweight. Like from 200g to 600g. What a bunch of crap! I don't even eat meat. I use 60-75g of quality whey or egg protein per day. Not only do I work out hard in the gym but I do alot of running as well. I used to do construction work all day and then come home and work out. I still ate this way. The key is this: Don't be one of the ant-carb morons. Maybe if these people actually ate enough carbs they wouldn't have to consume ridiculous amounts of protein, which ends up being inefficiently converted to fuel rather than rebuilding muscle. I eat carbs like a horse. Fat is the enemy!

WannaBeStrong
05-30-2002, 08:08 PM
Thank you Dr. Will.

EasyGino
05-30-2002, 09:01 PM
Will, everyones different in terms of protein need, sure you are very ripped, but you might not have the protein intake that is needed to sustain growth. Sure eating 250G of protein when you weigh in @ 150lbs is riddiculous, but in essense eating 150G of protein a day isn't that much, and really, im sure people prefer to eat meat then bread/vegetables.

Bobarell
05-30-2002, 09:04 PM
One word.....Genetics

Behemoth
05-30-2002, 09:27 PM
Ditto from borbarell

Walken1 - As your first post I find this a poor way to introduce yourself. If you eat 60-75g of protein per day and eat lots and lots of carbs and you stay ripped and big. Then there is ONE reason for this, you have an extreamly fast metabolism. Not all of us do! If most of us ate 60-75g of protein and hundreds of grams of carbs we would all gain much, much more fat than you'll ever see on yourself.

walken1
05-30-2002, 10:16 PM
You're just a kid. You can eat anything you want and I don't think you would get fat unless you're a couch potato when you are not working out......looking at your numbers, I doubt you are. I used to run cross-country when I was your age and I could not bench what you can. You got your whole life ahead of you and I think you're doing great!

Behemoth
05-31-2002, 07:05 AM
Thanks for the nice thoughts:) but I most certainitly cannot eat whatever I want. I'm sure my metabolism is still faster right now than what it will be in 10 years, but if I ate like most of my friends (the average teenager), I'd be about 30lbs heavier

YatesNightBlade
05-31-2002, 07:14 AM
Walken,

what do you think to Pro bodybuilder who eat 500g of protein a day ? Are they wasting there time too ?

Fat is not the enermy at all. EFA are hugly benefitial to a diet. Too many carbs will make you fat ... simple as. You do 16 mile runs for the love of god ...... you could eat half the rice in China and still be ripped, but you'd find it hard to go over 200lbs.

It all boils down to "Calories in Vs Calories out."

Carbs can, and in alot of cases are the enermy. I've learned this myself when I got to 270, due to too many carbs.

MarshallPenn
05-31-2002, 07:50 AM
500g's of protein Yates? I'll tell you they're wasting their time. Absolutely no need.

I agree it all boils down to cals in vs cal out, so how can carbs be the enemy then? Fat certainly isn't either.

I think the difference with Walken is that he is in this game for the health aspects, unlike a pro bodybuilder.

YatesNightBlade
05-31-2002, 08:37 AM
Originally posted by MarshallPenn
500g's of protein Yates? I'll tell you they're wasting their time. Absolutely no need.

* You'll tell them huh ?! Mmmmm Maybe Ronnie or Jay will listen when you tell them there 'doing it all wrong' and could make vast improvements with your wealth of knowledge and experience.

Don't forget Protein needs increase with the more Muscle Mass you carry.


I agree it all boils down to cals in vs cal out, so how can carbs be the enemy then? Fat certainly isn't either.

* Excess carbs are normally the enermy because they are usually the nutriant the bodybuilders over eat on. Look at when a bodybuilder gets ready for a contest ..... he manipulates his carbs. Full Glycogen stores and exess Gluscose in your blood stream will simply make you fat.

I think the difference with Walken is that he is in this game for the health aspects, unlike a pro bodybuilder.

*The rule applies to most people. As stated Walken does a hell of alot of cardio (hence the reason he's in great shape) but is not that heavy. It boils down to goals. He also apears bigger due to his low BF.

Tiare
05-31-2002, 08:53 AM
I think most people will agree with the idea that you are selling but not the method. Yes, 1.5g protein per body pound is a ton and your body won't use it all efficiently. There are many studies that indicate that your body can't use nearly that much protein for muscle growth.

Why do they say 1.5g/pody pound? Most of them sell protein. The more you take, the more you buy, the more $$ they make.

But protein is not the enemy. Neither are carbs or fats. They all play important roles in the body. The enemy is excess and poor planning.

Nobody can say what the 'correct' amount of any macro is. There are too many variables. Same with how much training you should do. All we can do is suggest what we see as being a guideline.

MarshallPenn
05-31-2002, 08:55 AM
Yates - You saying I don't know more than Ronnie or Jay? Or just throwing a cheap shot my way? :)

raniali
05-31-2002, 09:39 AM
Well - as I have stated before in other posts - when I started consuming 200-275g a day of protein, I made tremendous gains. I have read some stuff that indicated that the more protein you ingest, the more you actually digest. If you eat 30 g/day, your body won't digest 30 g. If you eat 500 g/day, your body won't digest 500 g but it will digest MUCH MORE than 30! Muscle is not built by carbs. It is built from the amino acids found in proteins - and personally I would rather have more than not enough.

And - as has been stated again and again - Every BODY is different.

MarshallPenn
05-31-2002, 09:49 AM
Regardless of the cost to your health? That's fine if that's your choice, it just doesn't work for me. I don't count my protein intake at all, but I would imagine it's between 100 and 200 grams a day at a bodyweight of over 200lbs.

If someone can show me studies that show one's body actually needs and uses that much protein, I would be greatly interested in reading it.

raniali
05-31-2002, 10:50 AM
Originally posted by MarshallPenn

If someone can show me studies that show one's body actually needs and uses that much protein, I would be greatly interested in reading it.

http://www.hypertrophy-specific.com/hsn_artcls_proteinmyths.html

Interesting reading.

The_Chicken_Daddy
05-31-2002, 10:54 AM
Originally posted by MarshallPenn
If someone can show me studies that show one's body actually needs and uses that much protein, I would be greatly interested in reading it.

Do you know of studies where high protein has caused kidney damage in people who don't already have kidney problems?

Blood&Iron
05-31-2002, 11:06 AM
Originally posted by The_Chicken_Daddy


Do you know of studies where high protein has caused kidney damage in people who don't already have kidney problems?
There are no long-term studies, at least of which I'm aware, looking at the sort of intakes some bodybuilders consume. From what we know of protein metabolism, it's safe to say it probably ends up being a bit taxing on the kidneys. Whether it ends up causing problems, who knows? Seeing, however, that their is not a shred of evidence that consuming above about 1g per lb of bodyweight is needed, I don't see a reason to chance it(I used to consume much more protein myself before I was convinced of this.) Personally, I think bodybuilders do need more than 60g of protein a day--and this is backed up by evidence--but there's nothing to suggest that 2g per lb and up is going to do anything than be a very inefficient and expensive source of glucose.

Vido
05-31-2002, 01:22 PM
Originally posted by TryingToBeBig
Thanks for the nice thoughts:) but I most certainitly cannot eat whatever I want. I'm sure my metabolism is still faster right now than what it will be in 10 years, but if I ate like most of my friends (the average teenager), I'd be about 30lbs heavier

:withstupi

Vido
05-31-2002, 01:53 PM
walken1...[edited out by Blood&Iron]...you look good, I'm not taking that away from you, but you run miles a day and obviously have a fast metabolism. "I only eat 65-70g of protein a day". *High-five*. "I don't even eat meat". *High-five*. "My diet consists of almost strictly carbs". *High-five*. There's no way I could be even close to as shredded as you if I didn't eliminate carbs almost completely. If it works for you then fine, do what you have to do. However, don't make a thread based on ridiculously generalized comments. Just so you are aware, what works for you might just not work for everyone else.

Clark
05-31-2002, 02:14 PM
Originally posted by Vido
walken1 [edited out by Blood&Iron] You look good, I'm not taking that away from you, but you run miles a day and obviously have a fast metabolism. "I only eat 65-70g of protein a day". *High-five*. "I don't even eat meat". *High-five*. "My diet consists of almost strictly carbs". *High-five*. There's no way I could be even close to as shredded as you if I didn't eliminate carbs almost completely. If it works for you then fine, do what you have to do. However, don't make a thread based on ridiculously generalized comments. Just so you are aware, what works for you might just not work for everyone else.

I have to say, this is probably the smartest thing I've read all day. Walken1 I would be willing to wager you that if you did eat meat you would be a hell of a lot bigger, and probably still (or just about) as cut. Also, saying that "fat is the enemy" is probably the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. For your information fat is extremely anabolic, and eating the right kinds will help your body immensely. [edited out by Blood&Iron]

MarshallPenn
05-31-2002, 03:03 PM
Well, as usual, an attempt at intelligent debate leads to insults here at WBB. Nice.

Blood&Iron
05-31-2002, 03:40 PM
Originally posted by MarshallPenn
Well, as usual, an attempt at intelligent debate leads to insults here at WBB. Nice.
I almost forgot I am a moderator. I have edited a number of posts, which perhaps should've been deleted entirely(But I felt they had some valid points of contention, so I was a bit lenient.) This is a reminder to everyone: keep things civil and limit your criticisms to others' ideas. Personal insults are unacceptable here at WBB.

Vido
05-31-2002, 03:41 PM
Originally posted by MarshallPenn
Well, as usual, an attempt at intelligent debate leads to insults here at WBB. Nice.

There's no need for a debate on this one. I can see from the pics that walken1 is a ripped mofo, no argument there. I just think he should refrain from running his mouth and making bogus generalizations.

Silverback
05-31-2002, 04:01 PM
damn right vido, quality point put forward

thalapathi
05-31-2002, 04:12 PM
Bryan and Lyle have made references to studies that said you need atleast 1g/lb of LBM and as an insurance probably, you could go upto 1g/lb.
I just stumbled upon this referenced article written by Will Brink on protein requirements.

http://www.dolfzine.com/page218.htm

BCC
05-31-2002, 04:21 PM
1.5g per pound of bodyweight doesn't even seem like much to me. I do 2g/lb when cutting. Fat sure is the enemy :rolleyes:

Monster Muscle
05-31-2002, 07:51 PM
How is anyone gonna put on mass with that little protein, that is a joke. You are pure cardio man. You need lots of protein for strenght and mass building. Without it you will be a joke. Let eating be your mass builder!

EMan
06-01-2002, 01:33 AM
Hey Yates,

What do you recommend as far as carb intake (low GI carbs) for a 205lbs guy on a bulking diet. I'm going into a very slow bulk, more like a maintenance so that I gain the smallest amount of fat possilbe and the most muscle. I'm planning on doing an isocaloric diet.

joonior
06-01-2002, 02:54 PM
don't pay attention to them walken1, they're just jealous :p
but damn, what is your BF%? you're pretty damn cut
and i agree with you... you see all these stupid ads that say "Eat 5 trillion grams of protein a day!" to me that sounds impossible...
but, then again, i'm not keeping close track of my dietary intake
in order to get that amount, you'd have to take about 6 protein bars a day. and at the $3 they sell them for, that comes out to about $540! i don't know about the rest of you, but i don't have that money laying around

walken1
06-02-2002, 08:08 PM
Look, all I was doing here is throwing out my theories based on my own experience and all of you jumped on me. I didn't personally attack anybody on this forum!! You are all so right.....some people can't eat all the carbs they want. I have to because I actually work for a living when I'm not in the gym!!

Clark
06-02-2002, 09:28 PM
Originally posted by joonior
don't pay attention to them walken1, they're just jealous :p
but damn, what is your BF%? you're pretty damn cut
and i agree with you... you see all these stupid ads that say "Eat 5 trillion grams of protein a day!" to me that sounds impossible...
but, then again, i'm not keeping close track of my dietary intake
in order to get that amount, you'd have to take about 6 protein bars a day. and at the $3 they sell them for, that comes out to about $540! i don't know about the rest of you, but i don't have that money laying around


ever heard of tuna?

joonior
06-02-2002, 10:41 PM
Originally posted by Clark ever heard of tuna?

hahaha, i dunno why, but that made me laugh.
sure, i love tuna, as long as i can mix it with mayo and relish and onions and pieces of egg and celery and mmmmm.....
i want some!
of course that probably makes it unhealthy, right?
i really wish i didn't love to eat food so much.

body
06-03-2002, 04:34 AM
Originally posted by The_Chicken_Daddy


Do you know of studies where high protein has caused kidney damage in people who don't already have kidney problems?

to add a BB who did not drink much alcohol or take ssteroids either as well. as if they got kidney damage but doing the above to drugs, then how do you know it was the protiens fault.

you have to assume the person also drank enough water a day as well.

this will make finding a study very hard to say protein cause liver damage.

i remeber reading a abstract where some people took 400 grams a day for a peroid of time and got no adverse effect.
but do not remember much more than that.

body
06-03-2002, 04:48 AM
Originally posted by MarshallPenn
500g's of protein Yates? I'll tell you they're wasting their time. Absolutely no need.

.

some bber may by taking certain compounds that can allow for increased protien sysnthesis.

its better to be safe than sorry. also with pro's in the off season weighing up to 300 pounds, they will be eating 6,000 + kcals, when eating this much, you are going to be eating lots of protien as its in your food.

if your lively hood depened on bbing, its best to do a bit more even if its a waste of money as they have not got the luxury of hitting the ideal amount if bulking. they do not want to loose a ounce of muscle.

plus they get the protein free from the deals.

Kayak_boy
06-03-2002, 05:03 AM
The gas thing here is that the photo Walken1 has put up here isn't of him. I've seen it elsewhere and know it's origin is Russian.

So keep smashing in the protein, the carbs and some fat!!

:)

walken1
06-03-2002, 06:14 AM
No Kayak-boy, it is actually my damn photo......If you look closely at the skull tatoo on my shoulder.....that is the USMC close combat logo. I was one of seven close combat instructor trainers teaching hand-to-hand combat at Camp Lejuene for 4 years. I'll send you another photo holding my damn ID card if you like! Don't make up crap you don't know anything about. I've been all over this world, my friend, and I've done things in the Marines that you could never begin the fathom! Call me a cardio monkey if you like, but I'm also a cardio monkey that can kick some ass!

Maki Riddington
06-03-2002, 09:48 AM
It's one thing to dismiss Walkens statement it's another to attack him personally. Don't!! Or I will start editing posts!!!
Whether he is right or wrong is up for some debate.
He has acomplished a lot and his physique speaks of his hard work.

WannaBeStrong
06-03-2002, 09:56 AM
walken1: Get rid of the mustache.


Was that too personal, Maki? ;)

ElPietro
06-03-2002, 11:11 AM
Kayak_Boy please before you make any statements as you did please find absolutely irrefutable proof first. To say what you did without any proof will still discredit walken in some people's eyes even though you cannot back this up. So before you tarnish people's image of someone on this board please have some evidence of this.

Many people post pics here and I'm sure many are false pics. But regardless of this we judge people by their words more than anything else. Walken has a great physique and he has worked hard for it. I wouldn't discredit him lightly. I disagree with his training methods but he is lean and in great shape so good for him. As long as we realize there are many ways to get where we need to go and that his method is very difficult to maintain...unless you have a career such as in the military that allows you the time to put yourself through pt as a part of your career. Lifestyle is often a very big factor in how you must train...I'm sure anyone else who has a cushy desk job knows what I mean.

Maki Riddington
06-03-2002, 12:29 PM
Well said EL.

Tbizkit
06-03-2002, 02:01 PM
Walken1 I believe you read your mag wrong or they wrote it wrong it's 1.5g per KILOGRAM! of bodyweight which 1 kilo=2.2lbs I made the same mistake it's still alot the most useful book I got On the subject was "Power Eating" great book and it tells you need 8 grams of carbs per kilo of bodyweight so much for low carb diets.

Vido
06-03-2002, 03:18 PM
Originally posted by Tbizkit
Walken1 I believe you read your mag wrong or they wrote it wrong it's 1.5g per KILOGRAM! of bodyweight which 1 kilo=2.2lbs I made the same mistake it's still alot the most useful book I got On the subject was "Power Eating" great book and it tells you need 8 grams of carbs per kilo of bodyweight so much for low carb diets.

There's tons of books out there all telling you different things. Just because one guy thinks something or even if it works for him doesn't mean he's right or it will work for anybody else. See what works best for you.
Also, I don't know if the book is called "Power Eating" for any particular reason, but if it is based on strength training needs then more carbs are necessary. However, most of us here wish to look good, first and foremost.

YatesNightBlade
06-06-2002, 02:46 AM
Originally posted by EMan
Hey Yates,

What do you recommend as far as carb intake (low GI carbs) for a 205lbs guy on a bulking diet. I'm going into a very slow bulk, more like a maintenance so that I gain the smallest amount of fat possilbe and the most muscle. I'm planning on doing an isocaloric diet.


I think BODY summed the whole post up with this one simple statement :- "It's better to be safe then sorry".

It's all about finding the optimal.

EMAN, in terms of your carbs ...... it's hard to say. I could tell you 500g, but i'd be guessing, I don't know what your metabolisms like, what activities you do etc etc. I would stick to low GI carbs and Fiberious carbs (still have high GI post workout). Something like 100g with every meal would be a guess. Listen to your body ...... if your tired and feel 'over trained' add more carbs, if you feel your adding fat ...... lower them. Only adjust slightly.

Hope this helps.

Kayak_boy
06-06-2002, 07:56 PM
Sorry to upset you guys so much. I saw that same photo on a Russian suppliment site and his name wasn't walken1 and he wasn't American, so who am I to believe??

Feel free to edit my posts Maki, I've got no problem being kept quiet!!!

walken1
06-06-2002, 09:50 PM
Kayak boy, the photo was taken in front of my brother-in-laws crappy garage in Oxford, NC. I'm not a Russian. Feel free to look at some of my other photos in Wannabe big and take a closer look! People tell me all the time that I look just like somebody they know.....could just be I look like alot of guys. Also, look at the background....does that look like professional photography to you?

Kayak_boy
06-06-2002, 10:14 PM
Mate, I've taken it back, I've been rapped across the knuckles about it, ok??

You wanna do a search on the net and find the guys who are using your photo and get a commission for it!!!:D

walken1
06-06-2002, 11:00 PM
Sorry, I was just trying to clear that up. So, How's Sysdney? I've been all over the world with the military and never got to stop in Australia.....those that have love it!

mickeys
06-12-2002, 05:38 PM
just imagine if you ate about 50-100 more grams of protein.. you'd be bigger... and fat isnt the enemy.. people on high protein low carb diets usually consume lots of good fat.. so the fat will be used as energy, not the protein. fat also slows absorbtion of proteins into your body...

Budiak
06-13-2002, 12:27 AM
Maybe its because of all the toxis waste in those barrels he's standing in front of.


Ever take a little dip for your lower lip there, Walken?

Regardless of your toxic habits, I would be fatter than human words or even emotions could describe or tolerate if I ate that little protein.

Saint Patrick
06-13-2002, 12:32 AM
Saturated Fat is the enemy IMHO.

YatesNightBlade
06-13-2002, 03:00 AM
This thread has had it's day.