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View Full Version : How much protein is too much?



sharksnumber2
01-23-2012, 07:09 AM
So about a month ago I went to my doctor for a check up. I had gained about 25 pounds in 10 months since the last time I saw him from all the lifting and eating I had been doing. He commented on this and told me that I should probably stop upping my weight because although a lot of it is muscle, it puts the same amount of strain on the heart.

When I told him I drink protein shakes mostly after my workouts he didn't seem too happy either. He told me this was bad for my kidneys and that at most I should be getting only 20g of protein more than whatever the daily value is (a little under 100g I think).

I'm just curious on what people's take on his information is. I'm sure people have made bigger weight gains than me in 10 months... Is it really that bad on the heart? I've read and been told to have 1.5g per pound in protein every day to efficiently gain muscle. According to my doctor, that is too much. Opinions, facts?

chevelle2291
01-23-2012, 07:17 AM
So about a month ago I went to my doctor for a check up. I had gained about 25 pounds in 10 months since the last time I saw him from all the lifting and eating I had been doing. He commented on this and told me that I should probably stop upping my weight because although a lot of it is muscle, it puts the same amount of strain on the heart.

When I told him I drink protein shakes mostly after my workouts he didn't seem too happy either. He told me this was bad for my kidneys and that at most I should be getting only 20g of protein more than whatever the daily value is (a little under 100g I think).

I'm just curious on what people's take on his information is. I'm sure people have made bigger weight gains than me in 10 months... Is it really that bad on the heart? I've read and been told to have 1.5g per pound in protein every day to efficiently gain muscle. According to my doctor, that is too much. Opinions, facts?

Your doctor sucks.

in b4 belial.

Alex.V
01-23-2012, 07:30 AM
Your doctor sucks.

in b4 belial.

Hmph.

Alex.V
01-23-2012, 07:42 AM
So about a month ago I went to my doctor for a check up. I had gained about 25 pounds in 10 months since the last time I saw him from all the lifting and eating I had been doing. He commented on this and told me that I should probably stop upping my weight because although a lot of it is muscle, it puts the same amount of strain on the heart.

When I told him I drink protein shakes mostly after my workouts he didn't seem too happy either. He told me this was bad for my kidneys and that at most I should be getting only 20g of protein more than whatever the daily value is (a little under 100g I think).

I'm just curious on what people's take on his information is. I'm sure people have made bigger weight gains than me in 10 months... Is it really that bad on the heart? I've read and been told to have 1.5g per pound in protein every day to efficiently gain muscle. According to my doctor, that is too much. Opinions, facts?

To expand just a wee bit... Weight gain in and of itself isn't really the problem- physicians are taught that weight gain is usually a bad trend in their patients that should be avoided at ALL COSTS. The reasoning is more or less sound- the lifestyle choices that contribute to weight gain are NORMALLY fairly negative (low activity level, diets high in calories/sugar/fat, etc. etc.)... so the statistics generally bear out the assumption that weight gain -> heart disease, but fail to mention that obesity itself rarely taxes the heart as much as comorbid conditions like atheroscelrosis or type II diabetes.

Simply being heavier than normal doesn't strain your heart. It truly doesn't. The heart has a remarkable ability to adapt to the increased blood volume, and your overall lifestyle, provided you're exercising on a regular basis and eating relatively healthy foods (I would assume this is a given) puts you light-years ahead of the majority of heavier patients (or even "healthy weight" patients) he sees. So, truthfully, I wouldn't worry about his guidance in this regard.

As far as protein goes- again, a bit of a myth there. True, for dialysis patients and people with end-stage renal failure, protein is tough to process. But for healthy kidneys, protein is by no means toxic- simply because they are processing a great deal of nitrogenous waste does not mean they are being damaged. To assume otherwise would be like saying "Driving a car on flat tires is bad for the wheels, therefore you should never drive your car". If a system is broken, you do everything possible to NOT use it, but if a system is healthy, normal usage will not damage it. There have been plenty of human populations throughout history that have consumed high protein diets, and I have never seen any data showing a definitive link between a high protein diet and long-term kidney damage. The link isn't even there theoretically.

In both cases, your doctor is viewing two things (Weight gain and a high protein diet) through the lens of a pathologist, not the lens of a scientist. I wouldn't call him a fool, but I would say that his recommendations in both regards to not apply to you.

That said, 1.5 g/ pound of bodyweight may not be bad for your kidneys, but it's still probably overkill for muscle gain.

Cheers.

sharksnumber2
01-23-2012, 09:29 AM
To expand just a wee bit... Weight gain in and of itself isn't really the problem- physicians are taught that weight gain is usually a bad trend in their patients that should be avoided at ALL COSTS. The reasoning is more or less sound- the lifestyle choices that contribute to weight gain are NORMALLY fairly negative (low activity level, diets high in calories/sugar/fat, etc. etc.)... so the statistics generally bear out the assumption that weight gain -> heart disease, but fail to mention that obesity itself rarely taxes the heart as much as comorbid conditions like atheroscelrosis or type II diabetes.

Simply being heavier than normal doesn't strain your heart. It truly doesn't. The heart has a remarkable ability to adapt to the increased blood volume, and your overall lifestyle, provided you're exercising on a regular basis and eating relatively healthy foods (I would assume this is a given) puts you light-years ahead of the majority of heavier patients (or even "healthy weight" patients) he sees. So, truthfully, I wouldn't worry about his guidance in this regard.

As far as protein goes- again, a bit of a myth there. True, for dialysis patients and people with end-stage renal failure, protein is tough to process. But for healthy kidneys, protein is by no means toxic- simply because they are processing a great deal of nitrogenous waste does not mean they are being damaged. To assume otherwise would be like saying "Driving a car on flat tires is bad for the wheels, therefore you should never drive your car". If a system is broken, you do everything possible to NOT use it, but if a system is healthy, normal usage will not damage it. There have been plenty of human populations throughout history that have consumed high protein diets, and I have never seen any data showing a definitive link between a high protein diet and long-term kidney damage. The link isn't even there theoretically.

In both cases, your doctor is viewing two things (Weight gain and a high protein diet) through the lens of a pathologist, not the lens of a scientist. I wouldn't call him a fool, but I would say that his recommendations in both regards to not apply to you.

That said, 1.5 g/ pound of bodyweight may not be bad for your kidneys, but it's still probably overkill for muscle gain.

Cheers.

Awesome, thanks for clearing this up! Btw, GO DUKE

ZAR-FIT
01-23-2012, 09:50 AM
Docotor dont make any money from protein shakes... so shitty doctors will only give you shitty advice.... they too are just business men/ sales men

Alex.V
01-23-2012, 12:16 PM
Awesome, thanks for clearing this up! Btw, GO DUKE

You.

Are my new favorite forum member.

PE Expert
02-02-2012, 01:27 PM
how do you actually loss your weight in an simplest way?

drew
02-03-2012, 06:03 AM
Belial knows all.

Except Duke sucks.

Alex.V
02-03-2012, 09:48 AM
Except Duke sucks.

Careful, man, or I'll..... argue with you on the internet.

drew
02-03-2012, 10:18 AM
Careful, man, or I'll..... argue with you on the internet.

You wouldn't.

Alex.V
02-03-2012, 10:48 AM
You wouldn't.

I would. And recent data on wikipedia content updates show that (insert poorly considered link to current discussion here).

Look, see for yourself:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21731630

vikingsroad
02-04-2012, 04:51 PM
you've got to understand like 2/3 of americans are considered obese, and thats the fat unhealthy kind, not the "I lift weights, eat lots of good foods, and weigh more as a result, contrary to my BMI"

how come anytime someone does something like eat lots of protein people. not just doctors find any bad for it, but when someone says "ive cut my fast food down from 5 times a week, to 5 times every two weeks," doctors give the thumbs up for improvement?

"Ive started eating lots of tuna fish to get healthier" "you shouldnt do that it has mercury in it. Now onto my pesticide infested veggies and growth hormone saturated beef, from a resturant...or grocery store."

Why? Why you ask? its convienent to find all thats wrong with tuna when most people dont like the way it taste....plus all the dateline "we know stuff" specials on it.

same goes for protein, to get the best from protein you cant just eat mcdonalds to get it....very inconvenient

chris mason
02-05-2012, 08:11 AM
In both cases, your doctor is viewing two things (Weight gain and a high protein diet) through the lens of a pathologist, not the lens of a scientist. I wouldn't call him a fool, but I would say that his recommendations in both regards to not apply to you.

That said, 1.5 g/ pound of bodyweight may not be bad for your kidneys, but it's still probably overkill for muscle gain.

Cheers.

I would call his doctor the same as many, uninformed or misinformed on the issue. His doctor is espousing myths which definitely get perpetuated in the medical community.

The funny thing is if he told his doc he eats lunch, and that lunch happened to be chicken breasts, the doc would think that is great... Ignorance...

vikingsroad
02-14-2012, 07:06 PM
it really is ignorance, doctors really arnt trained in nutrition like they should be and anyone who believes good nutrition is a great way to combat ailments and as a measure of preventing illness is viewed as a homeopathic yoga hippie who is a democrat. yes drugs are good, infact a life saver in countless cases, but their used when good old fashioned diet and hard work could quite possibly fix the problem...and if it doesnt, then lets use some drugs, because obviously something in your body isnt functioning properly.

drugs,drugs,drugs, they are the answer to everything....

Behemoth
02-14-2012, 10:12 PM
it really is ignorance, doctors really arnt trained in nutrition like they should be and anyone who believes good nutrition is a great way to combat ailments and as a measure of preventing illness is viewed as a homeopathic yoga hippie who is a democrat. yes drugs are good, infact a life saver in countless cases, but their used when good old fashioned diet and hard work could quite possibly fix the problem...and if it doesnt, then lets use some drugs, because obviously something in your body isnt functioning properly.

drugs,drugs,drugs, they are the answer to everything....




I suggest PCP, it'll make you alert,strong and fast, whilst keeping the "painkilling" effect of prescription heroin.

Not that I would ever take a general practitioners advice without a grain of salt... but I'm pretty sure I've never had one suggest I try PCP

vikingsroad
02-14-2012, 11:11 PM
Originally Posted by RhodeHouse
I'd never do it, but I'm sure being there was great. I played summer league lacrosse and had 1 beer at halftime. It was the worst thing I've ever felt. tired, heavy and useless on the field. Sport and drinking has never mixed at the same time for me.

Gimme some pain killers and we have a different story.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
vikingroad painkillers, ha! they slow everything down internally, and I think making response time significantly slower than that of marijuana. if you were tired on alchohol you'd fall asleep on painkillers, not to mention if you didnt have a full stomach, you'd get very sick and probably throw up acid.

I suggest PCP, it'll make you alert,strong and fast, whilst keeping the "painkilling" effect of prescription heroin.


<------you forgot those parts. also note i used "prescription heroin." this would denote im villianising painkillers and drugs in general.

way to go, taking bits of what someone said, and not mentioning what it was a response to. I'll put in a great word for you over at fox news...what the heck ill send one to CNN too! (on the house)


I find nothing wrong with what he said(rhodehouse) I dont really give a s.hit if people use drugs, but I gave a funnyfunny to a funnyfunny post.

Behemoth
02-15-2012, 12:27 AM
<------you forgot those parts. also note i used "prescription heroin." this would denote im villianising painkillers and drugs in general.

way to go, taking bits of what someone said, and not mentioning what it was a response to. I'll put in a great word for you over at fox news...what the heck ill send one to CNN too! (on the house)


I find nothing wrong with what he said(rhodehouse) I dont really give a s.hit if people use drugs, but I gave a funnyfunny to a funnyfunny post.

No context was altered. PCP is a shit thing to suggest to somebody -- consequently the rest of your advice is likely garbage.

LuNa
02-15-2012, 12:51 AM
Vikingsroad, mind posting some statistics (age, weight, height, lifting experience, numbers on the big three). Also, "5 years on and off" wont cut it if you want to give out advice.

vikingsroad
02-15-2012, 01:11 AM
No context was altered. PCP is a shit thing to suggest to somebody -- consequently the rest of your advice is likely garbage.

garbage..are you from jersey? who says that. GAH-BAGE.

context was altered dummy, i didnt recommend he take PCP, I said it, it was a funyfuny..because it was,well...funny.

And why arnt you attacking him for saying he "takes booze and pk's" while playing lacrosse? its ok to express that you use drugs during lacross, but if you recommend it to someone who says they already do that, and what you recommend is better than what they do and it was a funnyfunny. its GAH-BAGE? GAH-BAGE I SAY! its a juhrsey thing.

and to luna vachon, if 5 years on and off doesnt "cut it" why would you even ask for my age,stats, a picture of me with my shirt off? I dont bench 500, I dont squat 6,000, I cant deadlift a car. yes, your right. But if I had good lifts and posted them....would you even believe me?
ps your stats.....Bench - 2x225lbs - 1x300lbs
Squat - 3x350lbs - 1x400lbs
Deadlift - 3x440lbs - 1x500lbs LOL! dude, YOU dont cut it! im stronger than you LOL!

and finally, best for last...to me.....Fuck this place, people here are assholes. they wait till someone with a high post count challenges you, then they all jump naked on eachothers back and try to rape you out of here....well you aint getting to my butthole, shaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa.....peace!.

LuNa
02-15-2012, 04:50 AM
and to luna vachon, if 5 years on and off doesnt "cut it" why would you even ask for my age,stats, a picture of me with my shirt off? I dont bench 500, I dont squat 6,000, I cant deadlift a car. yes, your right. But if I had good lifts and posted them....would you even believe me?
ps your stats.....Bench - 2x225lbs - 1x300lbs
Squat - 3x350lbs - 1x400lbs
Deadlift - 3x440lbs - 1x500lbs LOL! dude, YOU dont cut it! im stronger than you LOL!


Which is exactly why you dont see me giving advice.

Im not trying to be an asshole, but when someone is going against the grain with their advice, then i would like to understand the lifting experience he has that lead to that advice.

Alex.V
02-15-2012, 04:53 AM
and finally, best for last...to me.....Fuck this place, people here are assholes. they wait till someone with a high post count challenges you, then they all jump naked on eachothers back and try to rape you out of here....well you aint getting to my butthole, shaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa.....peace!.

Slow clap, folks, for the quickest flameout I've seen here yet.

dynamo
02-15-2012, 06:29 AM
I like this thread. Thank you.

Niko_El_Piko
02-15-2012, 06:44 AM
Good point Belial.
The real f*ck up is clinical doctors shouldn´t talk about supplements or certain medicines. Thats what biochemists are there for.
I heard the shit about protein powders damaging kidneys at least from 5 doctors. None of them had a clue, how a protein poder is obtained.

Behemoth
02-15-2012, 08:20 AM
context was altered dummy, i didnt recommend he take PCP, I said it, it was a funyfuny..because it was,well...funny.


Sorry. I read your PCP comment to be a serious suggestion as an alternative to painkillers for a training individual. I didn't realize it was a "funnyfunny". You have my apologies.

K-R-M
02-15-2012, 12:13 PM
Good point Belial.
The real f*ck up is clinical doctors shouldn´t talk about supplements or certain medicines. Thats what biochemists are there for.
I heard the shit about protein powders damaging kidneys at least from 5 doctors. None of them had a clue, how a protein poder is obtained.

What's a clinical doctor? All practicing doctors work in a clinical setting.


To answer: yes, doctors are taught that in some cases high protein intake can be bad for your kidneys and weight gain is closely linked to higher risk of cardiovascular disease(think bell curves). Now, like any professional, doctors should be able to use their judgment for each individual. No where in our litterature is it written or proved that muscle gain puts the same strain(whatever that means) on the heart (that is completely retarded). It is written though that BMI is not a good tool for athletes, that stastitics work for a normal individual in a normal population (i.e. not a lot of muscle mass, a lot of abdominal fat) and that abdominal fat is a much greater risk for disease than bodyfat %.

That said, protein is fine, you don't have kidney failure. Your doctor sucks, get one that's up to date with research.

joey54
02-15-2012, 08:26 PM
garbage..are you from jersey? who says that. GAH-BAGE.

context was altered dummy, i didnt recommend he take PCP, I said it, it was a funyfuny..because it was,well...funny.

And why arnt you attacking him for saying he "takes booze and pk's" while playing lacrosse? its ok to express that you use drugs during lacross, but if you recommend it to someone who says they already do that, and what you recommend is better than what they do and it was a funnyfunny. its GAH-BAGE? GAH-BAGE I SAY! its a juhrsey thing.

and to luna vachon, if 5 years on and off doesnt "cut it" why would you even ask for my age,stats, a picture of me with my shirt off? I dont bench 500, I dont squat 6,000, I cant deadlift a car. yes, your right. But if I had good lifts and posted them....would you even believe me?
ps your stats.....Bench - 2x225lbs - 1x300lbs
Squat - 3x350lbs - 1x400lbs
Deadlift - 3x440lbs - 1x500lbs LOL! dude, YOU dont cut it! im stronger than you LOL!

and finally, best for last...to me.....Fuck this place, people here are assholes. they wait till someone with a high post count challenges you, then they all jump naked on eachothers back and try to rape you out of here....well you aint getting to my butthole, shaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa.....peace!.

VoJdb1TLLJQ

FearFactory
02-15-2012, 08:44 PM
Fantastic movie.

korey
02-15-2012, 08:59 PM
Know something funny he was on at 2:11am he must have really hated yall INTERNET WARRIOR FTW!

Alex.V
02-16-2012, 05:57 AM
Know something funny he was on at 2:11am he must have really hated yall INTERNET WARRIOR FTW!

He was, man. Every thread a battleground! Every disagreement a chance for poor pedantry! Proudly bearing the flag of immaturity, armed only with wikipedia and google, he proudly and fearlessly enters the fray, knowing full well that every post could be his last.

If you're right, it doesn't matter.

Internet Warrior will prove you wrong.

Niko_El_Piko
02-16-2012, 03:12 PM
What's a clinical doctor? All practicing doctors work in a clinical setting.


I mean a Family Doctor... you are right.

JSully
02-16-2012, 03:45 PM
Internet Warrior will prove you wrong.

Much like the Honey Badger, he don't give a shit.