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View Full Version : An idea to keep less bombouts at big bench meets



vdizenzo
03-03-2012, 10:37 AM
Curious on everyone's thoughts on this:

Make them last man standing contests. Start with something in the 7's and then take 25-50 lb jumps. You miss an attempt and you're out.

Yes, 900-1000 lb benches are great, but the public doesn't give a crap whether it's 700 or 1,000 lbs. They are crazy numbers they'll never attain regardless. The crowd would be much more impressed by seeing a dozen guys bench 700 than watch the majority of lifters bombout.

Guys will have to dial back their equipment. However, I think it will be a great marriage of who is really strong and who knows how to work their gear.

I don't think this should be the standard for all benching. Heck going for broke on big numbers is great. Who does not love a pr. However, when we are at the Arnold again we can't embarass our sport anymore. I am as guilty as anyone. I bombed the Arnold way back. The pressure at big venues can be different and you have to be prepared.

Make guys start at a certain number at qualifying events. This format would be very crowd friendly for all lifts. Just my .02

AZBengoshi
03-03-2012, 01:01 PM
Love it. I think I would enjoy watching contests more if they were handled this way. As you say, no one likes to watch people bomb, and with some of the openers people select, some contests seem to be comprised almost entirely of missed attempts.

ScottYard
03-03-2012, 02:35 PM
I think this will also give more entertainment to the meet. nice idea vin.

Travis Bell
03-03-2012, 03:36 PM
Heck I'm in. I think it'd be fun. There hasn't been a big bench meet in awhile that drew a lot of attention positively. I think something like this would be great

RhodeHouse
03-03-2012, 05:47 PM
I love the idea.

I would also throw out that anyone whose invited to compete at a meet HAS to open with the weight they hit at their last meet or less.

The problem with powerlifting and especially the bench only guys is they (not all) have no pride in hitting lifts. Some, like that baffoon Mendelson, take these ridiculous weights that there is no way in hell they could ever hit. It is truly embarassing and one of the reasons I may not use gear again.

Dank27
03-03-2012, 06:02 PM
I like the idea but it seems it may really hurt guys ability to attempt a PR. What if you had a mix of both thoughts. Guys must hit their first attempt in order have a shot at their last 2. If they go 3 for 3 they can get extra attempts. I know I am kind of rambling and throwing random ideas in the mix but I just think guys going for big numbers is great but I also agree with you that seeing a guy go 1 for 3 in the bench (Let alone 10 guys doing it) Is not fun for anyone.

Travis Bell
03-03-2012, 07:29 PM
I like the idea but it seems it may really hurt guys ability to attempt a PR. What if you had a mix of both thoughts. Guys must hit their first attempt in order have a shot at their last 2. If they go 3 for 3 they can get extra attempts. I know I am kind of rambling and throwing random ideas in the mix but I just think guys going for big numbers is great but I also agree with you that seeing a guy go 1 for 3 in the bench (Let alone 10 guys doing it) Is not fun for anyone.


Vin is recommending this for pro meets where you would have a minimum starting bench. Yes it might hurt guys ability to hit a big PR but the problem right now is guys are shooting for big PRs on their first or second attempt and not getting through the meet. It's just silly.

The idea is simple and effective. Using the lighter opening weight forces guys to dial back the shirts a little (making them more likely to get several attempts in). Not that I'm against the most gangster gear you can wear, I love gear. But something has to change for this to be more realistic in big meets. Although I think if some guys worked at touching the lighter weights, they'd be surprised how their gear wouldn't even have to change a whole lot.

April Mathis
03-03-2012, 08:05 PM
Greater than 3 attempts like this questions the legitimacy of the lifts for records, because you only get 3 attempts at a regular sanctioned meet (and sometimes 4 at most in some national and world meets, which still does not count towards a total if it is a full meet), not 6 or 10 or whatever it may end up being in something like this. I think it changes the rules of powerlifting otherwise. And really unless the prize is a large sum of money, what big lifter is going to want to go to a meet where they are likely not going to hit a big pr because they have to do so many attempts beforehand (and in looser gear if it is a gear meet)? It wastes too much energy for the biggest attempts. And if you only have one good shirt and can't touch 700, then you bomb anyways without even getting a chance to try something bigger.

That being said, if it's just an exhibition stage show type thing, this is fine. Kind of like the animal cage at the Arnold. Some cool strength feats, but nothing that counts as a contest lift.

vdizenzo
03-04-2012, 09:25 AM
Greater than 3 attempts like this questions the legitimacy of the lifts for records, because you only get 3 attempts at a regular sanctioned meet (and sometimes 4 at most in some national and world meets, which still does not count towards a total if it is a full meet), not 6 or 10 or whatever it may end up being in something like this. I think it changes the rules of powerlifting otherwise. And really unless the prize is a large sum of money, what big lifter is going to want to go to a meet where they are likely not going to hit a big pr because they have to do so many attempts beforehand (and in looser gear if it is a gear meet)? It wastes too much energy for the biggest attempts. And if you only have one good shirt and can't touch 700, then you bomb anyways without even getting a chance to try something bigger.

That being said, if it's just an exhibition stage show type thing, this is fine. Kind of like the animal cage at the Arnold. Some cool strength feats, but nothing that counts as a contest lift.

Most of the best benchers in the country showed up to the olympia to do a rep contest in shirts. If you have a big meet at a big venue, you'd get plenty of people to show up. Everyone is so worried about numbers, how about competing? How about a watchable contest. Multi ply powerlifting has gotten to the point where family members don't even want to be there. I understand a bomb here and there, but when you get more bombs than lifts at a big bench meet, something has to change.

Records in this country are a joke. You have millions of records between age, fire, police, master, sub master, open, junior, APF, UPA, APA, oh wait, there's single ply, multi ply, raw, raw with wraps, monolifts, no mono, etc. Enough already. The only person who cares about all these records is the person staring back them in the mirror. There are very few "world record" worth bragging about anymore.

Considering I wrote this and Travis Bell liked it, we have two top benchers already interested. It's time to make this sport watchable for the masses. I am not saying this is the way to go for all meets. It might just be a way for us not to get our asses thrown out of the Arnold again for being completely unwatchable.

kingns
03-04-2012, 10:59 AM
I agree. Watching big bench contests at this point is a joke. It would be way more fun watchin the big benchers go raw or a to a USAPL meet where they would hit hundreds of pounds less. But actually get lifts in. And as for spectators, powerlifting is only so fun to watch, and when only 1/3 of the attempts get made it completely looses any entertainment value

Travis Bell
03-04-2012, 02:46 PM
haha well I don't know about the USAPL being the way to go. I mean c'mon now, its not THAT bad.

April I see what you're saying about the records, but like Vincent said, this wouldn't be so much about the records as much as creating a great meet.

However should the records become an issue, I'm not sure why they wouldn't count them. Taking more attempts in this format really isn't going to give you a big advantage. In fact it'd probably hold you back a tad because of the endurance needed to make it through the end of the meet. I think it'd make it pretty exciting.

Niko_El_Piko
03-04-2012, 09:06 PM
Records in this country are a joke. You have millions of records between age, fire, police, master, sub master, open, junior, APF, UPA, APA, oh wait, there's single ply, multi ply, raw, raw with wraps, monolifts, no mono, etc. Enough already. The only person who cares about all these records is the person staring back them in the mirror. There are very few "world record" worth bragging about anymore.


Thats the raw truth. I couldn't agree more.
Besides that, I agree with Vince.

ThomasG
03-04-2012, 10:27 PM
Most of the best benchers in the country showed up to the olympia to do a rep contest in shirts. If you have a big meet at a big venue, you'd get plenty of people to show up. Everyone is so worried about numbers, how about competing? How about a watchable contest. Multi ply powerlifting has gotten to the point where family members don't even want to be there. I understand a bomb here and there, but when you get more bombs than lifts at a big bench meet, something has to change.

Records in this country are a joke. You have millions of records between age, fire, police, master, sub master, open, junior, APF, UPA, APA, oh wait, there's single ply, multi ply, raw, raw with wraps, monolifts, no mono, etc. Enough already. The only person who cares about all these records is the person staring back them in the mirror. There are very few "world record" worth bragging about anymore.

Considering I wrote this and Travis Bell liked it, we have two top benchers already interested. It's time to make this sport watchable for the masses. I am not saying this is the way to go for all meets. It might just be a way for us not to get our asses thrown out of the Arnold again for being completely unwatchable.

Slowclap.gif

Rob Luyando
03-05-2012, 07:52 PM
Vincent you are brilliant! LOL!

chris mason
03-05-2012, 09:06 PM
I look at the training. From what I have seen a LOT of shirted benchers don't touch with weights prior to a meet. They go to 2 boards, 1 boards etc., but never touch and then try to guess what they can touch with in a meet and bomb out. The difference between a boarded press and touching is significant even from a neural standpoint. Not performing a full ROM press prior to a meet makes no sense and is a recipe for a miss.

vdizenzo
03-06-2012, 05:33 AM
I look at the training. From what I have seen a LOT of shirted benchers don't touch with weights prior to a meet. They go to 2 boards, 1 boards etc., but never touch and then try to guess what they can touch with in a meet and bomb out. The difference between a boarded press and touching is significant even from a neural standpoint. Not performing a full ROM press prior to a meet makes no sense and is a recipe for a miss.

There are a few guys who have mastered this. Rob for one (being injured he gets a pass for sure from the xpc, he's always been consistent with I think a few glitches when he went from Inzer to Overkill which is understandable), Kennelly, and the guys from Big come to mind. The problem is, they are the exception and not the rule. That being said, guys just won't give up their boards. This has been going on for a long time and won't change anytime soon. Hey if people want to bomb at meets, bomb away. We just can't have it at large venues such as the Arnold, otherwise Danny's hard work to get it back will be gone in the blink of a dump-I mean eye.

vdizenzo
03-13-2012, 10:00 AM
Spoke to Gene yesterday and he told me that they are seriously considering the idea. This would be very cool.

JK1
03-13-2012, 11:14 AM
I'm not one of the best benchers out there, but I'm willing to get up there and push it a bit.

I like this idea. I'm game.

basbolstar
03-13-2012, 01:27 PM
One of the best ideas I have heard. I would love to see this.

Make it raw too!

Rob Luyando
03-13-2012, 01:58 PM
Thank you for the pass Vincent. I will keep my thoughts to myslef.......

vdizenzo
03-13-2012, 06:14 PM
Thank you for the pass Vincent. I will keep my thoughts to myslef.......

You are one of the best benchers in the world. I know I'd like to hear your thoughts.

April Mathis
03-14-2012, 07:14 PM
Most of the best benchers in the country showed up to the olympia to do a rep contest in shirts. If you have a big meet at a big venue, you'd get plenty of people to show up. Everyone is so worried about numbers, how about competing? How about a watchable contest. Multi ply powerlifting has gotten to the point where family members don't even want to be there. I understand a bomb here and there, but when you get more bombs than lifts at a big bench meet, something has to change.

Records in this country are a joke. You have millions of records between age, fire, police, master, sub master, open, junior, APF, UPA, APA, oh wait, there's single ply, multi ply, raw, raw with wraps, monolifts, no mono, etc. Enough already. The only person who cares about all these records is the person staring back them in the mirror. There are very few "world record" worth bragging about anymore.

Considering I wrote this and Travis Bell liked it, we have two top benchers already interested. It's time to make this sport watchable for the masses. I am not saying this is the way to go for all meets. It might just be a way for us not to get our asses thrown out of the Arnold again for being completely unwatchable.

I could see requiring someone open with a number that they have done previously and successfully, and allow 4th attempts for a record. Or like I said unsanctioned exhibition makes perfect sense the format you are saying. It seems at the Arnold there are bigger lifts in the cage exhibition style than on the platform much of the time.

What I was thinking about is what if I were put in the same situation where everyone else I am competing against is lifting a couple hundred pounds less than me so I would have to open under what some of their lifts are, instead of a number I know I'm comfortable with and will be easy anyways. I could imagine a few of the top benchers 900 and above may feel this way if they were required to open at 700 or so. Letting them open with an easy number for them that they have proved to have lifted in other contests previously may be a better option. This might have already been said but I didn't want to read through everything again.


haha well I don't know about the USAPL being the way to go. I mean c'mon now, its not THAT bad.

April I see what you're saying about the records, but like Vincent said, this wouldn't be so much about the records as much as creating a great meet.

However should the records become an issue, I'm not sure why they wouldn't count them. Taking more attempts in this format really isn't going to give you a big advantage. In fact it'd probably hold you back a tad because of the endurance needed to make it through the end of the meet. I think it'd make it pretty exciting.

It has been brought up in regards to Clash of the Titans lifts shouldn't count due to a similar style lifting in previous years. Is it right or not, I don't know but the argument does make sense. I actually plan on possibly doing one of these meets in the next year or two, but I assume it to be more of a fun meet to do than anything else (much like what Vincent is proposing with this). I think it was changed back to a regular format anyways.


My final comment though: Enough prize money would bring a lot of big lifters, regardless of the format. It also could not be any worse than some of the lifting I've seen passed recently. If anything, it would be 100x more legitimate if the rules are followed than some of what has been going on with judging recently. And from a spectator standpoint, it probably would be more interesting to watch. I was just commenting reasons in which you may have some top lifters not want to compete in it. When I bench over 700 with a shirt I would also rather have it be on a big stage, so I do see the point of keeping this part of the big events interesting to watch and kept in the Arnold and other places for years.

vdizenzo
03-14-2012, 08:08 PM
April, I think you are a bit naive, the point of starting with around 700 is to get guys to use more reasonable shirts. I know most big time benchers say they can touch anything in their shirt. That is often not the case. This number hunting is what has made benching unwatchable. At the recent XPC 25 out of 36 benchers bombed. Due to no fault of the XPC mind you. Do you think for one second those 25 lifters planned on bombing? We are not to be trusted. And yes, this would absolutely be an exhibition, but still a contest.

patricky
03-14-2012, 10:49 PM
I love the idea.

I would also throw out that anyone whose invited to compete at a meet HAS to open with the weight they hit at their last meet or less.

The problem with powerlifting and especially the bench only guys is they (not all) have no pride in hitting lifts. Some, like that baffoon Mendelson, take these ridiculous weights that there is no way in hell they could ever hit. It is truly embarassing and one of the reasons I may not use gear again.

Baffon Mendelson? Only the 1st man in the world to bench 715 raw. Put your money where your mouth is.

drew
03-15-2012, 05:52 AM
Vin,

It's a brilliant idea. Hopefully we can see it become reality.

Travis Bell
03-15-2012, 08:18 AM
Baffon Mendelson? Only the 1st man in the world to bench 715 raw. Put your money where your mouth is.

You must be joking right?

He's a super raw bencher, but Mendelson can't bench in a shirt to save his life. This is a thread about equipped benching so try and stay on topic

Chicksanboy
03-15-2012, 08:33 AM
Yes, Bafoon Mendleson. He has more bombs than actual lifts....yet as soon as he bombs, he hits the computer to post how he hit a 1200lbs 1 board in training. I cant stand him and I wish he would simply go away

RhodeHouse
03-15-2012, 10:58 AM
Baffon Mendelson? Only the 1st man in the world to bench 715 raw. Put your money where your mouth is.

I'm not talking about his raw lift, dipshit. I'm talking about his consistent bombing in gear. i can miss 1000 or 1100 on the bench just like him.

RhodeHouse
03-15-2012, 11:03 AM
April, I'm gathering that you're missing the whole point. The idea is about competition. If one guy benches 700 to start, everyone has to do the same in order to move on. When you mniss, you're out.

The only event that I clearly remember at a strongman contest was the Deadlift Last Man Standing. I don't even remember where they started or how heavy it got. 12 guys started and 1 man beat everyone else. That's competition. It doesn't matter what the weights are. It's about going through the gaunlet against 10-12 other guys and winning. Being mentally and physically conditioned to kick ass no matter how many atempts there are.

Geared powerlifting is a joke, as we've all mentioned. This is a way to make it watchable. If some jackass comes in with a shirt too tight and bombs on the first attempt, at least we don't have to watch him bomb 2 more times.

i love the idea and hope that Gene makes this reality.

Rob Luyando
03-15-2012, 11:12 AM
Lets get back on topic Vincent is brilliant!

As for Mendy namecalling is not necessary. Anyone who has been in the sport lfor any amount of time knows what he's all about. No question that physically he is probably the strongest bencher alive. But unfortunately he is the worst technichian in the game and has been for quite some time.

Yeah I know this coming from a guy that just bombed.......... again. I used to be consistant............ does that count for anything? LMAO!

BloodandThunder
03-15-2012, 11:32 AM
April, I'm gathering that you're missing the whole point. The idea is about competition. If one guy benches 700 to start, everyone has to do the same in order to move on. When you mniss, you're out.

The only event that I clearly remember at a strongman contest was the Deadlift Last Man Standing. I don't even remember where they started or how heavy it got. 12 guys started and 1 man beat everyone else. That's competition. It doesn't matter what the weights are. It's about going through the gaunlet against 10-12 other guys and winning. Being mentally and physically conditioned to kick ass no matter how many atempts there are.

Geared powerlifting is a joke, as we've all mentioned. This is a way to make it watchable. If some jackass comes in with a shirt too tight and bombs on the first attempt, at least we don't have to watch him bomb 2 more times.

i love the idea and hope that Gene makes this reality.

I always thought that exhibition contests should run with the old system of picking weights instead of the rounds (similar to how OL does it). Lowest to highest, no restarts. This way if you pick a manageable weight to open, you get rest for a bigger attempt and it makes it easier on the audience. I also like your suggestion too.

These type of expo meets and exhibitions need to cater to audience more. What makes the event fun and watchable? That will move towards more outside sponsorship besides gear companies and the occasional supplement company. More money and the best competition will come out and lift creating a more intense meet. Not having 80% of the meet bomb is a start. I always liked how WPO presented meets (lighting, card girls, etc.), just a shame finances fell through. But the collection of talent on those stages was very impressive.

I really wish the SPF and XPC could pull their talent together for one RUM style pro meet once a year and have the best talent on one stage regardless of fed. Make a uniform set of rules and throw a ton of cash. IF you want the cash, conform to the rules.

Rhodes, another good thing with starting and having everyone lift the same weight? You don't have to waste time loading!!!
Reason 1 why PLing will never be on live TV.

Chris Smith
03-15-2012, 11:57 AM
I will give my input on this since I competed in this meet, and actually had a good day and placed 2nd, and went 2 for 3 on my attempts. Take the boards away, and work the shirt in a full range of motion--when doing lighter sets, just press the weight up when the shirt locks up. I competed in a meet 1 month before this meet. My opener was 720. I did touch this once in training, but most of the time used 1 or 1/2 board. At that meet, had trouble touching the 720--it would hang up right where the 1/2 board was, then struggle that last little bit. Bombed. I was fuckin pissed!! Something had to change. Went back to the gym, and asked Kara Bohigian Smith for help. I handed over the reigns to her and her husband Craig for my shirt work. First thing they said was we are getting rid of boards. I had 2 shirted sessions with them before the meet. At the XPC meet, I lowered my opener to 705. Went out and touched with ease--same shirt, same bodyweight. Some of it was mental, but the groove of the shirt felt so much better going down. It is amazing when you dont burn up alot of energy trying to touch--the weight goes up alot easier. lol. Kara and Craig are continuing to work with me on technique and set up/ mobility issues. I am positive I will hit a PR in my next meet, and I have been around a while and getting old (44). Kara is sure I will go 800 at 242 in the future as well as long as I can keep the injury bug at bay.

Rob Luyando
03-15-2012, 12:19 PM
Smitty you have one good meet and now all the sudden your a pro? LOL! Just messing with you! You found your issues and corrected them and came back for more! Congrats!

April Mathis
03-15-2012, 04:42 PM
April, I think you are a bit naive, the point of starting with around 700 is to get guys to use more reasonable shirts. I know most big time benchers say they can touch anything in their shirt. That is often not the case. This number hunting is what has made benching unwatchable. At the recent XPC 25 out of 36 benchers bombed. Due to no fault of the XPC mind you. Do you think for one second those 25 lifters planned on bombing? We are not to be trusted. And yes, this would absolutely be an exhibition, but still a contest.

I guess it is kind of unreasonable not to be able to bring the bar down and touch with 700lbs. looking at it that way. If I was a spectator that watched one of these events and knew nothing about shirts, I would probably find that really strange. I won't even do a meet with a shirt until I find one I am comfortable touching whatever I would open with and pressing it easily every time, so I guess it's hard for me to imagine anyone going into a meet just guessing what they might be able to touch with. Pretty much everyone I have lifted with that competes with gear has known what they can touch with and have done so at least once or twice before a meet and has not had a problem with an opener unless it was way out of groove or something like that. So that's the way I am thinking about it I guess. But from what you mention, I guess a lot of big lifters are not doing this now.

Travis Bell
03-15-2012, 04:46 PM
Smitty, I could not agree more on how guys should train in a shirt. I actually pulled out of the Ironman because I had been touching in the gym and knew I was no longer going to be able to fit into that shirt. Weights that I needed to touch were just not working.

That said, it still doesn't fix the problem of bomb outs at meets. We can't go around saying guys aren't allowed to train with boards lol. I agree with what was said earlier, if these pro meets are going to be brought out from "underground" so to speak, they HAVE to be more interesting to watch.

Unless I'm reading April's response incorrectly, I don't think she's against the idea? Just voicing her thoughts on why some people may not be on board. It's an understandable argument. Any time you bring something new to a meet format, things will get interesting.

So Rob, does your response indicate you'd be on board with such an approach?

Rob Luyando
03-15-2012, 05:09 PM
Travis. I am busting Vincents balls and he knows why. I have been in this sport for 20 years and have had my share of good meets to go along with a few bad meets. One thing has and always will be consistent about me is I say where I'm going to lift, when I'm going to lift and how much I'm going to lift. I did the rep thing at the Olympia and Dallas and although it was fun I didn't really consider it a real meet. If its going to be a real meet the lifters need to pick their weights not the meet directors. If a concern is bombouts then pick the best consitent lifters you can and enforce the two strikes and your out rule like they did in the WPO days. I am am going to compete in a meet it will always be on my terms no one will ever tell me what my attempts will be. Also for a successfull meet the equipment has to be legit. I have been to meets where warm ups were shit and lifters performances were shit. I have been to meets where warm ups were kick ass and performance on the platform was kick ass for the majority of the lifters. If the equipment, platform, and warm up is sufficient lifters will perform. I know this to be fact having lifted on the stage of the Arnold on two occasions. 1st year the warm up cituation was horrific and majority of the guys bombed. I was lucky to sneak one in for the win. I bitched to KK about it and the following year the warm up area was better and the majority of the lifters all performed well. I am not picking on the WPO but thats just an example. I have been to other big meets were situations were similiar to both examples.

Chris Smith
03-15-2012, 05:21 PM
LOL Rob. As you know, I have had my fair share of bombs at meets over the past few years. The last meet I bombed literally made me sick to my stomach. Had enough, and needed to do something different. I think it is definately a state of mind thing--either PR / break a record, or not. That is what we are all after. No one goes to a meet and thinks they are going to bomb out. But also there really is no consequence if you do bomb out. Maybe that could be an incentive for the XPC at the Arnold?? If you bomb out at the meet, then you will not be allowed to compete the following year? Hell, I dont know!!
I agree Travis, no way to outlaw boards. lol. All I am going to do is worry about my training and my teams training. That is the only thing I can control.

Rob Luyando
03-15-2012, 05:35 PM
I would tend to disagree. There are always consequences. If you bomb at a meet you just wasted however many weeks of training, suppliments, entry fee, travel costs. And I agree that everyone has to find what they need to do to correct their problems they are having after they have a bad meet. Boards no boards it all up to the lifter on how they train and prepaire for a meet. Many successful lifters have used boards for years and haven't had issues. Many successfull lifters have had success with out boards as well. Bottom line is find what works for you and fix what ever issues you the individual have be it strength, technique, or injuries.

April Mathis
03-15-2012, 09:59 PM
Unless I'm reading April's response incorrectly, I don't think she's against the idea? Just voicing her thoughts on why some people may not be on board. It's an understandable argument. Any time you bring something new to a meet format, things will get interesting.


You're correct Travis. I'm not against it. Just bringing up points that will be brought up if you try to get someone to promote this. I guarantee at least some lifters will want to know if they break a record, will it count and be viewed as legitimate? And the promoters are gonna want to know good lifters are going to show up when you change it to a different format like that. Although if someone comes up with a $10,000+ prize for the winner at least (and maybe a few grand for 2nd and 3rd), I'm sure a good amount of people that have a shot at winning would show up regardless of format (if someone can find that amount of sponsorship money).

Travis Bell
03-16-2012, 03:39 AM
Travis. I am busting Vincents balls and he knows why. I have been in this sport for 20 years and have had my share of good meets to go along with a few bad meets. One thing has and always will be consistent about me is I say where I'm going to lift, when I'm going to lift and how much I'm going to lift. I did the rep thing at the Olympia and Dallas and although it was fun I didn't really consider it a real meet. If its going to be a real meet the lifters need to pick their weights not the meet directors. If a concern is bombouts then pick the best consitent lifters you can and enforce the two strikes and your out rule like they did in the WPO days. I am am going to compete in a meet it will always be on my terms no one will ever tell me what my attempts will be. Also for a successfull meet the equipment has to be legit. I have been to meets where warm ups were shit and lifters performances were shit. I have been to meets where warm ups were kick ass and performance on the platform was kick ass for the majority of the lifters. If the equipment, platform, and warm up is sufficient lifters will perform. I know this to be fact having lifted on the stage of the Arnold on two occasions. 1st year the warm up cituation was horrific and majority of the guys bombed. I was lucky to sneak one in for the win. I bitched to KK about it and the following year the warm up area was better and the majority of the lifters all performed well. I am not picking on the WPO but thats just an example. I have been to other big meets were situations were similiar to both examples.

Fair enough. I see your point.

The two strikes thing would probably help as well.

Man do I ever remember the warmup room as well (I wasn't competing) what a hectic place that was at the WPO

I completely understand your point about wanting to pick your own weights, take 3 attempts and that's it. No nonsense, no fluff just lifting. I don't bomb hardly ever. it's happened a couple of times, but not very frequently so for me, the traditional system isn't a problem. I like it the way it is.

What is your personal opinion on the overall status of the bigger bench meets though? You've been around the sport a lot longer than I have so I'm interested.

Obviously I have no impact on the success or failure of this idea, I'm just expressing my opinion. I'm just a goofball who's too lazy to squat.

Cricket_Fire
03-16-2012, 05:56 AM
I like the idea; the continual jumps would actually make it seem more like competition opposed to a bunch of people going for individual personal records

What if they did something along the lines of raising entry fees, and giving the extra back if you don't bomb? (ie. instead of charging $100, charge $250 but if you make a lift you get the $150 back). The extra money from people who bomb could be used for meet expenses or prize money

My gym does a similar thing for a weightloss competition we run every year... not sure if it would work in this situation but it'd definaetly make me pick my attempts smarter lol

joey54
03-16-2012, 07:24 AM
This is like they did in the NFL with the incline press at the lineman challenge for a number of years at the pro bowl. It wouldn't be a powerlifting contest per say, but it would be a great competition which could be done with any or all if the 3 lifts which would speed up meet time and make it more interesting for sure. Internal competition is great, but this would be fun to watch.

RhodeHouse
03-16-2012, 09:28 AM
If powerlifting "thinks" it can ever become a mainstream, viewer friendly "sport" changes need to be made. i understand that Vincent's idea is not considered a true powerlifting event. Powerlifting sucks to watch. i love lifting, but you couldn't pay me enough to watch it because of all the bombouts, not just the bench only huys, either. The sport is boring as all hell. The only people that care about it are us lifters.

Take a look at what CrossFit has done. There's a commercial on TV with Ochocinco promoting Reebok and CrossFit. Powerlifting will never be popular like that, but Crossfit is kicking Strongman ass on TV. Didn't they move Strongman for the CrossFit games?

It's been proven just recently in the XPC meet that majority of egotistical powerlifters are incapable of choosing weights they can touch, let alone lift. What happened to the days of not being able to press the weight? Now we can't touch it?????????????????? This is just a retarded concept for me. I get that ridiculous gear is here to stay. That doesn't mean all multi-ply contests have to be embarassments to the sport. We can still have meets were 85% of the lifters bomb out.

Why can't we have a meet where reasonable numbers are chosen and we can all compete to see who is the best that day? I get the whole "I'm a powerlifter and I'm a control freak so no one's gonna tell me what weight to lift blah, blah, blah..." Strongman weights are chosen and the guys just lift them. Why can't powerlifting take a page from that book for a few contests a year where we don't look like douchebags that can't make the bar touch our chests or can't squat deep enough cuz the gear is too tight???????????????????????????????????????? Maybe I'm fucked up? Maybe it would be fun to watch guys actually lift weight instead of pray for the bar to be in the right groove with the sun and Jupiter's moons aligned properly in order to maybe touch their chest.

I know I'm asking for too much. Lowering weight contests are here to stay.

Rob Luyando
03-16-2012, 09:59 AM
Travis I will PM you.........

kara
03-16-2012, 06:32 PM
I love Vinny's idea and think a contest in this format would be great. I expressed my support on Outlaws a few weeks ago but the post is too far back to find now. Basically I said the increasing weight/last man standing format (vs. the round system) is very exciting to watch and can make things much more entertaining for the spectators. Hype it as a specialized meet like a pro challenge or bench-off. Not trying to change the traditional 3 attempt style, but mixing it up like this could be a real success. Also the preparation for this sort of meet, getting accustomed to touching lighter weights and conditioning yourself to make more attempts, could be very beneficial when you return to a regular format competition.

kara
03-16-2012, 06:38 PM
Kara is sure I will go 800 at 242 in the future as well as long as I can keep the injury bug at bay.


:thumbup: At LEAST.

Thank you for the props Smitty, but you did the work and put it all together at the meet! Just think what training is going to be like if one of these last man standing meets happens...Craig will have you pushing the prowler and flipping the tire between sets for endurance lol!

chris mason
03-16-2012, 07:49 PM
Hi Kara. Glad you are posting here :).

kara
03-16-2012, 07:55 PM
Hey Chris! The forum looks great. Glad my account was still good :) Hope you've been doing well!

bencher8
03-16-2012, 08:26 PM
My thoughts on this. Probly not wanted..i have bombed a lot lol

First, i dont think a lot of lifters are just "guessing" at what numbers it takes to touch. They might be using boards or not, but for the most part they have done what they are opening with in training or have done it at a meet. I have seen lifters use boards exclusively in training and touch just fine. I have also seen lifters touch everything in training and bomb at a meet. Just saying a blanket statement like "dont use boards" or " just open lighter" doesnt always work.

Second, this idea could work, but a lot of big lifters might not like the fact they might not get a shot at a record or even a pr. Money can change this some, but who knows.

Third, how does the starting bar weight get chosen? This format could result in 6-8 attempts. The lifter doesnt get a say in any of his attempts. All chosen before by a person who doesnt know what that lifters training has been like or what that lifter is capable of?

Seems like a long shot. I dont know.....maybe?

bencher8
03-16-2012, 08:46 PM
This reminds me of a thought i had a while back about big meets and format changes. Since this is march and the ncaa bball tourney is going on lol. What about a tournament style format? 3 weight classes. 6-8 lifters per class. 2 lifters are matched by closest best lifts in prior meet. Lowest number picks a number and both lifters have to attempt it. One misses they are out and moves on to the next "round". Last man standing wins.

Example: vinny vs. Paul
i pick starting weight since vinny has benched more than me(840 vs 850).
I pick 750 and we both hit it. I got 1st pick so vinny gets to pick next weight. He picks 805. He hits it and i miss. Vinny wins and moves on.

You would have to have at least 8 in each of the 3 classes for this to work, but it also allowa to keep lifters in the meet ans still gives them the ability to picks some of their attempts. I dont know. Probly stupid. One thing for sure. Rob will say i over thought the whole thing lol

vdizenzo
03-16-2012, 08:59 PM
Guys and girls, I like all the ideas. I may have added to this, but I don't want to be a problem. I love this sport. I love multiply lifting. I wish everyone the best with whatever they choose. Anyone who knows me knows I never root for people to miss, especially those i compete against. I just do my best to be better that day.

This is my idea. I presented it to Gene and he likes it. I am hoping we can put something together to show everyone just how f%cking cool it can be. I want benching back at the Arnold. From what I gather multiply powerlifting is in, but benching is not necessarily. That says something right there.

I apoloqize if I offended anyone as that was not my intent. My true intent is to be a part of what I think will be one of the most exciting bench contests that has been put on in some time.

Rob Luyando
03-17-2012, 11:26 AM
OK I have talked this over with Vincent and even talked with Gene about the possibilities. All I can do is keep an open mind and what ever is decided for the next big meet I will consider it. I say fuck all of you guys that can't bench over 850 lbs. I'm all for starting at 900 lbs and moving up from there. If I have to start at 700 lbs I'm going to have to do about 10 singles to hit a PR. I'm sure guys like Roadhouse have awesome cardio and stamina and can do 10 sets of compitition reps all ego aside. Some dude that benches 400ish doesn't impress me when he runs his mouth.

Like I told Gene I will listen to the meet options and decide if its worth my time or not. Becuase despite what some of you little people may think this old fucker still has a lot in the tank!

bencher8
03-17-2012, 12:31 PM
Boom....stuff just got real! Lol.....hey, wait a min, i cant even bench 850. Damn rob, why you gotta be so mean? Lol

kara
03-17-2012, 01:02 PM
Rob, your post reminded me of something I forgot to add in my first post. My enthusiasm for this format is more for the "last man standing" concept than anything. They do this with some of the events in Highland Games and the crowd loves it...but the guys choose where they want to open. If a similar style was done for bench and the bar started at 700, you wouldn't HAVE to come out until 900++ or whenever you felt like it. I realize this doesn't solve the problem of bomb outs, but I'm not sure requiring low openers is a complete solution either. I hope y'all will continue brainstorming and talking about it some more. I just think from a fan/spectator standpoint it would be cool to see you guys get on a roll and keep going 'till one person is left kinda thing. Rob, we've all seen you have days where you just grind out lift after lift and it looks like you could still go up for 2-3 more attempts. That's what I'm talking about when I say it would be cool to watch!

Rob Luyando
03-17-2012, 03:55 PM
Kara I'm much older now I dont know how much grinding I want to do anymore.... LOL! Like I said I will keep an open mind. Vincent and Gene are good friends of mine and I have a lot of respect for both of them. I'm all for having a good time but not going to say yay or nay till I hear how it will actually pan out.

C. Smith
03-17-2012, 06:16 PM
I handed over the reigns to her and her husband Craig for my shirt work. First thing they said was we are getting rid of boards. I had 2 shirted sessions with them before the meet. At the XPC meet, I lowered my opener to 705. Went out and touched with ease--same shirt, same bodyweight. Some of it was mental, but the groove of the shirt felt so much better going down. It is amazing when you dont burn up alot of energy trying to touch--the weight goes up alot easier. lol. Kara and Craig are continuing to work with me on technique and set up/ mobility issues.

^^ shirt bench guru imo.



Why can't we have a meet where reasonable numbers are chosen and we can all compete to see who is the best that day? I get the whole "I'm a powerlifter and I'm a control freak so no one's gonna tell me what weight to lift blah, blah, blah..." Strongman weights are chosen and the guys just lift them. Why can't powerlifting take a page from that book for a few contests a year where we don't look like douchebags that can't make the bar touch our chests or can't squat deep enough cuz the gear is too tight???????????????????????????????????????? Maybe I'm fucked up? Maybe it would be fun to watch guys actually lift weight instead of pray for the bar to be in the right groove with the sun and Jupiter's moons aligned properly in order to maybe touch their chest.


http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p169/Kiltedthrower/wub.gif


They do this with some of the events in Highland Games and the crowd loves it...but the guys choose where they want to open.

The general format for HG height events is like this:



Each competitor will be allowed three attempts at each height.

Each competitor may enter the event at any height in the competition.

A competitor may pass any height they choose, but each height attempted must be cleared before attempting the next height.

If a competitor has passed a height it is not considered a miss or a make and will not count for or against the competitor.

When a competitor has missed three attempts at one height then he will be eliminated from the competition.

So for our Weight over Bar, it might start at 12' and go up 1' until there is 3 competitors left.

12', 13', 14', 15', 16' (only three guys make this), Height is then decided and agreed upon by remaining competitors. Could be 16'3", 16'6", 17', etc....

So for benching that format could be used, and start the weight as low as the smallest bencher in the comp wants. Everyone can pass until they feel it's their time to come in.

Perhaps the money in HG is a factor (along with it being one of several events obv), but pretty much no one ever 'no heights' (bomb) the WOB.

Rob Luyando
03-17-2012, 07:26 PM
Craid I understand the concept but how tough is it to choose your warm ups to assure that you don't get warmed up to early?

vdizenzo
03-17-2012, 08:09 PM
Passing on attempts ruins the whole concept. There will be plenty of guys who think they'll be able to hit a heavy opener, just like at a meet. There are plenty of meets during the course of the year where guys can go for over 900 and 1,000. Also, no offense to anyone, but the majority of the Arnold crowd does not care what big name benchers compete there. They don't know who they are. They just want to see a spirited competition.

C. Smith
03-17-2012, 09:21 PM
Rob - it's not that tough at all. I know beforehand what attempt I can make 100% of the time, which in a format like that is essential, and I'm always coming in and getting that. I'm trying to win a competition, not set a PR. If I set a PR while doing that then it's just an extra bonus.

So say the attempts start at 650, and go 650, 700, 750, etc... you would have an idea of when to start warming up based on that. Nothing is perfect for ensuring you're getting the 7-10 minutes (or whatever the current research says is optimal), but I don't see it being any different that the current warm up for a meet.

Vinnie - I understand your point, and the fact that you're trying to avoid the bombs, but without passes you are limiting your field size and potential competitors. That's why I mentioned the incentives ($, swag, whatever) of actually winning or placing in the competition. Hell, make it so records don't count if that makes a difference. I think what you also can do is base your invites on who actually makes lifts in comps, or have qualifying comps with that as a criteria. If someone benched a WR in 1986, but has bombed every meet since then, they probably wouldn't get an invite.

vdizenzo
03-17-2012, 09:54 PM
Chris, I think most of us agreed records could not count in this format. It's a competition/exhibition, but not a meet. Limiting the field of competitors happens with any pro show. That's the point of it being a pro show. That being said, according to powerliftingwatch there have been close to 100 lifters from the 242 class and up who have hit 700 or more this past 12 months. That shows there is no shortage of guys who could at the very least open with 700. Of course there would have to be a different weight for the lightweights. This is all a work in progress in my head. Bouncing ideas around like this really helps.

This is by no means what is going to happen. These are my ramblings. I only spoke to Gene once when he voiced how he liked the idea of the last man standing. I just don't want there to be any confusion.

C. Smith
03-17-2012, 10:04 PM
CRAIG, I think most of us agreed records could not count in this format. It's a competition/exhibition, but not a meet. Limiting the field of competitors happens with any pro show. That's the point of it being a pro show. That being said, according to powerliftingwatch there have been 84 lifters from the 242 class and up who have hit 700 or more this past 12 months. That shows there is no shortage of guys who could at the very least open with 700. Of course there would have to be a different weight for the lightweights. This is all a work in progress in my head. Bouncing ideas around like this really helps.

This is by no means what is going to happen. These are my ramblings. I only spoke to Gene once when he voiced how he liked the idea of the last man standing. I just don't want there to be any confusion.

Understood. As someone who's been a professional strength athlete for a decade I was just sharing what's done, and what works, in other sports. Good luck with the concept though, I hope you guys can get something together.

Off Road
03-18-2012, 08:26 AM
They have a similar thing in team roping, the sport I competed in. Okay, it's not powerlifting, but it has some parallels. Everybody wants to rope a steer as fast as they can and make the record books; they have venues for that. But they aslo have 10 steer competitions and it's a big draw for the crowds. At rodeos everybody is gunning to go as fast as they can and it leads to a lot of missing. At the 10 steer competitions everybody is forced to slow it down a bit and the catches increase considerably. The audience loves the 10 steer competitions because they actually get to see their favorite pros do some "good" roping. Everybody understands that 10 steers and rodeos are two different animals and the winners of each have much respect in the roping world.

Tom Mutaffis
03-18-2012, 08:53 AM
In strongman there are 'rising bar' or 'last man standing' events, and in most cases they are pretty crowd-friendly. Generally the starting weight will be light and there will be moderate jumps - in some cases once you jump in you cannot skip a lift, and in other cases you can jump in anywhere and take up to three lifts but if you miss you are done (and you have to go as the bar rises so you cannot pick exact weights). Usually larger jumps are used until you have only a couple of competitors left and then there may be smaller jumps.

Jason198
03-18-2012, 03:40 PM
So the point is to get everyone to bomb except one guy, lol, just kidding, love the idea good luck to u guys...cant wait to see it, if it flys

RhodeHouse
03-18-2012, 03:43 PM
OK I have talked this over with Vincent and even talked with Gene about the possibilities. All I can do is keep an open mind and what ever is decided for the next big meet I will consider it. I say fuck all of you guys that can't bench over 850 lbs. I'm all for starting at 900 lbs and moving up from there. If I have to start at 700 lbs I'm going to have to do about 10 singles to hit a PR. I'm sure guys like Roadhouse have awesome cardio and stamina and can do 10 sets of compitition reps all ego aside. Some dude that benches 400ish doesn't impress me when he runs his mouth.

Like I told Gene I will listen to the meet options and decide if its worth my time or not. Becuase despite what some of you little people may think this old fucker still has a lot in the tank!

Wow dude. Sensitive? You're one of the biggest benchers of all time and you show that you have absolutely no self-esteem. I'm thankful that I have more life accomplishments that bring me joy and satisfaction that just lifting.

"Fuck all of you who can't bench 850..." That was great. I actually laughed out loud. And your further comments about my incredible conditioning... I just don't know if I'll be able to recover from that. What a blow to my fragile ego. I'll send you the bill for my therapist.

One of the biggest benchers in the world whose afraid to try this format doesn't impress me. So I guess we can agree that neither one of us are impressed with each other.

And life goes on...

Rob Luyando
03-18-2012, 07:08 PM
Rhoadhouse first off majority of my coments were in a joking matter so who is the sensitive one. I have no beef with you or anyone else for that matter. I know you are friends with Vincent so you can't be that bad of a guy. We all have the right to choose how we compete. I'm not afraid of any format I have competed in the reps contest on two occasions hich was verry similiar to the concept that Vincent came up with only doing mutliple reps instead of singles. Even though I won a couple of grand competing its not how I would choose to compete. And with the rep contest the weight started light and moved up. There were still bombouts so not so sure that is the answer either. I can adapt to any conditions as I have done so over the years competing all over this country and world. I'm not here to impress you or anyone else I do this sport because of my passion for it. It is just a one of my hobbies.


Chris Smith thanks for taking the time to explain yourself. I like the sound of that format and style.

But like I said I will keep an open to the meets options and if I like it I may consider if. I just hope if I do I can go head to head with Rhoadhouse and when its over Vincent can by my beers!

RhodeHouse
03-18-2012, 09:49 PM
Don't trust Vincent's judgement on picking friends. I can see your point. I really can. I'm not a World Record holder. Chances are, I'll never bench 800lbs. Hell, my goal is 700. So for me, watching the crazy numbers put up is surreal, in a way. I can't fathom it. Just like everyone outside of our sport. I love powerlifting, but it's getting embarassing. We (multi-ply) lost the Arnold to the USAPL! It wasn't all Kieran Kidder. Watching 80% of the "best" benchers n the world bomb doesn't make for a fan base. When you talk about the Arnold, powerlifters will go. But, there are way more "fitness-type_ people there than us powerlifters. Those are the people who don't understand how ridiculously hard it is to use gear.

That being said, if multi-ply lifting and benching wants the Arnold back, we have to make the event watchable to Johnny Average who has no clue what gear is. It's not a perfect idea, but the idea of 10-12 guys benching 700+ lbs is amazing to people outside of our circle. And, with guys like you, Vincent, our training partner TT - that's 3 guys who can hit 700, 800+ lb benches. It creates a "show" for the audience. It doesn't have to replace true powerlifting, but 2-3 times a year at big venues, It might actually get people to stop and watch.

It's not a powerlifting meet, it's a bench press competition.

Off my soap box... Obviously, you have the right to compete how you choose. Something like this could make powerlifting watchable. On top of that, it would only add to some of you huge benchers' resumes.

Again, don't trust Vincent's choice in friends. He only keeps me around because I give him great lift-offs.

Chris Smith
03-19-2012, 12:29 AM
Just for info, C. Smith is Craig--Kara's husband. My name is all the way spelled out for ya. Craig likes being difficult like that. lol. He should probably change it to his real name -- Smashius !!!

Rob Luyando
03-19-2012, 08:48 AM
Just for info, C. Smith is Craig--Kara's husband. My name is all the way spelled out for ya. Craig likes being difficult like that. lol. He should probably change it to his real name -- Smashius !!!

Yes I know Smitty I meat to Say Craig in my post.... Was trying to do more then one thing at a time.

Rob Luyando
03-19-2012, 08:52 AM
Rhoadhouse,

We (multy ply) didn't loose the Arnold. The last year it was held on the State at the Arnold the majority of the lifters got lifts in. KK lost the Arnold. Talk to people that know Mr. Lorimer and they will tell you that KK's attitude and not making things right with the lifters and being to demanding is what got the WPO ousted from the Arnold. That is fact!

Anyway no sense in beating a dead horse into the ground.

vdizenzo
03-19-2012, 09:36 AM
OK, let's solely blame KK for losing the Arnold. Regardless of that, why do we think multiply powerlifting is invited back to the Arnold as of right now, but bench only is not?

BloodandThunder
03-19-2012, 09:49 AM
OK, let's solely blame KK for losing the Arnold. Regardless of that, why do we think multiply powerlifting is invited back to the Arnold as of right now, but bench only is not?

The Titan Pro Bench Meet is on Sunday, and the issue of bombs was brought up repeatedly the past two previous years. Half as many bombs this year as compared to last, and 1/3 as many as two years ago. This is closed back, single ply, which shouldn't be too ridiculous to touch in.

IF the multiply meet goes over well, which it should especially if it's on the big stage, I think if it offered a different setup than a standard bench meet like the Titan one, someone like Gene or the XPC could get it in easily.

Rob Luyando
03-19-2012, 04:08 PM
[QUOTE=vdizenzo;2548224]OK, let's solely blame KK for losing the Arnold. Regardless of that, why do we think multiply powerlifting is invited back to the Arnold as of right now, but bench only is not?[/QUOTE

Just did! 95% of the blame remains in KK's hands. The other 5% is that Powerlifters aren't pretty like all the figure sports that are put on the main stage.

I have competed on the main stage two years in a row. Fun times. If it makes it back great if not I will still have fun at the Arnold. Working the MHP booth with sexy fit women and MHP Athletes. Lets see Michelle Wood, Kimberly Sheppard or Vincent Dizenzo and Rhoadhouse. That my friends is a no brainer.

vdizenzo
03-19-2012, 06:20 PM
Stay tuned, I feel a challenge coming on.

Slothish
03-20-2012, 07:56 AM
I think the word getting pimp slapped over and over is "buffoon", I don't like being the spelling police but come on guys, try a little bit harder.

The idea for the Last Man Standing has some real merit, I am truly sick of watching people bomb out (although a bunch of people bombing out is responsible for my only 1st place Open finish) trying to move opening weights that they've never even hit in training. I don't think it hurts the sport to add a little intrigue and excitement to an event.

RhodeHouse
03-20-2012, 11:13 AM
I think the word getting pimp slapped over and over is "buffoon", I don't like being the spelling police but come on guys, try a little bit harder.

The idea for the Last Man Standing has some real merit, I am truly sick of watching people bomb out (although a bunch of people bombing out is responsible for my only 1st place Open finish) trying to move opening weights that they've never even hit in training. I don't think it hurts the sport to add a little intrigue and excitement to an event.

Well, if you don't like being the spelling police, don't be that dickhead, then. That's the same as saying, 'Not to be a jerk, but..."

RhodeHouse
03-20-2012, 11:15 AM
Rob, I look damn good in boy shorts. Plus, after 2 or 3 fake titted, spray tanned broads, they all start too look the same. A good view, but anyone can be in shape like that. Not everyone can be in shape at 300lbs, as you well know.

Besides, people go to the circus to see the elephants, not the mice.

Slothish
03-20-2012, 07:05 PM
Rhodes,

Redirect your anger at your English teacher not at me, I'm merely trying to save people from a lifetime of unintentionally ironic spelling errors. Not to be a jerk but ...

Slothish
03-20-2012, 07:13 PM
hmmm, my last post seemed a bit douche-like, all I was saying initially is that I liked the proposed format, and that when calling folks names we should have the common courtesy to spell the insults correctly, other than that feel free to blast away, I will never bench 900 lbs (or 650 for that matter) my squat sucks, my deadlift is slightly better (or worse depending on who you are) and after all the running I did in the Army my knees are just trashed enough to know that neither of those lifts will go much higher. But at 44 I set PR's, I'm a big fan of watching and competing in meets even when I get crushed by the competition. So as a fan, not a competitor, I would love to see a meet where people had to hit their opener to advance.

RhodeHouse
03-24-2012, 11:08 AM
hmmm, my last post seemed a bit douche-like, all I was saying initially is that I liked the proposed format, and that when calling folks names we should have the common courtesy to spell the insults correctly, other than that feel free to blast away, I will never bench 900 lbs (or 650 for that matter) my squat sucks, my deadlift is slightly better (or worse depending on who you are) and after all the running I did in the Army my knees are just trashed enough to know that neither of those lifts will go much higher. But at 44 I set PR's, I'm a big fan of watching and competing in meets even when I get crushed by the competition. So as a fan, not a competitor, I would love to see a meet where people had to hit their opener to advance.

My English teacher was fantastic. He taught me how to write and express myself on paper. I still contact him. Even after 20 years, I remember what he taught me. I have no reason to redirect my anger at my English teacher. He didn't nitpick and thread post on a powerlifting forum. You did. My "anger' was not misplaced at all.

As for correct spelling, I don't worry too much about the proper spelling of insults. For instance, if I want to say "FUKK", that's just fine. I'll respell words to make them fit into my language, much like Snoop Dogg did with "For shizzel my nizzel" , or whatever it is he says.

Thank you for your service, though. That's one regret I do have. My grandfather served in the Pacific in the Army Air Corps and my dad was a Marine in Vietnam. My brother-in-law serves in the Air Guard and will be redeploying to that shit hole, Afghanistan, in July.