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Stonecutter
02-15-2012, 05:40 PM
Really sucks to say this because I went years without any significant injuries, and I think I've just gotten two in the past two weeks, right after I just signed up for my first PL comp.

Just finished my 6th workout of Smolov Jr Bench, and I feel like I'm definitely getting stronger, but last week I hurt my shoulder. It doesn't actually hurt much while I'm benching (if form is there), but does if I move it certain ways and if my form breaks down at all I can feel it more. Have benched twice since I hurt it and it hasn't hurt any more, but also no less.

Also, think I just hurt my lower back DLing today :mad:

What should I do about both? Shoulder feels like I can work through it but don't want to make it worse.

Murderous
02-15-2012, 06:20 PM
If it hurts from slight rotations it is ideal to wear an arm sling, or to tape up your arm onto your collar bone or the side of your neck.

Stonecutter
02-15-2012, 06:29 PM
If it hurts from slight rotations it is ideal to wear an arm sling, or to tape up your arm onto your collar bone or the side of your neck.

It's not bad enough to that point... and I can't do either of those anyway

chris mason
02-15-2012, 09:54 PM
What do you mean you think you hurt your lower back?

An overuse injury would not surprise me on Smolov. You really should not do that program.

Murderous
02-15-2012, 11:13 PM
It's not bad enough to that point... and I can't do either of those anywayI would just give it a week's worth of rest and then hit it with no more than 80% of your max with a PL bench setup and elbows tucked in well. Of all of my minor shoulder injures from benching it hasn't took me longer than to rest for two weeks from benching heavy. Letting it rest now will only allow recovery to progress faster... Start doing prehab conditioning for your shoulders after every workout.

Stonecutter
02-16-2012, 03:08 AM
Thanks Murderous. Where can I find some prehab/conditioning/mobility stuff for shoulders? I've always kind of wanted to incorporate something as I think they are inflexible, but didn't know what to do.


You really should not do that program.
This statement is based on what?

And I don't really know what you're asking about my back....how did I do it? or how does it feel?

Murderous
02-16-2012, 03:29 AM
There are a lot of good shoulder injury prevention exercises out there, remember to use really light weight: for rotator cuffs; external shoulder rotations, cuban press, for the ac joint any type of shoulder rotation IMO is good for strengthening those ligaments, circle rotations, shoulder dislocations, shoulder raises as well as light OHP, for the scapulas and the small muscles such as the rhomboids you could do band pull aparts, pushups on a med ball with feet up on a bench while trying to maintain stability.

Read more: http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/sports_body_training_performance_repair/pushups_face_pulls_and_shrugs

Travis Bell
02-16-2012, 10:24 AM
Before you end up just doing general shoulder mobility stuff, you haven't described what type of movements are causing you pain? What kind of pain is it? Burning or sharp. Has there been any swelling or bruising?

RhodeHouse
02-16-2012, 01:41 PM
What do you mean you think you hurt your lower back?

An overuse injury would not surprise me on Smolov. You really should not do that program.

Couldn't agree more.

Stonecutter
02-16-2012, 03:38 PM
Before you end up just doing general shoulder mobility stuff, you haven't described what type of movements are causing you pain? What kind of pain is it? Burning or sharp. Has there been any swelling or bruising?
Not burning or sharp. Really just feels like muscle soreness I guess. When I feel it during BP it just hurts more ....not really any difference in type.


Couldn't agree more.
Again, what is your basis for this statement, seeing as you have no idea what my training level is, what programs I have done previously, and what weight I was using? If you can provide reasoning behind your remark, please do. It would be much more helpful to me both now and in the future.

Niko_El_Piko
02-16-2012, 06:31 PM
Stonecutter, Smolov is complete sh*t. The original programme is crazy and all the adaptations are simple abortions.

A random list of goog shoulder savers/rotator cuff/mobility drills:
Y-T-W: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=12i9VmaIpx0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=...ture=endscreen

Shoulder dislocations with broom stick + band aparts + Face pull.

This one is good with bands: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y4Wo095zPnc

Stonecutter
02-16-2012, 06:49 PM
Stonecutter, Smolov is complete sh*t. The original programme is crazy and all the adaptations are simple abortions.
Please expand.


A random list of goog shoulder savers/rotator cuff/mobility drills:
Y-T-W: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=12i9VmaIpx0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=...ture=endscreen

Shoulder dislocations with broom stick + band aparts + Face pull.

This one is good with bands: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y4Wo095zPnc

Thanks for all the shoulder stuff everyone! Probably should have been doing some of this stuff prior to the injury.

Oh and Travis, no swelling or bruising...forgot to answer that before.

RhodeHouse
02-16-2012, 07:17 PM
Not burning or sharp. Really just feels like muscle soreness I guess. When I feel it during BP it just hurts more ....not really any difference in type.


Again, what is your basis for this statement, seeing as you have no idea what my training level is, what programs I have done previously, and what weight I was using? If you can provide reasoning behind your remark, please do. It would be much more helpful to me both now and in the future.

If you weren't such a fucking dickhead it might help you get a good answer.

I'm bigger, stronger and smarter than you. Just by the nature of your questions and responses I can tell you have little experience, a closed mind and aren't coachable at all. I lable that as "useless" in my world.

ScottYard
02-16-2012, 08:26 PM
If you weren't such a fucking dickhead it might help you get a good answer.

I'm bigger, stronger and smarter than you. Just by the nature of your questions and responses I can tell you have little experience, a closed mind and aren't coachable at all. I lable that as "useless" in my world.

True

Niko_El_Piko
02-16-2012, 08:41 PM
Please expand.


Smolov was orignally introduced in an iron curtain regime, so survaival of the fittest was the law.
Lots of men and women were selected and only a few that could keep the insane volume of training without injuries would prevail.
The actual adaptations of the Smolov are abortions and will only fit newbies. Newbies will make progress with almost ANY routine.
That been said, and considering your own experience with shoulder issues, not much can be further said here.

Oh, and by the way, revise your technique in the BP.

theBarzeen
02-16-2012, 09:47 PM
Good advise doesn't have to feel good..... LOL


Either way, if you are close to a meet and the pain is tolerable I'd just up your recovery efforts and back off a little bit.
I like to back off as I get close to a meet anyways, I like to come in fresh, but everyone is different there.

My general 1st reaction to any non-serious injury is to drastically up my intake of fish oil and glutamine, then start flushing the area out with good deep tissue work, stretching, and high-rep low-weight work.

Not knowing what your injury is exactly I can't help past that.... but that's where I always start.

Stonecutter
02-17-2012, 03:54 AM
If you weren't such a fucking dickhead it might help you get a good answer.

I'm bigger, stronger and smarter than you. Just by the nature of your questions and responses I can tell you have little experience, a closed mind and aren't coachable at all. I lable that as "useless" in my world.
You have demonstrated that you are, in fact, exactly what you're calling me....and it seems clear that you are not smarter than me, but that's another issue. If you actually read my posts, I am quite the opposite of not coachable. You interpreted my question as sarcasm, though it was not. I simply asked for an explanation so I understand. If YOU weren't acting like such a dbag, you would realize that to follow advice like, "you really shouldn't do that program," without any explanation behind it, is very stupid and can be the road to nowhere...not to mention I would not learn anything.

I'm sure you would not just blindly agree with someone without knowing why they were saying what they did. Me asking why IS attempting to learn AND be coached.

I don't know what drove you to act the way you did so quickly...hopefully you don't always react like that, but I did not and do not wish to bicker with you, or anyone else for that matter. I am open to any advice, and if you have all of this knowledge, I would appreciate that you share it. This is what forums are meant for.

Stonecutter
02-17-2012, 03:56 AM
Smolov was orignally introduced in an iron curtain regime, so survaival of the fittest was the law.
Lots of men and women were selected and only a few that could keep the insane volume of training without injuries would prevail.
The actual adaptations of the Smolov are abortions and will only fit newbies. Newbies will make progress with almost ANY routine.
That been said, and considering your own experience with shoulder issues, not much can be further said here.

Oh, and by the way, revise your technique in the BP.


Good advise doesn't have to feel good..... LOL


Either way, if you are close to a meet and the pain is tolerable I'd just up your recovery efforts and back off a little bit.
I like to back off as I get close to a meet anyways, I like to come in fresh, but everyone is different there.

My general 1st reaction to any non-serious injury is to drastically up my intake of fish oil and glutamine, then start flushing the area out with good deep tissue work, stretching, and high-rep low-weight work.

Not knowing what your injury is exactly I can't help past that.... but that's where I always start.

Thanks guys. I thought my BP technique had gotten so much better hah. I will try and get a video up some day so I can get a better assessment.

FWIW, how much training would one need to be considered past the stage of newbie gains?

JasonLift
02-17-2012, 11:45 AM
. I don't know what drove you to act the way you did so quickly...


I am not speaking for Rhodes, but I am going to guess and say he reacts that way that quickly because of the repeated pattern of people asking top lifters for advice and not liking the answer that they get and arguing with them about it. Since I have been a member of this board I have seen it happen more times than I can remember.

I remember one of my high school football coaches telling us to do some drill and one of our players asked him why he was having us do it a certain way and his answer was "Because I ******* told you to, that's why."

RhodeHouse
02-17-2012, 12:00 PM
You have demonstrated that you are, in fact, exactly what you're calling me....and it seems clear that you are not smarter than me, but that's another issue. If you actually read my posts, I am quite the opposite of not coachable. You interpreted my question as sarcasm, though it was not. I simply asked for an explanation so I understand. If YOU weren't acting like such a dbag, you would realize that to follow advice like, "you really shouldn't do that program," without any explanation behind it, is very stupid and can be the road to nowhere...not to mention I would not learn anything.

I'm sure you would not just blindly agree with someone without knowing why they were saying what they did. Me asking why IS attempting to learn AND be coached.

I don't know what drove you to act the way you did so quickly...hopefully you don't always react like that, but I did not and do not wish to bicker with you, or anyone else for that matter. I am open to any advice, and if you have all of this knowledge, I would appreciate that you share it. This is what forums are meant for.

Whatever you tell yourself, it must be true.

Responding with this bullshit, then PM'ing me saying you don't want it to get out of hand. Wrong order of operation. As I stated earlier, you ARE absolutely uncoachable. You're young and stupid and really have no clue what you're doing. When someone who is better, stronger and/or more experienced than you are, you SHUT THE FUCK UP AND LISTEN. If you want to know why, figure it for yourself.

Do you think Vincent Dizenzo explained why when he told me what to do? NO! But, I wasn't stupid enough to ask why. I just did as I was told. I'm smart enough to figure out the why on my own. It's called critical thinking. Work on it.

This is why I warm up with your maxes.

Stonecutter
02-17-2012, 03:18 PM
Fair enough. I see your point. Can you suggest a better program for me?

Phyde2
02-17-2012, 06:00 PM
Could simply be a shoulder impingement. Do your shoulders round forward a good bit? Try doing door way stretches to loosen your pecs and anterior deltoid. I also would maybe guess that your pressing movements outnumber your rowing movements by a good amount (could not just a pure guess). I was reading somewhere today Andy Deck suggests 1:1 ratio while also saying he himself had heard 2:1. Try band pull aparts and face pulls to counteract possibly over developed anterior deltoids and grow those posterior delts.

If it hurts after a training session ice it.

I am no way a M.D. or P.T. just my educated guess based on your current training regimes and new nature to the sport.

Stonecutter
02-17-2012, 06:11 PM
Thanks. My pressing is generally pretty balanced with pulling now. I aim for at least 1:1 like you said. Also i feel that back strength/health will be important in my profession so i figure a little more work is generally a good thing. My setup for Smolov had pull ups and rows one two of the days, and face pulls and anther pull exercise on the other two. I also do pull ups in my apartment sometimes as additional work. Admittedly it used to be off balanced so it could definitely be from incorrect training previously. I do think my shoulders are anteriorly rounded but I'm not sure if that's just because I assumed they would be when i checked. I will figure that out and work on it.

April Mathis
02-17-2012, 08:59 PM
If it doesn't really hurt while benching I don't really see the problem. Probably just need to take a week off. It sounds like you're just benching a little bit too often or too heavy for too many weeks in a row (I don't know what the actual routine you are doing looks like), not a real injury.

Also, I hope you never plan on actually benching 400 or more, because if so, you better get used to things like that are just normal aches and pains when you are feeling good.

Stonecutter
02-18-2012, 06:00 AM
Gotcha. I don't mind working through them...thats really my problem hah. I just always tend to push too far and hurt it worse. Thanks for the advice

Tim K
02-18-2012, 09:07 PM
Whatever you tell yourself, it must be true.

Responding with this bullshit, then PM'ing me saying you don't want it to get out of hand. Wrong order of operation. As I stated earlier, you ARE absolutely uncoachable. You're young and stupid and really have no clue what you're doing. When someone who is better, stronger and/or more experienced than you are, you SHUT THE FUCK UP AND LISTEN. If you want to know why, figure it for yourself.

Do you think Vincent Dizenzo explained why when he told me what to do? NO! But, I wasn't stupid enough to ask why. I just did as I was told. I'm smart enough to figure out the why on my own. It's called critical thinking. Work on it.

This is why I warm up with your maxes.

Bolded for emphasis. Too many people want answers spoon fed to them without having to put forth any effort or thought. There are several people in this thread that are respected for their achievements and accomplishments. When they say something, it behooves one to listen and try to figure out the why on their own. That is how you really learn. The rest - well that is just memorization.

Once you have what you feel is a pretty good answer, the experts will be more than happy to tell you if you're on the right track or not.

The inability to recognize that the volume in Smolov is stupid demonstrates an abundance of ignorance about training. It is so blatantly obvious to the more experienced lifters that the inability to see it is akin to being blind and stupid. Kind of like sticking your fingers in an electrical socket and wondering why it hurts. It should be pretty obvious that one is the result of the other, but you continue to do it anyway.

Stonecutter
02-18-2012, 10:50 PM
I don't want to be spoon fed. Effort or critical thinking are not things that I lack. I see how it could have come off that way, and that's unfortunate but not the case. I am taking the advice and moving forward.